Author Topic: Saddam Hussein Condemend to Death by Hanging  (Read 31250 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline PatMan33

  • Fable Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 28788
  • M I RITE? STICKERS?
    • View Profile
    • DuckDuckGo
Re: Saddam Hussein Condemend to Death by Hanging
« Reply #180 on: January 04, 2007, 02:16:50 pm »
I don't know... but I am sure some of the are saying "Don't Stop Me Now!".

 ;)

*rimshot*

gec05

  • Guest
Re: Saddam Hussein Condemend to Death by Hanging
« Reply #181 on: January 04, 2007, 02:21:31 pm »
I guess I forgot that guns dont kill people, people kill people... with... guns...
Guns do kill people, because without the gun, there would've been no killing

They do but not on their own, they're merely tools. Secondly, guns are made by people so it's the same thing when you say people kill people. Guns by themselves are not evil, they are manifestations of human evil. And people are more than capable of killing without a gun, it's happened hundreds of times before and there are cases. I'm pretty sure you can suffocate someone with a teddy bear if you try hard enough. :D

Offline MorgothTheEnemy

  • Revenging Yar
  • ****
  • Posts: 601
  • I will find the ring...and eat it FOR THE EMPEROR!
    • View Profile
Re: Saddam Hussein Condemend to Death by Hanging
« Reply #182 on: January 04, 2007, 04:51:15 pm »
Bastardman im not trolling. It was relavent because no one said anything about the UK until Lurk said that Im trying to show him how the american way is best. I never said this but since he made the comment I showed him a topic about how the American way is better in a situation that had some relation with crime.

I realize how you were right about how the death penalty costs more. However I still feel that its right and would agree with it if the costs became moe reasonable somehow.

Guns are a civil liberty and relying totally on police and the government to aid you is foolish. Fine guns are nolonger legal. Except criminals will still get guns because.... they're CRIMINALS! Who ever came up with th idiotic mentality that people should not be able to defend themselves? I mean come on.... does          police state ring a bell? Yes guns are bad. Until chaiman whats his face decides to enact a total government takeover and you sit helpless watching him monolougue forcefully on the TV as the army runs through the streets supressing any remaining opposition. And dont say it would never happen because similar has. And could protecting your family and property with a gun be considered human evil?

I apologize for starting an off topic fight.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2007, 05:05:22 pm by MorgothTheEnemy »
Ash Nazg Durbatuluk,
Ash Nazg Gimbatul,
Ash Nazg Thrakatuluk,
Ag Burzum-Ishi Krimpatul!!!

"Then his neighbors looked good, so I gobbled them up too."
                                                                             -762
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/index.htm

Offline syphonbyte

  • Moon Patroller
  • *****
  • Posts: 1497
  • You know what the payment is...
    • View Profile
    • The Village of Fools
Re: Saddam Hussein Condemend to Death by Hanging
« Reply #183 on: January 04, 2007, 07:01:30 pm »
I don't think the death penalty costs more if it's applied in a logical fashion. A few yards of rope or a single bullet are quite inexpensive, so it's really a moot point in my opinion.

The main reason the death penalty exists is not as a punishment but as a safety measure. If somebody kills or rapes somebody else, then there's a very good chance that they'll do it again, so it makes no sense to keep them around and give them that chance. You could keep them in solitary confinement for the rest of their lives but most would agree that it's a fate worse than execution and, as I said, the legal system primarily exists to ensure the saftey of the public, not the criminals.

I'm not even going to get into the gun argument because frankly it's out of place in this topic.

Offline Bastardman

  • Robotron Automaton
  • *****
  • Posts: 1863
  • Dawn of the Final Day (24 hours remain)
    • View Profile
Re: Saddam Hussein Condemend to Death by Hanging
« Reply #184 on: January 04, 2007, 11:58:45 pm »
I don't think the death penalty costs more if it's applied in a logical fashion. A few yards of rope or a single bullet are quite inexpensive, so it's really a moot point in my opinion.

The main reason the death penalty exists is not as a punishment but as a safety measure. If somebody kills or rapes somebody else, then there's a very good chance that they'll do it again, so it makes no sense to keep them around and give them that chance. You could keep them in solitary confinement for the rest of their lives but most would agree that it's a fate worse than execution and, as I said, the legal system primarily exists to ensure the saftey of the public, not the criminals.

I'm not even going to get into the gun argument because frankly it's out of place in this topic.
Most of the costs associated with capital punishment have to do with trial and appeals, not the actual method of execution.

Spending less time and taking less precautions trying people might save money, but there have already been incidents in which people on death row were later found to have been innocent, so I don't think it's in anyone's interests to cut corners here.

Personally, I don't think imprisonment being cheaper than the death penalty is a good reason for abolition. That is, I see the (nonexistent) economic benefits of capital punishment as being the only way anyone could possibly defend it. To put it another way, the fact that imprisonment is cheaper isn't an argument against the death penalty, as much as it is an absence of an argument in favour. There simply is no practical reason for it. It hasn't even been demonstrated to be an effective deterrent against crime. As it is, I don't think it really has a leg to stand on.

