Author Topic: Gasping for Air  (Read 12362 times)

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Offline starshard0

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Re: Gasping for Air
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2006, 05:03:27 pm »
well, the reason that the creature exploded is due to differences in internal vs. external pressure. For example, all human beings are used to living with a pressure of 1 atm at all times; that is our bodies push outward constantly with a pressure of 1 atm to balance the pressure of the atmosphere on us- effectively there is no net pressure. But once we go out into space, there is no 1 atm pushing in on us, so our 1 atm of pressure pushing outward basically turns us to cosmic spaghetti.
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Offline mrodgers

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Re: Gasping for Air
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2006, 05:08:03 am »
well, the reason that the creature exploded is due to differences in internal vs. external pressure. For example, all human beings are used to living with a pressure of 1 atm at all times; that is our bodies push outward constantly with a pressure of 1 atm to balance the pressure of the atmosphere on us- effectively there is no net pressure. But once we go out into space, there is no 1 atm pushing in on us, so our 1 atm of pressure pushing outward basically turns us to cosmic spaghetti.

Sorry thats not the case.  If it was then when a person went to a high place like say Everest, they would expand or similarly, on Skylab (an old space station), the pressure was kept very low to help prevent issues with leaks and punctures.  In neither case does a person expand.  A person can survive for a time in space (though with some injuries).  There were actually tests done by NASA early on in its program to test that fact. 

I think that in SPORE the creature exploded because it was a great way to show the planet wasn't habitable.  And besides it was funny and looked good.  Make up any explanation you want to fit it.  I will just settle for sweet revenge against those other tribes who try to attack me. <cue evil laugh>
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Offline slugfly

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Re: Gasping for Air
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2006, 05:14:44 am »
as to why the creature exploded, total vaccuum is a good enough lay-reason for me.

as to different types of atmospheres.

Of course we know there will be oxygen atmosphere (dominant not pure)
if there are different types it's a good guess there will be carbon monoxide atomsphere (hence making a need to introduce plants before introducing life) and probably there will be a methane atmosphere.  As to whether or not creatures can be designed to live in these other two atmospheres...  who knows...

Offline BioCat

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Re: Gasping for Air
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2006, 05:30:47 am »
I guess you guys make sense but I also can see a possibly that there will be diffrent kinds of atmosphere.

I mean, how hard is it to create such feature? with a little luck I think we will see at list a minor atmosphere factor.

Offline Brutus

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Re: Gasping for Air
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2006, 10:15:17 am »
actually in a vacuum, you explode because air pressure is required to hold you together, it sounds stupid but its true, trust me on this one.
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Re: Gasping for Air
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2006, 12:47:23 pm »
well, the reason that the creature exploded is due to differences in internal vs. external pressure. For example, all human beings are used to living with a pressure of 1 atm at all times; that is our bodies push outward constantly with a pressure of 1 atm to balance the pressure of the atmosphere on us- effectively there is no net pressure. But once we go out into space, there is no 1 atm pushing in on us, so our 1 atm of pressure pushing outward basically turns us to cosmic spaghetti.

Sorry thats not the case. If it was then when a person went to a high place like say Everest, they would expand or similarly, on Skylab (an old space station), the pressure was kept very low to help prevent issues with leaks and punctures. In neither case does a person expand. A person can survive for a time in space (though with some injuries). There were actually tests done by NASA early on in its program to test that fact.

I think that in SPORE the creature exploded because it was a great way to show the planet wasn't habitable. And besides it was funny and looked good. Make up any explanation you want to fit it. I will just settle for sweet revenge against those other tribes who try to attack me. <cue evil laugh>
People DO expand on Everest. If I was to say, take a bag of potato chips from sea level to the top of mount everest, the bag would be much more inflated then when I had started. Same goes with humans, that's why they have to camp out around the lower parts of the mountain for a few weeks (to get acclimated) before they start climbing. When astronauts go into space, they have to go through rigorous training to get their body acclimated as well. Acclimated is the key word here I think. Since the creature immediately went from a spaceship of maybe 1 atm to a place with 0, it reacted very badly.
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Offline Tarrasque

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Re: Gasping for Air
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2006, 01:10:20 pm »
actually in a vacuum, you explode because air pressure is required to hold you together, it sounds stupid but its true, trust me on this one.

