Author Topic: Leave a Legacy Behind?  (Read 27093 times)

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Offline Pinstar

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Leave a Legacy Behind?
« on: April 26, 2005, 01:56:35 pm »
I know in the earlier part of the stages, tidepool, sea and land, you only control ONE creature. But it would be rather silly for just one of your creature to exist. When your creature evolves from one stage to the next, do you think they'll leave some un-evolved members of their race behind?

Just as we humans evolved from chimps, there are still chimps out there that are stuck in the 'animal stage'. I'm hoping this is the case in Spore.


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Offline kmr

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2005, 02:16:44 pm »
Except we didn't evolve from chimps, we evolved from a common ancestor. ;) Sorry, just nitpicking.

But I don't think we'll see any of this in spore. I believe it would certainly be possible, but I don't foresee it as part of the game. Needless complication, in my opinion.
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Offline snappledude21

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2005, 02:43:08 pm »
Why would that be a complication? It would kinda just be a reminder of where you were, and maybe you could use the extra little guys as grunts, or trade primatively with them, or protect them around your village.  Or even cooler, go drop off your primitive self on another planet and different environment and see what happened to them there.

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Offline Legodragonxp

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2005, 04:05:19 pm »
My guess is that as you progress you can save some of your 'earlier you' on a your HD or on the EA server. These will end up on a big list that you can pull from, or others can pull from, to add to the game. In theory, you might raid another planet with a less evolved version of you there pulled from the server. If you carried this thought through, it might also be possible to pick-up an earlier version of yourself and take a different evolutionary path. Just load up the drop-down list and go down to an older you, kind of a 'Elder scroll' :) :)
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Offline Tr0n

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2005, 10:39:04 pm »
The idea of a creature's history sounds tempting.  Since each creature description can fit in 1k of space, a race's entire evolutionary history could be recorded in just a few kilobytes (depending on the number of evolutions one goes through).  We already know duplicates of one's creature must exist in (at minimum) the land game.  Mating wasn't demonstrated before that point.  If mating is available from an early stage, I would definitely see unevolved or alternately-evolved creatures being present.  However, this sort of creates a paradox.  WHile you are evolving, every other item in the UNIVERSE must be evolving too.  That's a lotta CPU power :).  My guess is there will be limited evolution or some sort of natural selection put into place to keep populations down.  Wouldn't it be cool, though, to have some amoeba you meet in the tidepool stage end up crushing one of your cities millions of years later.  Shoulda eaten it then, huh?
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Offline Cobra

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2005, 01:33:38 am »
I assume that you would have a couple I always figured that each level would be saved to the server thingy plus on your own hard drive so they would be avalible to select as possible other animals to choose from.

Offline Stromko

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2005, 08:11:42 pm »
Although in the demonstration snapshots it looks like the other amoeba are all basically alike except for color, maybe in the final version all the other amoeba will be other players' creations. Thus, they could theoretically evolve right alongside you by following the history another player has alread defined for it; thus indeed, later on you may be have your city invaded by creatures that are strangely familiar. ;)

I don't see a definite reason you can't have ancient ancestors still inhabiting your planet when your species has evolved further on. Although it'd be kinda commonsense that your more evolved form has taken over the same niche, it's also true that species can go into a sort of evolutionary freeze when they perfectly fill a niche, look at the coelacanthe or crocodilians for instance; they haven't gone through a whole heck of a lot of evolution the last 50 million years or so have they?

I say all this based on the assumption that the game will have no built-in algorithm for evolving without player control. For all I know, the game may indeed have systems for automated evolution of species that are not under your control. If that were true, it would theoretically be possible to later on have to compete against an offshoot of your own species, like homo sapien vs the neanderthal. Probably they were offshoots of a common ancestors, and got to the point of tool use right alongside our own species, and then died out from competition or climate change or something.

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2005, 05:08:09 am »
I'm going to assume there are no autominous evolutions because they want the game to be as player created as possbile.

Offline craigp

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2005, 08:12:21 am »
I wouldn't be surprised if the amoeba stage was the exception, and DIDN'T have other player's content. After all, Pac-Man didn't have ANOTHER Pac-Man.

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Offline syphonbyte

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2005, 09:55:51 am »
Maybe they'll just randomly make other amoebas for you to eat (or be eaten by.)

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2005, 09:56:30 am »
I wouldn't be surprised if the amoeba stage was the exception, and DIDN'T have other player's content. After all, Pac-Man didn't have ANOTHER Pac-Man.

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Offline syphonbyte

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2005, 09:58:31 am »
Miss Pacman?

Who else just got a great idea for a race?

A whole bunch of pac-men who never really evolve past the amoeba stage, besides getting bigger.

