Author Topic: Best ... RTS ... Ever!  (Read 9663 times)

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Offline Gaming Steve

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Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« on: May 06, 2005, 03:43:02 pm »
Okay, I see we're having a lot of fun discussing/aruging on the other topics as to what are some of the "best <blank> ever". So I thought it would be fun to make an official topic on this and start the ball rolling.

So let's start this one off with my favorate RTS ... EVER!

When RTS games were "all the rage" a few years ago I pretty much picked up every single one and played them to death. This is a very tricky one as there are just so many great RTS games: Dune II, Warcraft, Command & Conquer, Age of Empires. But the best RTS game ever is ...

Total Annihilation!

Oh man I loved that game! The game was in full 3D, Cavedog released a new unit every single week on their web site, there were like 250 units you could build, and the explosions were fantastic. Damn I loved that game, such a shame that Total Annihilation: Kingdoms was such a piece of crap...


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Offline Demorgora

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Re: Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2005, 04:25:02 pm »
Blitzkrieg is probably the best RTS out there right now.

Offline Cool AN

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Re: Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2005, 04:29:58 pm »
Shouldn't this be in the PC board?

And Rome: Total War is very good but I am not sure what my favourit RTS game is.

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Offline Demorgora

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Re: Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2005, 04:42:57 pm »
Shouldn't this be in the PC board?

And Rome: Total War is very good but I am not sure what my favourit RTS game is.

RTW was an overwhelming disappointment. It failed to live up to any of the standards that M:TW set. Not only that, but CA's refusal to fix the gamebreaking bugs in it because they aren't getting paid any more for it is just pathetic.

Offline Cool AN

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Re: Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2005, 04:44:47 pm »
Shouldn't this be in the PC board?

And Rome: Total War is very good but I am not sure what my favourit RTS game is.

RTW was an overwhelming disappointment. It failed to live up to any of the standards that M:TW set. Not only that, but CA's refusal to fix the gamebreaking bugs in it because they aren't getting paid any more for it is just pathetic.

I have never played M:TW and I have not seen or been effected by these gamebreaking bugs you refer to.

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Offline Demorgora

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Re: Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2005, 04:47:33 pm »
Actually, yes, you have, but it is a subtle one. You see, after a save and reload, the computer completely forgets it build orders and strategy. It also affects other various things, but I haven't bothered to look.

In either case, It is hardcoded, so there is nothing anyone can do about it since CA won't fix it.

Offline Zealousy

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Re: Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2005, 04:52:09 pm »
Does Battlezone 2 count? ;D
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Offline Cool AN

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Re: Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2005, 04:55:11 pm »
It really isn't CA decision it is Activision since they own all the rights and it is them that pay for the patchs.

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Offline Tr0n

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Re: Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2005, 07:31:57 pm »
Command and Conquer started everything and I spent MONTHS playing that one.  I even "hacked it" so I could play those dinosaur levels.

However, while it provides the fondest memories, I think my favorite true RTS is Total Annihilation, just like Steve.  There's just something about holing up in your base with fifteen or twenty Buzzsaw turrents raining hell on a disputed zone.

Hybrid RTS games, however, houses it's own Gem... as mentioned before, Battlezone 2 takes the cake.  I still play it today.
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Offline bwl2

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Re: Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2005, 07:37:00 pm »
Romw total war ;D
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Offline Gaming Steve

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Re: Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2005, 09:09:10 pm »
Does Battlezone 2 count? ;D

Ah crap, I totally forgot about that game. Yeah, game was freaking great, but I would still put TA just a bit above Battlezone 2.

I loved the physics in Battlezone 2, but the interface was freaking nuts!
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Offline Therlun

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Re: Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2005, 02:20:44 am »
So many fanatics claim that TA is a great RTS game.
Sadly it is very hard to come by, at least where i live... :(

They only place to find it is ebay, and then you are confronted with 26 different versions of the game. :rolleyes:
« Last Edit: May 07, 2005, 02:23:01 am by Therlun »
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Offline Lord Janos

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Re: Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2005, 03:15:07 am »
Age of Mythology (original, not expansion).  Played it everyday for well over a year and was pretty damn good at it too!  Played with some quality people and felt that ES genuinely cared about the game and it's community. 

