Poll

Do u dislike the U.S president

yes
no
dont care
dont care i dont live there

Author Topic: Your thoughts on the government, politics, and ect  (Read 11771 times)

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Offline Hammerman58

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Your thoughts on the government, politics, and ect
« on: April 22, 2007, 05:23:54 pm »
You know I just want to complain about Bush. I think he is a moron.

Your thoughts?
« Last Edit: April 24, 2007, 02:06:28 pm by killerboy85 »


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Offline PatMan33

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2007, 05:27:58 pm »
I like President Bush.

While I disagree with his Iraq War policy and a few terms in the Patriot Act, I like his stance on Immigration and Gun Control and he's got the right idea for abortion. Plus, even though he's stubborn as hell, I admire his resolve when it comes to his beliefs and all in all I think he's a pretty nice guy.

Offline Inkling

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2007, 05:45:14 pm »
As far as Bush being a moron, he did graduate from Yale.
Probably not a Goat, either.


Offline Gorman Conall

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2007, 06:01:59 pm »
I like bush

Offline HanianKnight

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2007, 06:15:03 pm »
I absolutely hate the man with a passion. The only good thing about him is that he's slightly more polite than the raving lunatics that control his supporters. I could go on and on about why I hate hikm, but then again this whole topic is going to decend into a flame war very quickly and I don't want to be a part of it.

So yes, I dislike the president, although I am very fond of Stephen Colbert if thats any consellation(SP?)
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Offline Hammerman58

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2007, 06:17:50 pm »
Well i think he is with certain policies.
The no child left behind act is still not working and the U.S is falling behind other countries.
The Iraqi war is about only one thing finishing what the first bush started and diddnt finish.
He shouldnt have been president. The people diddnt want him if you can remember Al Gore got the most votes. In todays age we dont need the electoral college. Its who the people want should be president. Also he graduated with a C.
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Offline Krakow Sam

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2007, 06:35:12 pm »
As far as Bush being a moron, he did graduate from Yale.
His daddy was very very rich.
Sam is basically right, he's just cranky.

Offline Grazony

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2007, 06:36:29 pm »
I don't hate him..........much.
>.>
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You'll never know why.
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Offline SBD

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2007, 06:49:56 pm »
Although I don't actually live there, I don't really like any of his policies, and he shouldn't have been president. Having said that, it must be tough trying to please everyone and I really wouldn't want to be in his position. And I'm sure he's a nice guy, and he has a sense of humour; when Bono was on Enough Rope, he said that when he visited Bush and they went through a town and the people waved, Bush turned to Bono and said "a few months ago they were waving at me with one finger."

Offline Inkling

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2007, 06:53:21 pm »
It's true that his Dad's money did help, but he's more intelligent than his adopted Texan accent makes him appear.
And the electoral college is still needed if the US is to be a republic and not turn to complete democracy, which the founding fathers feared would lead to mob rule.  But that's a different issue.
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Offline SBD

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2007, 07:00:00 pm »
What exactly is the Electoral College?

Offline Hammerman58

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2007, 07:18:55 pm »
Its the number of votes each state gets. Its based on the number of representives and senators each state has. Who ever wins the state gets the votes. They win by popular votes. It is possible to win a election without getting the most vote. All u need to do is win the states with the most electoral votes.






In the 2000 election pres Douche excuse me pres bush got the most electoral votes so he won. Al Gore diddnt get enough electoral votes but more people voted for him.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2007, 08:07:01 pm by killerboy85 »
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Offline PatMan33

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2007, 07:21:58 pm »
Here's the simple version.

Each state is given a certain number of Presidential Electors that is determined by population. The people vote and then these Electors cast their votes for whoever the people vote for. There are 538 Electors throughout the country and whoever gets the majority of these votes is the winner.

That is why the Popular Vote does not always dictate the winner.



Here's the complex answer: Wikipedia Complex Answer.




I'm not changing this because Killerboy can't write up anything without horribly biasing it.

Offline SBD

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2007, 07:39:04 pm »
I like the Australian system better. Firstly, by law everyone over the age of 18 must vote, and you must have an absolute majority to win.

