Author Topic: Size of the Spore Galaxy (Warning, thar be math ahead)  (Read 11952 times)

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Offline rustybrazenfire

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Re: Size of the Spore Galaxy (Warning, thar be math ahead)
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2006, 06:41:16 am »
I wonder how they will deal with data accumulation.  I mean, once you reach the sandbox stage you have the potential for exploring anywhere and doing anything.  The closer you look at other systems, the more data you generate that will have to be stored.  I wonder if there will be some sort of seeding procedure where they only need to maintain a handful of variables to re-create the same planet every time you visit, or if they will maintain an actual record of the planet itself.

==My idea==

I think it would be neat if they had layers of data.  You could have a 'fresh' data layer which would include all of the specifics about a star system/planet you recently visited.  However, as you visit more systems the fresh data starts falling into the 'recent' data layer, which does not include all of the details, but enough to  reconstruct the system to a close degree.  As time passes it would fall into the 'old' data layer, which would contain only bare minimum details on the sytem.  If you were to revisit you might find some interesting and unexpected changes.  The final layer would be the 'unknown' layer, where the only data tracked would be a system's position, if you have visited it previously, and how long it has been.

==Example==

Let's say you visit the Betavine system.  You discover that it's a system with a cheery yellow star similar to our sun, and has four planets.  The two closest to the star are desolate rocks (Betavine-1 & Betavine-2)  One of the planets (Betavine-3) has a dense atmosphere and is 95% water.  You find that the planet is teeming with aquatic life.  So you abduct a few fish, blow up the smallest planet (Betavine-4), and leave.

The data about Betavine is in the Fresh stack.  If you come back to it, say, after a few hours of gameplay, you'll find the system exactly as you left it.

Now lets say you find more interesting things to do for a while.  You're generating more data, and eventually Betavine is pushed into the 'recent' stack.  The game keeps the system's orbital information, and details on the size and composition of the plantes, including planet type and category (think 'ocean planet')  You come back.  You find that Betavine 1 & 2 are still similar to before, execpt maybe they have a few new craters.  Betavine-3 still has a dense atmosphere, but is only 80% water.  Some of the terrain looks different, but the creatures are the same.  Betavine-4 still does not exist, but there is a lovely asteroid belt with one particularly large planetoid.  Betavine's back in the 'fresh' stack now.

Now you go a long, long time.  Betavine gets pushed into your 'old' stack.  The planets would retain their size, orbits, and habitability information, but nothing else.  Betavine-1 is much smaller than before, and sports numerous volcanoes.  Betavine-2 now sports a thin atmosphere, but not enough to support live.  Betavine-3 is now 50% water and teeming with different wildlife.  Betavine-4 is still an asteroid belt, although the composition of the asteroids seems to have changed.

====

Does any of this make sense?  I mean, it would be a way to keep the data handeling managable and give the sandbox an interesting ever-changing quality.

What do you think?

Offline /lurk

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Re: Size of the Spore Galaxy (Warning, thar be math ahead)
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2006, 09:43:49 am »
But if it worked like that, you couldn't watch some proto-lizards emerging from the ocean, go away for a while, and come back to see the lovely civilisation that they'd built.
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Offline LoneWolf

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Re: Size of the Spore Galaxy (Warning, thar be math ahead)
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2006, 04:38:51 pm »
I heard some one say will said it would be impossible to see every species as well as the new ones come from tmaxisevryday and the fact that the galaxy will be huge,We saw the space around wills planet and then he pointed it out when he zoomed out into the galaxy and it was a dot so yes it's huge and there most likly will be other galaxys.
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Offline SmileyMan

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Re: Size of the Spore Galaxy (Warning, thar be math ahead)
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2006, 05:13:11 pm »
Will has said that no player will be able to discover every planet in the game.

Offline Lu Yan

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Re: Size of the Spore Galaxy (Warning, thar be math ahead)
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2006, 07:47:41 pm »
Quote
By Smiley Man on 4/15

Will has said that no player will be able to discover every planet in the game

This makes me very happy. Usually the problem I have with games is when I run out of content to see; My preferred style is exploration, but there just isn't that much to see. This is why I can't wait for Spore, the game where the earth isn't flat, and you never reach the horizon. Also, I wonder how fast stars will live and die? And will your noobplanet Star explode, or will it not age until you have an extrasolar colony?

Thats one slippery tight rope. Too fast time makes a hasty and rushed game, too slow and it ceases to matter.

Offline Skraeling

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Re: Size of the Spore Galaxy (Warning, thar be math ahead)
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2006, 12:36:19 am »
I thought there was only one galaxy you could go to, but many solar systems?  Or am i just mincing words here.. blame me workin on a paper for me evolution class for 8hrs straight I am not quite coherent right now.

No, really.  I am a card carrying scientist.

Offline Milk eWay

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Re: Size of the Spore Galaxy (Warning, thar be math ahead)
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2006, 04:39:40 pm »
I don't think the stars will feel too rushed. The only reason I bring this up is that when the Sims 2 was in development, I feared that the people would grow up and die too fast but that is not the case today. It gives you the feeling of time, but you are usually closed to bored when the Sim dies, which keeps your interest. It gives you more worlds to explore when new solar systems are created.

