Author Topic: Religion  (Read 526171 times)

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Offline munchkin5

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Re: Religion
« Reply #3540 on: March 12, 2009, 12:55:36 pm »
I think the point is that demonic possession wouldn't be the only reasonable possibility in pretty much every case of that happening, not that i'm saying demonic possession is a "reasonable possibility".

Offline Axelgear

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Re: Religion
« Reply #3541 on: March 12, 2009, 02:09:06 pm »
A bit like how people blame the schools failing for bad kids when they should blame some other target or, better still, the child themselves. It takes the sting away if you feel someone isn't responsible for an action in them you dislike.

However...

The Catholic Church and its definitions of demonic possession are not these. The signs for the Catholic Church include:

-Strength beyond their size/age group.
-Hatred of things holy.
-Speaking or understanding languages they've never learned, understood, or had any contact with.
-Knowing things they couldn't possibly know (Predicting the future, talking about people they've never met/heard of, etc.)

What causes possession can be any number of things, but these are the signs of it, not the actions that can lead to it.
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Offline munchkin5

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Re: Religion
« Reply #3542 on: March 12, 2009, 02:26:52 pm »
Well, those criteria certainly sound reasonable. Are there any documented examples of these sorts of occurences?

Offline Plank of Wood

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Re: Religion
« Reply #3543 on: March 12, 2009, 03:09:14 pm »
Yes.

You can easily access them by watching a daytime TV show on the "Paranormal" channel.
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Offline emmet

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Re: Religion
« Reply #3544 on: March 12, 2009, 03:14:49 pm »
OH SNAP!

But yeah, I believe in something called "a hoax." Remember, everyone can be corrupted and made to lie; a priest, a doctor, a possessee, "witnesses."
No way dude, you're trolling me.

Offline Bona Fide Supraman

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Re: Religion
« Reply #3545 on: March 12, 2009, 03:41:08 pm »
Yeh, but what would be the point? Why would a doctor risk everything simply so they can fool some people into thinking that somebody was possessed?

Come to think of it though, have there actually been any cases of possessions in modern times?

Or just back in the day when schizophrenia was unheard of?

Funny story: Doing work experience I shadowed a GP who had once had a patient come in, suffering from schizophrenia. She would answer his questions, but only after looking over his shoulder first. Turned out she believe she was possessed by an 18th Century demon, and she was checking that it would let her answer the question before talking.
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Offline Plank of Wood

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Re: Religion
« Reply #3546 on: March 12, 2009, 03:45:50 pm »
It's not really a funny story when you take into consideration that this person has to live with the disorder every day.
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Offline SmileyMan

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Re: Religion
« Reply #3547 on: March 12, 2009, 04:01:03 pm »
It's not really a funny story when you take into consideration that this person has to live with the disorder every day.

Yes it is.

And at least she has someone to talk to at all times.

Offline Cobra

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Re: Religion
« Reply #3548 on: March 12, 2009, 04:35:39 pm »
There was a show here in Australia called John Safran vs God which was basically the host travelling the world sampling the many religions often making light of things although he did also take serious looks at many things they did. I think I have shown a youtube video of one segment where he went door knocking in mormon communities in Utah to spread the word of Atheism and the teachings of Charles Darwin.

The last show in the series was with a Christian exorcist/faith healer (I think it was the same guy who appeared in the Borat movie faith healing Borat) John called him up when researching for the series and was told to come in at the end as he will be picking up many demons from exposing himself to all those "false gods". Compared to the other episodes in the series this was presented in a much more serious manner as John went through the Exorsism process there were many of the cliches such as snarling and at one point people attending the exorsism had to pin John down.

The episodes was designed to leave the viewer to deicde if it was all real. Although later on John Safran admitted they he believed the whole thing was done via a form of hypnosis noting that at one point when being wrestled to the ground his arm was wrenched enough that the pain from it started to bring him out of it.

Offline Bona Fide Supraman

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Re: Religion
« Reply #3549 on: March 12, 2009, 04:43:58 pm »
You ever heard of Derren Brown?

He can do some pretty amazing stuff. When you know how to manipulate the human mind, you can become very powerful.
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Offline Null

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Re: Religion
« Reply #3550 on: March 12, 2009, 05:39:47 pm »
I have seen some convincing hypnosis things in person, but I am still somewhat skeptical... even so... only a fool would allow another person to completely manipulate their mind.

Offline Axelgear

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Re: Religion
« Reply #3551 on: March 12, 2009, 06:16:55 pm »
Hypnosis requires the person's willingness to cooperate. You typically can't hypnotize someone unwilling, at least to my knowledge. Manipulating people is easy with the right knowledge, but you don't need to be some hocus-pocus practicing illusionist or hypnotist to do it. All you need is a grasp of human psychology and the rest falls into place.

Honestly, as for documentation of demonic possession, I COULD research it, but I'm tired and don't feel like reading accounts of it at the moment. I'm interested in examining the merits of spiritualism if and when I do my research on the topic, though, seeing how there have been some incredible claims and pictures from the turn of the last century. Ectoplasm, levitation, this and that...

Whether they have any veracity, I cannot say, but the research itself would be rewarding.

[...] spread the word of Atheism and the teachings of Charles Darwin.

That... Annoys me for a lot of reasons. I have no problem with people throwing proselytizing back in people's faces but...

1. They have to be proselytizers.
2. Darwin was an agnostic, not an atheist, by his own admission.
3. Don't go associating evolution with atheism or you're just going to annoy even more religious people.

Of course, I was the one who suggested to my friends we go to a Jehovah's Witnesses place and yell "Did you see anything yet!?", so badgering people isn't really anything I'll hold people accountable for.
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Offline Cobra

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Re: Religion
« Reply #3552 on: March 12, 2009, 06:25:19 pm »
The whole thing was done for Comedy not because of any personal beliefs held by Jon Safran. John is actually Jewish although I don't think he holds his religion strongly the whole series was about showing much of the hipocrasy in many religions.

Amoung other things he did included having a fatwa placed on a television personality after he was dropped as a guest from that personlities show (Which was later removed). Try and join the KKK as a jewish person, form a jewish boy band and try and get it signed to a christian rock label and try and get his old school to hald a dance formal by using the arguments from the movie Footloose to convince the principal.

Offline Axelgear

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Re: Religion
« Reply #3553 on: March 12, 2009, 06:34:13 pm »
Seems like a funny guy.
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Offline munchkin5

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Re: Religion
« Reply #3554 on: March 13, 2009, 09:28:17 am »
[...] spread the word of Atheism and the teachings of Charles Darwin.

That... Annoys me for a lot of reasons. I have no problem with people throwing proselytizing back in people's faces but...

1. They have to be proselytizers.
2. Darwin was an agnostic, not an atheist, by his own admission.
3. Don't go associating evolution with atheism or you're just going to annoy even more religious people.

Of course, I was the one who suggested to my friends we go to a Jehovah's Witnesses place and yell "Did you see anything yet!?", so badgering people isn't really anything I'll hold people accountable for.

No.1 doesn't make sense, because by defintion of what he was doing, thats what he was. and in relation to two and three he was spreading the word of "Atheism and The Teachings of Charles Darwin", not "The Teachings of Charles Darwin on Atheism", they wern't nessecarily related. Besides, it's perfectly acceptable to associate evolution with atheism.