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Offline Martin4

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Demo
« on: April 01, 2005, 09:21:51 pm »
  Alright, I know it doesn't even have a release date, but Spore is so awesome that people are already thinking of expansion packs. So when do you think a demo will be released?  hope it's soon, because all we have is a handful of screenshots and an awesome forum thanks to Gaming Steve. Thanks Steve.


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Offline lemurbouy

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Re: Demo
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2005, 09:27:36 pm »
Getting to play with any of the editors would be so Very.  That's what I'm hoping for more than anything.  -leeman

Offline Jecrell

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Re: Demo
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2005, 10:41:52 pm »
Somehow I can't seem to imagine how a demo of Spore would even "function."

Offline Quantum

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Re: Demo
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2005, 11:44:04 pm »
I don't know, but I think any "DEMO" for Spore will simply be an early release of the evolution tools.
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Offline SHW

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Re: Demo
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2005, 09:41:09 am »
Yes, the Create a Sim came out before TS2, and that was it.

Offline krjal

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Re: Demo
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2005, 09:01:18 pm »
Sounds like the best bet so far.

Something new for the FAQ?
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Offline apresthus

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Re: Demo
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2005, 02:59:09 pm »
Knowing Will Wright's and Maxis' previous releases, i doubt a demo will be released- :(
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Offline meh

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Re: Demo
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2005, 03:02:03 pm »
Other than a editor/creator I'd rather them focus on the actual game than spend time on a demo.
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Offline apresthus

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Re: Demo
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2005, 03:04:59 pm »
I totally agree! :D
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Offline krjal

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Re: Demo
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2005, 06:50:56 am »
Very true.

Not that I think Will would let his baby down for meddeling with a demo ;D
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Offline Behumat

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Re: Demo
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2005, 08:22:11 am »
Hey kids! Now you can build your own demo for Will Wright's upcoming supergame, SPORE! Take one peice of bread, or if you're feeling really excited, TWO and place it on the counter. Now, and this is the important part so you may need to ask your parents for help with this, get the bread wet. You can wait for it to rain, you can pour water from a cup or pitcher on it, you can even use that little squirty hose thingy on the side of the sink noone ever uses for washing dishes, just water fights. THE CHOICES AND FUN ARE ENDLESS! Now...............ALL YOU DO IS WAIT!!! Yup, in just a couple of days you'll begin to see your very own spores begin to grow into mold on your bread. FUN FUN FUN! Keep waiting, and in a quick two billion years or so, you'll have your very own new species!



Offline Scipion

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Re: Demo
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2005, 07:40:15 pm »
There is a Demo it's called EVO, well...kinda...just kidding. Any demo would probably just be a creature editor, although since that's the whole point of the early stages of this game they migh tnot even bother doing that.
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Offline RealmRPGer

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Re: Demo
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2005, 10:46:01 pm »
Considering that they want several thousand creatures to put on the game's release CD, I CAN see a creature creator popping up. However, that might take from enjoyment of end-game, seeing as how the creation is half the game. For The Sims 2, the creation part wasn't a large chunk of the game.

Offline Stromko

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Re: Demo
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2005, 05:30:50 am »

Well we can't actually see how a creature performs and how good it is at surviving, when all we have is a creature editor, nor do we get to see it interact with others. I would expect that the creature editor will need to get finished very early in development, right now it sounds like they just need to add a whole lot more options for each part of it... and it'd be a smart move on their part to not give us all the parts, so even if the creature editor is the only thing we like about the game we'll buy it to get 2 or 3x as many options as in the demo. That said, it'd surely take them time to package it as a separate program, so assuming they don't have too many people on Spore already it might slow things down, sure.

EVO is kinda fun, but good lord those boss fights.. it is NOT an easy game! (I actually gave up on the very very very last fight, then just read a walkthrough so I knew what the ending was ;)) Also it seems to me there isn't as much replayability as there could be, since for most parts of your creature there is a 'best' part, usually the most expensive(but also tend to make you super slow). I'd say there's 1.5 or 3 actually viable, really different designs in each phase of that game. With my creature I always focused on being super durable and having a powerful bite, this served me well, although I found the Kick was a very good way to kill a certain raging punching primate..