No we don't trust you on this one.  ;)  Our bodies do not "push outwardly" under atmospheric pressure. If that would be the case, we would implode under the sea. People can dive 200 meters down and more, did you know that? This is 20 times atmospheric pressure, where does all the awsome force some from that pushes it all out against the water? And fish would explode if brought to the surface. They don't. Even deep sea creatures accustomed to pressures of hundreds of atmospheres do not explode. Only the pressure bubble they use to maintain depth ruptures. Their bodies look the same. The material of their, and our, bodies is firm enough to not be affected.

Quote
People DO expand on Everest. If I was to say, take a bag of potato chips from sea level to the top of mount everest, the bag would be much more inflated then when I had started. Same goes with humans, that's why they have to camp out around the lower parts of the mountain for a few weeks (to get acclimated) before they start climbing. When astronauts go into space, they have to go through rigorous training to get their body acclimated as well. Acclimated is the key word here I think. Since the creature immediately went from a spaceship of maybe 1 atm to a place with 0, it reacted very badly.

People have to acclimatize not because they would expand, but because you don't have enough oxygen up there. What follows is
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altitude_sickness. Being exposed to a complete vacuum leads just to the ultimate form of altitude sickness: You suffocate. Altitude sickness can be completely avoided by breathing oxygen out of flasks.

Explosive decompression, ie, a sudden loss of pressure, is the most dangerous. Your lungs can be seriously injured. This is also one of the effects of the Fuel-Air-Explosive (FAE), also callled "thermobaric" or "vacuum" bomb. It is banned by several UN conventions (Hague, Geneva, Nuremberg, Human Rights) as a particulary cruel weapon. Besides the explosion and shockwave, it is so powerful that it creates a vacuum in a wide area, sucking out the air in people's lungs, and injuring them severlely, and as soime horror stories suggest, even the lungs themselves can be sucked out.

It is so powerful that there are reservations to use it in a conventional war because it can be interpreted as a nuclear attack! Despite the bans, it is and was widely used by Russia and the US ("daisy-cutter"), and not only to create helicopter landing zones in the jungle.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2006, 01:20:59 pm by Tarrasque »
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Offline starshard0

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Re: Gasping for Air
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2006, 01:14:12 pm »
Well that explains it then. Still, I wonder why Will had the creature explod on the planet. It looked cool I guess, but still there wasn't much of a scientific basis for it.
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Offline Tonjevic

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Re: Gasping for Air
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2006, 01:20:24 pm »
actually in a vacuum, you explode because air pressure is required to hold you together, it sounds stupid but its true, trust me on this one.

No we don't trust you on this one. ;) Our bodies do not "push outwardly" under atmospheric pressure. If that would be the case, we would implode under the sea. People can dive 200 meters down and more, did you know that? This is 20 times atmospheric pressure, where does all the awsome force some from that pushes it all out against the water? And fish would explode if brought to the surface. They don't. Even deep sea creatures accustomed to pressures of hundreds of atmospheres do not explode. Only the pressure bubble they use to maintain depth ruptures. Their bodies look the same. The material of their, and our, bodies is firm enough to not be affected.

Quote
People DO expand on Everest. If I was to say, take a bag of potato chips from sea level to the top of mount everest, the bag would be much more inflated then when I had started. Same goes with humans, that's why they have to camp out around the lower parts of the mountain for a few weeks (to get acclimated) before they start climbing. When astronauts go into space, they have to go through rigorous training to get their body acclimated as well. Acclimated is the

People have to acclimatize not because they would expand, but because you don't have enough oxygen up there. What follows is
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altitude_sickness. Being exposed to a complete vacuum leads just to the ultimate form of altitude sickness: You suffocate. Altitude sickness can be completely avoided by breathing oxygen out of flasks.

