Author Topic: Is spore too cartoony?  (Read 28037 times)

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Offline Notorious B.O.B

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Re: Is spore too cartoony?
« Reply #45 on: March 18, 2007, 12:20:48 pm »
Ermm lol over that outburst.



If you want so much

What I want was displayed in the prototypes and has since completely disappeared. If you look at intial models and the models now there are subtle differences which I simply see and become disappointed with. Seriously the prototype texture editor and the current texture editor end results are from entirely different worlds, my opinion is the prototype was infinitely better. Seriously anyone have the series of images that has the eyeless frog to show the obvious differences between then and now?

I know, I know....I might be simple and only comprised of a few hundred parts, but overall the options are almost limitless. More parts can be added to the game in order to expand on the initial content.

Parts aren't the inherent limitation I see, I see limitations in the ability to manipulate the "clay" Imagine a horseshoe, now imagne 10 of them all lined up forming a tunnel (obviously without a "bottom/floor")....not a body shape one could create in the editor as shown so far. The manipulation of the clay is extending, bending, and swelling...so far things like pinching, denting, flattening (which are things you can see in the early greyscale group shots of models) haven't been shown to be possible since.



I think I know what you're saying Proto, as far as limitations.  I wanna make a creature that has a very wide body in one dimension, but very flat in another dimension (like a pancake) Can I do that?  No idea.
And as far as pictures go, do you mean these?





Those aren't dented, pinched, or flattened, they just appear so.
Also, I don't even know if those were made in Spore.  they could have been done in another animation program like maya, considering how long ago they were made.  I'm still looking for the eyeless frog, I think I know what you speak of (was that a Spore creature? I don't remember)

« Last Edit: March 18, 2007, 12:26:52 pm by Notorious B.O.B »
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Offline potterrulez

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Re: Is spore too cartoony?
« Reply #46 on: March 18, 2007, 12:29:21 pm »
I assume this is the frog your looking for...


Offline Fatalfist

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Re: Is spore too cartoony?
« Reply #47 on: March 18, 2007, 12:37:29 pm »
ya thats probly it and that ant no spore editor probly something they were using from miya or such to develope phisics

Offline Notorious B.O.B

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Re: Is spore too cartoony?
« Reply #48 on: March 18, 2007, 12:38:17 pm »
I think that is the one.  Now the question is:  Is that even Spore?!

Secondly, we don't know if we can't do such things Proto.  Suffice to say that I hope we can, at least to some extent.
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Offline potterrulez

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Re: Is spore too cartoony?
« Reply #49 on: March 18, 2007, 12:41:47 pm »
Well that is a shot taken by the spore development team.  Obviously this image is from ages ago.  As you can see it is simply a modeled model, if you get me :P - as in not something created by dragging parts from a toolbar.

Offline Protoavis

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Re: Is spore too cartoony?
« Reply #50 on: March 18, 2007, 01:52:25 pm »

Those aren't dented, pinched, or flattened, they just appear so.

And how do they go about appearing so considering at that point they are textureless?

in the second group shot, the backrow creature on the right, pecs..big evil spider creature slight grooves/dents horizontally on it's body. Granted they aren't the most dramatic examples of manipulations that have gone AWOL, but they were there in that image.

ya thats probly it and that ant no spore editor probly something they were using from miya or such to develope phisics

The powerpoint it came from stated it was the prototype texture editor. You know work out the program so it can do it procedurally then create a user friendly interface. But from that to what we have now...downgrade.
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Offline WhiteWolf7

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Re: Is spore too cartoony?
« Reply #51 on: March 18, 2007, 01:58:51 pm »
Well you can make the limbs muscles look bulky i would imagine you can with the body too

As for denting it looks like selecting a spot on the blob and wheeling the mouse wheel a tad could do that

Not to mention all the hands/feet/mouths etc can be morphed, pulled,strecthed etc. Creativiety is not an issue. But how does the look being slightly cartoony and creativity go hand in hand anyway?
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Offline flames

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Re: Is spore too cartoony?
« Reply #52 on: March 18, 2007, 01:59:22 pm »
I don't mind the bad backround for the creature editor as long as the game is the same.I while ago I thought the back round was what the hole game was like and that made my go
"Ahhhh they ruined spore!" but then I realised it was just that and the microbe stage that was bad.I am so glad now and people just don't worry untill someone posts
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Offline Dekadin

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Re: Is spore too cartoony?
« Reply #53 on: March 18, 2007, 02:31:22 pm »
I guess it comes down to what matters most, gameplay or graphics. I mean geez the reason why Starcaft is still the number one RTS game in the world is because of gameplay not because of graphics. World of Warcraft and Counter-Strike can be said the same....people play more 'normal' counterstrike then they do source.
I think you're confusing style and graphics here. I don't really care about the quality of the graphics of spore, what I'm complaining about is the style. I love starcraft, I still play it to this day. Starcraft is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. It might not have the best graphics (compared to today's) but I still love the way the game looks. No one could call the artistic style of starcraft cartoony. I just can't stand the cartoony artistic style, that's all. And to all of those people saying "Well you can create realistic creatures if you want to...", I've seen no creatures demonstrating the level of realism I'm talking about, and in one of the presentations, they pretty much said that they've decided on the cartoony look for the game.

Offline Lurker28

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Re: Is spore too cartoony?
« Reply #54 on: March 18, 2007, 02:44:42 pm »
I think that is the one.  Now the question is:  Is that even Spore?!

Secondly, we don't know if we can't do such things Proto.  Suffice to say that I hope we can, at least to some extent.



