Author Topic: Religion, items, and government...  (Read 7384 times)

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Offline MorgothTheEnemy

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Re: Religion, items, and government...
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2006, 08:51:20 pm »
Back on topic,

I hope there will be religion in the game partly because my Grackens are heavily based on it. Not only that but government would be interesting because you could use it as a way to govern your colonies like when you assign the auto control option in civ where the computer acts like a governer while your away. The government settings could be simple, Social and Economic scales or sliders, that have different strengths and weaknesses.
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Offline slugfly

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Re: Religion, items, and government...
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2006, 09:15:25 pm »
Personally, I'd rather just have it the way it is and let the extra detailed features be added in Spore 2.

I'm fully against sequels.  There's no reason at all (especially when using largely on-the-fly generated graphics) that a game can't be upgraded instead of tossed aside for a sequel.  Everything you could want in a sequel could be added with an expansion (this includes a new 'story' and area, new features, ugpraded graphics and sounds, new menu features, etc.) and you could actually make the game much larger and better with an expansion than a sequel because an expansion doesn't need to remake all of the original stuff again.

Offline MorgothTheEnemy

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Re: Religion, items, and government...
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2006, 09:22:24 pm »
yeh but it takes lots of work to change whole system procedures.

Plus sequels give you a fresh feeling not so much in Spore because it doesnt have a storyline but also sequels make lots of money. I like sequels but I appreciate expansion packs too. (warcraft needs to continue now)
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Ag Burzum-Ishi Krimpatul!!!

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Offline jarnomiedema

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Re: Religion, items, and government...
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2006, 02:57:52 am »
That IS a picture of recruitment tools specifically, you know that right? ;)

Haha.. Yeah, I know.. But recruitment for what? The army? Your religion? Your civilization?

I think the most likely option is the army or raiding parties, but that altar-thingie just gave off some 'religious' vibes..

Also, Yokto:
I copied the choices from the Alpha Centauri entry at Wikipedia and simplified them a bit.. As far as I know, Cybernetic should refer to the gradual implementation of more and more cybernetic parts into (in this case) human society and Eudaimonic should indeed be utopian, but generally refers to striving to have citizens be as happy as possible..

Here are the descriptions from the Wikipedia entry, which are quoted directly from the game:
Future society represents advanced social engineering models, which can be used very late in the game after extensive research and much experience with social engineering.
- None is the default future society. This represents that the player's society has not yet developed a future society.
- Cybernetic is the future society where artificial intelligence has taken over the menial tasks of society, allowing humans devote their time to creative pursuits. Its downside is the civil unrest often caused as people have their jobs taken by machines.
- Eudaimonic is virtue in accord with excellence: the citizens of this society achieve ultimate happiness by striving to fulfil their greatest potential.
- Thought control is the future society where mind-control methods are used to utterly subjugate the citizens of the player's society.

Offline Yokto

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Re: Religion, items, and government...
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2006, 04:26:04 am »
Well the problem is that a societies goals can not be used to describe a society. Most societies try to achieve happiness. Even a Thought control could be seen as a twisted search for happiness for where their is no desires their is no lack ether. Simples way to create a Thought control society would be to simply give the citizens drugs that are simple to manufacture and do minmum damage to is citizens. Is very easy when one read the list to think that Eudaimonic is paradise, Cybernetic is OK and Thought control is hell. But one should read a little more carefull what the text actually says. One will notes that all the social models both have flaws and addavantages. And taking  Thought control would not stop you from having democracy at the same time. (Even if one can question what type of democracies where a majority of the people is dope up on drugs all the time is.)

The last list you presented is correct. Of course is a straight copy from SMAC own in game list. It shows that more about the good and bad sides of all the societies.

to Protoavis: As you see from the list posted by jarnomiedema that in SMAC Cybernetic uses artificial intelligence for the micro management of societies as a hole. I know however that when the ideas of a Cybernetic was first started to surface it was not really about letting AI take control over executive rule. So you observation is correct as a hole but do not fit perfectly with the ideas of a Cybernetic societies in SMAC.

As for what society i would like to live in i think i have to say Cybernetic because it would probably give me most freedom. Something that i think can be hinders in Thought control society where my desires would be eliminated and Eudaimonic society where i would be seen as a renegade if i decided to do something I'm no naturally good at.

Well back to topic.