Explosive decompression, ie, a sudden loss of pressure, is the most dangerous. Your lungs can be seriously injured. This is also one of the effects of the Fuel-Air-Explosive (FAE), also callled "thermobaric" or "vacuum" bomb. It is banned by several UN conventions (Hague, Geneva, Nuremberg, Human Rights) as a particulary cruel weapon. Besides the explosion and shockwave, it is so powerful that it creates a vacuum in a wide area, sucking out the air in people's lungs, and injuring them severlely, and as soime horror stories suggest, even the lungs themselves can be sucked out.

It is so powerful that there are reservations to use it in a conventional war because it can be interpreted as a nuclear attack! Despite the bans, it is and was widely used by Russia and the US ("daisy-cutter"), and not only to create helicopter landing zones in the jungle.

Fankly, you, sir, are an idiot.
Read up on it. It is perfectly true.
As an example, why do people have to acclimatise and de-pressurise before coming up from deep-ocean dives?
Because they have to let thier bodies, and the nitrogen bubbles in thier bloodstream decompress slowly and unviolently (Not doing so results in an extremely painful phenomenon known as the bends.).
This can be seen, and is illustrated extremely well in certain species of deep sea fish, and remnants of ship-wrecks that explode upon being brought to the surface fo the water.
The same principle applies to going into a vacuum. It is all about pressure. Before you spout garbage, and make a fool of yourself, make sure your arguments are credible.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2006, 01:23:05 pm by Tonjevic »

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Offline starshard0

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Re: Gasping for Air
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2006, 01:27:46 pm »
Oh... so, who's right?
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Offline Tarrasque

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Re: Gasping for Air
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2006, 01:48:21 pm »

Fankly, you, sir, are an idiot.
Read up on it. It is perfectly true.
As an example, why do people have to acclimatise and de-pressurise before coming up from deep-ocean dives?
Because they have to let thier bodies, and the nitrogen bubbles in thier bloodstream decompress slowly and unviolently (Not doing so results in an extremely painful phenomenon known as the bends.).
This can be seen, and is illustrated extremely well in certain species of deep sea fish, and remnants of ship-wrecks that explode upon being brought to the surface fo the water.
The same principle applies to going into a vacuum. It is all about pressure. Before you spout garbage, and make a fool of yourself, make sure your arguments are credible.

Uh oh. Where to begin?

1. The question is whether people explode in vacuum. My analogy was that we don't implode when going deep and that fish don't explode when coming up. I am very much aware of the bends, but the bends does not mean that divers "explode into deep sea spaghetti", nor do they expand. Rather, nitrogen bubbles form in the victim's bloodstream, with painful consequences. Note that these are still tiny bubbles of gas in your bloodstream, not explosion. This could also well happen in a vacuum, but you suffocate before decompression sickness kills you.

2. If fish explosions are illustrated extremely well, then by all means do it. If there are species that "explode" because of unique anatomy, which are they? And why do they explode?

3. "Remnants of shipwrecks". I hope you mean the people who went down with the ship, or organisms that settled there.

4. "It's all about pressure". Dude, I have studied physics at university. Don't tell me about pressure. I have also worked in the space industry, met and talked to the actual doctors who do the pre flight examinations on the astronauts of the European Space Agency. I don't know what your issues are, but read others and my posts in the future.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2006, 01:55:32 pm by Tarrasque »
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Offline Skraeling

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Re: Gasping for Air
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2006, 01:59:00 pm »
Tarra wins the thread, and as far as I know is correct too.

also would you freeze to death before suffocating?
« Last Edit: March 29, 2006, 02:29:09 pm by Skraeling »

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Offline Tantalus

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Re: Gasping for Air
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2006, 02:03:59 pm »
Tarra wins the thread.

also would you freeze to death before suffocating?

Lol yeah I'll second that. Grade A burn right there.

Offline kmr

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Re: Gasping for Air
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2006, 04:10:27 pm »
Actual scientific facts in an internet argument?

OH SNAP. D:
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Offline Tantalus

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Re: Gasping for Air
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2006, 04:19:33 pm »
Yeah they seem to have used thermobaric bombs in afganistan, and by they I mean the US.

Supposedly terrorists are supposed to be working on their own versions of the bomb too.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2006, 04:22:20 pm by Tantalus »