Offline Cool AN

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2005, 10:03:05 am »
What should they do? Walk around?

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2005, 04:59:12 pm »
"My Life as a Single-celled Amoeba

I was drifting around one day, in the primordeal soup, trying out my new flagella for the very first time, when all of a sudden a protozoan swooped by and ate my brother...  I was never the same. :'("
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I'm sure I must have seen something like this somewhere, so I take no credit for it, only blame.   :D

Offline Legodragonxp

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2005, 08:19:37 am »
Spore: Psychiatric Nightmare

"The Elarians never managed to mutate beyond the single-cell level. When mitosis set in the mental health shamans killed the multi-celled creature for fears tied to cloning and multiple-single-personality disorder. Evidence that the shamans just thought that Bob was an @$$hole and having more than one of him around would be unbearable was never substantiated."

Offline Lord Janos

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2005, 10:40:17 am »
I know in the earlier part of the stages, tidepool, sea and land, you only control ONE creature. But it would be rather silly for just one of your creature to exist. When your creature evolves from one stage to the next, do you think they'll leave some un-evolved members of their race behind?

Just as we humans evolved from chimps, there are still chimps out there that are stuck in the 'animal stage'. I'm hoping this is the case in Spore.

We weren't evolved from chimps, in my opinion.  But i do like your idea.

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2005, 11:36:18 am »
We are not evolved from chimps. Hell, we share more dna with a cabbage than a chimp. We arn't even from the same offshoot as them. They are less evolved and everything evolves at the same speed. Given that they are in similar enough areas geographically then they would have evolved to the same style as us. Yet they arn't because we have been evolving for hundreds of thousands of years before chimps were even chimp-like.

Offline Pinstar

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2005, 01:23:33 pm »
Nit pick nit pick

Let me rephrase my statement


We were evolved from X. However despite our evolution, members of the X species still exist.

Happy?

I might not know evolutionary biology, but I do know math and logic.
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Offline Cool AN

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2005, 01:25:24 pm »
I don't really see the need for them what are they gonna do?

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Offline Lord Janos

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2005, 01:52:47 pm »
Nit pick nit pick

Let me rephrase my statement


We were evolved from X. However despite our evolution, members of the X species still exist.

I beg to differ - but that would turn the thread into a religious disagreement ;).  But yes, i see where you're coming from and it would be quite a nice little function to have in the game.

Offline syphonbyte

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2005, 03:54:24 pm »
Well, this game doesn't look like it's using the religious creation type idea as its basis. (Unless you call it intelligent design.)

Offline Legodragonxp

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2005, 07:21:22 pm »
Well, this game doesn't look like it's using the religious creation type idea as its basis. (Unless you call it intelligent design.)

There will be creationism... your PC will create planets and populate them in 6 nanoseconds... excerpt from the still unwritten game manual that nobody will read of Spore.

1 In the beginning Bill Gates created the PC and the OS.
2 And the OS was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of Format c:\ moved upon the face of the hard drive.
3 And Will Wright said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And Will saw the light, that it was good: and Will rezoned the light from the darkness.
5 And Will called the light Residential, and the darkness he called Industrial. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 And Will said, Let there be an expansion pack in the midst of the zones, and let it divide the highways from the waterways.
7 And Will made the Rush Hour, and divided the waters which were under the Regions from the waters which were above the Cities: and it was so.
8 And Will called the Expansion Pack Sim City4 Deluxe Edition. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 And Will said, Let the game go under the best selling titles and be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear for under twenty dollars: and it was so.
10 And Will called forth a new game on earth; and the gathering together of the players called he Sims, after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and newspapers yielding jobs after his kind, and the jobs yielding simoleans, whose cash was in itself, after his kind: and Will saw that it was good.
13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14 And Will said, Let there be lights in the Expanion Packs of the The Sims to divide the day from the night; and let them be for pets, and for magic, and for movie stars, and Hot Dates:
15 And let them be for cheap in the expansion pack section of the Wal-Mart to give light upon The Sim addicts: and it was so.
16 And Will made two great games; the greater light to rule The Sims, and the lesser light to rule the rest: he made the Spore Demo.
17 And Will set them in the mainstream of the media to give hope upon hope to the addicts wanting more,
18 And to rule over the media and over the forums, and to divide the SimCity people from the Sims people: and Will saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20 And Will said, Let the players bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open framework of game play.
21 And Players created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and WIll saw that it was good.
22 And Will blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the EA coffers with money, and my wallet with simoleans.
23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24 And Will said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the other players after his kind: and it was so.
25 And players made the beasts of their imagination after their image, and llamas after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and Players saw that it was good.
26 And Players said, Let us make monsters in our mind, after our imaginations whim: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the planet, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the planet.
27 So Will created UFOs for his own reasons, in the image of Saucers he created them; armed and unarmed he made them.
28 And Players blessed them, and Will said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and interact with other planets, and subdue them: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon those planets.
29 And Will said, Behold, I have given you every tool of creation, which is upon the face of all the planets, and every PC, in the which is the filesize shall be small; to you it shall be for file sharing.
30 And to every beast of the Spore collection, and to every species of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the planets, wherein there is life, I have given every CPU cycle for processing: and it was so.
31 And Will and the Players saw every thing that they had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2005, 07:29:07 pm by Legodragonxp »