Offline Gil

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Re: Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2005, 03:23:58 am »
command and conquer, and warcraft one and two

Offline Legodragonxp

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Re: Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2005, 05:34:05 am »
I'll agree with Total Annihilation (actually I think I mentioned this program somewhere else in the forums if I recall). If you ware look for a copy to play (its in the cheap bins in some places still) you 'should' get the following:

Totoal Annihilation
Total Annihilation:Battle Tactics (expansion)
Total Annihilation: Core Contingency (expansion)
The final (official) patch.3.1c

After that there are still tons of extra untis out there that you can download (I rarely used them as they often unbalanced play.

TA had tons of freatures and a fairly simple interface. Many RTSs had some of these features, but not all. Example of features that made the game:
-The terrain was 3D. If you wanted to protect you building from fire you had better build them behind hills
-Multiple unit building queues. If you wanted a factory to build five fighters, then three bombers, then a radar plane, then five more fighters you just clicked on the buttons in the facotry menu in that order and that is what you got.
-Resources very show easily for what you needed and how fast you made them (only two resources Energy and Metal) per unit.
-Indirect atrillery! You can call fire from across the map. If you scouts find soething you can use long range guns to destroy it.
-Submarines, ships, hovercraft, tanks, robots, aircraft... only think missing was orbital hardware.
-Unlimited map size. What would be a huge map in Warcraft or C&C was a small to medium map in TA. I've played maps that took you 30 minutes to drive across
-250 units limit default. Simple ta.ini change will bring it to up to 500 (with ten armies you had up to 5000 units duking it out)
-ORDER QUEUE! - Hold shift down and order your units around. Program them on pcomplex patrols. In some cases you could even program in contingency orders. Factories could be programmed to build units that automatically sent them on a combat patrol (very handy for fighters and such). I think the limit was 256 orders per unit. If you selected a unit with orders already assigned you could add additional orders (need to expand you fighter patrols? no problem.
-Forest fires. So, you want to hide in the forest. Go ahead, but it might cause a drifting forest fire to damage you.
-Variable gravity. Some weapons are greatly affected by gravity, your artillery has a short or longer range. Some units would slow down.
-Resource sharing, unit donating, team changing in play,etc...

I could go on, but I've never seen another game with the combination of controls, units, terrain, and enviroments.

-Lego

Offline Legodragonxp

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Re: Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2005, 05:38:11 am »
Oh, do not confuse this with TOTAL ANNIHILATION: KINGDOMS which came out later. When released it was a total dog. I think they finally patched it to the point that it was playable, but most people had given up on it. It was TA/Warcraft. Save your money
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Offline UndeadScottsman

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Re: Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2005, 05:26:15 pm »
Actually, wasn't TA not full 3D?  The units were full 3D, but the levels were pre-rendered images with programmed "depth" maps on them to units know where slopes and stuff were.  There's a freeware version of TA running around that's FULL 3D though.  I think it's called "Spring" or something.

Anywho, for my money, there's never been a better RTS than StarCraft.  Awesome balance between the three unique sides, fantastic storyline, great graphics even today.  (One of the good things about using sprites :D) and is probably not only my favorite RTS, but one of my Top 5 greatest games of all time.

Offline syphonbyte

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Re: Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2005, 10:22:27 pm »
I've been wanting to get TA for some time, but never got around to it... problems like crashing hard drives always seem to get in the way...

Anyhow, my favorite RTS has got to be Age of Empires II with the Conquerors expansion. Man, that is some fun stuff. Although I do like a bit of Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds now and then, despite the *ahem* antiquated graphics.

