Author Topic: Gaming Steve Episode 73 – E3 and New Beginnings  (Read 1984 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Gaming Steve

  • Master Chief
  • Dig Dug Digger
  • *****
  • Posts: 1543
    • View Profile
    • Gaming Steve
Gaming Steve Episode 73 – E3 and New Beginnings
« on: June 19, 2015, 07:53:42 am »
Is it the Olympic Games? Halley’s Comet? A UFO sighting? No it’s another episode of Gaming Steve!

Gaming Steve Episode 73
  • E3 2015 Recap
    • Who is this Steve person?
    • Why I decided to bring back the show?
    • Coverage of all the major conferences.
    • Show mail! (how did that happen?).
    • A new contest.
Download the show (98 minutes): Gaming Steve Episode 73.

Subscribe to the Podcast directly in iTunes.
Add the Gaming Steve Podcast feed to your RSS aggregator.



Check out Gaming Steve on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/thegamingsteve

Offline PatMan33

  • Fable Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 28788
  • M I RITE? STICKERS?
    • View Profile
    • DuckDuckGo
Re: Gaming Steve Episode 73 – E3 and New Beginnings
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2015, 08:32:56 am »
xboxnintendopcandplaystation

Offline Ultimatum

  • Wild Gunman Gangster
  • *****
  • Posts: 3330
    • View Profile
Re: Gaming Steve Episode 73 – E3 and New Beginnings
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2015, 08:45:02 am »
Cool beans!

Edit:lol the Kinect.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 08:52:47 am by Ultimatum »

Offline eropS

  • Out Run Speedster
  • *****
  • Posts: 5137
  • That's right, I went there
    • View Profile
Re: Gaming Steve Episode 73 – E3 and New Beginnings
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2015, 10:07:29 am »
"I felt like I kind of missed my chance"

Oh for sure.

"Most people go to the forums"

!? 150m page views, 15 active forum members.

-

0% chance FO4 even touches The Witcher 3 in terms of depth of world

Dishonored is one of the best games of this decade. Seriously, it's got Deus Ex and Thief elements blended to a great mix.

Isn't Magic doing an online game, too? Not Duels of the Planeswalker but a Hearthstone style client and updated pvp thing and nixing the yearly releases?

-

[Mayrio]

Why. Pretty sure even the character goes 'It's-a me, [Mahrio]

-

Hearthstone Tavern Brawl is fun. Heathstone is ridiculous and requires an absurd amount of money or time imo otherwise you can't compete without the newer/better cards. I'll play you. KOQ#1607

Nintendo seems insistent that Zelda U will be on the Wii U

-

Fun stuff though hope you make this regular and not like your last E3 show!
No, no, he did. In the everything else section, at least. Officially, this makes him king.

Offline Krakow Sam

  • Moderator
  • Dungeon Sieger
  • *****
  • Posts: 24485
  • Stern dissaproval
    • View Profile
Re: Gaming Steve Episode 73 – E3 and New Beginnings
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2015, 10:56:28 am »


"With that being said" like 2 minutes in. The catchphrase is back.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 10:59:19 am by Krakow Sam »
Sam is basically right, he's just cranky.

Offline Gaming Steve

  • Master Chief
  • Dig Dug Digger
  • *****
  • Posts: 1543
    • View Profile
    • Gaming Steve
Re: Gaming Steve Episode 73 – E3 and New Beginnings
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2015, 11:24:52 am »
"I felt like I kind of missed my chance"

Oh for sure.

Perhaps ... but it's never too late I am hoping. I also have resources and connections that most people don't have. We'll see...

"Most people go to the forums"

!? 150m page views, 15 active forum members.

That can change as well. Perhaps not the Spore days but it can happen.

-

0% chance FO4 even touches The Witcher 3 in terms of depth of world

Probably. Witcher 3 is only rivaled by GTA V and I might even call it a tie.

Dishonored is one of the best games of this decade. Seriously, it's got Deus Ex and Thief elements blended to a great mix.

The story is a bit heavy handed but it's fun.

Isn't Magic doing an online game, too? Not Duels of the Planeswalker but a Hearthstone style client and updated pvp thing and nixing the yearly releases?