Offline syphonbyte

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2005, 07:40:39 pm »
Brilliant!

32 And so Will said PARTAY DOWN HOMIES!
33 No he didn't.

Offline Lord Janos

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2005, 03:36:55 am »
Well, this game doesn't look like it's using the religious creation type idea as its basis. (Unless you call it intelligent design.)

That's all this game is:  A funky idea. 

Offline Legodragonxp

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2005, 06:34:54 am »
34 And EA saw every thing that Will was making, and, behold, it was very good, so good as to issue a gag order, so good as to even enforce a NDA. And the evening and the morning were the seventh day.
35 And the world fell silent and awaited E3.

Offline Pinstar

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #25 on: April 30, 2005, 01:34:39 pm »
WWWWD (What would Will Wright do?)

Amen!
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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2005, 10:18:41 pm »
Nit pick nit pick

Let me rephrase my statement


We were evolved from X. However despite our evolution, members of the X species still exist.

Happy?

I might not know evolutionary biology, but I do know math and logic.
That's exactly what I was trying to disprove...Evolved-X and X can't exsist together.

Offline syphonbyte

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2005, 08:47:58 am »
Are you sure? Coelocanths coexist with further evolved fish.

Offline meh

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2005, 03:38:22 pm »
Are you sure? Coelocanths coexist with further evolved fish.

Ok, but did the other fish evolve from the coelocanths?
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Offline craigp

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2005, 04:17:41 pm »
It looks like there's a bit of BAD SCIENCE creeping in on this evolution discussion. Evolution is one of the most powerful ideas to fully comprehend, and I scowl at you all from atop my ivory tower for not knowing it inside and out.

Evolution happens due to CHANGING CIRCUMSTANCES. It is rare that a situation will change globally. Usually, change is local. In fact, change is usually limited to areas which animals are trying to spread into, and does not much effect their 'ancestral locations'.

For example, there are dozens of kinds of mussels. Several of these species evolved specifically to live on human creations - such as boats and piers. The old mussels remained more or less untouched in their original watery habitats. Similarly, there are dozens of kinds of monkeys, each evolved to suit a particular environment. This doesn't mean that the old species is any LESS suited to THEIR environment, which probably still exists.

Evolution isn't, as most people think, a forward motion. It CAN make creatures more complex and 'advanced', but it's just as likely to simplify and 'deavolve' them. Usually, it does neither. Usually, it's simple changes such as fur color or tooth shape. To call anything in Spore 'evolution-based' would be wholly and in every way a misuse of the word.

For more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2005, 04:27:36 pm »
They might "leave a legacy" in the sence that your old generation becomes downloadable online  ;)
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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #31 on: May 02, 2005, 10:48:26 pm »
Evolution words
Didn't I say that? Like, just before. As in evolved X and X can't exsist in the same place?

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2005, 07:57:52 am »
Didn't I say that? Like, just before. As in evolved X and X can't exsist in the same place?

Well, they can exist in the same place, but different niches. For example, one kind of monkey evolved from a tree-dwelling monkey to live primarily on the ground. They exist in the same 'place', but different niches. Also, they could be in the process of competing over resources...

It's kind of a complicated gray zone.

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2005, 11:23:54 am »
Evolution isn't, as most people think, a forward motion. It CAN make creatures more complex and 'advanced', but it's just as likely to simplify and 'deavolve' them. Usually, it does neither. Usually, it's simple changes such as fur color or tooth shape. To call anything in Spore 'evolution-based' would be wholly and in every way a misuse of the word.

Usually? Well, who has been around long enough to see what evolution "usually" does...
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Offline craigp

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2005, 11:37:45 am »
Usually? Well, who has been around long enough to see what evolution "usually" does...

I have to address this. Evolution does NOT compete with 'creationism'. Also, saying that we haven't been 'around long enough to see it' is totally facetous.

Evolution is not limited to biological organisms. Evolution covers societies, languages, fashions, countries, laws, economies, technologies, video games, and anything else in which there are a variety of competing 'populations'. We HAVE been around long enough to see how evolution works - EXACTLY how evolution works, in MANY different fields. Even in biology, we have seen evolution act in distinct and measurable ways, just over the past 70 years or so.