Offline bwl2

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Re: Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2005, 05:34:29 am »
I also love starcraft  ;D. Its an old game that never loses its charm. And can be difficult if played with other people. For instance, Me and my friend played on the fastest possible map ever!, for 1 hour and 40 min and we had to call it a draw because neither of us could kill each other. ;D I was protoss he was terran.
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Offline Legodragonxp

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Re: Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2005, 07:34:23 am »
ACK! Falshbacks! Ok, for those of you not around during the days of TA and Starcraft's early days, there was an almost religious extremeism comparing TA to Starcraft. Having played both I can see why people would side with one or the other.

Starcraft is a less complicated game. At LAN parties the games usually last 30-60 minutes and then you can start up a new game. Bandwidth needs were small.

TA is a much more complicated game. At a LAN party a ten player games can last for hours (8 hours is my longest single LAN party game (Seven Islands map for the curious)). Large games could bog down a 10mbit network when you had 2000 units battling away, 100mbit connectivity is a must to avoid slowdowns (put in context of the time, that was expansive (4-port 10/100 autosensing hubs were $150+))

What killed Starcraft for me was the lmited 'grouping' sizes for your armies (nine units max if I recall, its been a few years).
TA had the ability to group units in sizes from 1 to 500.

There is only one feature of RTSs that I have seen that I like that TA didn't have. The abllity to assign a unit to more than one group (ala Impossible Creatures and Dawn Of War).

To address the 'true 3d' of TA. The earlier discription of the terrain is about right. The map is a topographical surface (above and below water). Units were 3D models. You still played from overhead view however. There is no 'camera' like in Myth, Dawn of War, BattelZone, etc... The battle were fought in a 3D world, were as Starcraft/Warcraft are 2D.

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Offline bwl2

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Re: Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2005, 09:41:50 am »
I cant explain to you guys how much Starcraft rocks
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Offline Tr0n

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Re: Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2005, 11:03:17 am »
I LOVED Starcraft, but it was a little too linear, like all Blizzard games.  Now some ppl like the structure, but TA had so many units (while I didn't use much of them, I still had the illusion) and a wide open method of gameplay.  It's less polished, but I liked the gameplay more.
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Offline Zealousy

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Re: Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2005, 06:15:38 pm »
This thread's inspired me to reinstall and patch Battlezone 2. I know a couple years ago people were still playing this game online. Hopefully I'll find a game without much problem. ;D
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Offline DevilMachine

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Re: Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2005, 08:31:44 pm »
i feel sad now, ive never played TA or starcraft.
the first RTS i ever played was Command & Conquer.
I enjoy the Age of games and the warcraft series aswell.

Offline Tr0n

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Re: Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2005, 09:33:07 pm »
C&C came out well before Starcraft or TA.  Starcraft is beautiful and I think it's the best in Blizzard's RTS menu.  TA was just a frantic experience.  I've never before or since had 300 units of all types and power heading to my base while the opposite base was launching a first strike of nukes.  I remember panicking as my anti-nukes launched so fast and my reserves quickly closed to zero.  Just as one of my last anti-nukes launched, my opposition ran out of nukes himself.  my defenses then proceeded to thrash the enemy, unopposed.

Ahh, the good ole days.

If you missed Starcraft, TA, and Battlezone 2, get em somehow.  They're old, but they're they defined genres or combinations thereof.
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Offline Legodragonxp

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Re: Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« Reply #25 on: May 09, 2005, 06:06:28 am »
Ah the memories (of TA)
-Commander kidnappings (before the days of GTA... :) )
-Contstruction Unit Kidnappings (if you took the other sides construction units you could build anything in the game you wanted from either team :) :) :) )
-PeeWee rushes, lots of guys with automatic plasma guns, little armor (think eastern front 1942)
-Big Bertha artillery attacks (or buzz saws)
-Nukes and EMP weapons (Freeze-Frame! Da da da daddle a da da...)
-Gunship raids aka 'Ode to a base I found with no flak turrets'
-Recycling your kills for the metal! "Thanks for sending that single huge tank that died right away, I needed the metal"
-Pop up turrets and tri-barrel lasers
-Reconnaissance-by-fire. "I can't see in that area, but my guns can reach. No civilians to worry about, lets see if anything blows up."
-Spressive fire - If there was an area you didn't want someone coming through you could order guns to pound the tar out if constantly.

