Author Topic: Is Spore going to be like the "Matrix"?  (Read 24094 times)

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Offline sporewars

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Re: Is Spore going to be like the "Matrix"?
« Reply #105 on: October 24, 2006, 05:01:31 am »

Either youre a total fraud or youre just some lab assistant. Either way, you my friend are a liar.


You seem bitter which can't be too healthy.   

btw:  Astrophysics deals with the physics of the universe which has for all practical purposes been on my mind since I can remember.  Oh, and another thing ....You don't have to get a doctorate in robotics to be able to  build a robot, especially one which "doesn't actually exist".   You can easily find individuals all over the world to collaborate on such a project.  In fact I've talked with many roboticists who would gladly help!
« Last Edit: October 24, 2006, 06:50:46 am by sporewars »

Offline Krakow Sam

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Re: Is Spore going to be like the "Matrix"?
« Reply #106 on: October 24, 2006, 05:09:35 am »
Damn! Youve got me sussed. Yes, I'm bitter because of my unhappy childhood. Every day, as I sat in that grim, cold orphanage, I dreamed of being a Matrixologist. Unfortunately I flew of the handle one day and attacked one of the other orphans. I was expelled from the Einstein University centre for excellence in science and my life dreams were shattered. Now I work for minimum wage picking up grapes from the floor of a dingy roach-infested convenience store in Des Moines. I couldnt handle reality so i turned to spirirts, and when i could no longer afford real drink I started drinking paint stripper. The doctor says I dont have long. My only escape is picking apart the Totally Geniune claims of anonymous people on the internet who are Genuine Experts.


How easy it is to avoid answering questions when you dont see people face to face.

Edit: My understanding was that Astrophysics was the science of the universe as it applied to the Very Large. While it intimatelky relates to such large scale forces as Gravity, no-one could expect it to be realistically applied to the world of the tiny... which is why we have quantum and particle physics.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2006, 05:11:58 am by Krakow Sam »
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Offline sporewars

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Re: Is Spore going to be like the "Matrix"?
« Reply #107 on: October 24, 2006, 06:58:16 am »
Edit: My understanding was that Astrophysics was the science of the universe as it applied to the Very Large. While it intimatelky relates to such large scale forces as Gravity, no-one could expect it to be realistically applied to the world of the tiny... which is why we have quantum and particle physics.

SO you do read books.   I was beginning to wonder.  My interest in Astrophysics really has little to do with my cuurent research.   My interest in the field however is real.

 

Offline rustybrazenfire

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Re: Is Spore going to be like the "Matrix"?
« Reply #108 on: October 24, 2006, 11:40:26 am »
I am not sure if this is relevant, but this discussion reminded me of a book about AI I had to read for a class.  There are two directions you can take the argument:

1.)  A literal transition from in game AI and its procedural learning to real-world simulation via robotics.  In other words, would it be possible to build a robotic version of the creatures in game, and use similar procedural learning for them to adapt to the environt?

2.)  Would it be possible to create a hybrid real/virtual world that would allow you to directly interact with entities you have created and that learn to adapt to you and the hybrid surroundings.

One other thought:

I think one of the points was something about the AI being able to beat the player or surprise the player.  With a procedurally generated  culture I could see that being a possability.  One striking example of that was the Willosaurus intuitively knowing how to grasp a spear.  Now if you take that to the next level, with a culture of procedurally generated beings interacting with each other, the player isn't involved as much as they would be, say, in a game like the Sims where they will micro-manage what their Sims do.

===

To answer the original question no I do not think that SPORE is a step in a Matix like direction.  It is possibly an advance in readily available Artificial Intelligence, but the environment presented in the virtual world is limited enough that it has little practical application for a direct virtual/real crossover.

Offline Serdun

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Re: Is Spore going to be like the "Matrix"?
« Reply #109 on: October 24, 2006, 01:13:16 pm »
Sporewars, I'm trying to follow your arguments but there are a lot of terms you use that I don't really understand. I posted a link to the website about dimensions as a kind of question, to see if when you reffered to an alternate "dimension," you meant this or something else entirely. Also, the word "matrix" is being thrown about a lot. Once again, what do you mean by "matrix"? Do you mean the mathematical term, matrix, or something new and different? This matrix: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrix_%28mathematics%29 is nothing like this alternate universe that you've been describing (or trying to describe, as you've never really pinned down exactly what you are referencing to  :-\ .) The term "matrix" has only recently, with the release of the fictional Matrix trilogy and its respective merchandise, come to mean a kind of super-realistic virtual reality. All in all, I believe that I kind of understand what you are saying, and I also believe that some sort of (much, much more simple) computer-generated VR like what you are describing could be possible, if lots of time and effort were poured into it. But, I can't be sure about any of this, as I am still not sure what exactly you are talking about...