But hey, that's what Spore's for, nigh-endless customization, and it's probably very balanced one way or another. =)

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Re: Demo
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2005, 07:02:22 pm »
For The Sims 2, the creation part wasn't a large chunk of the game.
No, it was just ALMOST ALL OF IT. You honestly played the 'game' more than you made people an houses?

Offline Tarious

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Re: Demo
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2005, 07:41:58 pm »
I think he ment the Sim creator.

The Sim creator was probably only 20% of The Sims 2.

I hope the demo is the creature editor.

Offline syphonbyte

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Re: Demo
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2005, 09:59:31 am »
I spent most of my time in TS2 making awesome houses.

Offline xnodas

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Re: Demo
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2005, 01:20:55 pm »
i really doubt that a demo will come out just because it looked like he was playing a demo of it, plus this is such a hyped up game that maxis wont want to ruin any extra surprises taht are in store for the final version(they could just make it to where you dont get to be a land creature and can only stay in the water) or(they could make it to where you cant start a society, but be able to run around and kill things)
if they do make a demo thats how i would see it being made
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Offline happydan20

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Re: Demo
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2005, 12:55:43 pm »
i could see a demo easily... what if you only got to play the first stage, the cellular soup
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Offline bselig

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Re: Demo
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2005, 09:12:58 am »
Given Wright's track record and the huge marketing push that will undoubtably accompany the game, I doubt we'll see any kind of demo.  This type of game seems like it'd be fairly hard to craft a sufficiently limited demo, anyway.

What I do think we'll see are editing tools released a month or so prior to the game so people can start generating all that content, all that juicy, emergent content, prior to the game's release. 

Offline Zealousy

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Re: Demo
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2005, 12:57:57 pm »
I don't think it'd be that hard to make a demo, actually. It could be just like the Rollercoaster Tycoon demo: limit what features are available in the demo (i.e. players can only put a certain number of limbs or mouths on their creature, just to whet the appetite) and add a time limit. Then the player could still have tons of freedom in how they want to play, as well as be able to sink their teeth into the gameplay, but not for so long that people will become bored with the game.
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Offline krjal

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Re: Demo
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2005, 07:49:39 am »
A possibility but I'm still betting on the editor only.
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Offline syphonbyte

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Re: Demo
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2005, 08:27:04 am »
Yeah, I'm thinking you would be able to fiddle with the editor, but not really anything else. That would be cool, though.

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Re: Demo
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2005, 09:24:14 am »
The dude in the show was saying something about a server with thousands of creatures and ****e already there. Releasing a demo of an editor would defeat the purpose of the game and releasing any of the game would eliminate heaps of the fun. This isn't about making some random Sim when the whole game is the Sim...or creature...or spore...or...JUST SHUT UP. Oh, okay. Thank you.

Offline Tr0n

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Re: Demo
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2005, 10:33:18 pm »
I would tend to think that the demo would lead you from the very beginning to the first "milestone" where your creature goes 3-d.  I may be wrong (given the limited info) but the 2-d game seems to be a moderately short part of the game and allowing the demo-hungry player to run through that 2-d customizable portion of the game would give us a good sample of the opportunities presented to us in the full game.  Even that, however, could be classified as a game in itself.  What I'd like to know is what strengths/weaknesses one will end up carrying over as he evolves through the ages. /shrug
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Offline Pepboy

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Re: Demo
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2005, 12:43:14 am »
On the one hand, EA might want lots of creature/whatever content, and be able to test out their server capabilities (i.e. is it able to recognize creatures that would be of an adult nature (think walking apandenges) and remove them, able to download/upload correctly,etc).  But from what Will said (and what I understand), a lot of this game is the creation tools.  Perhaps releasing a dumbed down version of the creature creator, like some options are shaded out/inaccessible?  Or maybe not the creature, but the plant or building creator (as buildings would take longer to design than creatures I think)?  Or maybe EA would just hire a few testers and let them create a lot of the basic content?