They have one, but it's pretty horrible. And if you think Hearthstone is expensive, you haven't played Magic. Hearthstone you can spend a few hundred to get every card in the set. Magic you will need to spend thousands just to get a competitive deck, and then 3 months later you need to do it again. Plus their client is horrible, they were the biggest fish in the pod for so long that they didn't really upgrade their online client and now they are playing catchup and falling further and further behind.

-

[Mayrio]

Why. Pretty sure even the character goes 'It's-a me, [Mahrio]

-

Hearthstone Tavern Brawl is fun. Heathstone is ridiculous and requires an absurd amount of money or time imo otherwise you can't compete without the newer/better cards. I'll play you. KOQ#1607

Perhaps, but compared to other CCGs it's pretty cheap.

Nintendo seems insistent that Zelda U will be on the Wii U

Everyone hopes so. Perhaps you are right, we will see.

-

Fun stuff though hope you make this regular and not like your last E3 show!

Don't worry, as long as people listen I will do them.
Check out Gaming Steve on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/thegamingsteve

Offline eropS

  • Out Run Speedster
  • *****
  • Posts: 5137
  • That's right, I went there
    • View Profile
Re: Gaming Steve Episode 73 – E3 and New Beginnings
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2015, 12:15:37 pm »
Neat! Good luck I'm looking forward to more shows.

Is Magic really that expensive? Holy crap and here I was considering getting into it.. hm...

What is this online client you speak of? I'm referencing this thing that seems to be their 'Hearthstone'.
No, no, he did. In the everything else section, at least. Officially, this makes him king.

Offline Kaizer

  • Mail Order Monster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4393
    • View Profile
Re: Gaming Steve Episode 73 – E3 and New Beginnings
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2015, 12:23:55 pm »
There's the magic online client which essentially lets you buy and trade digital versions of the cards/boosters and play with others for a little less than the paper cost, however even online you're looking at still around maybe 200-300 bucks for some of the better cards (A lot of out of print cards in paper like the coveted alpha dual lands and black lotus got digital only reprints). I have an EDH deck on it I spent nearly 300 on at one point, but that's mainly because EDH is an expensive format, standard/drafts/sealed formats tend to be much cheaper to play.

Honestly the main use for that client is playing the Momir Vig game mode which is well worth the price for using the client.

Offline PatMan33

  • Fable Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 28788
  • M I RITE? STICKERS?
    • View Profile
    • DuckDuckGo
Re: Gaming Steve Episode 73 – E3 and New Beginnings
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2015, 12:44:45 pm »
Ooookay! Got it downloaded this morning and can finally sit down and listen.

Will be nice to hear your voice agai- GAMING NEWWWWWWWWWWWS

GAMING NEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWS

Offline Cobra

  • Moderator
  • All Your Base Zero Wing
  • *****
  • Posts: 8951
  • People want ducks.
    • View Profile
Re: Gaming Steve Episode 73 – E3 and New Beginnings
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2015, 02:56:30 am »
Downloaded to my iPod will listen on the way to work it will be just like 8 years ago.

Offline dndfreak

  • 1942 Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 3766
  • The GM
    • View Profile
    • PathLosers
Re: Gaming Steve Episode 73 – E3 and New Beginnings
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2015, 08:16:54 am »
You know, I was on these forums for a while, but I never actually listened to a GS podcast, even the 2010 'comeback'. Now I have. Good stuff.

I love Dishonored as well. Steam will say I have nearly 300 hours in it, but that's because it was on a free weekend once and I actually left my computer running for two weeks just to finish it. Twice. Bought it later on a sale with the dlc missions and still haven't gotten around to them, so I suppose that speaks for replay value. Still, it was the most fun I ever had with a Bethesda title while it lasted, and that's saying a lot.

Playing Magic might not make you a great designer of card games, but it definitely helps. I was on the design team once for a game called Shadow Era, by Wulven Studios. You might remember it if you're a GenCon regular. Anyways, the CEO, Kyle Poole, played a little kitchen table Magic, I don't know how much. He claims to hate the game and a lot of its mechanics despite Shadow Era sharing a lot of them. He hired myself and a bunch of others from their forums (largely why I got pulled away from GS in the first place) to work on finalizing the game's core set before launch.

