Author Topic: "The Naboo Effect"  (Read 7007 times)

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Offline Big J Money

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"The Naboo Effect"
« on: April 29, 2006, 10:15:33 pm »
I'd like to know if the game will feature what I shall call "The Naboo Effect" (TNE).  Bascially, TNE is a situation where you have an underwater colony(ies) and an aboveground colony(ies) on the same planet, and they coexist harmoniously.  Take that a few steps further.  Can I colonize the oceans of a planet that already is packed aboveground?  If I colonize the oceans of one planet, can another race come and colonize tha ground above me later?  I think all the possibilities of allowing multiple races to colonize planets (especially TNE) could be pretty exciting.  The reverse isn't as obvious, but no less intriguing.  What if I create an empire that spans a solar system, and the whole time I have another empire living underneath my oceans and I don't even know about it?  Either they could simply evolve there like I did, or they can sneak in and colonize while I'm not looking.

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Offline Mcilroy

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Re: "The Naboo Effect"
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2006, 11:54:31 pm »
Only one sentient species can evolve on a planet . You can only have underwater colonies later in the game but it would be the same species .
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Offline slugfly

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Re: "The Naboo Effect"
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2006, 02:12:31 am »
however!  If you can download entire planets from people's pollinated content via the database then I could design just such a planet, you could colonize it and never know what lies in the deeps   :D

But just how deep will the deeps be?  I hope, very very deep.

Offline Protoavis

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Re: "The Naboo Effect"
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2006, 03:00:52 am »
Only one sentient species can evolve on a planet . You can only have underwater colonies later in the game but it would be the same species .

Unless you creature a sapient sea creature.
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Offline jarnomiedema

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Re: "The Naboo Effect"
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2006, 03:50:15 am »
That's right.. From what we know now, you can create sentient sea creatures who can create dwellings under the sea. Unfortunately your species will then be the only sentient species, so the creatures living on solid ground are all wild animals. You can later on expand your territory by building bubble cities filled with water on solid ground and eventually on other planets..

I do think that, once you're able to travel between stars, you can go to another planet and colonize the seas while the aliens are not watching.. Unless ofcourse the creators of the game built in some kind of protection that prevents you from colonizing worlds that are already inhabited by sentient aliens.. We just don't know.. I don't think there would be such a restriction against colonizing worlds that only have non-sentient life..

Hopefully we'll get some clarity on E3..  ;D

Offline Daxx

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Re: "The Naboo Effect"
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2006, 04:09:51 am »
Sapient. You people don't learn.

Offline Protoavis

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Re: "The Naboo Effect"
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2006, 04:35:49 am »
I did too!

Everyone else just keeps reverting back even after you say the correct term.....ITS NOT A TYPO PEOPLE!
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Offline Hydromancerx

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Re: "The Naboo Effect"
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2006, 05:08:50 am »
What i you have a land civ in an air bubble under the ocean while there is a water civ in water bubbles on land all on the same planet?

Offline DarkDragon

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Re: "The Naboo Effect"
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2006, 05:33:43 am »
Sapient - Having great wisdom and discernment.
Sentient -    1. Having sense perception; conscious: “The living knew themselves just sentient puppets on God's stage” (T.E. Lawrence).
                  2. Experiencing sensation or feeling.
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Offline jarnomiedema

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Re: "The Naboo Effect"
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2006, 05:50:27 am »
Guys.. I know 'sapient' is the correct term.. The reason why I don't use it is because the people who are creating Spore (even Will Wright himself) refers to sentience.. Why? Perhaps here's a clue:

From the Wikipedia article on Sapience:
"It is generally interpreted in the English-speaking world as meaning to be wise, and the present participle forms part of Homo sapiens, the Latin binomial nomenclature created by Carolus Linnaeus to describe the human species."

I think the reason why sentience is used in preference over sapience is because sapience is so much associated with humanity that it seems odd to attach it to an alien species.. Personally, I'm not going to adapt to this and will continue to use sentience, even though it is 'technically' the wrong term.. Every time you see someone using it, think: 'Hah! I know better! It's actually 'sapience' and leave it at that instead of bothering us with it..  ::)

Now, let's see if we can get back to the subject at hand, shall we?  >:(

EDIT: Hydro, from what we know there's no way to have two different sentient species (one water and one land) on the same planet, so I'm not sure what you mean.. Could you perhaps elaborate?
« Last Edit: April 30, 2006, 05:52:54 am by jarnomiedema »

Offline Daxx

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Re: "The Naboo Effect"
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2006, 05:58:16 am »
SimEarth has sapience, not sentience, so it looks like Will knows what he's talking about. Where do you see Will talking about sentience?

