Author Topic: Fanfic PnP?  (Read 15681 times)

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Offline Hydromancerx

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Re: Fanfic PnP?
« Reply #30 on: August 12, 2006, 04:26:09 am »
I will help with what i can though i think we need to replace d20's magic with more technological means. I have not played d20 modern but of know of it.

I was also thinking rahter than by species we should make it by part. For instance diffrent feet would give diffrent speeds, or diffrent claws give diffrent dammages, etc. Do it like Spore would.

Offline Daxx

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Re: Fanfic PnP?
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2006, 04:27:58 am »
I was also thinking rahter than by species we should make it by part. For instance diffrent feet would give diffrent speeds, or diffrent claws give diffrent dammages, etc. Do it like Spore would.

Interesting. I reallly like that idea, but it raises serious issues with game balance. No doubt I'd be able to develop a system to work that concept, however I couldn't promise it was balanced unless we undertook serious playtesting.

Offline Hydromancerx

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Re: Fanfic PnP?
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2006, 04:32:23 am »
I was also thinking rahter than by species we should make it by part. For instance diffrent feet would give diffrent speeds, or diffrent claws give diffrent dammages, etc. Do it like Spore would.

Interesting. I reallly like that idea, but it raises serious issues with game balance. No doubt I'd be able to develop a system to work that concept, however I couldn't promise it was balanced unless we undertook serious playtesting.

Just have them worth DNA points like they will have in spore. :D Then have a limit to how many DNA points you can buy.

Offline Daxx

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Re: Fanfic PnP?
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2006, 04:37:25 am »
I was also thinking rahter than by species we should make it by part. For instance diffrent feet would give diffrent speeds, or diffrent claws give diffrent dammages, etc. Do it like Spore would.

Interesting. I reallly like that idea, but it raises serious issues with game balance. No doubt I'd be able to develop a system to work that concept, however I couldn't promise it was balanced unless we undertook serious playtesting.

Just have them worth DNA points like they will have in spore. :D Then have a limit to how many DNA points you can buy.

That's obvious. What's difficult is assigning useful values to various parts, and yet allowing players to create any number of different useful combinations.

Offline Hydromancerx

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Re: Fanfic PnP?
« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2006, 04:49:53 am »
I guess then all you can do is try and test it. Make some parts give them values and test them. See if they are too powerful or too weak. I am sure people will find the flaws in them. People tend to look for loop holes and stuff anywho.

Offline Daxx

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Re: Fanfic PnP?
« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2006, 04:56:34 am »
I've had an idea which may be very very useful.

So we make this in two seperate parts. We first design the game system (how tech and classes and the like work), and have that as one project. We include fanfic races in this. We secondly design a system which allows you to create your own creatures, and this is a second and seperate project. However, each of the created fanfic races must fit seamlessly into this system (as a nod to game balance), meaning that we must design these two projects concurrently.

What do people think of this? If (and I'm not thinking it will happen yet, but we need to make allowances for these things) this goes commercial, we would certainly want to release these as seperate but linked products (the reasoning being twofold - an expansion pack makes more money; and those familiar with the game then buy and use the creature creation system once they're used to the game system, allowing newbies access to the game without making it overcomplicated to learn).

Offline Mr. Consideration

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Re: Fanfic PnP?
« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2006, 05:08:46 am »
I've had an idea which may be very very useful.

So we make this in two seperate parts. We first design the game system (how tech and classes and the like work), and have that as one project. We include fanfic races in this. We secondly design a system which allows you to create your own creatures, and this is a second and seperate project. However, each of the created fanfic races must fit seamlessly into this system (as a nod to game balance), meaning that we must design these two projects concurrently.

