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Author Topic: The Console Wars  (Read 40268 times)

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Offline PatMan33

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Re: The Console Wars - Who will win?
« Reply #30 on: July 19, 2007, 01:42:20 pm »
Wait... Pilot, did you switch teams on me?

I thought you used to fight against me under the banner of the 360... of course, I might have gotten you mixed up with someone else, that happens a lot with me. :-\



Ah well, carry on.


**EDIT**
Looks like I will comment on the PC thing. I think the PC market is it's own special market and somewhat independent from the mainstream Console market.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2007, 01:46:23 pm by PatMan33 »

Offline DMB

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Re: The Console Wars - Who will win?
« Reply #31 on: July 19, 2007, 01:46:23 pm »
Pilot, maybe I'm wrong. I wouldn't know about the PS3 seeing as I don't own one. Just be aware that from what you see in the trailers of the games they release are not in-game footage. I don't really see what's so special about blue-ray IMO. Graphics and screen is more hi-def are somewhat a little bit better from what I understand? I lost all intrest in online anymore. All I get is just a bunch of screamers who complain about hacks and how they think others are cheating.

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Offline Piloteer

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Re: The Console Wars - Who will win?
« Reply #32 on: July 19, 2007, 02:21:53 pm »
Hehe...it's fun being the only person actively trying to justify the PS3. Anyone want to join me? ;D

Oh, and maybe you missed the memo, but the Live Arcade isn't only for smaller casual games anymore either.  Check out Worms and Bomberman, which are just as big as any of those games which are normally released, or the upcomming War World and Wing Commander.

I would hardly compare EA's reworking of Wing Commander with Warhawk. Worms and Bomberman don't come close to the scale of SOCOM: Confrontation. That's not to say that Bomberman or Worms are bad games---sometimes it's these smaller games which are the most fun---but SOCOM and Warhawk are on the scale of full retail games; Bomberman, Wing Commander, etc. are not.

Wait... Pilot, did you switch teams on me?

Hmm...not me. I said that the new Banjo game is a bit of a relief to hear about, but you swore it was going to suck. :D

I don't really see what's so special about blue-ray IMO.

Maybe I'll be completely wrong, but I think Blu-ray will be a necessity in a few years. Mass Effect barely fits on a single DVD, and Blue Dragon spans three. This is less than two years into the 360's lifespan. Again, maybe I'll be wrong, but I think Blu-ray will become vitally important as games get larger in the coming years.

Offline tomasgaquino

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Re: The Console Wars - Who will win?
« Reply #33 on: July 19, 2007, 05:48:19 pm »
Quote
Released in the japanese market in dezember, Wii sold 3.014.828 consoles, against 1.010.000 PS3 consoles, also released in the end of 2006

That's some news I could get from the local online newspaper
http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/informatica/ult124u313307.shtml It's on portuguese though.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2007, 05:51:15 pm by tomasgaquino »

Offline WinterSnowblind

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Re: The Console Wars - Who will win?
« Reply #34 on: July 20, 2007, 12:56:02 am »
Okay, so what's the difference between downloading those games, and just buying them?  Call me old fashioned, but I prefer my games on discs.  As for blu-ray over DVD, I stand by what I said before.  I'm pretty sure blu-ray will replace DVD eventually, but I don't see it being a problem anytime soon.  Yes, there are some RPG's like Blue Dragon that already use up to three, but have you played that game?  It's more FMV crazy that Final Fantasy, and I don't really see the problem with having to change discs.  We've been doing that since the PSOne days, it's not that big a deal.

Sooner or later blu-ray is going to become obsolete too, either because of HVD or something else.  I don't particular care to switch formats every time a games company tells me to.  You can argue that they can make games look better because of that, but graphics shouldn't be that important, and even then, I'm yet to see a single PS3 game that looks better than what we already have on the 360.  Even Killzone 2 doesn't look any better than Halo 3, and that's Sony pouring as much money and time as they possibly can, into having it live up to that trailer.

Offline /lurk

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Re: The Console Wars - Who will win?
« Reply #35 on: July 20, 2007, 07:24:52 am »
Back in my day, you could fit all of Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, The Adventure of Link and the original Legend of Zelda on to a single Gamecube disk, which you could then get for free. There's no reason for console games to need more than one disk, particularly when the disks are HDDVD sized. FMV isn't an escuse for needing more than one disk when you can fit a feature-length film and hourse of extras on to a regular DVD.