Evolution is an ALGORITHM. It is not religious nor atheist. Some pieces of what people CALL evolution are nothing but theories - and some of them are pretty zonkers - but saying the algorithm "evolution" ITSELF does not exist is like saying that the algorithm of "walking" doesn't exist.

Evolution simply states that things which are more capable of being successful tend to be more successful.

-Craig
« Last Edit: May 03, 2005, 11:40:22 am by craigp »

Offline syphonbyte

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #35 on: May 03, 2005, 11:59:10 am »
But we aren't talking evolution with a lowercase e... we're talking about Evolution, the big Darwinian theory of monkeys to men. And I don't see any reason why lower forms of your creature might still be roaming the praries and such later on in the game.

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #36 on: May 03, 2005, 12:31:51 pm »
Quote
I have to address this. Evolution does NOT compete with 'creationism'.
You're right, but I still don't trust that "monkeybusiness" thing.
In the end it just depends on whether you think/don't think it's God that started the hole thing...how does'nt really matter(to me at least).
« Last Edit: May 03, 2005, 12:34:02 pm by Mr. Themhpe »
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Offline Legodragonxp

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #37 on: May 03, 2005, 01:02:26 pm »
But we aren't talking evolution with a lowercase e... we're talking about Evolution, the big Darwinian theory of monkeys to men. And I don't see any reason why lower forms of your creature might still be roaming the praries and such later on in the game.

In the event of geographic speration, one group may evolve while another doesn't. Something may not evolve (successfully) and retain its original design for a long time horseshoe crabs, sharks, alligator/crocodiles, turtles, dragonfly, mosquito, etc... while some have changed size, they are virtually unchanged over millions of years, yet there has been successful evolutions of many of the same creature listed above. I can happen, will it happen in Spore? Who knows.

My two cents... If I'm making cents in forum is that counterfitting?

Offline Lord Janos

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #38 on: May 03, 2005, 01:54:27 pm »
Quote
I have to address this. Evolution does NOT compete with 'creationism'.
You're right, but I still don't trust that "monkeybusiness" thing.
In the end it just depends on whether you think/don't think it's God that started the hole thing...how does'nt really matter(to me at least).

My theory is similar to this.  It's not "how" we are here, but simply that we are here.  Why does it matter?  Some people believe in that Darwin nonsense and others believe that a God created things.

I doubt earlier versions of your creature will be in the game - i honestly don't care if they are! 

Offline bwl2

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #39 on: May 03, 2005, 08:27:50 pm »
Im not a creationist and Im not an evelutionist. I mix the 2 together and use the peices of both theorys to make my own belife.
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Offline Zoston

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #40 on: May 03, 2005, 09:02:27 pm »
I for one would find it hard to beleive God would pass up on the oppurtunity to create life in such a complex and intricate chance-filled way that a thousand years from now He can still snicker at our constant squabling of how the heaven He did it that way.  ;D

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #41 on: May 04, 2005, 05:20:52 am »
If I was God I would be doing experiments on infinite worlds, galaxies and universes. Wouldn't you? Like god decided that he would only mess with one at a time. A thousand years is a single day to him apparently. Actually, isn't this what this game is like? Just a big experiment?

Anyway. I can honestly say that people who follow things on faith are dumb. Get a free will damn it! Many sections of the Bible (the English one) say that you shouldn't believe in things blindly and you should find out for yourself. Well are you? Because if you really think about it, evolution not only fits in with creation stuff it makes a hell of a lot more sense when you look at the evidence. If you are going to follow a faith why don't you actually study the book yourself instead of believing someone elses ideas about it? I'd love for you to prove me wrong with quotes and passages because it will show you actually care enough about God to read a pretty short story.

And er...Spore is really cool. I am so on topic.

Offline Mr. Themhpe

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #42 on: May 04, 2005, 05:45:08 am »
Won't gain anything by proving you wrong, nor will you by proving me wrong. Believing is about trusting in something which cannot be proven right or wrong...
Well, enough said. Let's just stick to our own beliefs/ideas, shall we?

And yes, Spore is really cool!
« Last Edit: May 04, 2005, 05:47:01 am by Mr. Themhpe »
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Offline Legodragonxp

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #43 on: May 04, 2005, 07:06:39 am »
If I was God I would be doing experiments on infinite worlds, galaxies and universes. Wouldn't you? Like god decided that he would only mess with one at a time. A thousand years is a single day to him apparently. Actually, isn't this what this game is like? Just a big experiment?