Oh, and rustybrazenfire, the subject you thought up might actually deserve a thread of its own.  :)
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Offline stuck

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Re: Is Spore going to be like the "Matrix"?
« Reply #110 on: October 24, 2006, 02:01:45 pm »
Next you'll be telling me you can suspend photons by emmiting special 'light frequencies' at them  ::)

Actually, we can suspend (or slow down alot) photons  by shooting them through near absolute zero rubidium. Or something along that line. But if we could suspend photons by shooting light frequencies at them, then it would be comical.  :D

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Different sound wavelengths emitted at precise intervals have the ability to speed up atoms in their natural states.

Of course they do. Sound waves are mearly atoms vibrating at certain frequencies. Normally, they move at 340 m/s, though this depends on a few things. So we can speed up atoms in their natural state. I am doing it right now. No big deal.

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In alternating the wavelengths one has the ability to suspend energy molecules.

Energy molecules? Molecules only exist in matter (though technically energy via E=MC2). So "energy molecules" do not exist. If they do, what are they, shapeless masses of dancing light? If you mean real molecules, then suspending them would yield a degree of absolute zero, which is impossible due to quantum jitters.

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It is at this precise moment whereby one could introduce electronic pulses or "digital signatures" into that static field.

Here you are trying to say that you will duplicate atoms, creating virtual atoms so to speak, by introducing digital signatures. That is what I gathered from reading previous responses involving signatures, at least. First of all, what are these "signatures", are they atomic spin? Also, how do you propose to introduce these signatures: with single electrons?

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That static field would hold in it I believe unlimited space---a parallel universe if you will whereby unlimited energy could be fed into the space.

How do you propose to keep the Law of Conservation of Energy?  I see no Maxwell's demons around, so perhaps you have one yourself?

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Two competing universes got linked together through a magnetic process--kind of positive/negative charge occurrence.  Once linked the other universe began to starve the other one of it's energy.   The rest is history, or shall I say we came in with a bang!

I see a few fundamental errors in this statement. First, you are assuming universes have magnetic fields. While this may be true, it is not true for the early universe when all the four forces were unified. Only one single force existed, and I doubt it was so dichotomous that it allowed for  such interaction. However, if this magnetism did exist, it could exist with baby universes (hypothetically) created by black holes. Black holes have charge, but this is hypothetical and does not hold with your previous statements.

Here are a few question I present then: How do we contact this universe? Is it like a "black box" computer, where we input bits of data and something comes out in some pattern?

So, in layman's terms (Serdun, and undoubtedly everyone else ;)), You create a parralel universe through quantum mechanics (not sure how well this holds to physical law), and then feed energy to it. This may have caused our own universe.

Offline jb7

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Re: Is Spore going to be like the "Matrix"?
« Reply #111 on: October 24, 2006, 02:03:03 pm »
I believe he refers to the fictional universe, "The Matrix".


Offline stuck

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Re: Is Spore going to be like the "Matrix"?
« Reply #112 on: October 24, 2006, 02:18:37 pm »
Just one quick thing to add.

By
Quote
alternating the wavelengths one has the ability to suspend energy molecules.
you may mean destructive interference.  Where you have nodal lines were (relatively speaking) nothing happens, and in the case of sound, no sound is heard. This phenomenon is well researched and does not yield alternative universes. See Young's double slit experiment for more. (This is why you should not leave an astrophysicist to do a quantum physicist's work ::))

Offline papaboom

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Re: Is Spore going to be like the "Matrix"?
« Reply #113 on: October 24, 2006, 02:20:40 pm »
This is topic is sublimely stupid. I'm no cosmologist - but I'd say ninety percent of the double-speak devoted to this topic is utter hogwash. Some of the people sound like they know what they're talking about - but the OP is just trolling.


« Last Edit: October 24, 2006, 03:18:03 pm by papaboom »

Offline Uroboros

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Re: Is Spore going to be like the "Matrix"?
« Reply #114 on: October 24, 2006, 02:34:00 pm »
Go go gadget Spore forum degeneration.

Offline Serdun

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Re: Is Spore going to be like the "Matrix"?
« Reply #115 on: October 24, 2006, 02:39:18 pm »
I believe he refers to the fictional universe, "The Matrix".



Key word- "Fictional." Up till recently, this idea didn't really exist. VR had been thought up- but this idea of the "Matrix," some alternate computer universe created in a fanciful (although reasonably OK) trilogy of movies is new, and, well, fanciful.
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Offline Fallen Angel

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Re: Is Spore going to be like the "Matrix"?
« Reply #116 on: October 24, 2006, 02:41:54 pm »
I believe you will be very disappointed if you think Spore is going to be so advanced that it will start a new era with things similar to the The Matrix.