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Re: Demo
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2005, 03:32:56 am »
I wonder if a walking penis would actually survive that well. To make it comical you would need to have tiny hands and feet.

Offline syphonbyte

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Re: Demo
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2005, 07:37:48 pm »
Or possibly big round feet it lumbered around on.

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Re: Demo
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2005, 05:08:42 am »
Or possibly big round feet it lumbered around on.
Like one of them windup walking toys.

Offline Cool AN

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Re: Demo
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2005, 08:55:56 am »
I don't think you can make a demo for such a complex game.

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Offline syphonbyte

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Re: Demo
« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2005, 09:54:59 am »
Hmm, a race of windup penises, that sounds interesting. And I bet the winder thing in the back will unwind as they walk around.

Offline Tr0n

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Re: Demo
« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2005, 11:15:15 am »
Hmm.... how about the tested n true time demo?  It's worked well in the past.  It allows the immersion and then takes it away!  That's what demo's are for.  As far as basic content being created by demo-users, I'm sure that not only has a ton of basic content already been created, but those in the closed beta (if there is one) would be the designers for most of the content that ships, as I'm sure Will Wright wouldn't want the first creature you run into to be user-created walking penis ;).  Save that for intergalactic exploration.
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Offline syphonbyte

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Re: Demo
« Reply #32 on: April 28, 2005, 11:50:17 am »
You can do some cheap stuff to make most time demos break, but it works for the most part. I think they'll release an editor, if anything, sort of like with The Sims 2.

Offline Pepboy

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Re: Demo
« Reply #33 on: April 28, 2005, 01:10:31 pm »
I think one major consideration of a timed demo is the file size - especially considering the market they are probably aiming for - i.e. Spore won't be unplayable for those with dial-up.

Offline Tr0n

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Re: Demo
« Reply #34 on: April 28, 2005, 01:53:13 pm »
I was thinking "editor".  But that would almost be too much to give out in a demo.  A demo is supposed to introduce you to the aspects of the game; then again I don't think anything we've come up with can even scratch the surface.  Ideally, I would like just an editor.  Something to play around with and create creatures before the game comes out.  The more I think about it, it would probably be in EA's interest to release a limited editor early.  All of your creations could be saved on you HDD and imported into the game upon release.  That way, some of that customizable part ofthe game comes into focus quickly.  It would be good for a "wow" or two.
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Offline syphonbyte

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Re: Demo
« Reply #35 on: April 29, 2005, 10:42:13 am »
Most procedurally-made games take up a lot less space than other games, so I don't think filesize will be that big of a problem.

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Re: Demo
« Reply #36 on: April 29, 2005, 11:33:36 am »
Bah. The game isn't procedrally generated, the characters and buildings are. You can't release a damn demo because the game is made up in different sections that are basically demo sized anyway! You can't release an editor because most of the game is an editor! You spend points in the editor for different things so how can you release a demo that won't even be like in the game?! Bah! BAAAAH! You all die!

Offline syphonbyte

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Re: Demo
« Reply #37 on: April 29, 2005, 03:56:05 pm »
Eh, you knew what I meant by procedurally-made games.

That's one thing I did wonder though, would the program structure even allow an editor to be torn from the game and released seperately?

Offline Pepboy

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Re: Demo
« Reply #38 on: April 29, 2005, 06:11:42 pm »
I wonder if they'll have a playable demo at e3 or if it will be all presentation?

Offline Tr0n

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Re: Demo
« Reply #39 on: April 29, 2005, 07:48:43 pm »
I feel a demo would be easily made for a game like this, simply BECAUSE is it several games strewn together.  Give us the fully-featured primordial soup with a full editor... don't let us turn into sea-faring beings, but give us a glimpse of the graphics, one part of the gameplay, and the editor for that era.  I constantly download 200-300mb demos of FPS games that you play for one hour and never play again.  Heck, it'll be great if they release anything at all... I mean, beggars can't be choosers.