Also I've never heard of SOCOM or Warhawk. Pilot, what are you on about and how can they be bigger than Worms and Bomberman?
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Offline Piloteer

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Re: The Console Wars - Who will win?
« Reply #36 on: July 20, 2007, 11:18:43 am »
Okay, so what's the difference between downloading those games, and just buying them?  Call me old fashioned, but I prefer my games on discs.  As for blu-ray over DVD, I stand by what I said before.  I'm pretty sure blu-ray will replace DVD eventually, but I don't see it being a problem anytime soon.  Yes, there are some RPG's like Blue Dragon that already use up to three, but have you played that game?  It's more FMV crazy that Final Fantasy, and I don't really see the problem with having to change discs.  We've been doing that since the PSOne days, it's not that big a deal.

Sooner or later blu-ray is going to become obsolete too, either because of HVD or something else. 

Umm...I'm not sure why that makes you old-fashioned, but whatever...

Changing discs may not bother you, and it may not be a huge deal in a very linear RPG. But if you were to try to put an open-world adventure game onto three discs, you'd get pretty annoyed with changing discs every time you change locations.

And likewise, smaller disc sizes limit what developers are willing to put in a game. If their game pours a bit over the 8GB limit of a DVD, they're going to remove some content to make it fit---you can count on that. Then there are games like Metal Gear Solid 4 and Final Fantasy XIII---I don't want to even guess how much space those games take up, and you can bet those two games would take up more than a few DVDs.

And Blu-ray will not be obsolete for many many years. By the time Blu-ray is obsolete, PS3 will be obsolete, so I really don't understand your point on that one.

Even Killzone 2 doesn't look any better than Halo 3, and that's Sony pouring as much money and time as they possibly can, into having it live up to that trailer.

I can understand that you like the 360 and don't perticularily like the PS3; I'm fine with that. But that is a very blind and bias statement, and one that certainly proves that you are not making a well-thought or fair argument.

Also I've never heard of SOCOM or Warhawk. Pilot, what are you on about and how can they be bigger than Worms and Bomberman?

Here and here.

Both games are coming on Blu-ray disc and are downloadable directly to you HDD. As you can see, these are more on the level of full retail games rather than simple little puzzle games.

Offline /lurk

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Re: The Console Wars - Who will win?
« Reply #37 on: July 20, 2007, 12:02:30 pm »
Simple little puzzle games are the ones that sell, though. SOCOM and Warhawk are high-end games designed to appeal to the clique market, which isn't big enough to provide big moneys - big moneys being, after all, what the industry is designed to harvest.

About disk-changing: If I am led to believe that the main culprit for bloated data sizes are those FMV sequences that everyone mashes the buttons to skip, an open-world adventure shouldn't take more than one disk, since, by nature of being an open-world adventure game, it shouldn't have any FMVs.

With PS3 in particular, we're hitting diminishing returns on technology. You need an expensive blu-ray disk to fit a game that would have gone on a cheap CD-ROM with space to spare if it were only made a few years earlier to the graphical standards of the time. It costs a lot and doesn't make the game a better game - only good developers can do that. Not jamming more games into a single, overstuffed genre couldn't hurt either, I suppose.
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Offline WinterSnowblind

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Re: The Console Wars - Who will win?
« Reply #38 on: July 20, 2007, 02:06:01 pm »
Even Killzone 2 doesn't look any better than Halo 3, and that's Sony pouring as much money and time as they possibly can, into having it live up to that trailer.

I can understand that you like the 360 and don't perticularily like the PS3; I'm fine with that. But that is a very blind and bias statement, and one that certainly proves that you are not making a well-thought or fair argument.
[/quote]

I meant graphics wise.  A lot of people have been going on about how amazing the graphics in Killzone 2 look.  My point was, it doesn't look all that great.  If the PS3 is supposedly this vastly superior machine, none of its games are showing it, and Killzone is a game that Sony have been pouring a lot of money into to try and match up to that first trailer they showed.

But if you want to talk about gameplay over graphics, then the first Killzone had wonky controls, a bad plot and was just generally a bad game.  I'm sure anyone who played it can back me up there, it wasn't a good game, and any faith in the second game seems to be coming from PS3 fanboys alone.

I have no personal biased against the PS3.  Like I said before, if it had games I wanted to play, I would buy one.  The same goes for the Wii at the moment actually, I'm not going to buy it for the one game I'd actually enjoy for it.

Quote from: Piloteer
And Blu-ray will not be obsolete for many many years. By the time Blu-ray is obsolete, PS3 will be obsolete, so I really don't understand your point on that one.