Actually, only a very small number of killers, once released, kill again, but I fail to see how they would be "given that chance" if they were in prison. Even if you were dead set on believing that all killers kill again, the fact still remains that you're far more likely to be acquitted from death row (whether guilty or not) on the basis of legal error, etc, than you would be if incarcerated (understandably so, given that execution is kind of irreversible). This has also happened. Not that I'm saying the penal system is fine the way it is, either, I'm just saying that imprisonment is preferable, whatever way you slice it. In the few cases where inmates would choose death over incarceration, if they're really that desperate, the option is there. Capital punishment is both impractical and ethically indefensible.

Guns are a civil liberty and relying totally on police and the government to aid you is foolish. Fine guns are nolonger legal. Except criminals will still get guns because.... they're CRIMINALS! Who ever came up with th idiotic mentality that people should not be able to defend themselves? I mean come on.... does          police state ring a bell? Yes guns are bad. Until chaiman whats his face decides to enact a total government takeover and you sit helpless watching him monolougue forcefully on the TV as the army runs through the streets supressing any remaining opposition. And dont say it would never happen because similar has. And could protecting your family and property with a gun be considered human evil?
The Illuminati are coming for us! To the bomb shelters!

Perhaps you're right. But measly handguns and hunting rifles are never going to defend us against the army of a totalitarian regime. Perhaps we should all be issued with assault rifles and RPGs in case such an event should occur?

Offline p-luke

  • Joust Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 1416
  • The Atheist God
    • View Profile
Re: Saddam Hussein Condemend to Death by Hanging
« Reply #185 on: January 05, 2007, 12:05:29 am »
I don't think the death penalty costs more if it's applied in a logical fashion. A few yards of rope or a single bullet are quite inexpensive, so it's really a moot point in my opinion.

The main reason the death penalty exists is not as a punishment but as a safety measure. If somebody kills or rapes somebody else, then there's a very good chance that they'll do it again, so it makes no sense to keep them around and give them that chance. You could keep them in solitary confinement for the rest of their lives but most would agree that it's a fate worse than execution and, as I said, the legal system primarily exists to ensure the saftey of the public, not the criminals.

I'm not even going to get into the gun argument because frankly it's out of place in this topic.

Crime Passionel? I don't think a rapist or murderer is very likely to do it again, given that he's not just some crazy man with a knife.
That's close to saying that a bad driver who causes an accident should be executed, because it's likely that he'll do it again because he/she's a bad driver. (well, you get my point)

Offline Krakow Sam

  • Moderator
  • Dungeon Sieger
  • *****
  • Posts: 24485
  • Stern dissaproval
    • View Profile
Re: Saddam Hussein Condemend to Death by Hanging
« Reply #186 on: January 05, 2007, 04:59:32 am »
Except criminals will still get guns because.... they're CRIMINALS!
Maybe so, but since only criminals have guns, anyone with a gun is a criminal, and can be carted off to jail before he robs a bank.

It works both ways you know.

Besides, bank robbery isnt really the issue. Most related deaths and injuries arent the result of premeditated crimes. People get pissed off and grab their gun. If all they had to grab was a letterknife then you might see the number of bullets that surgeons have had to fish out of people somewhat reduced.
Sam is basically right, he's just cranky.

Offline syphonbyte

  • Moon Patroller
  • *****
  • Posts: 1497
  • You know what the payment is...
    • View Profile
    • The Village of Fools
Re: Saddam Hussein Condemend to Death by Hanging
« Reply #187 on: January 05, 2007, 03:28:16 pm »
If one wishes to kill, they can do it with or without a gun. Guns just make it easier to find the shooter.

As for death sentences, I personally don't think that there's ever justification for a life imprisonment sentence. The ONLY reason for a life imprisonment sentence is to punish a criminal, which is NOT the purpose of law. The law exists to protect the innocent, not punish the guilty, and I think most would agree that they'd rather die quickly than face life without parole and rot for decades in some prison.

Offline Bastardman

  • Robotron Automaton
  • *****
  • Posts: 1863
  • Dawn of the Final Day (24 hours remain)
    • View Profile
Re: Saddam Hussein Condemend to Death by Hanging
« Reply #188 on: January 05, 2007, 07:02:05 pm »
If one wishes to kill, they can do it with or without a gun. Guns just make it easier to find the shooter.
Then you wouldn't object to legalising, say, flamethrowers, as long as they're for recreational use only?

I mean, if one wishes to kill, they can do it with or without a flamethrower. Flamethrowers just make it easier to find the shooter.

As for death sentences, I personally don't think that there's ever justification for a life imprisonment sentence. The ONLY reason for a life imprisonment sentence is to punish a criminal, which is NOT the purpose of law. The law exists to protect the innocent, not punish the guilty, and I think most would agree that they'd rather die quickly than face life without parole and rot for decades in some prison.
That's where you're wrong. Law, or rather the justice system, exists to do both.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?justice
Quote
jus·tice
...
1 a : the maintenance or administration of what is just especially by the impartial adjustment of conflicting claims or the assignment of merited rewards or punishments
As I understand it, the punishment part is supposed to deter criminality, which does protect the innocent, so I suppose you are right in that way.