Another good one I could think of would be something like a screensaver.  If anyone has downloaded Darwinian Evolution games like Darwin Pond or Gene Pool (www.ventrella.com), they provide fun and interesting screen savers to watch.  What would be cooler to have a randomly evolving amoeba scooting around on your screen when you're not using it.  That way, you have a cool and useful way to show how the game starts off.  I mean, let's face it.  A lot of us are pumped about this game and a demo is probably not going to change our minds about buying the game or not.  Just something to whet our appetites (and in a useful manner such as a screen saver) would be very good.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2005, 08:06:15 pm by Tr0n »
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Offline Pepboy

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Re: Demo
« Reply #40 on: April 30, 2005, 05:44:34 am »
Awesome link Tron!  Thank you very very much.  I've really liked watching genepool and all the little creatures (in some ways, the amoeba stage in spore was/is the one I was looking forward to the most, maybe b/c it reminds me of a scientist looking at cells rather than a video game and b/c I'm dorky like that).

Thanks again (I let it run all night in my background and its really interesting to see what came of them).

Offline HolsteinCow

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Re: Demo
« Reply #41 on: April 30, 2005, 06:41:13 am »
The reason why CoH didn't release their hero creator as a demo was because the creator was built into the game; the creator wouldn't work unless you dragged the whole game with it.

Offline Legodragonxp

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Re: Demo
« Reply #42 on: April 30, 2005, 07:05:01 am »
Cool link Tron. Sadly my day will now be devoted to seeing what the 'froggies' mutate in to over the day. :)

Offline Tr0n

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Re: Demo
« Reply #43 on: April 30, 2005, 10:32:13 am »
You're welcome, guys.  Don't expect these sims to eventually crete humans or anything.  These creatures are limited by the math designing them.  They'll never become much more than little swimming thingies, but it's very interesting to watch them dominate, battle for food, etc.  I usually interacted a little too much with my creatures and it always ended in mass extincions.  Little changes here and there have la little ripple effect, but adding 200 pieces of food or something its akin to a 1 mile wide meteor hitting earth, only in the opposite fashion (population boom, then mass starvation).  Anyway, back to demo talk.  One could see how fun a screensaver like demo would be, if you lenjoy watching these little creatures swim around and compete.
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Re: Demo
« Reply #44 on: May 01, 2005, 10:32:29 pm »
The fact that the game is made up of little games is the case AGAINST a demo being released. You can't release such a huge amount of the game. It doesn't make sense to. No-one would buy this game if it was just one of the little sections of the game on it's own. Plus it is so freeform that you are making the content not the game. You give someone content creation tools (a demo) and they have the game already. It's like releasing the game for free damn it!

Offline Tr0n

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Re: Demo
« Reply #45 on: May 02, 2005, 11:33:36 am »
I see what you're saying, and I know that the game is so huge, but Maxis/EA is big on releasing demo content and I would expect this one to be no different.  Here are a few arguments for a demo (and probably just high hopes :)). 
A) Maxis releaased the Sim builder before the Sims 2 came out.  It was limited, but it gave you a feel for both the graphics and complexity ofthe game.  That made me look forward to the game; it didn't turn me away. 
B)  Spore is not going to be as popular as The Sims or Half Life 2.  Period.  It is too focused to a niche of the market to appeal to everyone in the world.  It's going to win over a small amount of the sceintific-minded female crowd that plays The Sims and it's going to win over a portion of the CS addicts who are looking for something new (and siince some of them have God-complexes, this game will suit them well).  A demo release of any type, editor, timed play, or section of gameplay, will get the word out more than it is and at least show that the game exists...people will naturally research if their interest is piqued.  Will Wright has already won over a large part of his niche by his GDC demo.  All these people have to do is actually FIND the article on Gamespy.com or IGN, or listen to Steve's Podcast.  Like I said before, the demo is not going to turn me off to the game in all... it's going to whet my appetite.
C)  Your previous statements tend to contradict one another.  You present the argument that the game is several in one and that giving any one part would not do it justice, yet by giving someone the major feature of the customizable part of the game would be giving too much.  I disagree.  If you give me the editor for the Tidepool era and even the gameplay from the tidepool era, my brain is going to make the association that there are four or more stages of this game that dwarf the part I'm playing.  I get a sample of both technology and the gameplay that I can affect by it.  Thus it's not the Tidepool that I'm going through, it's the syngery between the editor and the gameplay (albeit simple in the early stages) that I take in, not each individual part.