TThe networking isp pretty standard. The program is not standard.. but that noncomformity is on your local computer, so no revolution. A major event possibly, but nope.. doesn't make the cut.
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Offline mccarty181

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Re: Is Spore going to be like the "Matrix"?
« Reply #117 on: October 24, 2006, 02:53:04 pm »
This is topic is sublimely stupid. I'm no cosmologist - but I'd say ninety percent of the double-speak devoted to this topic is utter hogwash.




most of what he said, although technical, does have something behind it, even if it is hard to understand for most people ;D
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Offline papaboom

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Re: Is Spore going to be like the "Matrix"?
« Reply #118 on: October 24, 2006, 03:22:12 pm »
This is topic is sublimely stupid. I'm no cosmologist - but I'd say ninety percent of the double-speak devoted to this topic is utter hogwash.




most of what he said, although technical, does have something behind it, even if it is hard to understand for most people ;D

If you're referring to sporewars posts then you'd be incorrect. Wavelengths is not two words for instance. "Something behind it" ? Maybe - if by something you mean total crap.

All pseudoscience has to borrow a superficial amount of real science to assume the veneer of credibility.

Offline gbCerberus

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Re: Is Spore going to be like the "Matrix"?
« Reply #119 on: October 24, 2006, 03:45:09 pm »
To answer the OP's question: No. Spore is about content creation and the exploration of the "Powers of Ten" / "Long Zoom" from the Very Small to the Very Large (physically and in conceptual scope: DNA -> psychology -> sociology), while a virtual reality is about simulating a digital world or universe. Spore will not be a shared experience, per se. Yes, content will be cross-pollinated, but the player won't be able to interact with others. I can sort of see how it can be used as a stepping stone toward a world-wide virtual reality, but there are better examples out there.

Some suggestions for you, Sporewars:

1. Stop being so arrogant. You said Einstein was a science n00b. You also implied and commented on people's inferior intelligence un-flinchingly (some of them were just trying to understand what you're trying to convey); while on the other hand some posters have... expectedly... been dubious of you and your idea, mainly because you've made yourself out to be a whack-job.

I do identify with you somewhat. From an early age I tought myself concepts such as basic biology and astronomy. I don't have a degree in anything yet, but I'm working towards a career in biotechnology. Recently a lesson on operon attenuation for the biosynthesis of tryptophan blew my mind and made me seriously consider Intelligent Design for a few minutes. Ribosome as a sensory organ?! Regulation based on the physical nature of the mRNA molecule woven into the the message's leader sequence?!

It was an interesting night.  ;)

Besides, if you want to publish your idea and have it accepted by the scientific community you're going to have to stand up to peer-review anyway. For example, at one time it was generally accepted that molecules were two-dimentional, to say otherwise opened you up to ridicule. It took a long time and a lot of blood, sweat, and tears to convince people of the concepts we now take for granted. This is one of the reasons why the un-fair criticism of scientists and their sometimes life-long work really, really irks me.

2. Look at Darwinia. If you're interested in the creation of digital universes (or... whatever...), the game's story will blow your mind.
http://www.darwinia.co.uk/

3. Read Diaspora by Greg Egan.

Quote from: Cynthia Ward, Amazon.com Editorial Reviewer
In the 30th century, few humans remain on Earth. Most have downloaded themselves into robot bodies or solar-system-spanning virtual realities, escaping death--or so they believe, until the collision of nearby neutron stars threatens life in every form.

Diaspora, written by Hugo Award and John W. Campbell Memorial Award winner Greg Egan, transcends millennia and universes in the tradition of Poul Anderson's Tau Zero, Bruce Sterling's Schismatrix Plus, Camille Flammarion's Omega, and Olaf Stapledon's Last and First Men. Diaspora is packed with mind-bending ideas extrapolated from cutting-edge cosmology, physics, and consciousness theory to create an astonishing hard-SF novel inhabited by very strange yet always believable characters. Diaspora is why people read SF.

I've read it. The end is mind-bending and, as I thought at the time, unfulfilling. Upon reflection it makes a lot of sense. Imagine reaching for Infinity and at the same time realizing the ultimate futility. Cryptic, I know.

Anyway, it seems right up your alley.

http://www.amazon.com/Diaspora-Novel-Greg-Egan/dp/0061057983

4. MMO's have more in common with The Matrix (in the non movie-based sense) than Spore because Spore is a "MSO" (massively single-player online) game, try talking in their off-topic forums about your idea and people might see the similarity better.


Oh, and in response to

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No need to feel like there is a drought.   Certainly there are things we can do to keep everyone occupied.

 ...

btw:  Has anyone thought about creating a "creature profile" that can be emailed to others.  This way you can send info about your creature to other individuals.  It sure beats having someone going to a "sterile" wiki type page to get this info. 

There is a media blackout, an information drought. Lack of new information + idle hands  = the potential for over-hype and wild speculation about the game.

Creature profiles are going to be built into the game, in the form of Spore-pedia cards complete with stats, location, and author. As for being able to trade them with other players or the form that trade might take, see my above statement about the potential for over-hype and wild speculation. (Disclaimer: haven't seen anything new about this because I haven't been looking lately. If anyone would like to inform or correct me, please do.)



And by the way mccarty181, your avatar scares the bejeesus out of me, I don't know why.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2006, 04:42:12 pm by gbCerberus »
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