Author Topic: Religion, items, and government...  (Read 7382 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

7 who ate 9

  • Guest
Religion, items, and government...
« on: May 03, 2006, 07:00:34 am »
I know it has been asked before, but do you think you can edit them? The religon might not change things that much, but chosing the government would. Plus, what if you could edit what items are used for, what the buildings are used for, and what the vechiles are used for? It would change the game completly. Wouldn't it be fun to chose the government rather than letting the computer do it procedrully?



Offline slugfly

  • Time Pilot Trekker
  • *****
  • Posts: 1395
    • View Profile
    • SporeFanatic
Re: Religion, items, and government...
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2006, 08:34:45 am »
7 eats 9 = 16, you have 983 posts...

Add all digits and you get 36...  or 9.  Add to this the number of questions in the topic title (3) and you get 12. Plus add the number of questions in the post itself (4) and you get 16.

The square root of 16 is 4.  That's the number of days that we have to wait to find this stuff out ;)

Offline jarnomiedema

  • Wizard of Wor
  • ***
  • Posts: 299
    • View Profile
Re: Religion, items, and government...
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2006, 08:49:56 am »
I hope they'll give us the ability to choose certain aspects of religion and government..

I've actually been thinking about the religious 'choices' if there are any in the game.. The choices could perhaps be something as follows:
- No God(s) / One God / Multiple Gods (If latter, select how many)
- Offering (yes/no) (If yes, then select: fruit, children, old people, members of different tribes)
- Idol Worship (yes/no) (If yes, you can build religious buildings, if no.. Something else?)
- Missionaries (active/passive/aggressive) (Active would mean sending missionaires to other cities, passive would mean they stay in your city and preach, aggressive could perhaps be like the crusades? Armed missionaries trying to convert people..)
- State Religion (yes/no) (If yes, your religion would be the predominant one and other religions would have a hard time gaining ground.. Could cause some unhappiness, but might give certain financial benefits..)
- Theocracy (yes/no) (If yes, no other religions would be allowed in your cities, could cause some unhappiness, but might also give bonusses to soldiers..)
- Freedom of Religion (yes/no) (This would come later in the game and could perhaps cause happiness in your cities.)

For the government choices, I think it should be roughly similar to what was available in Alpha Centauri..
Something like this:

Politics represents the method your society uses to make political decisions.
- Frontier (basic)
- Police State
- Democratic
- Fundamentalist

Economics represents how your society manages its resources.
- Simple (basic)
- Free Market
- Planned
- Green


Values represents which value system your society is based upon.
- Survival (basic)
- Power (strong military)
- Knowledge (fast scientific development)
- Wealth (making lots of money)

Future society represents advanced social engineering models, which can be used very late in the game after extensive research and much experience with social engineering.
- None (basic)
- Cybernetic (more and more implimentation of cybernetic parts)
- Eudaimonic (strifing for great potential and happiness)
- Thought control (completely control your population)

So, as far as I'm concerned, there should be plenty of choices available to us to make sure that we can customize our governments and societies as much as possible..
« Last Edit: May 03, 2006, 10:27:55 am by jarnomiedema »

Offline slugfly

  • Time Pilot Trekker
  • *****
  • Posts: 1395
    • View Profile
    • SporeFanatic
Re: Religion, items, and government...
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2006, 08:52:57 am »
Those are great ideas jar jar.  It would be very cool if we could design society as well!  I'd love to make a dystopian world of mind-controlled zombies, enslaved by commerce and the perpetual quest for more stimulation...  I'd probably name it Seoul, Tokyo, LA or New York.

Offline Penguin

  • Mystery House Madman
  • **
  • Posts: 205
    • View Profile
Re: Religion, items, and government...
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2006, 12:05:42 pm »
I don't think there's been any indication that there's going to be religions in the game.

Also, keep in mind that although Will compared the Civ Stage gameplay to the game Civilization, he only meant that it would have a similar style. He also mentioned that each stage is not going to be a large, in-depth game, but rather simplified versions of those games. The Creature Stage is a simplified version of Diablo, Tribal is a simplified version of Populous, City is simplified SimCity, etc.

So if I were you I wouldn't be expecting all these detailed aspects of the game. E3 is only a few weeks away, better to just wait and see.

Offline raikitsune

  • Intellivision Junkie
  • ***
  • Posts: 488
  • Ogbogistahni
    • View Profile
Re: Religion, items, and government...
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2006, 12:23:58 pm »
if i remember correctly religion was besicly the culture score.

