Author Topic: "I saw it first" -- how will downloading from the main database work exactly?  (Read 11540 times)

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Offline Pinstar

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Just a few things of confusion here on what version of the multiuniverse you get.


We know for a fact that what you upload never changes based on what others do to it. So if you upload your planet with your loveingly crafted race on it, and somebody else vaproizes it, your race will unharmed in your version of the world. But what about for a 3rd person.


Let us say there are 3 players.

Player 1 creates and uploads planet "A" to the universal database.
Player 2 and 3 download the database and get planet "A" added to their universes.
Player 2 finds planet "A" with his UFO and blows it up, player 3 doesn't search that part of the universe that day.

A day passes and the database uploads/downloads itself with everybody.
Player 3 finally finds the star system that contains planet "A" When his UFO arrives, will he find planet "A" or space dust?



Next scenerio:

Player 1 creates Planet "B"
Player 2 downloads the universal database, adding Planet "B" to their world.
Player 1 later decides that planet "B" was a mistake and vaporizes their own world, then uploads the data to the server.

When player 2 visits player 1's star system, will they find planet "B" or stardust?

Last question
Player 1 creates planet "C"
Player 2 downloads the database. He finds planet "C" and vaporizes it.
Player 1 (who's planet "C" is still intact) playes his game awhile, adds some new species and civlizations to the planet, and re-uploads it to the universal server.
Player 2 downloads the universal server's data again to update his world. He visits the star system of player 1 again.

Will he find the space dust he left behind, or an un-blown-up and updated planet "C"?


I don't thinky anybody really knows these answers, but I think its a good topic of discussion. Steve, do you have any information you could share on this subject?


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Offline Fireblade

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My understanding is:

Scenario A:

Player 3 finds the species (is sharing planets confirmed?) just fine, doing its thing. They each have their own copy of the species, so what happens on player 2's computer doesn't effect player 3's.

Scenario B:

Player 2 should find species/planet B just fine, unless for some reason it was downloaded again by player 2.

Scenario C:

I would hope the game tracks these things! Player 2 should find a nice asteroid belt, instead of a whole new planet.

Offline RealmRPGer

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Well, as far as I know, there is no manual uploading. It's all automatic. Also, the creatures get stored in a creature database apart from the planet database.

Realize that the game has to download creatures to inhabit YOUR planet. That means creatures from someone else's planet must be taken and put on yours. Therefore, in scenario C the creatures would be uploaded and could potentially be downloaded to populate a random planet.

Offline vbGamer

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If creature (and planets?) are shared, I don't think it would affect the local copy. Suppose someone had a planet with a 9 billion year old start (it's about to go nova in a billion years). Player A downloads it, and plays on it. It wouldn't be too much fun if the origanal planet was pulled into a black hole, or sent flying into another star when player A loads thier game up.

It'll probably be like this:


- Player A creates a planet, a nice desert world with huge cliffs.
- The planet is uploaded into the planet database. (Perhaps as an early stage planet).

Think about this side sceanrio now:

- It becomes a wildly popular planet, so popular in fact, that maybe 30,000 players use it. The client side has their planet in various stages from multi-celluar to space stage. One planet happens to be too close to a star that goes NOVA. If this planet were to "update" back into the database, then there'd be 30,000 unhappy players.

What probably would happen is this:

- 30,000 players download the planet, and one person destroys it.
- 29,999 players still get to enjoy that planet.

It would probably be the same as species, and the database schema might look something like this:

[ MASTER PLAYER CREATION TABLE ]

Player_ID   Planet_ID  Species_ID

Player_ID - The player who created the content.
Planet_ID - The ID of the planet this player created.
Species_ID - The ID of the species this player created.

[ TABLE FOR PLANET ID 42093 ] (I think it might be better to create a new table for each planet just so the server doesn't have to sort through millions of records every hour.) Not sure how they'll do this though...

Player_ID - Foreign key for the user database. This let's the player know who used their planet.
Planet_Stage - What stage of development the planet is in.
Planet_Status - Alive/Dead (with the cause - star went nova, destroyed by a UFO, black hole, etc.)
Num_Creatures - The number of creatures on the planet
.
.
.