What do people think of this? If (and I'm not thinking it will happen yet, but we need to make allowances for these things) this goes commercial, we would certainly want to release these as seperate but linked products (the reasoning being twofold - an expansion pack makes more money; and those familiar with the game then buy and use the creature creation system once they're used to the game system, allowing newbies access to the game without making it overcomplicated to learn).
So you can use the pre-created "Template" races or create your own? Sounds awesome.
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Offline Hydromancerx

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Re: Fanfic PnP?
« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2006, 05:22:40 am »
I've had an idea which may be very very useful.

So we make this in two seperate parts. We first design the game system (how tech and classes and the like work), and have that as one project. We include fanfic races in this. We secondly design a system which allows you to create your own creatures, and this is a second and seperate project. However, each of the created fanfic races must fit seamlessly into this system (as a nod to game balance), meaning that we must design these two projects concurrently.

What do people think of this? If (and I'm not thinking it will happen yet, but we need to make allowances for these things) this goes commercial, we would certainly want to release these as seperate but linked products (the reasoning being twofold - an expansion pack makes more money; and those familiar with the game then buy and use the creature creation system once they're used to the game system, allowing newbies access to the game without making it overcomplicated to learn).
So you can use the pre-created "Template" races or create your own? Sounds awesome.

Sounds like a good plan. Also we shpuld reverse test existing fan fic creatures to see if their parts are really balanced or not.

Offline Daxx

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Re: Fanfic PnP?
« Reply #38 on: August 12, 2006, 05:45:27 am »
Sounds like a good plan. Also we shpuld reverse test existing fan fic creatures to see if their parts are really balanced or not.

Yeah, that's what I meant. That would be why you'd need to develop the creature creation system alongside the development of the fanfic creatures.

Our first look should really be at the mechanics of the game. I'll do some reading on D20 modern and futuristic stuff to see how we can integrate technology into the game as seamlessly as possible. If anyone has suggestions, don't hesistate to throw them in here.

Offline Yokto

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Re: Fanfic PnP?
« Reply #39 on: August 12, 2006, 06:37:22 am »
The most impotent thing when we think about species is that we never assume that all species are equal. DnD have a several solutions to this. If anyone gen get there hand on Savage species it shows how different creature can be play in the same campaign even if there very unbalanced. The Draconomicon could also give a few hints how to build a system to asymmetric power as it show how to play dragons which are of course a lot more powerfull then most monsters.

That is not to say that a point by system is bad. No it can be a good tool even with Asymmetric races. a race with 10 point could be consider lowpower wile a race with 100 points high power. Therefore these races would get different ECL. Again more info on this can be found in Savage species. The point by system can form a base on how to add character races.
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Offline Daxx

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Re: Fanfic PnP?
« Reply #40 on: August 12, 2006, 06:42:35 am »
Very good point.

Offline Mason11987

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Re: Fanfic PnP?
« Reply #41 on: August 12, 2006, 06:47:49 am »
I've had an idea which may be very very useful.

So we make this in two seperate parts. We first design the game system (how tech and classes and the like work), and have that as one project. We include fanfic races in this. We secondly design a system which allows you to create your own creatures, and this is a second and seperate project. However, each of the created fanfic races must fit seamlessly into this system (as a nod to game balance), meaning that we must design these two projects concurrently.

What do people think of this? If (and I'm not thinking it will happen yet, but we need to make allowances for these things) this goes commercial, we would certainly want to release these as seperate but linked products (the reasoning being twofold - an expansion pack makes more money; and those familiar with the game then buy and use the creature creation system once they're used to the game system, allowing newbies access to the game without making it overcomplicated to learn).
So you can use the pre-created "Template" races or create your own? Sounds awesome.

Sounds like a good plan. Also we shpuld reverse test existing fan fic creatures to see if their parts are really balanced or not.

The fact is that it would be be impossible to break each fanfic creature down into parts and have those parts equal anywhere near the same thing.

So here is the situation:

Lets take for example my swiftick, while obviously not the most powerful creature they have one of the most part full bodies around (at least on these lists).  If you were to break this down into parts (as I'm assuming you are doing), and give each part some specified value.  I imagine my value would end up higher then the Torpal for example, and DEFINITLY it would end up higher then the ViS, but I didn't intend (nor should it be so) that my creature would be more powerful then either of these.