Offline Malt

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2007, 07:51:15 pm »
No, nobody does. Where did you get such an idea?
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Offline Inkling

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2007, 07:53:40 pm »
I don't like that idea, SBD.  If people are completely uninformed or uninterested about politics, then I don't want them to vote.  It sucks to have reasoned votes cancelled out by the little old lady who votes for the guy with the nicest smile.
Probably not a Goat, either.


Offline Hammerman58

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2007, 07:57:59 pm »
How is that bias patman that was a simple explanation. Did it make u feel like a big man to completly restate what i said?
« Last Edit: April 22, 2007, 08:00:41 pm by killerboy85 »
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Offline 762

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2007, 08:02:30 pm »
...In the 2000 election pres Douche excuse me pres bush...

How is that bias...

Um... Do you understand what biased means?

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Offline PatMan33

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2007, 08:03:50 pm »
Quote from: Dictionary.com
Bias: a particular tendency or inclination, esp. one that prevents unprejudiced consideration of a question; prejudice.

In the 2000 election pres Douche excuse me pres bush got the most electoral votes so he won. Al Gore diddnt get enough electoral votes but more people voted for him.


Wanna try again?



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Offline Hammerman58

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2007, 08:04:46 pm »
My explanation wasnt baised i gave the reason. Then i added my opinion


Maybe that helps you i moved my opinion from my explanation.


BTW i know what biased is.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2007, 08:17:24 pm by killerboy85 »
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Offline Devoid

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2007, 08:17:31 pm »
I don't care for him, but it didn't start that way. He's done too many bad things to make me like him in the slightest. The Iraq war is a colossal waste of time, money, and human life. His administration uses fear in every way it can when election time rolls around. Besides those major issues I take with him, there's some minor ones, and the fact that he pretty much does everything his party wants (and they seem to agree with everything he wants) doesn't really rub me the right way, especially because I'm not a Republican.

Offline SBD

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2007, 08:23:33 pm »
Quote
I don't like that idea, SBD.  If people are completely uninformed or uninterested about politics, then I don't want them to vote.  It sucks to have reasoned votes cancelled out by the little old lady who votes for the guy with the nicest smile.

Well it's pretty much impossible to be completely uninformed. In an age of mass media, the pollies are going to be flaunting their policies at every oppertunity, so with very little effort you can get an idea of what the guy is about, and who you would want running the country. Secondly, just because you put pen to paper in a secret ballot, doesn't mean you have to vote for anyone.  ;)

Offline Luminar

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2007, 08:23:47 pm »
He's a clown. As it is the president is little more than just the country's representative, so why pick such an embarrasing one?

Offline PatMan33

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2007, 08:24:44 pm »
That is true...


Most people don't think about that fact that the President is the chief citizen.

Offline Cobra

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2007, 08:28:39 pm »
Actually technically you don't have to vote in Australia all you have to do show up get your name ticked off then when they give you the ballot paper if you really want to you can just write in big letters how you think the leaders of the country have an unhealthy liking for barn yard animals (In so many words) and place that in the ballot box. Heck you can just take the blank ballot and place that in as well. This is known as Donkey Vote. Still the Majority rule to decide the winner is very effective way if you ask me.

Offline Devoid

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2007, 08:29:11 pm »
Not at all! Presidents SHOULD be akin to a chief citizen, but over time they gained a significant amount of power, and now more than ever, Bush has made a lot of extremely influential decisions on his own. I think above everything else he does, this annoys me the most. He has a complete disregard for the wishes of Congress. If he disagrees with it, it gets vetoed. Of course, that's only happening recently, since when Reps had a majority he never had to bother. They shot everything down for him, and since he has a "What the party wants, the party gets" mindset, anything congress pushed through, he signed.

Offline PatMan33

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2007, 08:44:25 pm »
Sounds kind of like a... lame duck.

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Offline syphonbyte

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2007, 01:10:37 am »
I don't really like or dislike Bush. I like some of the things he's done (like allowing the assault weapons ban to expire, angering countless people and cutting taxes) but I also dislike a lot of the things he's done (like pushing for a constitutional ban on gay marriage, not legalizing howitzers for civilian use, and raising taxes). I'd rate him higher than a lot of other US politicians, though.

Offline p-luke

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2007, 03:15:21 am »
I dislike him.

I do not hate him.