More Advanced:
-Coordinated pin-point airstirkes, 'Shock and Awe' was nothing new to experienced TA players
-Coordinated air-assaults, watching a dozen airtransports dropping heavy tanks (or worse) on a spot and hitting the enemy rear... OH YEAH!)
-Construction unit patrols, guarding factories for higher output
-Minefield for fun and mayhem
-Planned dying in enemy construction sites "Now I see why you let that tank die in my base, you're blocking the door to the unit factory"

Ah, the memories...
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« Last Edit: May 09, 2005, 07:35:07 am by Legodragonxp »

Offline Jecrell

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Re: Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« Reply #26 on: May 09, 2005, 06:20:04 am »
I loved Starcraf to death because it was so very customizable -- I remember playing "The Thing" and we'd always yell at newbies "Nooo don't go that way" and then the player died before getting into the main building... then we'd have to start over because he was "The Thing." I spent long evenings enjoying guessing who was lieing and who was telling the truth -- and once in a while enjoying being "the thing" and turning off the power and hunting down the rest. That kind of psychological gameplay gave me chills... because we all had the same team color and no one could tell who was who exactly.

They had several remakes of that map -- and they all sucked except for the original. The remakes captured a very different feeling, and it didn't feel like a custom map at all so much as a Starcraft-version of psychological horror and everyone knew who the Thing was at all times.

My favorite RTS -- I hate to say it -- was Lord of the Rings Battle for Middle Earth (I think 2004 version)...
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Offline lemurbouy

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Re: Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« Reply #27 on: May 09, 2005, 07:42:25 am »
Has to be Star Wars Galactic Battlegrounds for me.  I just have to kill wookies, ewoks and gungans with AT-ATs.  I just have to. -leeman

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Re: Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2005, 09:32:23 am »
I have to throw my hat in with Total Annihilation on this one.  First PC game I ever bought, got it before I could even run it.  I only wish the AI was better on some of the campaing maps.  Some were really hard and took me hours to beat, others were really easy, with the computer building nothing.  I did manage to beat the Core campaing on Hard difficulty.  I need to check out Spring Break, the 3D semi-remake (no campaing, only skirmishes). 

I also have to throw in an honorable mention for Myth: The Fallen Lords.  The only game I played obsessivley online on a 56k modem.  It ran suprissingly well.  It was deffintaly a different flavor of RTS though.  No unit building or bases. Just the units you start with, which made games really short, like 10 minutes.  You had to realy on formations a lot too, otherwise you would get slaughtered.  I still remember charging another player with all of my unites while he only had just over half of his left.  He crushed me because I ignored any type of tactics.  I long for the early days of Bungie where they waited for a game to be finished to release it.

I will have to try this Battlezone 2 you speak of. 

To many old games to re visit, to many new games to play.  I need time to just stop for a year so I can catch up.

Offline PineappleTheHun

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Re: Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2005, 10:48:46 am »
AOE2: The Conquerors Expansion wins this hands-down for me.
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Offline Psilontech

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Re: Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« Reply #30 on: May 09, 2005, 12:57:01 pm »
I'm not that into RTS, but of the games I own, I would have to say that starcraft is the best of them, gotta love bnet! :)
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Offline madpoet

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Re: Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« Reply #31 on: May 09, 2005, 04:48:27 pm »
Gotta go with the TA.  It's one of the only games I've ever bought that I got multiple copies of and gave away to people.  Combining air, land, AND sea battles?  Fuggedaboutit!  I still have it installed on my computer - love the Shore to Shore map.  Maybe after I get through with finals (meaning, this weekend), I'll have to work my way through Core Contingency again.
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Offline CustodianV131

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Re: Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2005, 03:21:04 pm »
TA was and is great!