However, if your claim that life in prison is worse than the death sentence from the offender's point of view were true, suicides among life prisoners would be near-ubiquitous, or at the very least, the majority of them would request the death penalty themselves. This has happened, but only very rarely.

Offline syphonbyte

  • Moon Patroller
  • *****
  • Posts: 1497
  • You know what the payment is...
    • View Profile
    • The Village of Fools
Re: Saddam Hussein Condemend to Death by Hanging
« Reply #189 on: January 06, 2007, 06:46:59 pm »
I wouldn't object to legislating flamethrowers. The worst somebody could do is burn down a forest or kill someone, and you could easily do that without one. Flamethrowers are mostly for construction work on roads anyhow, and they'd likely be expensive enough that few people would buy one except to say "hey I have a flamethrower." I don't know that many people would actually use a flamethrower to murder anybody, since that seems a bit overkill. (Pardon the pun.)

In the end, the purpose of law is to protect the innocent. Properly punishing the criminals is secondary to getting them out of the way, and a lot of people would argue that rehabilitation is about as important as punishment. In some cases (murder and such), the cost or risk of rehabilitation outweighs whatever benefits there might be.

Most criminals don't commit suicide when sentenced to life in prison because life in prison is not as bad as it ought to be. People get TVs, books and all sorts of other stuff when they go in, and it's basically like an eternal vacation with the risk of being stabbed in the back by some other murderer.

If you don't execute a murderer and just put him in prison, he's given the opportunity to kill again. There are murderers serving multiple life sentences because they're hired to kill one of their prisonmates for whatever reason. These murderers are certainly not innocent, but it's quite likely that innocent people have been killed by them because they weren't executed in the first place.

Offline Bastardman

  • Robotron Automaton
  • *****
  • Posts: 1863
  • Dawn of the Final Day (24 hours remain)
    • View Profile
Re: Saddam Hussein Condemend to Death by Hanging
« Reply #190 on: January 06, 2007, 08:15:22 pm »
So you admit now that life without parole is better than execution?

I'm not sure what your point is here. First you were saying that the death sentence was right because it was more humane than life imprisonment, now you're saying that it's right because life imprisonment is "like an eternal vacation" and not a harsh enough punishment?

There are murderers serving multiple life sentences because they're hired to kill one of their prisonmates for whatever reason. These murderers are certainly not innocent, but it's quite likely that innocent people have been killed by them because they weren't executed in the first place.
Source on this claim?

I wouldn't object to legislating flamethrowers. The worst somebody could do is burn down a forest or kill someone, and you could easily do that without one. Flamethrowers are mostly for construction work on roads anyhow, and they'd likely be expensive enough that few people would buy one except to say "hey I have a flamethrower." I don't know that many people would actually use a flamethrower to murder anybody, since that seems a bit overkill. (Pardon the pun.)
So, if not at flamethrowers, where would you draw the line, exactly? Anti-tank guns? Land mines? Weapons grade plutonium?

My point is this: While anyone would agree that it is possible to kill someone with or without a gun, it's still a fact that guns make it far easier. Surely you're not going to dispute that making crimes more difficult to commit serves as a deterrent? In fact, correlations between gun ownership and violent crime have been demonstrated. So, for what good reason should gun ownership be legal?

Offline Daxx

  • Golden Axe Battler
  • *****
  • Posts: 8613
    • View Profile
Re: Saddam Hussein Condemend to Death by Hanging
« Reply #191 on: January 07, 2007, 01:28:03 am »
So, for what good reason should gun ownership be legal?

To protect against the redcoats when we come back to put down the American revolutionaries, obviously. ;D

Offline syphonbyte

  • Moon Patroller
  • *****
  • Posts: 1497
  • You know what the payment is...
    • View Profile
    • The Village of Fools
Re: Saddam Hussein Condemend to Death by Hanging
« Reply #192 on: January 07, 2007, 05:12:07 am »
So you admit now that life without parole is better than execution?
I'm saying that the way it is implemented in most nations is preferable to execution and does not punish or prevent crimes.

I'm not sure what your point is here. First you were saying that the death sentence was right because it was more humane than life imprisonment, now you're saying that it's right because life imprisonment is "like an eternal vacation" and not a harsh enough punishment?
Yes.

Source on this claim?
Many murderers in prison murder other inmates. Many rapists in prison rape other inmates.

From http://www.prisonactivist.org/pipermail/prisonact-list/2005-November/010346.html
"Capital punishment is the one arrow left in our quiver," said Assistant
U.S. Attorney Gregory Jessner, who is spearheading the Aryan Brotherhood
prosecution. "I think even a lot of people who are against the death
penalty in general would recognize that in this particular instance, where
people are committing murder repeatedly from behind bars, there is little
other option."


Extensive report on prison rape:
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/prison/report.html

As for guns, well, I guess I'll go make a topic about them.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2007, 05:25:50 am by syphonbyte »