Of course, we're on two sides of the same coin... so no matter what happens with a demo, I'm sure our creatures will be peacefully (or not) coinciding somewhere in the universe when the game comes out for good.
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Offline Pepboy

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Re: Demo
« Reply #46 on: May 02, 2005, 12:35:04 pm »
I think in response to the points you bring up (keeping in mind that everyone is free to an opinion):

A) I don't think giving away the Sims 2 creator is analagous to giving away spore creature creator.  Keep in mind pretty much everyone had an idea of what the Sims 2 would be, how it would play (more or less), one of the major benefits that Sims 2 had over Sims 1 is graphics - so it makes sense to flaunt the graphical superiority.  But I'm not a HUGE Sims 2 fan (I like it, but I'm not obsessed over it) so maybe it was a different experience for those really looking forward to the game.

B) I disagree with your opinion that Spore is not going to be as popular as Sims.  Your argument, that it is a niche of the market, could (more so) be applied to the Sims before it was released (i.e. only meant for little girls - in fact this was what testing groups said before release).  I think children will love spore - as a kid, what would you rather play - CS where you get mauled every 20 seoncds because the controls and buying things takes some getting used to, or a game where you can mold your own creature?  (Or, from the viewpoint of the parent, which would you rather have your kid playing?)  Teenagers can have fun with the RTS and killing stages (or whatever teenagers like), nerds will orgasm over the evolutionary aspects, adults can get away and create stories (or whatever attracts them to the Sims, multiplied by 2 because its a species).

I agree a demo will create a larger initial sale of the game; but I think in time, for this kind of game, it will reach about the same level as if you let people find out about the game from others.  I say this because I don't remember a HUGE rush for the original Sims, but people kept showing others and it eventually became the hit that it was.  I think we can't really say whether this is a niche game, however, until after E3.  Keep in mind that the number of people who read slashdot or gamingsteve, or gamespy often enough that they would learn about Spore is pretty small.  I know that of the 3 people (all non-hardcore gamers) I told about Spore, all 3 are excited about it.  Not 20 minutes after telling my one friend, he was telling another.  The hardcore gamers I hang out with seem anywhere from hopeful to ecstatic about this game.

C) I can't imagine the tidepool would really whet my appetite - and some people may think that this is as far as the game goes and get the wrong opinion about the game.  I can somewhat see a limited character creator; but releasing an entire portion of the game, at least pre-release seems unlikely to me (but I don't work for EA).

Offline Tr0n

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Re: Demo
« Reply #47 on: May 02, 2005, 01:02:11 pm »
Gotcha... and what you say sounds just as plausible.  I just come from a different background...I tend to profile gamers and to put them into containers beforehand.  You're right about the Sims.  Even Will Wright was blown away by it's popularity.  I see computer idiots come in all the time and the only thing they want me to do is fix their coputer so they can play The Sims.  I also see 80 percent of my customers come in with 4 year old EMachines and HP's riddles with spyware and the user is the one to blame.  The original Sims is playable on many many computers.  If Spore requires a heavy system to run on, that Sims market is in for a buy-install-crash-return cycle that I see all too often.  Spore may take off in the future (after it's been on the shelf for a while and stories about the game propagate to the millions of potential buyers.  No one can really predict that, but I hope it does.

I also know that there are a lot of games without a demo... and it works both ways.  People with stellar expectations are disappointed, and people who haven't heard aobut it get the wrong impression.  It happens all the time. Now, we're all fairly convinced that Spore is going to rock, so I suppose I should have more confidence in it's strangth regardless of a demo.