'Nuff said.

Offline Krakow Sam

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #29 on: April 23, 2007, 03:50:58 am »
I don't like that idea, SBD.  If people are completely uninformed or uninterested about politics, then I don't want them to vote.  It sucks to have reasoned votes cancelled out by the little old lady who votes for the guy with the nicest smile.

The problem is that the little old ladies *always* vote anyway. People who can reason out votes, like me, can sometimes have no interest.
Besides, the compuslory voting system usually comes with the option of not voting for anyone on the list (you just have to turn up and tick the box that says "None of the above").
It was little old ladies who got Bush into power, in the main.
Sam is basically right, he's just cranky.

Offline Uroboros

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #30 on: April 23, 2007, 09:35:12 am »
Quote
I don't like that idea, SBD.  If people are completely uninformed or uninterested about politics, then I don't want them to vote.  It sucks to have reasoned votes cancelled out by the little old lady who votes for the guy with the nicest smile.

Well it's pretty much impossible to be completely uninformed. In an age of mass media, the pollies are going to be flaunting their policies at every oppertunity, so with very little effort you can get an idea of what the guy is about, and who you would want running the country. Secondly, just because you put pen to paper in a secret ballot, doesn't mean you have to vote for anyone.  ;)
To rephrase a little, sure, its easy to be informed, but its not easy to accurately weigh up the information. There is so much spin in politics its nigh-on impossible to get a strong grip on it, unless you've been following it for a time. Even if you could weigh up the immediate runners, nothing speaks louder than action, and if you havent followed the antics of each candidate/group/etc, you're missing out on some of that vital accurate-to-reality info. Im not sure if anyone has noticed (lolz) but politicians and presidents always seem to be most interested in us when its voting time. Wonder why.

Opinions should be formed well before the voting periods, and the promises made before you tick the box taken with more than just a pinch of salt. To be my usual semi-paranoid self : Damned if you do, damned if you dont. Nobody can read the future, and thats the only way to make a completely wise decision. With all this said, i've lost track of politics, so I wont vote until I catch up on it.

Offline Bona Fide Supraman

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #31 on: April 23, 2007, 10:03:39 am »
Pretty much everyone in England thinks he's a complete idiot

How can you argue with these? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EvNJWM_NDg
« Last Edit: April 23, 2007, 12:26:44 pm by Bona Fide Supraman »
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Offline Kcronos

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #32 on: April 23, 2007, 12:02:35 pm »
I don't really hate Bush.  He is just an incompetant monkey that has been given the presedency.  I blame all the mistakes he made on his ignorance and stupidity.


Now Cheney and his cronies, thats a different story...
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Offline Hammerman58

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #33 on: April 23, 2007, 12:41:52 pm »
He doesnt know how to handle things. He thinks the iraq war is helping america and the world. Its not its making alot of people hate us. The only good thing is we got a wacko out of power yet we have one. Also I dont like how he wants to give 12 million illegal immagrints amnysty. I think if they want to come to the U.S they should do it the legal way. I know there doing jobs that people wont do but still there taking jobs.
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Offline Kcronos

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #34 on: April 23, 2007, 12:58:13 pm »
Would you feel angry at a dumb dog who accidently pushed the big red button on a nuclear control panel?


I'm more angry at the people who voted him into the nuclear control room in the first place...
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Offline Hammerman58

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #35 on: April 23, 2007, 01:11:14 pm »
I know what were people thinking when he ran for re election. This is one of Americas top 100 blunders re electing him.
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Offline Kcronos

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #36 on: April 23, 2007, 01:14:47 pm »
Yeah.  They let the dog into the viral containment center after he had blown up half the world!
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Offline Hammerman58

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #37 on: April 23, 2007, 01:17:23 pm »
Hes the worst american president.
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Offline Kcronos

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #38 on: April 23, 2007, 01:18:35 pm »
The one you should blame is Dick Cheney.  If you start raising people's hatred about Bush, someone may assasinate him.  Then Dick would be in charge *Shudders
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Offline Hammerman58

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #39 on: April 23, 2007, 01:20:43 pm »
He make me mad just as much as bush. Him and Haliburton.
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Offline Inkling

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #40 on: April 23, 2007, 01:23:58 pm »
I think he is a moron.
Pretty much everyone in England thinks he's a complete idiot
He is just an incompetant monkey...
I know that his style of speaking makes him seem less than intelligent at times, but just because you disagree with his policies and ideology doesn't make him stupid.  And I assume none of you have gotten tongue tied while giving a public presentation.  (Granted, I also assume none of you are heads of state... Be quiet, I'm trying to make a point, dammit!)  In any debate, continually calling your opponent an idiot just lowers the level of discussion.  
I was also going to make a comment about 14 year olds declaring an accomplished politician to be an idiot, but insulting authority is part of being a teenager.

