Topic: Depth of Ecology in Spore

[Caltrop]

The NPC creatures are coming from other players, so someone created their whole evolution. If there is a connection between the creature and the evolved version of the creature, the program can download a next stage of them when you evolve, I hope.

If creatures cannot evolve on their own, I would definately like this instead. Then we still get the advantage of evolution, just in a different way.

And, in the event that an NPC is no longer updated (original player stops playing his/her game of Spore or somthing), we could pretend that its reached a 'perfect' evolutionary state for its environment, and doesn';t need to change much... like Horseshoe Crabs, and the Coelecanth (sp?).

[Beatnuki]

I too like that idea. Boot up the game on Monday and you're chowing on delectable four-eyed moose-monkeys (or something) but if you, unlike I probably will have by the tie it comes out, actually have other things to do apart from play Spore (shock, horror!) and can't come back until next Monday, the moose-monkeys might have larger mouths to gulp you down whole and huge claws to scratch you up reeeeeaall good. Gives the illusion of a persistent world, too. 

In that picture of all the creatures it's clear that some of them could have originated from the same species.....of course, they're all manmade and not game-made so it's not conclusive evidence that the game can create divergent species. Would truly be a benchamrk in coding if the AI could do that though. You never know. Unless you do, at which point well done. 

Additionally, something I'd like to see, though is hardly something that happens on Earth that I know of but may help gameplay, is if you exclusively hunt one species doggedly they get cross with you and you might get attacked by a herd of them out for revenge. Not necessary, I just thought it might be funny. Unless it happened to me, at which point it's annoying. Like the chickens who attack Link if he slices them with his sword too much in Zelda.

Finally, hives and hive mentality has been mentioned countless times so I'm not going to repeat that, but I would love to see queen-bee type matriarchs of the species...kind of the main female/male (adjust as appropriate for race) who must be protected at all times, and your goal in the survival stage is to impress her/him enough to win breeding rights to win extra evo-points to spend on future generations. Impressing cold be done by taking down a large animal that often kills your own kind, or by fighting off rivals of your gender, or even by doing something like the best procedural dance.....

[GCool]

I think the game would, like, pause whilst your not using it. Creatures would probably evolve in semi-real time, as in, they evolve at the same speed they did when the player was making them...

[Whoa...cool]

what i want to see is kinda small and only in later evolutionary stages (water/land evolution). I dont want there to be just a counter in the top right corner before you can evolve. I want to have to find a mate and physically(in the game) drag the carcass of my prey into the nest. Eventually, after some time, or until enough carcasses have piled up, then your partner lets you mate.

[Caltrop]

I think the game would, like, pause whilst your not using it. Creatures would probably evolve in semi-real time, as in, they evolve at the same speed they did when the player was making them...

That might work better... Or at least have regular update times or somthing.

[Stromko]

I expect that creatures in your ecosystem will evolve based on the path that the original designer has made for them. I think it's possible that 'incomplete' creatures (ones that haven't finished the civilization stage), will not be uploaded to the servers and will not be downloaded.

I don't think evolution of other creatures will happen in any time-based manner, I think they will evolve when the player evolves and never ever outpace them, in this I'm assuming the philosophy is to let players take as long as they like without being forced to evolve at a certain speed. They might even lag behind the player so that the adaptations the player takes in a given evolutionary stage will matter more(IE you get faster, and the other critters won't mount twice as many legs to get even faster immediately). Certain critters may be 'locked' at an early evolution stage, or they might not, depending on how it works into gameplay.

Also I thought it was in the tribal stage that you start to determine the inherent behavior of your species(the evo stage is when you work on their body, the tribal stage is when you work on their minds)? Hrm.. it'd be entirely logical that the behavior of your species in the evolution/Diablo stage will be based on your behavior in the evolution/Diablo stage though, that'd be the most logical way for the computer to know what the best way for them to hunt would be.

I think all these specific ideas for mating behaviors and such, would end up being very restrictive on the sorts of creatures we can make unless they're placed in very elegantly. Dragging dead critters to the nest isn't going to make sense for all species, it might be better for it to be abstract and simply be eat enough=evolve.

[Leng]

well naturally it would all be optional.  if you just wanted to make a creature that would eat sleep f*** and die the game shouldn't keep you from it.  some of the advantages would be subtle, yet profound, but sometimes they would be negligible.  for example a predator generally wouldn't derive an advantage from plants growing around a lair unless a) it was an omnivore, b) it was an ambush predator, c) it was hiding it's young.

or here's another example.  a presentient primate picks an orange from a tree, carries it away to eat it.  some of the seeds fall on the ground, while some are swallowed whole, pass through the digestive tract, and are deposited within nitrogen-rich dung.  the tree uses the monkey to spread it's offspring, while the monkey multiplies it's food supply.

[Caltrop]

Leng, your second scenario might be interesting for determining plant distribution on a planet, or somthing...

[slugfly]

I expect that creatures in your ecosystem will evolve based on the path that the original designer has made for them. I think it's possible that 'incomplete' creatures (ones that haven't finished the civilization stage), will not be uploaded to the servers and will not be downloaded.

creatures will be uploaded starting at least with the first 3D aquatic creatures.  They're used to fill out your world as soon as you leave microbial stage.

[Petike]

I expect that creatures in your ecosystem will evolve based on the path that the original designer has made for them. I think it's possible that 'incomplete' creatures (ones that haven't finished the civilization stage), will not be uploaded to the servers and will not be downloaded.

I think incomplete creatures can be uploaded and downloaded, maybe if they won't have an evolved version, they "die out".

[Petike]

I expect that creatures in your ecosystem will evolve based on the path that the original designer has made for them. I think it's possible that 'incomplete' creatures (ones that haven't finished the civilization stage), will not be uploaded to the servers and will not be downloaded.

creatures will be uploaded starting at least with the first 3D aquatic creatures.  They're used to fill out your world as soon as you leave microbial stage.

I hope the 2D singlecellar will be uploaded too.

[Charles Darwin]

Great thread and a bunch of excellent ideas. 
Just shows though how little we actually know of the game mechanics.

[Doomstrom]

Nice ideas, I hope they get right into the game

[slugfly]

we do know that creatures start uploading right after you get out of the microbial stage.  From the looks of the microbial stage it doesn't seem likely that any of those will get in, since they seem to be just the basic shapes and most of our basic shapes will be very very similar.  It's not till we get to 2d when the shapes we've chosen are given depth that we can start to see real differences.  That's assumption of course, but comparing the worlds (as opposed to the creatures) that we saw in 2005GDC, the 3d seems so much grander than the 2d...  it just would be weird to be running around as a microbe and come across a dozen other things that look almost identical to you.

[Petike]

we do know that creatures start uploading right after you get out of the microbial stage.  From the looks of the microbial stage it doesn't seem likely that any of those will get in, since they seem to be just the basic shapes and most of our basic shapes will be very very similar.  It's not till we get to 2d when the shapes we've chosen are given depth that we can start to see real differences.  That's assumption of course, but comparing the worlds (as opposed to the creatures) that we saw in 2005GDC, the 3d seems so much grander than the 2d...  it just would be weird to be running around as a microbe and come across a dozen other things that look almost identical to you.

Of course the 3D stage is more important, but we didn't see more from the microbial stage than the official pic. and the same at GDC with movings. It was half minute, and WW didn't say it isn't possible.(everything is possible what is not impossible)