(snip)

HEADLINE 2007
GOD SUES WILL WRIGHT
[/size]
In a strange turn of events, God Almighty is suing Will Wright over his latest game release, Spore(tm EA). Filed in district court, GA is suing EA and WW for an undisclosed amount of money due to a patent infringment of the creationism software routines. In the case, filed by GA himself and will be self-represented (apparently GA could not locate a lawyer on some sort of moral grounds issue), GA says that he owns the patents on the software routines being used and he has not issued license to EA or WW for their use.

Business analysts say that, if it goes to trial, that it will be extremely expensive. EA has been reported to have money money than God, and they have no moral problems with locating lawyers.

EA says that they actuall hold patents on the software, not God, and that an early version of the Bible proves it iná Book of Genesisá Zero. When questioned about book Zero, EA replied that all counting in programming starts at zero and not one. Humans in legaue with God, have hidden the Zero books from the bible (which contain the copyright notices as well) for a couple thousand years in a long-term attempt to defraud EA from millions of dollars when the time came.

EA claims that God has been the one using the software illegally after obtaining a leaked version of the source code. EA say that they can point to exact spots where, they claim, God used the buggy code and it created items that should just not exist. "Look at the Platapus! We knew it was a bug, but after the leak, we were unable to patch it." says EA Lawyer Dewey Cheatum. EA claims that for thousands of years, God has been in viloation of their copyrights and patents in the use of this software. EA says that the paperwork was being drawn up to sue God and seek legal action to have him shutdown, but that they needed to wait for the courts to finish the peer-to-peer-file-sharing cases before the could proceed.

When asked about the actions, Will Wright gave no comment, but it is reported that the spinning diamond above his head has been red for the last several days.

-Lego
« Last Edit: May 04, 2005, 07:11:04 am by Legodragonxp »

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #44 on: May 04, 2005, 07:57:24 am »
Won't gain anything by proving you wrong, nor will you by proving me wrong. Believing is about trusting in something which cannot be proven right or wrong...
Well, enough said. Let's just stick to our own beliefs/ideas, shall we?

And yes, Spore is really cool!
You're Bible says that you should read it. This is not my belief it is my hope.
What are you, scared that you went the wrong way? *****.

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #45 on: May 04, 2005, 08:20:29 am »
Won't gain anything by proving you wrong, nor will you by proving me wrong. Believing is about trusting in something which cannot be proven right or wrong...
Well, enough said. Let's just stick to our own beliefs/ideas, shall we?

And yes, Spore is really cool!
You're Bible says that you should read it. This is not my belief it is my hope.
What are you, scared that you went the wrong way? *****.
Well you're getting personal now! I'm not gonna fight back in the same manner.
I read my Bible, and I'm certainly not scared I went the wrong way. In fact, I pitty the people who does'nt go this way, but that's their choice. I can only tell people that it's wonderfull being christian. And even if I'm wrong, I won't regret it, cause it's the best thing that ever happened to me...period!
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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #46 on: May 04, 2005, 09:48:43 am »
You don't know what words mean do you? I don't mean skimming through the best bits, I mean reading and understanding the whole thing. The book in plain text says that God said that you shouldn't blindly follow anyone and should seek out answers for yourself. I know you haven't done this because of the things you have said. You arn't fooling me...Er...Bum face.

Offline Mr. Themhpe

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #47 on: May 04, 2005, 11:19:53 am »
I'm not skimming through the best bits, and I'm not trying to fool you. Nor am I going to to insult you, like you insult me. (Bum face...that's actually quite close to the truth ;D)

BTW: Where in the Bible does it say that "you shouldn't blindly follow anyone and should seek out answers for yourself"? Just curious...
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Offline Lord Janos

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #48 on: May 04, 2005, 11:25:14 am »
You don't know what words mean do you? I don't mean skimming through the best bits, I mean reading and understanding the whole thing. The book in plain text says that God said that you shouldn't blindly follow anyone and should seek out answers for yourself. I know you haven't done this because of the things you have said. You arn't fooling me...Er...Bum face.

Actually many modern-day Christians (myself included), go to Bible-studying groups and read it from front to back.  Each group i go to we study a different few chapters and try to understand what they mean/are trying to say, etc.

Thing is, nobody can disprove the existence of God - materialistic "facts" explain nothing because God is immaterial - He is metaphysical.  By purely believing in "scientific fact" (which if you think about it is just the same as believing in what the Bible says - you're still believing what other people claim to be the "truth", not through your own experiences) one isn't also taking into account the metaphysical side of things.

If i stand on a table, then there is a table underneath my feet.  If i stand on air, then there is air beneath my feet... oh wait - you can't stand on air!  You cannot SEE air, you cannot smell air and you cannot touch air (wind isn't air).  If you purely believe in the physical then this must mean that there is no air.  This is blatently not true. 