Offline slugfly

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Re: Size of the Spore Galaxy (Warning, thar be math ahead)
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2006, 07:39:21 am »
I think the 'infinite star systems' thing is because the game downloads per need.  Like all games, despite the depth of this one, there is a Solipsis Bubble.  An area surrounding you, the player, where everything outside of that area simply does not exist.  So when you're a microbe, the only thing that actually exists is the little puddle of goop you're swimming in.  That goop is the entire universe.  When you get to animal stage, most of the planet still doesn't exist.  Even the stars only exist as points of light and don't actually exist in their own space.  Once you're at space age the other stars still don't exist as anything other than points of light.  When you go interstellar stars exist as points of light but they don't exist as entities until you visit them, at which point planets are generated or downloaded to accommodate you.

Also, in the game, there are supernovas (dead stars) and blackholes (erm... undead stars) and nebulas (star factories) so the game will be constantly recycling itself...  of course, if the blackholes don't have a way to end themselves we could end up in trouble after a year or two of playing with 20-100 blackholes drifting around...  (be a neat project if we can make them, a blackhole storm).

So out with the old and in with the new, things ever changing for as long as you play and always thousands of light spackles that will materialize into stars if you get close enough.

Offline Allch Chcar

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Re: Size of the Spore Galaxy (Warning, thar be math ahead)
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2006, 03:24:18 pm »
All information on everything(planets, creatures, celestial bodies, etc) will be stored in DNA format and when you are close enough to the object or any information of the object is required the DNA will be accessed and translated by Spore and then voila!

Or something like that.



Creatures evolutionary paths from beginning to end or at least current time of their data being called for might just end up being the result of massive mathematical equations and what the answer is at a certain point.
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Offline Samog

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Re: Size of the Spore Galaxy (Warning, thar be math ahead)
« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2006, 03:26:47 pm »
Creatures' evolutionary paths from beginning to end or at least the current time of their data being called for might just be what the creator of the creature wanted it to be.
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Offline Lu Yan

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Re: Size of the Spore Galaxy (Warning, thar be math ahead)
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2006, 04:04:45 pm »
Also, in the game, there are supernovas (dead stars) and blackholes (Erma... dead stars) and nebulae (star factories) so the game will be constantly recycling itself... of course, if the blackholes don't have a way to end themselves we could end up in trouble after a year or two of playing with 20-100 blackholes drifting around... (be a neat project if we can make them, a blackhole storm).

Black Hole Evaporation

Considering all the reading Wright does for Spore, he probably read something like this. Exploding Black Holes, oh my.

Thats one big galaxy; guess no ones gonna be conquering arms of the galaxy any time soon.

Offline Daxx

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Re: Size of the Spore Galaxy (Warning, thar be math ahead)
« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2006, 04:48:09 pm »
Also, in the game, there are supernovas (dead stars) and blackholes (Erma... dead stars) and nebulae (star factories) so the game will be constantly recycling itself... of course, if the blackholes don't have a way to end themselves we could end up in trouble after a year or two of playing with 20-100 blackholes drifting around... (be a neat project if we can make them, a blackhole storm).

Black Hole Evaporation

Considering all the reading Wright does for Spore, he probably read something like this. Exploding Black Holes, oh my.

Thats one big galaxy; guess no ones gonna be conquering arms of the galaxy any time soon.

Take a while for a black hole to disappear simply through Hawking radiation in my estimate, but you have a point.

Offline Tantalus

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Re: Size of the Spore Galaxy (Warning, thar be math ahead)
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2006, 08:10:16 pm »
I think the numbers for an average blackhole are somewhere in the range of older than the universe.

Offline Doomstrom

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Re: Size of the Spore Galaxy (Warning, thar be math ahead)
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2006, 02:44:50 am »
I think it will be big enough :) WW said it would take a lifetime to conquer every planet, and I hope he was being realistic :D
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Offline Calqhoon

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Re: Size of the Spore Galaxy (Warning, thar be math ahead)
« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2006, 04:04:04 am »
I'm pretty sure there will be multiple galaxies, as some people have mentioned, as it's all (AFAIK) procedurally generated. It's not like someone has to sit and create all these. Algorithms are the business.

(If you don't like guesswork, postulation and badly-done mathematics, skip the rest of the post :))

With regards to the data storage issue, I don't think that will be a problem. If I recall correctly, it's been officially stated that a race (which I imagine would be just the design of the creatures themselves, and possibly their civilisation level/temprament) takes up roughly 1kb. That means we can approximate that to 1,048,576 kbs in a gb. Say the races stored on your HDD for the game (some included on the CD ("tens of thousands" I think was the rough figure given), others would be "pollenated" content from other Spore players) took 2gb of HDD space (pulling numbers out of the air here, just for an example), that's 2,097,152 kb; or roughly 2,097,152 races.

That's a whole lotta explorin' to do.