And for the record, killerboy, our worst president was Harding.  He makes Nixon look like a boy scout and Clinton look like a monk.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_G._Harding

I'm going to go back to trying to avoid politics threads now, so you can return to your Bush bashing.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2007, 01:45:00 pm by Inkling »
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Offline Kcronos

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #41 on: April 23, 2007, 01:25:33 pm »
Quote
If we don't succeed, we run the risk of faliure

That doesn't seem like a tongue tied ness to me...
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Offline HanianKnight

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #42 on: April 23, 2007, 01:25:46 pm »
*bashes Bush*

Wow, that sounded dirtier than I thought it would.

and I don't care about him being tounge-tied. Its the stuff he says without messing up that makes me the angriest.
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Offline Hammerman58

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #43 on: April 23, 2007, 01:27:42 pm »
Hold on the worst thing that clinton did was get a few Bjs from a intern other then that he was pretty good.


Also i maybe 14 but i always get a 4.0 and i am in CPI wich is current politcal issues. This is all we discuss.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2007, 01:29:41 pm by killerboy85 »
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Offline Kcronos

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #44 on: April 23, 2007, 01:28:30 pm »
Being unfaithful has nothing to do with Foreign Policy..
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Offline Hammerman58

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #45 on: April 23, 2007, 01:31:02 pm »
The only thing clinton screwed up on was getting caught. A lot of presidents are rumored to have been unfaithful.
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Offline Kcronos

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #46 on: April 23, 2007, 01:31:37 pm »
Who cares?
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Offline PatMan33

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #47 on: April 23, 2007, 01:37:35 pm »
Um... is there going to be any intelligent discussion in this topic at all or is it just a bastion for Bush haters?

If it's only going to be a topic to flame President Bush and make rude and offensive remarks the topic is going to be closed. Why don't you try to have some smart discussion and debate your opinions with others.

I'm not saying that anything about your opinions is wrong, but I am saying that your presentation is hardly acceptable and I am sure you don't want your topic to be removed since it is such a pertinent subject.

Offline Hammerman58

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #48 on: April 23, 2007, 02:16:49 pm »
Anyone else think the dems are doing a good job. So far i like it that they have majority. Im glad that they are working harder on a plan to remove american forces out of  Iraq.
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Offline sgore

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #49 on: April 23, 2007, 02:37:24 pm »
Professionally I'm not a fan of Bush. I don't like his stances on many civil rights issues, including issues of freedom of speech (for instance his stances on Flag Burning) Right to Privacy, habeas corpus for millitary prisoners, issues relating to homosexuals (Bans on Marrage and millitary service) along with other issues. I also disagree with His stance on global warming, and his overall compatancy as a leader. Personally I don't know the guy. He seems nice enough I suppose, but not suitable for president in my opinion.
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Offline Dartje

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #50 on: April 23, 2007, 03:14:59 pm »
crap! voted wrong...

change mine to yes please!

Offline Hammerman58

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #51 on: April 23, 2007, 03:33:44 pm »
Personaly im am very pleased with the govenators stance on global warming
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Offline /lurk

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #52 on: April 23, 2007, 03:44:09 pm »
Personaly im am very pleased with the govenators stance on global warming


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Offline Legodragonxp

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #53 on: April 23, 2007, 05:20:54 pm »
I LOVE ALL AMREICAN PRESIDENTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Think about it. We all need to laugh, and what better fodder for comedians is there on this planet than a US President?

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Offline Uroboros

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #54 on: April 23, 2007, 08:45:03 pm »
Um... is there going to be any intelligent discussion in this topic at all or is it just a bastion for Bush haters?
Maybe it would help if more Bush lovers chipped in, then?