Let's just come to the conclusion that Christians aren't "pussies without free will" (one thing God actually gives us IS free will - which is why there is evil and suffering in the world), but just people with different views to yourself.  Similarly, you are not an obnoxious moron who doesn't know what he is talking about - you just have a different belief.

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #49 on: May 04, 2005, 11:41:53 am »
Good one Janos...I'm still a very young Christian, so wouldn't be able to express it that way.
Mr. Wulf will probaly come with some kind of answer soon. It will to be interesting to see if he can keep insultions out this time around(sure hope he will, for his own sake. His reputation isn't getting any better with these insultions).
« Last Edit: May 04, 2005, 11:46:40 am by Mr. Themhpe »
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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #50 on: May 04, 2005, 11:55:18 am »
Hahahah...Haaah.(The laughing is the way you said it, I can always consider other peoples beliefs) You can do many things with air that prove it's existance, you can do nothing with God. That is why you have to find out for yourself and not just believe what someone has said. Hell I am partial to believing in a God because it's something I have decided taking everything into account. What I don't believe is a bunch of lies and contradictions. The Bible has been ****ed with so many times that not only has it's orginal use been destroyed (which was to keep people in-line) it has lost itself in misinterpritations that are constantly broadcast into your heads. I honestly don't see how people can sit there and be ****ed with like that. Read, people, read!

(almost forgot...I am always going to trust a scientist who grounds their arguments with truths instead of blind faith)

Offline Mr. Themhpe

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #51 on: May 04, 2005, 12:21:30 pm »
Misinterpritations? Tell us Wulf, how exactly should we interpritate the Bible according to you?
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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #52 on: May 04, 2005, 12:47:59 pm »
Please, take it somewhere else.

-Craig

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #53 on: May 04, 2005, 02:27:08 pm »
Explain how the Universe was created then.  The Big Bang you say?  Sure, perhaps that was HOW the universe was created... but what was the cause of the Big Bang?  And what caused that cause?  And what caused that cause? And what caused the cause of the cause of the cause?  Infinite regression like that is illogical - there HAS to be a beginning.  The beginning - whether it be the Christian God which i happen to believe in, or something totally different, had to have a first cause - something that started it.  That, for the sake of argument, is a being called "God".

You cannot disprove God's existence - there is MUCH more proof for the existence of God than there is disproof.  The Bible was written over hundreds of years - taking the miracles and the things which you feel are perhaps illogical and you get a book full of great wisdom.  That does not prove there is a God - granted.  However it does speak sense doesn't it?  If you actually read it all, and make an attempt to understand it, you see that in a VERY VERY basic summing up it says how human beings ought to behave towards one another - helping each other, not discriminating, loving one another, etc.  If you say that those are not good things to preach and teach, then i honestly don't know what to say, and that i pity you.

I'm not trying to convert you or entice you into this religion, but simply saying that, "I'll believe a scientist who can provide me hard facts, whatever you say" and mouthing off with "****s" and "****s" and "pussies" just makes you look ignorant.  I perfectly understand that some people need hard proof and won't accept things unless they can actually be seen/heard/distinguished, but that is no reason to start degrading other's beliefs. 

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #54 on: May 04, 2005, 03:24:56 pm »
I've read a lot of stuff in science magazines, and even touched on quantam physics and unified theory.  None of it actually disproves a God.  In fact, the pure reason such a chaotic system (such as quantam mechanics) can make up such a harmonic and equilibrium-based (but still entropic) system may increase the concept of a Master Creator.  From what we observe, there has to be some sort of higher power who either created or oversees the universe we live in.  At least that's my take.
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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #55 on: May 05, 2005, 04:36:15 am »
*slaphead* I didn't actually mean the ***** comment...It's like a...thing...Because I thought it was obvious...Because it's such a horrible insult and doesn't mean anything.

AAAAAAANyway. I am not trying to turn anyone to any religion. I am simply saying that this dude hasn't read his own book and should. I believe there is a God behind everything but there is too much bull**** around the kinda James Bible that is utter crap.

I leave this discussion with this, how do you know what is the right religion? Just because you were born with X religion surrounding you doesn't mean it is the right one. Everyone should study many religions and find the one that makes the most sense. And my personal opinion is that Bible based religions are the least logical ones.

Almost forgot, don't contradict yourself.

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #56 on: May 05, 2005, 07:16:14 am »
According to Descartes, science can't disprove religion, and vice-versa, because they exist in seperate spheres of existence. I think that makes sense. After all, like he said, it's possible that everything we see and sense doesn't exist, and if that's true, then all of science is wrong. So, it's possible for all of science to be totally wrong about everything, but religion exists in your mind and is all belief, so you decide if it's right or wrong.