He (Kyle) was never the lead designer of the game, just the guy with the money, but his management skills weren't... well, they weren't the greatest. We never actually had a 'design lead', which meant that instead of the team making decisions internally to present, we had to go to him and rationalize everything beforehand. Needless to say, there was conflict. We were designing a Magic clone, but with some unique differences largely due to the mobile client and the fact that the game is digital. I'd say it was more like Magic's Portal sets. Anyways, the majority of the team and I played Magic to some degree and many of our instincts involved spotting the mistakes Magic made in the past and correcting them.

If Kyle liked these changes, or at least thought them interesting enough to test, he'd give the o.k. pretty easily. If he wanted us to explain, usually the easiest method was to say, 'Magic already learned this lesson the hard way.' Like you said, developing a TCG is hard. Explaining the mechanics in technical terms to a non-competitive player is even harder. We could point to articles not by players but specifically by MaRo and other devs laying out everything wrong with the unchanged versions. Kyle didn't like that, and pushing any of these was a lot more difficult. There was fighting. Some of them eventually got there, others didn't. Only one of us on the team hadn't had much Magic experience. Guess which one of them is still on the team today.

Still, Kyle's supposedly gotten better. After all our replacements started talking Magic lingo too, I think he learned he'll never get TCG devs that don't. Either way, it was too late for us. Shadow Era barely survived Wulven going into the red after a botched physical launch and after nearly six years running still has two officially released sets (including the one I worked on). It still has players and it still has some classic mistakes from Alpha that will bite the game in the ass if it does survive any longer.

Either way, the rest of us haven't been able to get back into the business. Getting a coding job can be hard, but getting a design position with barely any experience? Good luck.

Long story short, have more faith in LSV and the rest of the CFB crew. Being a Magic player doesn't make you immune to mistakes, but it at least makes you familiar with a lot of them.

Neat! Good luck I'm looking forward to more shows.

Is Magic really that expensive? Holy crap and here I was considering getting into it.. hm...

What is this online client you speak of? I'm referencing this thing that seems to be their 'Hearthstone'.

The difference is that unlike Hearthstone and other digital tcgs, Magic: Online has a built-in third party market that allows you to sell back or trade cards, both for in-game currency and real money. Digital Magic has pricing slightly less then the American paper singles because of the fact that anyone can theoretically 'go infinite' or turn a profit, just like the paper game. However, Magic: Online costs are about half as much as those sold in England or other overseas markets due to their relative scarcity and the fact that most major singles retailers are American, spiking foreign shipping costs.

You'll spend anywhere on $100-250 on a new standard deck on MTGO. As of quite recently, WotC has swapped the standard print cycle so new cards cycle out of standard every 18-21 months instead of 15-24. This means that standard will change far much drastically and it should prove easier to play much the same general strategy for a very long period of time. If you sell cards as they get older to replace with new ones, the running cost for competing in Standard at a high level shouldn't be more than roughly 20-30 bucks every couple months on average, not including cost and potential rewards of events if you're playing for prizes.

The alternative are called Eternal formats, which don't change nearly as often because older cards don't cycle out. Modern includes every card stretching about as far back as a 2003 ish redesign, considered the 'modern' transition in Magic's history. Legacy goes much farther back, except for a fairly extensive banlist. These formats tend to cost anywhere between $400-$1200 for a list, but once you have those cards, they're yours. Not including the semiannual banlist changes you'll have that deck forever and nothing in it will 'rotate out' like Standard.

Offline Gaming Steve

  • Master Chief
  • Dig Dug Digger
  • *****
  • Posts: 1543
    • View Profile
    • Gaming Steve
Re: Gaming Steve Episode 73 – E3 and New Beginnings
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2015, 10:21:42 am »
Hey there dndfreak.

Now that is a good response. I can definitely talk about this topic for hours and hours and your insights are excellent.

One of the biggest issues with TCG is that if you design a game to work on a computer (like Hearthstone) you need to put in limitations to accommodate the computer and the screen itself. That usually means things like a "column-based" board (where there are specific places to put each card and a hard limit on the number of cards on the board) or a game where cards can only attack other specific cards (again, for similar reasons).