The player could see something like this:

23423   Tribal   Alive         50
10092   UFO   Alive         13
10849   Animal   Alive         55
31342   Cell   Alive         3
00182   N/A   Dead (Pulverized)   -

They'd see that one planet didn't make it, but it doesn't affect the origanal planet. Think about it, if late into the lifecycle of the game (7 years down the road let's say), someone could come along, and blow up every single planet in the game (maybe in the millions - you never know). Or, someone has hundreds of popular planets in their universe, and when their universe dies, all those planets would die. Or how about this - your species might thrive on your planet, but die on another. If it dies there, everyone dies. That's not fun. It's a gamebreaker, since it makes other players not want to play (or even download planets/species).

I think the database is going to serve as a storage database, not as full fledged game data that updates everyone's computer to remove any destroyed planets. In other words, client side, you might still have a planet or species that's been destroyed elsewhere.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2005, 07:39:18 pm by vbGamer »

Offline Pinstar

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If that is the case, then does that mean you will never EVER encounter a planet that has been vaporized...unless of course you yourself vaporized it? (and even then, you'll be the only one to see that planet as vaporized?)


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Offline Dust

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Its what you see and have tracked as destroyed and not destroyed, its that simple.
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Offline Areku

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brings up an interesting point, becaus eif you remeber, in the GDC presentation Will finds a Solar system with only one planet and says something like "Well there must have been an accident" meaning either
A. he previously blew the planet up
B. planets CAN undergo natural planet killing catastrophies
C. AI UFO's do exist(or at least AI controlled superweapons)
 ???

Offline Bios Revision

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^ Or the game downloaded a solar system that contained an exploded planet that was destroyed by another player.

Offline Behumat

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Or maybe the Amish got there first. Hmmmmm ???



Offline Areku

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^ Or the game downloaded a solar system that contained an exploded planet that was destroyed by another player.

hmmm will the game really download entire star systems? I only though it would download player created creatures/buildings etc.

Offline Dust

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Where did you see that Areku???
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Offline Dust

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This isn't something to worry about as the Devs will know how it works, as long as it works i'm okay with it.
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Offline Bios Revision

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hmmm will the game really download entire star systems? I only though it would download player created creatures/buildings etc.

I feel like I heard that somewhere, although I might be wrong.

Offline Areku

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Where did you see that Areku???

see what? I was just replying to Bios Revision's post, I was just stating that I didn't think the game would download entire solar systems

This isn't something to worry about as the Devs will know how it works, as long as it works i'm okay with it.

exactly

hmmm will the game really download entire star systems? I only though it would download player created creatures/buildings etc.

I feel like I heard that somewhere, although I might be wrong.

that would be cool, although in a finite universe, I don't see how continuously downloading star sytems would work, I always assumed you had a game with all planets already defined, and the game populated them with creatures/building made by other players

Offline s0lidmetal

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You guys are freaking idiots.  This game is not an MMO dummies!

You make a creature/plant/building/planet and it is stored in a FILE and uploaded to the INTERNET and you never touch it again.

If people download it, it is added to THEIR game and does NOT reflect on you at all.  If you destroy your planet after it was uploaded, hundreds of people will still have it stored on their computer.

Think about it like this.  If you buy a gameboy, and Nintendo goes out of business, does the gameboy disappear?  No!

Unless some sort of multiplayer mode is implemented there won't be any pvp interaction.

Offline Areku

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You guys are freaking idiots. This game is not an MMO dummies!

You make a creature/plant/building/planet and it is stored in a FILE and uploaded to the INTERNET and you never touch it again.

If people download it, it is added to THEIR game and does NOT reflect on you at all. If you destroy your planet after it was uploaded, hundreds of people will still have it stored on their computer.

Think about it like this. If you buy a gameboy, and Nintendo goes out of business, does the gameboy disappear? No!

Unless some sort of multiplayer mode is implemented there won't be any pvp interaction.

no need to get so upset, I think what most people are talking about is the question of whether or not updated versions of your planet are constantly uploaded to the net, then redownloaded by others so that they have the most current version OR if it just downloads it ONCE and never again(assuming planets are downloadable) we know its not a MMO, it has been said MANY MANY times, on a side note, we also know its NOT an RTS  :D

Offline Dust

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It tracks what exists and if you destroy it, its marked as destroyed for you.
Evolution?
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Offline Areku

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personally I don't think you download planets, although I may be/probably am wrong.
It tracks what exists and if you destroy it, its marked as destroyed for you.
thats also what I think, you download a planet/creautre/building once and then you mess around with it in your game, and will not be affected by what anyone else does to it in their game, so regardless of whther the guy down the street destroys planetA, it is never uploaded again so it will never overwrite your version