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #57 on: May 05, 2005, 07:43:37 am »
Sifting through all this makes me wonder... I'm color-blind, partially, so bad that those little pictures of colored dots that have number and letters hidden in them are impossible for me. I can tell green from yellow and from red, so I can drive at least, but it makes me wonder, what color is the sky in your world? I mean, in my world it is blue, because I'm told the shade and hue of that color is blue. But, if I had the eyes of someone else would I see blue for blue? Would it appear different? Is all the world coming to us in XML and all we do is interpret it? Are humans all based on a .NET framework but some of us are C#, some VB, some Cobol, (is there a LOGO.NET?)... which would make humanity compiled IL code. If I have a child and I'm C++ and my wife VB would it be an example of OOP (object oriented programming)? Are birth defects simply compiler errors? Do I forget things because I'm out of memory, bad sectors on my harddrvie, or is it a memory leak? Am I equipt with USB1.0 or USB 2.0? Am I a legecy application? Do I not understand the lure of rap music becuase of some sort of genetic sounds driver incompatability? Am I more of a simulation, RTS, or a support application? If I get hurt and go to the hospital and they 'patch me up' should I be taking that literally? Is a smoker a piece of broekn electronics (electricity runs on smoke, don't believe it? Let all the smoke out of your computer and see if it still runs). If the smoker is on the patch is he getting fixed. Is the birth-control patch a falty update designed to break a woman's compiler?

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Offline merridian

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #58 on: May 05, 2005, 08:05:12 am »
When did this thread get so off topic, i have been peeking in every now and then and all of a sudden its a full blown theological debate! Lets see if we can't get back on track.

But before we do I think that everbody is right, to a certain degree, of course this means beleiving or not dismissing the infinite universe theory thingy.

That there is an infinite number of everyWHERES and everyWHENS, so that if something can be imagined it must exist somewhere, so no matter who is right in THIS universe everybody else is right somewhere else.

Or even that evrybody is right in this universe anyway, whos to say that all the gods do or dont co-exist in their own way? I don't know and can't say i'm not qualified
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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #59 on: May 05, 2005, 08:15:27 am »
Anyway, ahem, back to leaving a legacy, well if there is going to be constant uploading of creatures from PCs, then your previous evolutions of your creature could exist somewhere, you may even see them on your own planet but not as an inferior species to your own because you will be evolving your ENTIRE race not just one creature. I think you might see more of your own creatures running/shambling/skittering/swimming/flying/slithering/crawling/limping around the environment because we eventually get to mate with others of the same species to continually evolve, then you get the 'civilization' part of the game where you have an entire community so they must have come from somewhere.

But it should be fairly beleivable that other players could see your earlier evolutions in their own universe or planet as predator or prey as the game is constantly uploading and downloading content if you are connected to the server.
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Offline Legodragonxp

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #60 on: May 05, 2005, 10:40:58 am »
This brings up something that I'm sorta worried about... population explosions.
Bob makes a species called "A"
Chuck and David download the "A" speicies
David evolves the "A" creatures and uploads them
Chuck evolves the "A" creatures differently and uploads them
Now there are three "A" creatures. Bob's will be referred to as "AB", Chuck's "AC", and David's "AD"
Bob goes to a new planet and pulls down "AC" for that planet, but the name is still "A" on the screen.
Bob then goes to another plane and pulls down "AD", but the name on the screen is still "A"
Meanwhile other people have downloaded "AB","AC", and "AD" and uploaded varients as well.
Eventually we have dozens of creatures called "A" on the servers.
Now.... I see and "A" on a forum,website, friend's game, whatever, and I want to get "A".
How do I find the "A" that I want?

Imagine how many varients of Pamela Anderson, Care Bears, etc... there will be.

The Legacy left behind would be a mess of 1k files.
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Offline merridian

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #61 on: May 05, 2005, 10:59:12 am »
I dont know if that would actually happen because each player will be evolving their own unique creature not downloading an existing player created creature to evolve or just to have. I think if we can download creatures they will be computer controlled based on how the other player had so far been driving the creature, whether or not the computer would evolve that creature further on its own ar pull the next evolved stage of the player controlled creature i dont know, but i dont think there will be a lot of differently evolved creatures with the same name.
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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #62 on: May 05, 2005, 12:18:52 pm »
When did this thread get so off topic, i have been peeking in every now and then and all of a sudden its a full blown theological debate! Lets see if we can't get back on track.

But before we do I think that everbody is right, to a certain degree, of course this means beleiving or not dismissing the infinite universe theory thingy.