So my suggestion:

Go through as many creatures as possible (regardless of their interest in the game).  I offer the list of concept creature images and of course in game creature images for this job. Deconstruct them and give their body parts value (this doesn't need to be TOO precise), if they are close, match the parts (like the Torpal and Swiftick tail for example) so there are less overall parts (there will be A LOT).  When you have deconstructed as many ideas as possible then the game can begin.  Have sign ups, and as each person signs up, have them find the parts that create their creature and list them along with the statistics of those parts (perhaps I can make a program to browse these?).  Inevitably all creatures created through this system and all creatures created prior to this system will have very very varied point values.  These point values should be used for something "invisible".  There are many RPG traits for invisible features, and I think this is the best route.  Since having a DEF stat that people can add invisible points to will end up with possible a ViS which is actually a defensive beast and that's not only stupid, but against the point of the game.  Have the parts reflect some stats (HP, STR, DEF, DEX/AGL/SPD, Accuracy (for shooting weapons?), and other things), and have the extra points add to invisible stats (INT, Resistance (to tech-age magical stuff, like making resistance against viruses?), and there will need to be plenty of other things, perhaps abilities and skills?).  People won't spend their points immediatly, but when every race has joined, then the creature with the highest # of part points is found, and the cap for total points is set somewhere higher then that (maybe 150%, but that's a game balance issue).  Each creatures part points + total points must equal no more then the cap.  If the effects of statistics (and abilities and skills) can be balanced well enough, this would allow completly unbalanced creature types to play the game together.  I believe balancing stats, abilities and skills would be much easier then balancing creatures.

Of course each creature can pick their class, and if you can't balance them, just have some of them cost more invisible points.

And Yokto posted while I was posting, but his idea sounds solid as well.
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Offline Daxx

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Re: Fanfic PnP?
« Reply #42 on: August 12, 2006, 06:52:57 am »
Obviously that's why point values would be assigned carefully, or that there would be some system whereby a part doesn't give you a certain stat but a combination of parts do (more like it would work in the real world).

Example:

Movement is governed by the locomotive limb parts themselves, the strength of those limbs, the creature's limits of nervous co-ordination and the weight of the creature.

To move fast, you would have to be light (sacrificing other parts and maybe size) and be built for running (which would cost you more points). If you wanted to be big and heavy, or couldn't afford adaptations for running, then you would have to accept slower movement.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2006, 06:55:40 am by Daxx »

Offline Mason11987

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Re: Fanfic PnP?
« Reply #43 on: August 12, 2006, 06:56:08 am »
That's a good point, and perhaps invisible points can also be used for equipment? Like the ViS could spend some of the points they saved on legs to buy something that moves them around faster?  This would balance the game and give more options for people.

Your edit - Of course, and something like that could be done in a simple enough way by having parts not only give positive attributes but negative ones.

If you add massive wings to your creature, of course you're flying stat (for example) would improve, but if you are very heavy, you will lose a lot of your flying stat but gain a lot of defense.  If you choose to add strong and heavy legs you will even more lessen your flying ability.  Each part can have many pluses and many minuses as long as of course they add up to a sum total >0 lol.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2006, 06:59:48 am by Mason11987 »
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Offline Daxx

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Re: Fanfic PnP?
« Reply #44 on: August 12, 2006, 06:58:35 am »
That's a good point, and perhaps invisible points can also be used for equipment? Like the ViS could spend some of the points they saved on legs to buy something that moves them around faster?  This would balance the game and give more options for people.

That would probably be something ingame, and seperate to the creature creation itself. However, in DnD races get racial benefits or feats to help balance them out - you could spend evolution points to give you those (like innate bonuses to skills or something else). Equipment might work, but I would personally use that as a last resort - it would be better in my opinion to make the creature creation system reasonably self-contained.