Author Topic: Evolution of your Culture, a partial theory  (Read 2555 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Stromko

  • Phoenix Fighter
  • **
  • Posts: 164
    • View Profile
Evolution of your Culture, a partial theory
« on: April 08, 2005, 03:28:23 am »
There's really no way to know at this point, but I just got a theory of how your culture may evolve through gameplay, based on what very little we know thus far.

Apparently the Rack of Spears object will make your people more warlike, the Drums more creative or peaceful, so what if these are part of a much broader range of objects that effect all manner of things in your culture? I'll call them, for the point of reference, Tokens. I am also going to make theories about all the different properties your culture can have, above and beyond simply being warlike or peaceful.

Tokens operate by having your people interact with or carry them, they may have an immediate effect on what actions they are likely to perform(spears make their interactions more violent) but they will also have a longterm impact on your culture. Drums will cause an immediate action of having your people make music, but also will have a longterm impact.

But these wouldn't be the only things, because such things are really only a shallow slice of how a culture works, is it not? What about Leadership and Governance? What about Social Heirarchies? What about Community or Selfishness?  What about Economic Models?

So let's say you can put down a Token of Leadership. This is maybe a jeweled scepter or a stick with some pretty feathers on it or a bucket of ceremonial donkeycrap, but the important distinction is this object says of the one who carries it, "I am in control." If you have one creature carry this, then you will have one leader in your tribe, with all other individuals being equal to one another. Based on how the leader treats them and how they treat the leader, it is determined how ruthless this control shall be.

But you are not restricted to only one Token of Leadership. Perhaps you will give four of them, one to each of the oldest members of the tribe, or one to a chosen member of each separate village. Perhaps you put down no Tokens of Leadership at all for a completely equal culture; or perhaps you put down different 'grades' of Leadership Tokens, each lower in the heirarchy than another, to perhaps create a kind of feudal society, or a society where the population is slave to a minority who are handed these tokens. Perhaps there is even a way to give these tokens based on merit or popularity?

In all of these cases, the behavior that you encourage from the leaders and from the followers will determine the nature of it, whether those of superior station are unquestioned brutes or enlightened elders.

Example: A single being that is given the Leadership Token and never works another day in their life as they are slavishly doted on by the workers, and where there is no creativity exhibited whatsoever, will create for instance a society like a hive insect, especially if the leader eventually is a blood relative of all members of the tribe.

Conversely, a single being that is given the Leadership Token but continues to work (possibly in a coordinating role) and treats the other tribespeople with respect, will create a society where commoners have many rights and privileges and the leader rules mainly by agreement.

I'm sure the system that Spore uses will be totally different, I just put this out as food for thought.



Offline Nic

  • Space Invaders Junkie
  • *
  • Posts: 53
    • View Profile
Re: Evolution of your Culture, a partial theory
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2005, 04:09:53 am »
This actually seems pretty likely based on the info we've seen, but that may just be hopeful thinking on my part.

Offline lemurbouy

  • Defender Devotee
  • ***
  • Posts: 430
  • oh my...
    • View Profile
    • Leeman's Livejournal!
Re: Evolution of your Culture, a partial theory
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2005, 11:37:04 am »
It's a pretty picture and I hope we see something approximately similar to it.  I really like the idea of playing around with cultures using aspects of the game rather than setting sliders and numbers for everything.  -leeman

Offline Scipion

  • Stargate Superstar
  • ****
  • Posts: 658
  • Returned from the grave, now with more immunities!
    • View Profile
Re: Evolution of your Culture, a partial theory
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2005, 07:46:39 pm »
I wonder what would ahve happened if Will Wright had set down baskets instead of spears...would his creatures have turned into gatherers? However eventually falling prey to warlike creatures unless they where able to somehow barter the invaders away.
-Just like Gaming Steve all of my ideas, suggestions, and comments are merely edjucated guesses. These are based on prior experience and current released info.-

Offline Stromko

  • Phoenix Fighter
  • **
  • Posts: 164
    • View Profile
Re: Evolution of your Culture, a partial theory
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2005, 01:05:05 am »

There would probably be many tradeoffs involved in cultures, I would imagine warlike species won't really have every advantage in defeating other species. I hope there is a multi-tiered system, it would be very very cool to see a societal model as complex as Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri for instance.