Blu-ray is almost already obsolete, look at things like HVD, which can store 160x the amount of a blu-ray disc.  What would happen if Microsoft or Nintendo decided to release a new console in five-six years time using much better technology?  Somehow, I don't see Sony sticking with their 10+ lifespan plan for the PS3.

And like Lurk has pointed out, I'm yet to see a single game that really takes up that amount of space.  If we can fit games like Oblivion and GTA IV on a single DVD, I see no need to worry, and I don't see that changing anytime in the foreseeable future.  Yes games like MGS4 and FF13 are boasting ridiculous sizes, but to me that sounds like nothing but Sony hype..  :-\  So far the only games I've seen that take up a decent amount of space on those blu-ray discs are games that are filled with audio and video.  And really, I don't need to be able to view full Dracula episodes from the 1950's in a game.

I think part of the reason why the Wii has been so successful is because they realised in advance, just how silly all of this is, and have gone back to what games should have always been about.  The gameplay.

Offline DMB

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Re: The Console Wars - Who will win?
« Reply #39 on: July 20, 2007, 02:18:38 pm »
I agree. Graphics aren't everything. I'm not sure I want to see the sweat drip off any character in detail. I'm not really comfortable with downloading either, especially not with the defects the consoles have this early. Anything could happen on it, like somehow erasing a  game off your memory, but that's not a risk I'm willing to take. Also it's very useful to trade the games in as disks at Gamestop or sell them on eBay. Also to back up my statements: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R98qC0fd_1w BLAMO!
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Offline Piloteer

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Re: The Console Wars - Who will win?
« Reply #40 on: July 20, 2007, 03:02:19 pm »
Quote from: Piloteer
And Blu-ray will not be obsolete for many many years. By the time Blu-ray is obsolete, PS3 will be obsolete, so I really don't understand your point on that one.

Blu-ray is almost already obsolete, look at things like HVD, which can store 160x the amount of a blu-ray disc.  What would happen if Microsoft or Nintendo decided to release a new console in five-six years time using much better technology?  Somehow, I don't see Sony sticking with their 10+ lifespan plan for the PS3.

And like Lurk has pointed out, I'm yet to see a single game that really takes up that amount of space.  If we can fit games like Oblivion and GTA IV on a single DVD, I see no need to worry, and I don't see that changing anytime in the foreseeable future.  Yes games like MGS4 and FF13 are boasting ridiculous sizes, but to me that sounds like nothing but Sony hype..  :-\  So far the only games I've seen that take up a decent amount of space on those blu-ray discs are games that are filled with audio and video.  And really, I don't need to be able to view full Dracula episodes from the 1950's in a game.

Blu-ray is not obsolete.

HVD's like those that you speak of may be arriving, but they are not at all commonplace. Blu-ray isn't quite commonplace yet either, but you can bet that these HVD's will replace Blu-ray only after many many years.

People have been downloading music from the internet for many years now, yet the majority of music sales are still sold on CD-ROM's. HVD's may allow users to download films, but there is still a tremendous demand for a hard-copy discs. If the majority of music is still purchased on CD-ROM's this many years after the introduction of programs such as Napster and iTunes, then it will be a very long time before movies, much less games, are purchased via download.

As for the comment on MGS4 and FFXIII: the words of praise for Blu-ray is coming from the developers at Konami and Square-Enix, not Sony. Take that as you will.

Oh, and Killzone 2 owns your ass. :P

Offline shock223

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Re: The Console Wars - Who will win?
« Reply #41 on: July 20, 2007, 07:58:46 pm »
i find it funny how all the PS2 people that were moaning like drunk zombies about how grapics don't equal better gameplay are now all saying "OMG the PS3 is better cuz it makes makes better eye candy than the 360!?!?"

ironic

Offline Daxx

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Re: The Console Wars - Who will win?
« Reply #42 on: July 21, 2007, 04:10:40 am »
Piloteer, it's hilarious how much of a PS3 fanboy you are.

Offline Bastardman

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Re: The Console Wars - Who will win?
« Reply #43 on: July 21, 2007, 06:48:11 am »
I think it balances out nicely with how much of a Nintendo fanboy nearly everyone else on the forums is.

Offline /lurk

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Re: The Console Wars - Who will win?
« Reply #44 on: July 21, 2007, 07:18:40 am »
And everyone in Japan, apparently.

Actually, I retract my some of my statements about games being unnecessarily large, because I just remembered that Shenmue and Shenmue 2 came on four disks apiece on the Dreamcast, and didn't have any FMV that I can remember. Still, Dreamcast disks didn't have quite as much capacity as modern ones.

So: it's actually okay to have a really huge game, as long as it's good and not just bloated up with FMV.
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