That there is an infinite number of everyWHERES and everyWHENS, so that if something can be imagined it must exist somewhere, so no matter who is right in THIS universe everybody else is right somewhere else.

Or even that evrybody is right in this universe anyway, whos to say that all the gods do or dont co-exist in their own way? I don't know and can't say i'm not qualified

I believe in an infinite universe. Infact I think that the universe is just in some form of epi-universe and each universe within it is like the equlivent of a galaxy. That would be cool in spore.

Offline merridian

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #63 on: May 05, 2005, 02:21:15 pm »
Yup, I beleive in that kind of thing too.
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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #64 on: May 05, 2005, 04:49:30 pm »
Problem is that too many people read the bible word for word literaly...

You gotta read it in the context of what it is written in. 3000-4000 years ago people could not explain what happend in the world around them as well as we can today. So they used the information that they knew and wrote it as they thought it was.

Take the plauge storys in the exodis event.

they talk as if everything was its own plauge but using things we know today

1. Volcaneo activity turns nile red
2. Forgs flee from nile becuase of the harmful red water
3. frogs get steped on killed ect. flys and gnats are attracted to the dead frogs
4. With them come disease
5. The disease kills livestock
6. It was the time of the year that locusts appear
7. crops destroyed
8. Its not unknown for very large hail to be created in that area of egypt
9. Egyptian children eat infected livestock and dont have the immune system that the adults have while the enslved isrialites were too poor to eat much meat.

What can you say? well it depends on your perspective

It could be cowinsidence or divian actions that created this. I personaly think its cool that our undertanding now a days leads us to better understand how things like this happend so long ago. I belive it was God working through nature to do this.

I could go into more detail but now is not the place nor time.

Often the letter of the bible is not the way to understand what occored so long ago. You have to look at it from the perspective of the writer and the perspective of today.

(srry to bore the heck out of you)
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Offline bwl2

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #65 on: May 05, 2005, 04:50:17 pm »
but back to this threads origonal topic  ::)
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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #66 on: May 06, 2005, 04:04:04 am »
What topic?

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It doesn't say it for me, though
« Reply #67 on: May 07, 2005, 10:13:36 pm »
Well, it does say 'Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?' above all our posts, so maybe we're supposed to be talking about legacy power supplies on SATA drives. MAN I HATE THOSE.

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #68 on: May 08, 2005, 12:48:26 am »
It has a lot of benifits though. Sure it is annoying but you should read up on it.

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #69 on: May 08, 2005, 06:45:50 pm »
Yay! My first post! lol.

Anyway...

I'm not sure there will be unevolved versions of your creature running around, but technically that isn't even the way legacys work in the sims. (you of all people should know that pinstar. lol.)

What I think would be cool is sort of a Darwin chart type thing. Everyone knows the picture of the guy going from the amoeba to that thing to that other thing (i believe you can fill in the blanks here) and moving up till finally reaching modern man. I think it would be fun to click on a button and see something a little like that for your creature. Showing how far you came. It could be updated every time you evolve your creature.

(unfortunatly that's just an idea. and as cool as it may be it won't go far if nobody sees it. maybe i should post it on the sims 2 bbs too. I know the people at maxis comb the boards every once in a while. I've seen them reply to things.)
What meme is relevant right now? Look, just imagine I'm riffing on that. Updating signatures is exhausting.

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #70 on: May 10, 2005, 02:37:09 am »
That darwin chart for the game would actually be a very nice thing to have. If it's not in the game then I bet Will would have liked to have stolen that from you earlier.

Offline Tr0n

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #71 on: May 10, 2005, 05:26:52 am »
Agreed.  That's a good idea.  Some way, on your local machine (or generated online), for everyone to see where every other creature came from.
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Offline Legodragonxp

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #72 on: May 10, 2005, 05:46:09 am »
I can see there being a 'photo-album' in the game like in SimCity and TheSims. Maybe an 'evolution' of that system being small 3D models that you can zoom, pan and rotate rather than simple stills, each morphing to the next in the chain as you click through them.
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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #73 on: May 10, 2005, 11:30:18 am »
Am I right in assuming that a gamestate takes up less space than a hi-res image? Cause I am confused as to why Sims 2 didn't have such a thing as saving a snapshot of the state rather than the image.

Wow, I wish there was such a thing as interactive poleroids...I AM A GENIUS.

Offline lemurbouy

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Re: Leave a Legacy Behind?
« Reply #74 on: May 10, 2005, 12:09:30 pm »
I think they had something like that on Star Trek the Next Generation when Laforge had to solve a mystery based on one fuzzy photograph and he was all up ins that thing.  Pretty awesome. -leeman