This is actually a 3D Modeling tool, see the XYZ axis marking behind the frog it what you use to manipulate parts and the position. This does not in anyway, or has EVER reflected spore as a game...this was a slide in a presentation talking about how they brought spore from a conceptual standpoint to reality. They had another slide as well that had a very nicely textured turtle which again was modeled in Maya.

I do not know where the hell you got the idea that was spore, those are extremely powerful 3D Animation tools which takes years to master.

the game will allow you to make interesting creatures, but not as detailed as something you would see in LOTR or Harry Potter.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2007, 02:53:37 pm by Lurker28 »

Offline potterrulez

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Re: Is spore too cartoony?
« Reply #55 on: March 18, 2007, 02:48:33 pm »
I never said it was spore - i simply said it wasn't a random 3D model from the internet.

Offline Lurker28

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Re: Is spore too cartoony?
« Reply #56 on: March 18, 2007, 02:52:20 pm »
I guess it comes down to what matters most, gameplay or graphics. I mean geez the reason why Starcaft is still the number one RTS game in the world is because of gameplay not because of graphics. World of Warcraft and Counter-Strike can be said the same....people play more 'normal' counterstrike then they do source.
I think you're confusing style and graphics here. I don't really care about the quality of the graphics of spore, what I'm complaining about is the style. I love starcraft, I still play it to this day. Starcraft is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. It might not have the best graphics (compared to today's) but I still love the way the game looks. No one could call the artistic style of starcraft cartoony. I just can't stand the cartoony artistic style, that's all. And to all of those people saying "Well you can create realistic creatures if you want to...", I've seen no creatures demonstrating the level of realism I'm talking about, and in one of the presentations, they pretty much said that they've decided on the cartoony look for the game.

That is funny you say you like Starcraft, when pretty much every game Blizzard has made...besides the Diablo series was designed in a style that was cartoonish in nature. Very exaggerated forms, even for 1998 there were games like Total Annihilation which far surpassed Starcraft in terms of "realism."

Style again is completely up to your opinion. I prefer more of a cartoonish or toy like world when I am crafting something like this. It is far to complicated for the developers to go 20 years ahead of our technology to come up with very fluid and realistically movable creatures. That is like saying you want an FPS game to have realistic bone breaking whens shooting someone in their knees, plus fully dynamic physics (only again found in Animation software, havok engine is not quite 'real life' nor is the rag doll effects), and do not for get an FPS which has Mental Ray (it is again a lighting system used when rendering out Animations, to help create more realistic reflextions and refractions of light)....If you wanted all these things in an FPS game you are going to have to wait another 5-10 years because the technology is not quite there nor is our computers.

With that said, spore would require a computer that does not exist to render out those images, you would be complaining about how slow it was running. People complain enough about Oblivion and how slow it runs on some of the top end computers, imagine that but 20x the amount of processor usage. It just isn't doable right now, you are expecting something far behind what you can even do.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2007, 02:55:28 pm by Lurker28 »

Offline WhiteWolf7

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Re: Is spore too cartoony?
« Reply #57 on: March 18, 2007, 02:57:54 pm »

I've seen no creatures demonstrating the level of realism I'm talking about,

There are plenty of realistic creatures opposed to super cartooney (When i think cartooney i think goofy and donald)

The *realistic* your looking for is movie realistic or something absurd like that and spore never was that to begin with. Honestly theres not alot of change in the style from the GDC 05 Video and nows video. Cept the graphics are better but the style looks almost the same

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Offline Lurker28

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Re: Is spore too cartoony?
« Reply #58 on: March 18, 2007, 03:01:53 pm »
There are plenty of realistic creatures opposed to super cartooney (When i think cartooney i think goofy and donald)

The *realistic* your looking for is movie realistic or something absurd like that and spore never was that to begin with. Honestly theres not alot of change in the style from the GDC 05 Video and nows video. Cept the graphics are better but the style looks almost the same



I concur, very little has changed in terms of graphics...they style has shifted to a little "brighter" world, but again that is so minute it was not a life changing aspect of the style. Overall, the style has pretty much maintained itself over the past 2 years we have all been following the game. It is very hard to get a complete handle on the graphics in motion do to the blurry video quality, but you can understand.




I mean seriously guys, you are telling me those are hyper realistic or more realistic textures then now? They are bland, the ground texture is blurry as all hell, it looks washed out...the damn grass looks like it has been painted on by a 3 year old, very simple lines. It is a little "dirtier" because they are in more of an arid desert area on the planet. The only thing that has a better texture than that of which I have seen in the previous spore videos might be the hut, which looks still more like a world of warcraft texture....nothing realistic AT ALL.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2007, 03:05:05 pm by Lurker28 »

Offline Dekadin

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Re: Is spore too cartoony?
« Reply #59 on: March 18, 2007, 03:06:29 pm »
Quote
That is funny you say you like Starcraft, when pretty much every game Blizzard has made...besides the Diablo series was designed in a style that was cartoonish in nature.
I... what? First of all, that argument makes no sense. I never said anything about other games blizzard has made, and frankly I don't like their artistic style as much. They are totally different in terms of looks.

Quote
Style again is completely up to your opinion. I prefer more of a cartoonish or toy like world when blah blah blah... 20 years ahead of our technology... If you wanted all these things in an FPS game you are going to have to wait another 5-10 years...
I'm aware that it's my opinion, but I don't see what that has to do with anything. I'm expressing my opinion that spore looks too cartoony. As for the rest of what you said, I did say in one of my posts that spore is ahead of its time still. I still don't think technology is quite at the point where we can do this game justice yet, and I'd be willing to wait. I'm a patient man.