Poll

Syria?

Yes
6 (23.1%)
No
20 (76.9%)

Total Members Voted: 26

Author Topic: Politics  (Read 474453 times)

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Offline Luminar

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Re: Politics
« Reply #2925 on: August 09, 2011, 07:21:00 pm »
They're tories. They only believe education is for real people (ie not anyone who isnt them) and thus this isn't going to accomplish jack.

Offline eropS

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Re: Politics
« Reply #2926 on: August 09, 2011, 07:59:35 pm »
Huh.

I wonder if a similar thing will happen when we start making real cuts soon.
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Offline Inkling

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Re: Politics
« Reply #2927 on: August 09, 2011, 08:15:15 pm »
Not likely.  Store owners might have guns here.  And I'm not convinced that a protest that started about police brutality and resulted in mobs looting and burning has anything to do with education funding.
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Offline eropS

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Re: Politics
« Reply #2928 on: August 09, 2011, 08:19:29 pm »
I suppose, but i mean the Rodney King thing wasn't just about the cops beating the ever loving $hit out of a black dude and then getting let off. That was the spark to the powder keg so to speak.

I am wondering if we might be filling the keg.
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Offline Plank of Wood

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Re: Politics
« Reply #2929 on: August 09, 2011, 08:22:49 pm »
The reason why it started has nothing to do with what it is about now.

For example, why would a mostly white crowd in Manchester be rioting about a police racism in Tottenham? Did the underclass of Manchester suddenly experience a mass and violent feeling of liberal guilt?
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Offline eropS

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Re: Politics
« Reply #2930 on: August 09, 2011, 08:25:40 pm »
Yeah that's what I'm kinda saying.

A racial thing started it but the core of the issue is beyond that.
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Offline Plank of Wood

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Re: Politics
« Reply #2931 on: August 09, 2011, 09:48:02 pm »
And I'm not convinced that a protest that started about police brutality and resulted in mobs looting and burning has anything to do with education funding.

So how is this possibly not about education? When the arrest statistics are released, see how many of them are aged around 14-20 (almost all of them) and how many are in the "NEET" (Not in Education, Employment or Training, (basically no qualifications)) group (definitely all of them). Then tell me bad education standards has nothing to do with this.
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Offline Luminar

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Re: Politics
« Reply #2932 on: August 09, 2011, 09:51:24 pm »
And yet the inverse is seemingly true of America, where lack of education is used to keep lower classes docile by promoting the farcical illusion that the rich got where they are by hard work and that anyone can elevate their station by slaving themselves to death in a dead end minimum wage hellhole. Seems to be getting to the point where many people have been flat out turned into zealots for a cause which is actively against their own interests.

Offline Uroboros

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Re: Politics
« Reply #2933 on: August 09, 2011, 10:26:50 pm »
It's one thing if peaceful protests on a big issue were unheeded, and then turned into rioting escalated civil disobedience, but completely different thing when you're using an ocean of faces as hopeful protection for illegal activities (and not being one of those who are held accountable for their actions, due to police forces being overwhelmed). To be honest, the people who have been popping up, trying to inject romantic meaning into the riots, make me facepalm big-style. Maybe i'm missing something, but all the people trying to suggest the riots are good or rational are easily dissected with a little basic critical thinking.

It isn't about unemployment, disadvantaged/impoverished families, disagreement with government policy or education because they're destroying storefronts, looting shops and wrecking entire buildings regardless of size, owner, or relevancy to any cause but the type of contents they can steal. They're not exclusively targetting big-business outlets, they're happily looting and wrecking small toystores, pound-shops and smaller family-run stores as much as larger names and buildings. Often of their own neighbourhoods, let alone in their own towns. The people having their livelihoods burned down are not police or government affiliated. They are not targetted by age or race. A good slice of them seem to have mobile phones with video recording features to grab footage of their literal revelry, happy-slapping style. A surprising number of the rioters are quite young, and of course there is the entire "organisation by social networking" thing milling around. Do the run-down, unemployed and uneducated, often find themselves with videophones and internet access? Do those with a mind for politics or a care for education really think random destructive public crimes forwards any message but "lock down on us"?

Is it some form of protest? An explosive reaction to a dark act by the establishment? Magic 8-Ball says "All signs point to no"
Sure you can quote the news reporter and the rioter, with the "Would you have talked to me if I wasn't rioting?" bull, but actually ask them as individuals why they're doing it, and you can bet they'll scramble for the nearest scapegoat that comes to mind like a certain Miss Teen USA candidate being thrown a surprise question. Are they championing a cause? Pretty funny way to forward a goal when none of them seem to be able to agree exactly what the goal is, other than to ruin the livelihood of other, peaceful citizens. Peaceful citizens in the same economy. In similar dire straits. In the same neighbourhoods. With the same laws.