I am going to bother you with it, because it's plain wrong to use the word. This is extremely important in other contexts (as you may discover when talking to animal activists), and if you're going to insist on using the wrong word, you're only perpetuating it in the minds of others.

Offline jarnomiedema

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Re: "The Naboo Effect"
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2006, 06:05:56 am »
Ahum.. A direct quote from the 2005 GDC Spore Video with Will Wright:

"Once you get the highest level of brain, your creature has actually become sentient and you move to the next phase"

(and it's being used quite a few times after that as well..)

Like I said, I don't think this should be debated in a topic that has nothing to do with the differences between sapience and sentience, but more with whether or not there can be two different 'intelligent' (how's that?) species on the same planet.. Feel free to bother me all you want, I'm not changing the way I write things.. And I'm definitely not going to bow to the sapience-Gestapo after this..  ::)

Offline slugfly

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Re: "The Naboo Effect"
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2006, 06:36:57 am »
Everytime you say sentience when you mean sapience

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Offline Detoxicated

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Re: "The Naboo Effect"
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2006, 07:55:39 am »
Īve just had a splendid idea, imagine you have this underwater species, and you start colonizing other planets. Imagine you terraform a normal planet, i think all the landanimals would die because it would become water right?
OK, both of you die and let us know what happens.

Offline google_video_fan

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Re: "The Naboo Effect"
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2006, 09:04:08 am »
alright, enough with the grammar/diction nazis.


Anyways, what you could do is reach the Galactic stage and secretly colonize a planet which has above-ground creatures on it. You'll eventually be strong enough to defend any counter-attacks and able to establish some kind of diplomatic truce.



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Re: "The Naboo Effect"
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2006, 09:16:55 am »
true but you'd have to plant the colony before that race gets beyond the tribal stage or they'll know what you're up to

Offline Bobthetriangle

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Re: "The Naboo Effect"
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2006, 10:13:13 am »
i think there should be an "Encounter intelligent species on homeplanet on/off" option.

i'm not a big fan of limiting a game just to make it easier. plus I'd like to play out an "aliens attack our planet" scenario.
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Offline slugfly

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Re: "The Naboo Effect"
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2006, 09:29:04 pm »
I agree... however it would HAVE to be limited in that they wouldn't be allowed to wipe you out or use the planet buster.

If this game is a fraction as cool as I suspect it will be, it will take somebody (who plays in-depth) anywhere from 20-30 hours to reach the city/civ stage and at least another 10-30 to reach space and interstellar.  It would suck to log 40 hours, get startled and launch a couple missles at a UFO and then....  KABAWOOOSHHHH....  you're planet is turned into a 'nice crafts project' and your long labor of love is now reduced to scattered limbs orbiting the sun.

Offline mrodgers

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Re: "The Naboo Effect"
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2006, 05:25:01 am »
I agree... however it would HAVE to be limited in that they wouldn't be allowed to wipe you out or use the planet buster.

If this game is a fraction as cool as I suspect it will be, it will take somebody (who plays in-depth) anywhere from 20-30 hours to reach the city/civ stage and at least another 10-30 to reach space and interstellar.  It would suck to log 40 hours, get startled and launch a couple missles at a UFO and then....  KABAWOOOSHHHH....  you're planet is turned into a 'nice crafts project' and your long labor of love is now reduced to scattered limbs orbiting the sun.

I recall WW saying that other aliens won't use the planet buster unless strongly provoked first.  It does give you a good reason to not piss people off.  I assume though that you won't be able to go aruond and just blow up other worlds at random.  The weapon will probably cost an arm and 4 legs.
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Offline Calqhoon

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Re: "The Naboo Effect"
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2006, 05:34:36 am »
I don't think it's been mentioned in this thread, but AFAIK it's possible to colonize a planet that alread has sapient life. If that sapient life just happens to all live in underwater cities, then you might colonize the land on their planet without ever finding them (you'll know they exist from the 'SETI' part of the game though). One day someone goes for a swim and noticies there's something lurking in the water...

Offline Protoavis

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Re: "The Naboo Effect"
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2006, 03:07:26 pm »
I dont know why people are thinking underwater cities will be invisible....they'll just turn into a button like every other cities, just they'll be sitting in the ocean.
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Offline google_video_fan

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Re: "The Naboo Effect"
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2006, 08:11:22 pm »
I'm guessing there'll be some kind of "fog of war" system implemented during the city/tribal/evolution stage.