Offline Gorman Conall

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #55 on: April 23, 2007, 09:07:19 pm »
Um... is there going to be any intelligent discussion in this topic at all or is it just a bastion for Bush haters?
Maybe it would help if more Bush lovers chipped in, then?

I would but it would just turn into a long winded debate

Offline Cobra

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #56 on: April 23, 2007, 09:34:36 pm »
Good we love long winded debates here.

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #57 on: April 24, 2007, 12:56:11 am »
*points at religion and gun topics*

I personally think that Clinton and Bush both did crappy jobs, but in different ways. The only president I like is (ironically) Harding because he managed to get elected just by sitting on his front porch for a few months.

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #58 on: April 24, 2007, 12:06:14 pm »
Maybe it would help if more Bush lovers chipped in, then?

I think you are missing the point. The current conversation is not very welcoming nor does it appear to be heading anywhere toward a calm and reasonable debate. The "Bush lovers" as you called them are never going to set foot in a volatile topic such as this and even the people that dislike him are going to stray away because it's not worth their time to write up their argument.


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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #59 on: April 24, 2007, 01:29:32 pm »
Maybe it would help if more Bush lovers chipped in, then?

I think you are missing the point. The current conversation is not very welcoming nor does it appear to be heading anywhere toward a calm and reasonable debate. The "Bush lovers" as you called them are never going to set foot in a volatile topic such as this and even the people that dislike him are going to stray away because it's not worth their time to write up their argument.

QFT. This topic really needs to be locked and die before it degenerates into a flame-fest. There are better ways to find out what people think of Bush.

Offline LadyM

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #60 on: April 24, 2007, 02:14:46 pm »
Okay, I've been reading this thread and though I'm not pleased with the topic, I'll give my opinion anyway. To make a thread with nothing more than "Bush is a moron" is not the basis of a good discussion especially from someone who has never voted. Had I been here when it started, I probably would have deleted it.

As I've said in the past, I am a Republican, I voted for President Bush in both elections. He won both elections fairly and within the guidelines of how our elections are run. With the exception of some western and eastern states, most of the US are conservative red states. The two parties are so opposite partisan that no matter who was President, the Democrats would tear them apart. California has the highest electoral votes at 55 so they carry alot of weight.


2000 elections


2004 elections

What you have to remember is that less than a year into his Presidency, we were attacked by terrorists on 9/11/2001. This totally unexpected event changed forever the way the President Bush would have to handle things. Had that event never taken place, things would probably be much different today. Based on the information that he had and the intelligence he received, he made very hard decisions. One of the things that I like about him is he doesn't waffle, he makes a decision and stands behind it even if its not a popular one. Time and history will tell us whether or not the decisions he made were good or bad ones. None of us know what he has to deal with on a daily basis, none of us walk in his shoes. He is not a stupid man, he is intelligent and makes use of the expertise of others around him. I fully believe that if former President Clinton had handled the terrorism problem after the Cole bombing and the first WTC bombing, maybe it wouldn't have gotten so bad. Terrorism is not going to go away but since we have been fighting in Iraq, there has not been another attack on our soil. Perhaps the campaign is working. Had Al Gore been our President at that time, I have no confidence that things would been handled any better.

Our economy is strong, my taxes are lower and I feel safe at home. These are reasons I support President Bush. I personally would like to see the country come together as one and stop being so divided into a two party line. It's really ripping the country apart into two halves.

Note: If the discussion is going to continue, then please state your reasons of why you don't like him but just don't call him names.  If this turns into a flame war, I will lock the topic.

edit: I notice as I was posting, the topic title got changed.

« Last Edit: April 24, 2007, 02:22:25 pm by LadyM »

Offline Dartje

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Re: Your thoughts on the government, politics, and ect
« Reply #61 on: April 24, 2007, 02:55:18 pm »
LadyM ?

Can you dig up some more of those nice charts ?

What im really am trying to say is are the central and midwest states always mostly republican and are the coastal states mostly democratic ?