Offline google_video_fan

  • Revenging Yar
  • ****
  • Posts: 610
  • The video that started it all...
    • View Profile
    • http://othersite.org
Re: Religion, items, and government...
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2006, 01:09:28 pm »
^ yea i agree. this would add excess complexity to an already complex game.

I guess culture will equal religion


i'm a fan of the GDC 2005 Spore video on Google Videos...

http://othersite.org <- my site

Offline jarnomiedema

  • Wizard of Wor
  • ***
  • Posts: 299
    • View Profile
Re: Religion, items, and government...
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2006, 02:21:30 pm »
I never said that I expect these things to be included with the game, just that I hope it will be..

Personally I'm not much of a fan of 'dumbing' a game down just to make it easier to play for people who don't care about detailed information and micromanagement, but if that's the way Spore goes, it's fine by me.. I always feel the best way to go in such a situation is to let the AI handle the management for people who don't care about details (for instance: if you play aggressively the AI would assign the police state choice to your city/civ) and on the other hand let the player handle the management if they like to tinker with the controls behind the scenes..

One of the main reasons why I assumed religion (of some kind) would be included in the game is because of this concept art posted some time ago:


Like I said, I hope the game isn't going to be 'dumbed' down just to keep things simple, but that is indeed what I fear.. I guess we'll all have to wait for E3 indeed! Can't wait to see what's going to be divulged!  ;D

Offline Penguin

  • Mystery House Madman
  • **
  • Posts: 205
    • View Profile
Re: Religion, items, and government...
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2006, 02:28:49 pm »
Personally I'm not much of a fan of 'dumbing' a game down just to make it easier to play for people who don't care about detailed information and micromanagement, but if that's the way Spore goes, it's fine by me..

In case you haven't noticed, this game is already huge and very complex from a programming point of view. They've already spent 6 years on it, and it's not done yet. For them to make the kind of in-depth game you want it would take closer to 10 years. Personally, I'd rather just have it the way it is and let the extra detailed features be added in Spore 2.

Offline jarnomiedema

  • Wizard of Wor
  • ***
  • Posts: 299
    • View Profile
Re: Religion, items, and government...
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2006, 03:08:54 pm »
What? You're telling me this game is huge and very complicated? I didn't know that! What have I been doing here since March 2005?

(Ok, sorry about the sarcasm, but I just couldn't resist..  ;D)

Don't get me wrong, I'm hugely appreciative of the game and realize that it's been a very, very complex game to create.. Also, as I've said, I merely hope these things will be included.. If they're not, that's fine as well.. (I'll think it's too bad, but will still buy the game nonetheless when it comes out..) The things I absolutely love about Spore far outweigh any potential points of criticism I may have..

(I don't think it would take four more years to add a few choices in terms of religious/governmental options, but I wouldn't want the devs to add these features if it would mean less time for them to develop more important parts of the game..  ;) )

Besides, if I want to play games that are this detailed, I'll play Civ IV or Alpha Centauri.. Although I doubt I'll ever look at those games again once I get Spore..  :D
« Last Edit: May 03, 2006, 03:11:30 pm by jarnomiedema »

Offline Yokto

  • Street Fighter
  • *****
  • Posts: 6238
  • Do not feed the Giant Gnawling.
    • View Profile
Re: Religion, items, and government...
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2006, 03:52:26 pm »
Future society represents advanced social engineering models, which can be used very late in the game after extensive research and much experience with social engineering.
- None (basic)
- Cybernetic (more and more implimentation of cybernetic parts)
- Eudaimonic (strifing for great potential and happiness)
- Thought control (completely control your population)
I think you describe Eudaimonic and Cybernetic a little wrong.

The Cybernetic society is base on the idea that AIs will do all the heavy governing and leting the citizens get as mush freedom and time as possible in that process. The citizens them self many or many not be Cybernetic augmented. It up to them.

Eudaimonic Strives for a idea society base that on the idea of the right man on the right job. What one should do is base on what one is skilled in. Is very mush a Utopian idea which also have the same shadows.

In some ways both Eudaimonic and Cybernetic societies are very alike. Both try to achieve as a efficient society at hole. I see problem with both. In Eudaimonic you are at risk of being a part of a machine wiles in Cybernetic you are at risk of being outside the machine.