So you could hide your planet from enemies by simply building far...


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Re: "The Naboo Effect"
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2006, 08:46:06 pm »
I agree... however it would HAVE to be limited in that they wouldn't be allowed to wipe you out or use the planet buster.

If this game is a fraction as cool as I suspect it will be, it will take somebody (who plays in-depth) anywhere from 20-30 hours to reach the city/civ stage and at least another 10-30 to reach space and interstellar.  It would suck to log 40 hours, get startled and launch a couple missiles at a UFO and then....  KABAWOOOSHHHH....  you're planet is turned into a 'nice crafts project' and your long labor of love is now reduced to scattered limbs orbiting the sun.

I find that hard to believe, Will Wrights games are usually targeted at fairly casual gamers, people who might not want to spend hours at a time at a computer, I think he also mentioned it in his big speech last year when he was introducing spore. I think the amount of time will be closer to 100 hours to get to space age, remember that the opening stages are really just tutorials, so you don't want to be spending 40+ hours in tutorial mode, also thedoesn't the game react to how you play, if you're into attacking every race you find you're going to be bumping into more aggressive races, whereas if you just want to seed the galaxy with life then you're probably not going to meet many races at all, and if you do most will probably be friendly.

Offline slugfly

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Re: "The Naboo Effect"
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2006, 09:28:26 pm »
I seriously hope this "fog" is the case.  I would like to see it work like this:

From close up, you can see anything within your immediate view
From the sky or low orbit, you can see your own cities or other cities that you've already discovered.  You can see your own creatures.
From high orbit, you can see your own cities.
From a very high orbit or system view, you can see only the planet.

A 'fog' would be necessary for the idea of exploring and for having surprises.  It would be much more fun to go to a planet and have to look around to find out where the radio signals were coming from, and not knowing how many cities or vehicles they have wandering about.

Offline Caltrop

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Re: "The Naboo Effect"
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2006, 09:39:31 pm »
I seriously hope this "fog" is the case.  I would like to see it work like this:

From close up, you can see anything within your immediate view
From the sky or low orbit, you can see your own cities or other cities that you've already discovered.  You can see your own creatures.
From high orbit, you can see your own cities.
From a very high orbit or system view, you can see only the planet.

A 'fog' would be necessary for the idea of exploring and for having surprises.  It would be much more fun to go to a planet and have to look around to find out where the radio signals were coming from, and not knowing how many cities or vehicles they have wandering about.

Ditto.
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Offline mrodgers

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Re: "The Naboo Effect"
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2006, 06:42:32 am »
I agree... however it would HAVE to be limited in that they wouldn't be allowed to wipe you out or use the planet buster.

If this game is a fraction as cool as I suspect it will be, it will take somebody (who plays in-depth) anywhere from 20-30 hours to reach the city/civ stage and at least another 10-30 to reach space and interstellar.  It would suck to log 40 hours, get startled and launch a couple missiles at a UFO and then....  KABAWOOOSHHHH....  you're planet is turned into a 'nice crafts project' and your long labor of love is now reduced to scattered limbs orbiting the sun.

I find that hard to believe, Will Wrights games are usually targeted at fairly casual gamers, people who might not want to spend hours at a time at a computer, I think he also mentioned it in his big speech last year when he was introducing spore. I think the amount of time will be closer to 100 hours to get to space age, remember that the opening stages are really just tutorials, so you don't want to be spending 40+ hours in tutorial mode, also thedoesn't the game react to how you play, if you're into attacking every race you find you're going to be bumping into more aggressive races, whereas if you just want to seed the galaxy with life then you're probably not going to meet many races at all, and if you do most will probably be friendly.

I think that if you rush through it you will be able to get to the Space stages fairly quickly, but I personally think most of the fun will be in the evolution and tribal stages and plan on spending a lot of time in those.  If you do that, the game could easily double or triple in length depending on how you play it.
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Offline Tantalus

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Re: "The Naboo Effect"
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2006, 10:25:48 pm »
Yeah a fog of war would be nice, but really an advanced species would have sensors that could cover a planet so any land based cities would be clearly visible. The question is how much is the sea going to obscure you're city and will you be able to build specific buildings that increase the fog of war around your city. It would be super sweet to be able to have an advanced city right next to some upstart species city and them not know we're there.