Perhaps you'll have many different scales each with multiple overlapping effects, firstly you've got Pacifist---Aggressive (Multiplying or Fighting), Thinker---Worker (Science/Production), Achiever---Family (Production or Multiplying), and Hunter---Gatherer (Fighting or Production).

That's just a crude idea though, I hope they figure out some better idea or just have a lot more scales, and choose concepts that are more mutually exclusive. For instance, your species might value personal achievement -and- having as many kids as possible would be part of that, therefore Achiever and Family aren't mutually exclusive. It'd probably have to be a system where ALL these values are competing for the same limited space.

It's possible with these 'tokens' we've seen so far (such as Spear racks, etc), we might get exactly that, an organic way for all of these values to compete with eachother.

Another thing I was thinking of for my first post(but I wanted to keep it kinda short), was having Ownership tokens associated with different buildings, and so you could set up either a feudal corporate sort of system if these tokens are given out in different 'grades' that reign over eachother, or place them out all in equal value and it'll be more of a normal capitalistic system, maybe combine these with Leadership tokens to determine it further. Perhaps that's a bit complicated, but I'm just thinking how you'll tell your people what kind of economic system you want; probably a primitive, tribal communism would be the starter, food going to whoever needs it, etc, but later on you may choose to evolve different sytems or not. Maybe.

Offline RealmRPGer

  • Akalabeth Addict
  • **
  • Posts: 181
  • Tanket
    • View Profile
    • Realm Protectors
Re: Evolution of your Culture, a partial theory
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2005, 03:56:38 am »
It's really interesting how everyone expects a complex structure from every aspect of a game that has so many full parts to it. That's not saying there won't be nor shouldn't be SOME complexity to the culture, but, in the very least, I would give Wright a hard time if the cultures don't have a million branches. It's a game about evolution as a whole, not culture and society like most other games out there.

Offline Stromko

  • Phoenix Fighter
  • **
  • Posts: 164
    • View Profile
Re: Evolution of your Culture, a partial theory
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2005, 05:20:22 am »

What we know is that the Will's tripod-reptiles walked around however they please and were probably pacifistic, whereas the neighboring city that attacked him had orderly folks that walked in straight lines and who were very warlike. Now from that, we actually don't have proof of a whole lot of depth, but at least it is a glimmer that you can have different personalities for your creatures. My hope is they will develop this further so it is almost as engaging of a customization as the creature-creation tools themselves.

That said, they're already going to let us customize buildings and vehicles and all that, so there won't be a total lack of creativity in the post-evolution eras. It all comes down to whether Maxis is going to leave it at that, or create a deep system for societies as well. It would be boring(in the sentient phases) if every type of creature interacts with its fellows following the same rules, IE, pretty much identical societies.

Offline Hydromancerx

  • Master of Orion
  • *****
  • Posts: 12395
  • Klaatu Barada Nikto!
    • View Profile
    • Sagan 4
Re: Evolution of your Culture, a partial theory
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2006, 12:37:05 am »
I wonder what would ahve happened if Will Wright had set down baskets instead of spears...would his creatures have turned into gatherers? However eventually falling prey to warlike creatures unless they where able to somehow barter the invaders away.

Hmm that's a good question. And are the spears just for hunting? What about like spear fishing? or maybe they might practice hunting on a plant or even play fight each other and or course battle another tribe. It will be intering to see all the behviors from just one plopable object.

Offline King-Dumb

  • Asteroids Aficionado
  • **
  • Posts: 105
  • I spy with my little eye...
    • View Profile
Re: Evolution of your Culture, a partial theory
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2006, 09:15:18 am »
I wonder what would have happened if Will Wright had set down baskets instead of spears...would his creatures have turned into gatherers? However eventually falling prey to warlike creatures unless they where able to somehow barter the invaders away.

But then could you have baskets and spears? Would they then become hunter gatherers and be in the middle of warlike and peacefull?
It's only a matter of time before Sporepedia has a highpopulation than the Earth, and when that day comes, there will be much rejoicing.

Offline Penguin

  • Mystery House Madman
  • **
  • Posts: 205
    • View Profile
Re: Evolution of your Culture, a partial theory
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2006, 09:53:43 am »
Will Wright said that during the Tribal Stage you would be developing your culture by using objects like drums. And one scale we do know of is logical vs emotional. He mentioned all of this in the '05 GDC video.