Now back to the topic  ;)

I think that it would be best if once actions control's how once society evolves. I do not wish to have a simple menu where i can select what type of society i will have. This works for SMAC but that a diffrent type of game which concentrates on empire building at a large scale but spore is more on how to build a society and how it interracts with others.
Check out my Creatures.
The Ęthirans
The Echin
The Jinnivons
Star Citizen Ref code: STAR-JLJP-LRTC
When you singing up use code and get 5000 credits for free ;)

Offline Mason11987

  • Rally-X Roadster
  • ****
  • Posts: 572
    • View Profile
Re: Religion, items, and government...
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2006, 05:44:12 pm »
I never said that I expect these things to be included with the game, just that I hope it will be..

Personally I'm not much of a fan of 'dumbing' a game down just to make it easier to play for people who don't care about detailed information and micromanagement, but if that's the way Spore goes, it's fine by me.. I always feel the best way to go in such a situation is to let the AI handle the management for people who don't care about details (for instance: if you play aggressively the AI would assign the police state choice to your city/civ) and on the other hand let the player handle the management if they like to tinker with the controls behind the scenes..

One of the main reasons why I assumed religion (of some kind) would be included in the game is because of this concept art posted some time ago:
*snip recruit tools image

Like I said, I hope the game isn't going to be 'dumbed' down just to keep things simple, but that is indeed what I fear.. I guess we'll all have to wait for E3 indeed! Can't wait to see what's going to be divulged!  ;D

That IS a picture of recruitment tools specifically, you know that right? ;)
My Sporepedia page: http://www.spore.com/view/profile/Mason11987
On GS: http://www.gamingsteve.com/blab/index.php?topic=12609.0

Maxis and Spore - Bringing your imagination to life:


Offline Protoavis

  • Sea Battler
  • ***
  • Posts: 394
    • View Profile
Re: Religion, items, and government...
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2006, 05:55:33 pm »
The Cybernetic society is base on the idea that AIs will do all the heavy governing and leting the citizens get as mush freedom and time as possible in that process. The citizens them self many or many not be Cybernetic augmented. It up to them.


That sounds more like technocratic and little to nothing to do with cybernetic.
"Oh mummy, the bad man said bad things, please mummy...mummy" said the 20+ yr old man.

Offline Yokto

  • Street Fighter
  • *****
  • Posts: 6238
  • Do not feed the Giant Gnawling.
    • View Profile
Re: Religion, items, and government...
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2006, 07:03:21 pm »
Well you have to go to the root of what Cybernetics mean. And it is on many levels smiler to the technocratic movement.  Both believing that science will lead the way. But may the difference is that in a Cybernetics society computers actually the executive rule and not human as is often the case in Technocratic society. still the limit is blurry especially if we consider that some humans and machines can merge. Thier are also to a less extent diffrent goals in a Cybernetics and a Technocratic society.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2006, 07:11:29 pm by Yokto »
Check out my Creatures.
The Ęthirans
The Echin
The Jinnivons
Star Citizen Ref code: STAR-JLJP-LRTC
When you singing up use code and get 5000 credits for free ;)

Offline Protoavis

  • Sea Battler
  • ***
  • Posts: 394
    • View Profile
Re: Religion, items, and government...
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2006, 08:37:38 pm »
I think I was making a point of how Artificial Intelligence and Cybernetics are not inclusive.

The field of cybernetics (not the be confused with cyborgs they aren't the same or related in any critical way, the names are the result of miscommunication decades ago) started in the 40's. Artificial Intelligence was a concept created in the 60's, granted AI was essentially birthed from cybernetics.

AI and Cybernetics are phillisophically different, AI being based on realist perception while Cybernetics is based on constructivist perception. AI is based entirely on technology. Cybernetics is much broader and applies to technology, biology, and the abstract.

Essentially AI believes that knowledge is something tangible and storeable. Cybernetics is more about the reaction, the reproduction of adaptive relationships....perhaps ironically like all this procedural spore stuff compared to other games. As in spore essentially adapts to the stimulii we impose on it, where say sim city, we're still creating but what is occuring is the manipulation of existing data, the buildings are pre determined, already stored.

In AI intelligence can be summed up as the manipulation of information, Cybernetics is more circular with its intelligence resides in obsevered conversations. (conversations meaning the flow of information in every and anything, from human senses, to mechanical responses, etc)

They're just fundamentally different.
"Oh mummy, the bad man said bad things, please mummy...mummy" said the 20+ yr old man.