Offline Dreyfuss

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I'm thinking more along the lines of the game tracks what systems you've seen and what you've done to them, so if you found a system created by another player, it'd be in the state it was in the last time you downloaded it.  If you did nothing at all the game makes no notes on how you acted toward that system, and continues updating it normally.  The moment you have any interaction with the system, the game records that action, marks such-and-such system as being manipulated and doesn't upload new versions anymore, and then turns the system over to the computer, applying the AI that came with the system the last time it was updated and continuing from there.  In other words, as long as you don't mess with a paticular system, it will keep on updating as the player who owns it advances, but if you do anything to it (such as messing with the natives' genes, blowing up planets, etc.) the game "turns on" the AI that player molded by his playing style and cuts off any further updates, making the creatures on the system continue to behave normally, but still be affected by your actions, instead of suddenly reverting to their old form during the next update.

I think there should also be an option to "create new galaxy" where the game adds another galaxy with the newest versions of all the planets you blew up so you can have fun with those creatures again.

Offline Jayce

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You guys are freaking idiots.  This game is not an MMO dummies!

You make a creature/plant/building/planet and it is stored in a FILE and uploaded to the INTERNET and you never touch it again.

If people download it, it is added to THEIR game and does NOT reflect on you at all.  If you destroy your planet after it was uploaded, hundreds of people will still have it stored on their computer.

Think about it like this.  If you buy a gameboy, and Nintendo goes out of business, does the gameboy disappear?  No!

Unless some sort of multiplayer mode is implemented there won't be any pvp interaction.

That's a bit harsh. We still have 18 months of these discussions to look forward to, you will have to be careful that you don't do yourself an injury if anymore silly questions appear  ;)

I can see where the OP is coming from but nowhere has it been said that you can upload planets, only stuff you create in the editor which is creatures, buildings and vehicles so the question is mute however over the next few weeks we will get a lot more info from Steve which will help us hopefully.

I can't see planets being things you upload / download as it would be harder to avoid instances where 2 planets exist in the same space. What I mean is with the stuff we know you can download it appears in some sort of storage area (a guess) and you choose where to plonk it. I guess the same could be done for planets but I can't see that being the case though we are all guessing here so you never know.

 

Offline Bios Revision

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You guys are freaking idiots.  This game is not an MMO dummies!

Who said it was?

Offline xcoldcloudx

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yeah solidmetal u tell them!! ;D

Offline Dust

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there was no need for that
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Offline xcoldcloudx

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i know im just bored and spore depressed

Offline Sporeaholicomg99

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In every case my friend the player will find the planet as it was downloaded from the database unless of course he has already tampered with it. in which case he will find it as he left it.

going back to this whole MMO thing it is a completely no multiplayer game. anyone who understands the concept of parallel universe knows what i mean your universe cannot be changed by anyone but yourself there is no intervention by any other players. the computer simply downloads the species/buildings/vehicles/planets it needs to complete the ecosystem

And whats there is yours to manipulate as you wish


EDIT: sorry for the poor grammar it should read 'it is a completely non - multiplayer game just in case low lifes resort insulting based on my use of basic grammar just a bit of a rant there lol
« Last Edit: May 30, 2005, 02:13:54 pm by Sporeaholicomg99 »



Offline s0lidmetal

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I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote my last post.  Just ignore it...


You fools!  ;D

Offline ripperrim

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i also thought it would just download creature types which really makes alot more sense than the whole planet.

Offline Spinal232

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thats what i was thinking as well
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Offline Gauphastus

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Well, from what I've heard and read, you do download all the other creatures that are uploaded (maybe not all, but enough) so that they can populate any already generated worlds.
But when Will went to another solar system in the video, he said something like "this is where you're seeing worlds created by other players". That planet was where that player's creation was born.
So I guess when you visit certain other zones, hell maybe all of the others zones, you'll run into other player-made civilizations and "their" planets.

I don't know. I'm having a real brain freeze for Spore today. I think I told so many people about it, the knowledge took a break and went on vacation.  ???
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Offline Oviraptor

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I think it only does the whole planet if the sentience on it. Otherwise it's either barren or just randomly selected cretures (that form a balanced ecosystem) from various players.

Offline s0lidmetal

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Or the other civ is only advanced as you are.