Kingdoms was a let down imo, but so loved the gameplay of TA.

Spend far to much time on it back then :)
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Offline Danzik

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Re: Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« Reply #33 on: May 17, 2005, 02:54:08 am »
Going to have to go with StarCraft on this one.  Reminded me of the time I was in Korea and played some of the local kids there.  !!!I was scary how fast I got crushed.  I got builder drone rushed and annihalated.  Great fun though.

Offline bwl2

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Re: Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« Reply #34 on: May 20, 2005, 03:17:04 pm »
Starcraft is awsome  ;D easy enough to learn alot of play
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Offline Stromko

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Re: Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« Reply #35 on: May 27, 2005, 05:40:56 pm »
Tough to decide, I enjoyed TA a lot in the old days and WH40K: Dawn of War is a lot of fun(especially with the half-scale mod), but I'm going to go with Rise of Nations.

The formations are such a break from most RTS games where units clump together, it rewards complex multi-formation tactics where you cover your army's flanks with other armies, protecting your cannons and flanks was of paramount importance. And yet it wasn't a perfectionist tactical game, if you screwed up you could just try to hold out until you've got another army ready to deploy.

To me it stands out as one of the few games with a rock-paper-scissors balance that ISN'T contrived and illogical. I'd say my favorite phase was around the Imperial/Napoleonic times, where firearms and cannons made formations extremely important yet the war moved slowly enough to keep track of things.

I was horrible at the naval game of it though, to be honest, I f***ing hate fireships. :) I would usually just sneak around with my immense armies in transport boats, and try to land where they least expected it... or in the modern era, I'd have a fair number of warships and just keep them concentrated in a small area, and use a few or dozens of fully-loaded carriers to protect the fleet and ANNIHILATE any cities or fortresses they could reach with immense concentrated squadron attacks.

edit: Another major thing I enjoyed about Rise of Nations was that you built cities and industry, not just bases. It gave me more of a feel of leading a culture, I got much more attached to cities and the whole territory and resource acquisition part of it really appealed to me. It's not a real old game yet, I think you can still find the deluxe pack with the original and the expansion for 30$ or so at any good game store.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2005, 05:45:13 pm by Stromko »

Offline CustodianV131

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Re: Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« Reply #36 on: June 18, 2005, 02:14:07 am »
Anyone know where I can find the new fanmade version of TA?

With all the news about Supreme Commander I'm looking for the TA feeling again :)

Edit:

Found it:

http://spring.clan-sy.com/
« Last Edit: June 18, 2005, 05:07:45 am by CustodianV131 »
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Offline IscariotJ

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Re: Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« Reply #37 on: June 19, 2005, 08:30:07 am »
I would have to go with TA, though I did have a lot of fun playing TA:K, especially Boneyards, the online element of it.  In it's final form, TA:K was an enoyable game.  I think that Cavedog were a company before their time, their demise was a shame.

For some reason, WarCraft3/Frozen Throne keeps me coming back for more.


Offline zaphod

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Re: Best ... RTS ... Ever!
« Reply #38 on: June 20, 2005, 06:33:07 am »
I would have to go with TA, though I did have a lot of fun playing TA:K, especially Boneyards, the online element of it.  In it's final form, TA:K was an enoyable game.  I think that Cavedog were a company before their time, their demise was a shame.

For some reason, WarCraft3/Frozen Throne keeps me coming back for more.



I did not care for TA:K.  I think it has to do with the fact that every thing fellt so artifical, like they were animals but the moved like robots.  Been playing TA again lately.  One think I find I also like about the origonal was the weapon trajectories.