Author Topic: Monkeys with guns  (Read 10535 times)

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Offline Zellman

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Re: monkeys with guns?
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2006, 12:55:14 pm »

That's pretty much what I gathered, except two things about the electricity before fire.

First, Fire was already invented, it wasn't controlled.

Likewise, If fire was not controlled, how could we have ignited the gun powder.
Think about another type of propulsion, say one that uses pressure, or something that uses a chemical mixture to propel the projectile.  maybe your creature breathes hydrogen or something, a firearm in a hydrogen atmosphere would be lethal to all involved, for example.

TheNecromonicon

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Re: monkeys with guns?
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2006, 12:59:02 pm »
I never said guns before fire. Stop twisting my words.

Offline lolasan

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Re: monkeys with guns?
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2006, 01:03:52 pm »
Sorry TheNecromonicon. I combined two of them. I guess in essence... Fire can still be used if not controlled.

And to Zellman: That is pretty much how the modern gun works. the gunpowder meets with an igniter or something when the trigger is pulled, causing a spark. The spark causes a fire, which tries to escape or something.... thus propelling the bullet.

Note I got all that from Mythbusters "Ice Bullet" episode, so I'm very likely to be wrong. :-[
And with this post, I've opened yet another can of worms.

Friend: I propose a knife fight to decide

Me: But you're the only one of us who carries a knife.

Friend: Correction, four.

Offline Zellman

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Re: monkeys with guns?
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2006, 01:19:15 pm »
I am just thinking about the following. 
I hope that our planets will be able to have strange non-oxygen atmospheres and still support life.  like the Hydrogen atmosphere I used in my example.  So a race would have to develop without fire, they would have to generate electricity some other way, like solely on water, or wind power.  An interesting thought: a whole race of enviromentalists.  ha!

Offline gbCerberus

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Re: monkeys with guns?
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2006, 01:22:14 pm »
Or even stellar environment. In The Ellimist Chronicles the main character's civilization invented something that ended up being superior to radio waves because the background radiation/interference from the close-by galactic core was too intense.
"You can only see as far as you think."

Offline Daxx

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Re: monkeys with guns?
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2006, 01:23:08 pm »
The question of fire and technological development has been raised before, concerning underwater sapient races.

TheNecromonicon

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Re: monkeys with guns?
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2006, 01:29:58 pm »
Or even stellar environment. In The Ellimist Chronicles the main character's civilization invented something that ended up being superior to radio waves because the background radiation/interference from the close-by galactic core was too intense.

The Ellimist Chronicles FTW! I loved Animorphs. I still have EVERY book.

Offline gbCerberus

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Re: monkeys with guns?
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2006, 01:31:33 pm »
I have nearly every book. Spore reminds me a lot of the 'Galactic Civilizations' game they played. I hope no real aliens see YouTube videos of us doing Bad Things in Spore: they'd think we were galactic overlords and come to wipe us out! ;)

Its hard to not be land animal -centric and Earth-centric about the development of technological civilization. I find it difficult to see the leap from something similar to dolphins or squids (or any other "smart" underwater organism) to domed, flooded colonies (with structures made of metal, plastic, and glass) on an alien planet. (Although thinking about it again, they'd colonize the oceans, so their idea of a good planet for colonization would be differet from ours. Not by much though, we'd both be looking for liquid water.)

The aliens in The Abyss came from a planet with similar conditions as the bottom of our oceans - cold, dark, and intense pressure. I wonder how they did it...
« Last Edit: July 27, 2006, 01:41:46 pm by gbCerberus »
"You can only see as far as you think."

Offline Uroboros

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Re: monkeys with guns?
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2006, 08:21:33 pm »
I'd like to have the freedom to create electricity before fire, gun powder before bows and arrows, and computers before paper.
How do you propose they forge the metal wiring for a electrical cord without knowledge of fire?
Why do you assume you need to forge metal wiring for computers, or even have to use fire to forge it? Using known science and human abilities as your only starting point limits everything before we even start. We're talking about totally alien creatures, and they'll be in a totally alien environment. Assuming the need for fire, or even the need for metal, or even the need for computers is a bad step. Do underwater civilisations automatically forfeit all technological advancements, then? Imagination is needed. This is a game.

Even using the knowledge we have gathered in reality, we can mock up scenarios with a little creativity. An underwater species who can discharge biologically generated electricity, learning to weld before they even develop a real culture. Where swinging swords and throwing spears are ineffective as combat, they resort to 'hand to hand' using their natural weapons, leaving technology entirely to experimentation and discovery. Whilst their species is behind in combat, they learn how to use their electricity to manipulate certain kinds of sponge-like creatures, and implement those creatures as a base component in their technology, and even grow and harvest them like wood. Eventually their technlogy grows, and they develop their first real weapon of use, a 'firearm', a harpoon-gun, or perhaps a magnifier and focuser to their own discharges. In their line of existance, they skipped on sticks and rocks, clubs, swords and shields and even crossbows, and their first step on the weapons front was a discharge weapon or precision harpoon rifle. This is an example I just came up with on the spot. If in this empty little abyss of an existance does contain other intelligent life-forms, do you really expect them to be star trek-like bipedal air-breathing similarly cultured beings? Through ourselves and our planet, we have identified types of life, not confirmed we know of the only forms life may take.

I know I slipped off on a rambling spree, but I find it strange how people keep referring back to the human blueprints for nearly everything, when we're playing the "what if there was a race with a million arms and lived on an electric pink planet with 3 moons" game? :3

Offline Asheron2K

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Re: monkeys with guns?
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2006, 08:35:40 pm »
Don't forget about light based computing (it would be quite easy to build a light based transistor)

if someone really wanted they could probably make a primitive computer based on water.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2006, 08:42:49 pm by Asheron2K »

Offline lolasan

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Re: monkeys with guns?
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2006, 08:05:44 am »
Don't forget about light based computing (it would be quite easy to build a light based transistor)

if someone really wanted they could probably make a primitive computer based on water.

You mean like quantum computers?

(Wasn't a correction, just me trying to clear it up for myself)
And with this post, I've opened yet another can of worms.

Friend: I propose a knife fight to decide

Me: But you're the only one of us who carries a knife.

Friend: Correction, four.

Offline Daxx

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Re: monkeys with guns?
« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2006, 08:12:36 am »
Don't forget about light based computing (it would be quite easy to build a light based transistor)

if someone really wanted they could probably make a primitive computer based on water.

You mean like quantum computers?

(Wasn't a correction, just me trying to clear it up for myself)

No, quantum computers use quantum entanglement. Light based computers just use photons.

Offline Brutus

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Re: monkeys with guns?
« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2006, 08:18:04 am »
I'd like to have the freedom to create electricity before fire, gun powder before bows and arrows, and computers before paper.


well, matches were invented after lighters were, i live where matches were invented
Never mind your own business.

Offline lolasan

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Re: monkeys with guns?
« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2006, 09:02:22 am »
Don't forget about light based computing (it would be quite easy to build a light based transistor)

if someone really wanted they could probably make a primitive computer based on water.

You mean like quantum computers?

(Wasn't a correction, just me trying to clear it up for myself)

No, quantum computers use quantum entanglement. Light based computers just use photons.

Thanks for clearing it up!  :)
And with this post, I've opened yet another can of worms.

Friend: I propose a knife fight to decide

Me: But you're the only one of us who carries a knife.

Friend: Correction, four.

Offline Uroboros

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Re: monkeys with guns?
« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2006, 09:10:45 am »
There goes that quantum gremlin again.