Offline LadyM

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Re: Your thoughts on the government, politics, and ect
« Reply #62 on: April 24, 2007, 03:06:12 pm »
Yes, the midwest and southern states are almost always Republican. The western states like California are always Democrat. On the east coast, the Northeastern states are Democrat and the Southeastern states are Republican. I live in a very Republican state. (NC)

"The size of the electoral college has been set at 538 since the election of 1964. Each state is allocated as many electors as it has Representatives and Senators in the United States Congress. Since the most populous states have the most seats in congress, they also have the most electors. The states with the most are California (55), followed by Texas (34) and New York (31). A candidate must receive a majority of votes from the electoral college (currently 270) to win the Presidency"
-Wiki article


2004 election

Offline Mate0

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Re: Your thoughts on the government, politics, and ect
« Reply #63 on: April 25, 2007, 06:15:19 am »
I voted the fourth one because, although I dislike him, I don't live in the United States  ::)

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Offline Uroboros

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Re: Anyone else dislike the U.S president
« Reply #64 on: April 25, 2007, 08:06:23 am »
Maybe it would help if more Bush lovers chipped in, then?
I think you are missing the point. The current conversation is not very welcoming nor does it appear to be heading anywhere toward a calm and reasonable debate. The "Bush lovers" as you called them are never going to set foot in a volatile topic such as this and even the people that dislike him are going to stray away because it's not worth their time to write up their argument.
"Bush lovers" was a simple reversal of "Bush haters", feels kind of blindly accusatory doesn't it? Maybe I jumped on you a bit strongly, though... just tried to make a point, not aggravate.

If you want to flush out the senseless ranters, a number of people openly (maturely) talking on the subject may drive them out. Yeah, volatile subjects can either go up in flames or vibrate uneasily whilst the conversation goes on, but the blind haters/lovers tend to leave once confronted with intelligence, as they find they cant really respond without making fools out of themselves. Then again, some may stay, but far easier subjects have gone down in flames. Lock it when its time comes, not prior to it, otherwise those who do want to debate miss a chance (or just start a new thread).

I dont know, I see another potential "Religion" thread here, only this time with more of an even side-vs-side. I dont think thats necessarily a bad thing either. Fire extinguishers on standby.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2007, 08:08:00 am by Uroboros »

Offline Hammerman58

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Re: Your thoughts on the government, politics, and ect
« Reply #65 on: April 25, 2007, 10:37:32 am »
Ok maybe we dont have to keep bashing bush now. Lets just start to discuss other political issues.
Theres that scandel over the football player killed in iraq and the story about that jessica lynch story to,
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Re: Your thoughts on the government, politics, and ect
« Reply #66 on: April 25, 2007, 12:11:17 pm »
Actually LadyM, it's not so completely divided like that.

The country isn't Red and Blue, so much as purple. If you look at this by county, the only reason democrats took most of the non-New England states were by taking a few major cities (Look at Penn. And NY, only a handful of democratic counties!). There are also large democratic pockets even in the deep south.

Not that as I republican I don't mind seeing so many red counties  ;)

« Last Edit: April 25, 2007, 12:13:34 pm by Brandonazz »

Offline LadyM

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Re: Your thoughts on the government, politics, and ect
« Reply #67 on: April 25, 2007, 12:50:53 pm »
Look at all the red, that should tell you alot.  ;)

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Re: Your thoughts on the government, politics, and ect
« Reply #68 on: April 25, 2007, 12:53:40 pm »
It shows you that upward of 80% (90%? 95%?) of counties are Republican, but about half the population  :P

Offline Luminar

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Re: Your thoughts on the government, politics, and ect
« Reply #69 on: April 25, 2007, 01:08:51 pm »
Strange. Not that I would dare defend liberalism, but I would have expected more of a divide... I mean, wasnt opinion supposed to be REALLY split on Bush in general?

Also i'm not certain about fairly. Recall that Gore won...

Offline Brandonazz

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Re: Your thoughts on the government, politics, and ect
« Reply #70 on: April 25, 2007, 01:12:50 pm »
I admit I've fallen victim to the anti-bush wave. When i think about it though, I can't think of any particular reason that I dislike him, aside from that I think we slightly overdid Iraq. Personally I'm in favor of partitioning it into three countries, but bah..whatever.