I guess, after it's all said n done, I just want to get ahold of something tangiable... something that is "Spore."  I won't NEED it, because I've all but put the money aside for this one already.  My perception is very biased because I, personally, want to play the game.  So, I'll say the cliche line of, "I don't care if a demo comes out, just as long as they make the game well and they do it right." :)
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Re: Demo
« Reply #48 on: May 02, 2005, 10:58:40 pm »
Thank god I didn't have to write what that other dude wrote in response to ABC. But C
C You give an editor and you give the game and you actually give the game without the money/points limitation so they will get bored of it. You give the tidepool and that's just a bad idea for getting people to want to play it and for the people who want to play already. The crappyness will scare the new comers and the completeness will be too much for a demo (Who the hell releases a demo of their actual game?) and will still get boring for them because they will want to move on. And no this doesn't make them want to go out and buy the game it just gives them a warped prespective of the larger game. And, and, and you are a poopy-head.

Offline Vib Rib

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Re: Demo
« Reply #49 on: May 02, 2005, 11:18:19 pm »
Bravo on that last one.
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Offline Tal

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Re: Demo
« Reply #50 on: May 03, 2005, 06:14:56 am »
I think that the best kind of demo would be the limited creature editor. Confine it only to the tidepool stage of the game and let them mess around all they want, tricking out their amoebas and such. No actual gameplay, but tons of customization with your single-celled organism. Then, as they save up their litte beasties, the central server can begin stocking up on mounds of predators and prey for the tidepool stage. Maybe over time release updates so that you can edit sea creatures, then land creatures. This will give you the all the demonstration you need to make fans salivate for more, and allow them to begin stocking the central server with all the creations they could ever need. Finally, when the game comes out, you can be rewarded by messing around in the demo by finally seeing the critter of your dreams running around in full 3-D.
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Re: Demo
« Reply #51 on: May 03, 2005, 10:24:04 am »
Guess Wulf's got a point.  Let's just remain in the dark, let those who already want the game thirst for it until it's released.  I'm simply afraid that without any sort of demo, the game will fly under the radar, and will sell poorly at first.  It's a proven fact that most of the casual gamers in the world don't read the articles, they download the game/demo when it comes out.  I'm pretty confident that Spore won't fail miserrably, but I think it deserves to be more than a cult classic.
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Offline syphonbyte

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Re: Demo
« Reply #52 on: May 03, 2005, 11:49:42 am »
You know, lots of times they don't release demos for games before they come out. (On purpose.)

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Re: Demo
« Reply #53 on: May 04, 2005, 05:28:16 am »
Since The Sims was so popular I doubt that EA will hold back on advertising this ****. The game will have really bad commercials on TV, just you wait. (People like bad commercials by the way)

Offline syphonbyte

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Re: Demo
« Reply #54 on: May 04, 2005, 06:39:08 am »
The Sims had like 1 commercial ever aired.

Offline merridian

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Re: Demo
« Reply #55 on: May 04, 2005, 07:36:14 am »
Don't know if anyone has already mentioned this thought, apologies if they have, but it seems like if there IS a demo it would just be the editor, in whatever evolutionary stage it may be, but they might include an empty 'world' for the creature to move around in. With this we can design our creatures and see how they move about. I would imagine it would be easy enough to make a blank 'world' that has the physics thrown in, rather than just the editor where we would obviously create some bizarre and crazy creatures but have no idea how or indeed if they could move about.

We can but hope.
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Re: Demo
« Reply #56 on: May 04, 2005, 07:53:48 am »
Don't know if anyone has already mentioned this thought, apologies if they have, but it seems like if there IS a demo it would just be the editor, in whatever evolutionary stage it may be, but they might include an empty 'world' for the creature to move around in. With this we can design our creatures and see how they move about. I would imagine it would be easy enough to make a blank 'world' that has the physics thrown in, rather than just the editor where we would obviously create some bizarre and crazy creatures but have no idea how or indeed if they could move about.

We can but hope.
The movement of creatures are tested within the editor.

Offline merridian

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Re: Demo
« Reply #57 on: May 05, 2005, 10:14:45 am »
Oh right ok.

Thanks for that, it makes sense i suppose.  :D
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