Which is why so many digital games feel the "same" or so restricted compared to Magic -- because they ARE. Hearthstone is pretty amazing in that it's fun, fast, and mostly fresh (but it is restrictive). They have a very good existing world pull their lore from so everyone can relate to the cards and characters right away. I think the game has a long way to go, but I know how much money that game is making and I also know that they recently put a HUGE number of people on the Hearthstone team so expect to start seeing a lot of new cards/features/gameplay in the future (a lot).

Back to Magic and what makes Magic so complex is that it has NONE of these artificial restrictions. The complexity of Magic is just staggering, and it simply doesn't translate into a digital form that great, especially not mobile. The new Steam-based games are actually quite amazing and do a fantastic job of getting people "back into magic", but it's still just a limited experience compared to the full game.

As for your point that you can trade in your sets they did raise the time limit ... but they ALSO raised the price to trade in a set. And Wizards is pretty stuck as they can't undercut the card shops or they will put them all out of business and collapse the market (they finally started to offer those phantom cards, which sort of allows people to play without sinking thousands into the game).

Again, I can go into this in a lot more detail on the show but for every Black Lotus out there I can give you ten other cards that were once worth a fortune and now are completely worthless. When I used to play in 1993 do you know what the "hot card" was? The Hive. That card everyone wanted and the price was nuts. Now? Useless.

As for the price of swapping out your cards into a new Standard set ... $20-$30 is just a TINY bit low. Perhaps if you are running a red deck, but I would put the price much closer to a few hundred. Again, not the END of the world, but it's not cheap, and it's something you need to do every few months (I hate Standard anyhow).

Finally I agree with you that if ANYONE can do a good job it's LSV as he's very smart and I think he understands the market and the game better than almost anyhow. I can probably get him on the show and will try in a future episode to have him talk about the game and his company.

Then again Brian Kibler is also up there with LSV and SolForge is pretty darn boring. So who knows?
Check out Gaming Steve on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/thegamingsteve

Offline dndfreak

  • 1942 Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 3766
  • The GM
    • View Profile
    • PathLosers
Re: Gaming Steve Episode 73 – E3 and New Beginnings
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2015, 11:07:56 am »
Well, I'm not talking about trading in sets. I'm talking the third party market, companies like MTGOTraders that will pay you via paypal instead of tix for in-game cards. Companies like this also tend to rebuy cards as well. If you're replacing 25% (fifteen cards, but less basics for Standard, more like 12 average, not including reprints) every six months, even if you only get 40% trade value on the cards you're replacing, the expense on average shouldn't be that much. Even if you have to spend a hundred bucks each rotation to re-equip a standard deck, you're only doing it once or twice a year.

The Hive is probably unfair as a comparison. Yes, there was a time where a Shivan Dragon outpriced Lotuses, but the difference is that this didn't go on for very long. An alpha Black Lotus now has been the most expensive card on the market for a good fifteen years and it's a pretty safe bet WotC won't jeopardize that any time soon. This isn't really applicable in Standard, but then again, Standard prices rarely dip above the $50 point for singles. Even if they it a sudden drop for whatever reason, there's no guarantee a card doesn't suddenly shoot up in price, either. I remember when Splinter Twin was a nickel, before Deceiver Exarch and Modern. I remember when Jace, the Mind Sculptor went for $60 during preorder season, the reason SCG now doubles the price ticket on planeswalker presales. Tarmogoyf was $20-30 for a while while it was in Standard, eventually peaking at $40. These things tend to balance themselves out. You can strike gold just as easily as you can strike out. Not everything goes down in value over time.

EDIT: For the record, I enjoy SolForge. The mechanics it uses are clever imho, though I'll admit the large numbers it uses might not be necessary.

EDIT EDIT: We should swap to pms or something. This is interesting, but also probably not the right place.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2015, 11:26:19 am by dndfreak »

Offline Inkling

  • S.T.U.N. Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 8061
  • Not a Squid.
    • View Profile
Re: Gaming Steve Episode 73 – E3 and New Beginnings
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2015, 08:03:23 pm »
Yay Steve and podcasts are back!  Yay I'm late!
Probably not a Goat, either.


Offline PatMan33

  • Fable Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 28788
  • M I RITE? STICKERS?
    • View Profile
    • DuckDuckGo
Re: Gaming Steve Episode 73 – E3 and New Beginnings
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2015, 08:59:47 pm »
This is interesting, but also probably not the right place.

Screw that noise. Like you said, it's interesting. ;)