Offline /lurk

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Re: Your thoughts on the government, politics, and ect
« Reply #71 on: April 25, 2007, 01:23:08 pm »
I don't get it. Why would poor people vote Republican? They're more Conservative than... well, the Conservatives.
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Offline LadyM

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Re: Your thoughts on the government, politics, and ect
« Reply #72 on: April 25, 2007, 01:24:07 pm »
That's the mis-information, there are more people that support Bush than they want you to know about. Gore did not win, he just did not want to admit defeat. He wanted a recount and it still came out in favor of Bush. He could have drug the recount out longer but he finally conceded. It still would have went to Bush. The election was fair by the electoral guidelines. There was no stealing of votes.  ;)

As far as Iraq, I'm not willing to say that it hasn't helped until years from now when we see how things turned out. We have become a society of instant gratification and if we don't see results right away, we are quick to admit defeat. It takes time to see results especially in something so large as Iraq.

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Re: Your thoughts on the government, politics, and ect
« Reply #73 on: April 25, 2007, 01:53:26 pm »
That makes sense. I hate myself for falling victim to mass stupidity  :(

Offline Kcronos

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Re: Your thoughts on the government, politics, and ect
« Reply #74 on: April 25, 2007, 01:59:49 pm »
LadyM, I just don't like the opinions expressed in the conservative ideals.  I don't like the Iraq war, thought it was a mistake, and I hate the vice president.  That is all I'm saying.  A fanatc conservative is a stupid fundie, a fanatic liberal is a crazy hippie.  You should all think about that before making accusations.  I believe that there is no way to achieve a perfect society, and it only hurts the masses to try and argue that you have finally discovered a way.  That is all.
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Offline LadyM

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Re: Your thoughts on the government, politics, and ect
« Reply #75 on: April 25, 2007, 02:09:17 pm »
You don't have to like the conservative opinions. I don't agree with all of them myself but I tend to fall more toward the conservative than liberal side. Most of that is due to taxes and economy. No one likes a war, Vietnam was a mess and now they can look back and see what went wrong. This war is not even on that scale.

I tend to vote for the person I like in elections, locally I have voted Democrat before but Presidentially, I tend to vote Republican. I probably would be more Libertarian or Independent in my views but I've never changed parties.

Offline Oviraptor

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Re: Your thoughts on the government, politics, and ect
« Reply #76 on: April 25, 2007, 05:30:13 pm »


Hehe, most of Maine isn't leaning to either side. :P

What's interesting is that both of Maine's U.S. senators are republicans, however both of them are in the top 4 for popularity, even though Maine is a mostly democrat state. (source: http://www.surveyusa.com/50State2006/Net100USSenatorApproval061122.htm)

What I am trying to say is that you should vote by party, but by who you think is the best candidate. If that just so happens to be all the same party, that's fine, but you should blindly pick only one party.

I never have, nor ever will, be a member of any political party.

Offline Brandonazz

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Re: Your thoughts on the government, politics, and ect
« Reply #77 on: April 25, 2007, 07:22:05 pm »
Personally, I don't like the way we elect people because of the flaws you see in the above map.

I think it should be more parliment-esque.

Say there are exactly 300m people.

For every 1m that vote democratic, a "congressman" should be appointed to congress.
Likewise with republican.

And presidential elections should be desided by popular vote, not electoral college.

Senators should either cease to exist, or have there be one senator from each state, appointed by the state legislature. Senators were just created by the states-rights states around the American Revolution, the concept is a relic  :-\ The same for the electoral college; if most people vote against you, you shouldn't win.

Offline Cobra

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Re: Your thoughts on the government, politics, and ect
« Reply #78 on: April 25, 2007, 10:38:44 pm »
If you have more than 2 parties it's quiet possible to have more than half the voting population vote against you. I don't know much about what goes on if there are small independent candidates in the US sound like here are but they get so little of the vote it matter almost none. I know hear in Australia aside from the ALP and the Liberal Party we have the Australian Democrats and the Greens also Family 1st seems to have gather strength with some ultra conservative views (burning lesbians as witches i think they mentioned one point) anyway they often get enough votes that it's not uncommon that the winner doesn't have a majority vote which is actually needed to win an election here hence preferential voting.

Still as much as people here seem to hate John Howard and were against the GST and how much we don't like the IR laws or are involvement in the war in Iraq we keep voting him in.