Open corruption in the government? Blatant abuses of power? Peaceful solutions long since exhausted? Fine, but at least direct your aggression properly. Outright rioting and anarchy because you like the odds of not being one of those actually caught? Enjoy your jailtime, assbat. Yes, authorative organisations do have 'mere citizens' in a chokehold and are near impossible to budge an inch on any issue, able to protect their own through loopholes and 'legal manipulation', but this? This has nothing to do with any of that. Even if it did, it does not remedy it, it only gives them more ammunition.

If there was a cause somewhere deep under all this, the rioters have thoroughly devalued and soured it.
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So how is this possibly not about education? When the arrest statistics are released, see how many of them are aged around 14-20 (almost all of them) and how many are in the "NEET" (Not in Education, Employment or Training, (basically no qualifications)) group (definitely all of them). Then tell me bad education standards has nothing to do with this.
A grand majority of them could like pop music but that wouldn't mean their musical tastes has anything to do with their active choice to destroy s**t. Consider how small a fraction of the local populace these rioters make, when compared to peaceful citizens of the same age and education/employment group you stated. You do not have to be one of the affected, to be offended nor to act. Let's say that hypothetically, all of them are white. Yes, that is an interestingly saturated stat, but no, it doesn't mean it has anything to do with the cause nor the reason they are ruining things. Unless of course you were implying more that wasters and dregs generally tend more towards random violence and criminality, then that is just plain getting off subject to the point of being a bit of a red herring.

Offline Inkling

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Re: Politics
« Reply #2934 on: August 09, 2011, 11:05:26 pm »
And I'm not convinced that a protest that started about police brutality and resulted in mobs looting and burning has anything to do with education funding.

So how is this possibly not about education? When the arrest statistics are released, see how many of them are aged around 14-20 (almost all of them) and how many are in the "NEET" (Not in Education, Employment or Training, (basically no qualifications)) group (definitely all of them). Then tell me bad education standards has nothing to do with this.

Okay, there's been a misunderstanding here.  I'm really glad I eventually got around to reading your article.  I thought you were saying the reason for the riots was people are angry over cuts to education spending, not that a failure of the education system has led to people who think rioting is a good idea.  The lowest performers and dropouts are a problem in any country, I'd think.  It's a hard problem and I don't know how to fix it.  I like the author of your article's points about these kids needing adult role models and people to hold them accountable, to break them out of the cycle.

I agree with Uroboros, people like these guys aren't here to make any political statement.  They are here to show what morally bankrupt pieces of trash they are:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP-CC0gsSU4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP-CC0gsSU4</a>


Luminar, I've been trying to avoid making assumptions about the causes of this thing, because I don't know the situation in the UK or the factors that have lead up to it.  Please don't make assumptions about the United States.  I've worked in politics, I've talked to and heard from politicians and other active people in all sorts of levels, in multiple states, on the left and the right.  No one wants people to be stupid, no one wants to keep the lower classes down.  They have the same goal of improved education, just different ideas of how to get there.  Please don't fall into the mindset that people on the other side of an issue are evil.  And sure, it helps to succeed if you have family connections and a fat inheritance, but people do "elevate their station" all the time.
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Offline eropS

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Re: Politics
« Reply #2935 on: August 10, 2011, 12:02:01 am »
So I am reading more of this.

Wow. This **** is absolutely insane. I have so many questions about it. Is it slowing down or stopping? What will the aftermath for London be? Or even Britain as a whole? Ramifications to the rest of the world? Is it really that easy to just turn a city into complete anarchy?

This is WILD! I'm sorry londerners that may be affected or have to deal with it.
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Offline Krakow Sam

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Re: Politics
« Reply #2936 on: August 10, 2011, 01:01:51 am »
Not likely.  Store owners might have guns here. 

So do rioters :P
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Offline eropS

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Re: Politics
« Reply #2937 on: August 10, 2011, 01:06:50 am »
Doesn't it then become like... civil war at that point haha?
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Offline Brandonazz

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Re: Politics
« Reply #2938 on: August 10, 2011, 01:18:13 am »
No haha?

Offline eropS

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Re: Politics
« Reply #2939 on: August 10, 2011, 01:20:21 am »
Well.

Alrighty.
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