I actually hope that Spore will not go in to cultural detail where you choice how many gods you small sporeling worship. I think the idea that one instead build once culture with the tools and by once actions affects how the culture things is a lot better. If you wish to have a temple the build it. If you wish you sporeling to dance and have rituals then make them sensitive. Simple is probably the best. And what fun would it be if you sporeling just worship a number? If you set that you culture should have 3 gods but you would not see the difference why have that feature? And by having a Cultural worship building or smiler you could created any god or even any item to worship. It would be fun to see them worship a TV sation or maybe a gigant statue of a donut.  ;D
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Offline Mason11987

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Re: Religion, items, and government...
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2006, 04:52:17 pm »
That IS a picture of recruitment tools specifically, you know that right? ;)

Haha.. Yeah, I know.. But recruitment for what? The army? Your religion? Your civilization?

Your tribe ;).
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Offline Penguin

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Re: Religion, items, and government...
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2006, 07:01:18 pm »
Personally, I'd rather just have it the way it is and let the extra detailed features be added in Spore 2.

I'm fully against sequels.  There's no reason at all (especially when using largely on-the-fly generated graphics) that a game can't be upgraded instead of tossed aside for a sequel.  Everything you could want in a sequel could be added with an expansion (this includes a new 'story' and area, new features, ugpraded graphics and sounds, new menu features, etc.) and you could actually make the game much larger and better with an expansion than a sequel because an expansion doesn't need to remake all of the original stuff again.

I didn't mean a sequel specifically, I just meant that I wouldn't want the dev team to delay the release even more just to add all these extra details, because such things can be added later, whether it be by mod teams, as an expansion, or a sequel.

Besides, it was Will Wright's design from the beginning to make Spore be several simpler games put together rather than one very complicated game. So wishing for these kind of details is pretty pointless.

But I don't doubt that there will be some basic government systems and cultural things, since he did specify that during the Tribal Stage you would be developing your culture, and during the Civ Stage you could make peaceful negotiations and deals with your neighboring cities (meaning you don't need to conquer the world by force, you can make peace treaties and alliances instead). But the Civ Stage, for example, is definitely going to be simpler than the game Civilization, just like the City Stage will be simpler than SimCity, etc. This isn't speculation, it's what Will Wright said during the GDC '05 presentation.

Offline JakeCourtney

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Re: Religion, items, and government...
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2006, 08:00:30 pm »
Err, I just want E3 to get here so we know a little more about this damn game.

Offline Full_Metal

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Re: Religion, items, and government...
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2006, 10:54:43 pm »
I thought such things were irrelivant to spore, because how you actually played your species/civ would determine its "personality" and consequently, how other civs react to it.

jarnomiedema: Alpha Centauri's gov system was inspired. At first, I thought wierd things like a "free market police state" would never happen in the real world. Then, I realized that's what China is like right now.

Offline dvalladt

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Re: Religion, items, and government...
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2006, 08:36:42 am »
Re: "dumbing down", I think Spore is trying to be an aesthetic experience, Will Wright has already pointed that the game won't be the deepest, and I'm very curious to know how does it play out in the end. He said that this stage was a "simpler version" of this, and that stage was a "simpler version" of that, except, I guess, the first stage, wich will be a "deeper version" of Pacman ;)

While I like deep simulation and strategy games, I has big expectations about, errr, "aesthetic games", and the trend Spore might start. I'm the kind of person that cared about making a beautiful city, and a great looking army, the first times I played "Age of empires" -before my brother learnt that and I started to eat the dust every time.

Like Deleuze used to say, "if superficiality is a lack of depth, isn't depth a lack of surface?"

Offline Calqhoon

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Re: Religion, items, and government...
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2006, 09:23:27 am »
I'd love this game to be whatever the player wants it to be; If you want a simple game, leading your creatures up to the space age, then fine, and similarly if you want to get more involved and deeper into the science/genetics aspect of it, then it would be possible too.

Actually I might see if i can dig up a copy of one of the Creatures games. Only problem with them is that they're fun for about 20 minutes.

Offline Yokto

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Re: Religion, items, and government...
« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2006, 10:34:50 am »
I think the depth of the game will come from the interaction of all the tools and elements. Why would we need a list of gods if we could make the temple our self? Why would we need a preset government when we can change our sporelings to savage beast or to peace loving  cowards via our actions? I feel is mush more rewarding to watch my creature do stuff rather then see a list of statistics.

Statstics are good however but only when they are valid. Valid statistic in this game would be how many times my creature have eaten and stuff like that. But to know how many good they worship without havening any effect on the gameplay is just pointless. And I'm a afraid that if Religion was done is the same way as SMAC (Which by the way is one of my all time favorite games) that we will actually lose the freedom to tools give. Also we need to leave a little out to the fantasy. In SMAC we did not see the citzens but i did imagine them. In Spore we can see the citzens but we do not have to see how the government works directly.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2006, 03:59:57 pm by Yokto »
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