Author Topic: Thinking it over  (Read 19074 times)

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Offline lemurbouy

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Re: Thinking it over
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2005, 01:34:30 pm »
Hats off to Stromko.  This is what I hope happens in this game.  A sense of developing with your environment rather than simply issuing an order to the computer and seeing it happen without there being a sense of connectivity with the rest of the game.  Less sliders, more awesome.  -leeman

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Re: Thinking it over
« Reply #31 on: April 04, 2005, 06:59:05 am »
I forget if this is where I was reading stuff about this or not, but what the hell.
Drawing many conclusions and using educated guesses I'd say that your solar system is your playground when it comes to playing around with other creatures. It seems that to make the game run better and to make more sense system resource wise i'd say that progress (like evolution and displomacy or what ever) only happens in your solar system when you are activly working in it. It working like that just makes a whole heap of sense to me. That's to say that the universe is static unless you are actually there currently or it is within your solar system. This opens up lots of things like watching progression and doing experiments. If it wasn't like this then everything in the universe would be very simplified and rather bland when it is being processed. Questions?

Offline Stromko

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Re: Thinking it over
« Reply #32 on: April 04, 2005, 08:23:40 pm »

I find that pretty likely. If things were going on when we weren't around to observe them, then we ultimately wouldn't know why most of it was even happening, it's likely we couldn't really appreciate the complexity of what was going on. You might get constantly caught up in events that are forced upon you, instead of being able to conduct your policies, invasions, and experiments at your own pace.

You could just as easily simulate a living universe by having a random table of 'while you were out' random events, coupled with simplified time advancement. Say the first time you go to the planet Dogfish III, you see a scattering of arachnid and rodent tribes eking out an existence. Let's say maybe you mess with things a little, maybe you Uplift some of them with technology or knowledge, or maybe you grab a few of the native species and intermix them, selecting different traits and merging them into one species. Maybe you drop a select blend of the most vicious flesh-eating predators in the galaxy in select spots around the planet....

At any rate, even if you do nothing, the next time you visit Dogstar III it will determine with a very quick simulation what has happened since last you were there. You may find the planet dominated by one tribe that made the best use of advanced technology, perhaps they will be eager allies or bitter enemies, perhaps you will find that the hybrid species has taken over, perhaps you will find that the super-predators have exterminated all life on the world and then themselves starved out.. Perhaps there has been a dramatic climate change that changed the balance of power between the various tribes, perhaps some of them are advancing into industrial ages, or perhaps another space-bearing race have dropped colonies onto the world.

I don't think it necessarily has to change the whole nature of the end-game, if there are other space-bearing races, so long as their actions are limited. IE, no planet-busting, no messing with your homeworld or even colonies, no sweeping through the galaxy exterminating every creature they meet and demanding your immediate attention to save the diversity of the cosmos(but that would be kind of cool, come to think of it).

I guess my point is that, rather than having a totally static sandbox, we can go halfway on having a dynamic universe. Quick and massive changes to planets will mostly only be caused by you, and other races will not do the full array of things that you do; just like guests in Sims 2 don't have the full array of actions that you do. (But they need to leave my f%@(ing Simolean tree alone, or they ge trapped in the walls with all the rest..)

Offline Cobra

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Re: Thinking it over
« Reply #33 on: April 05, 2005, 12:36:46 am »
Personally I'm interested in the genetic modifng UFO hopefully using it on another sentent being on som random planet and then putting them back see what results now that essentally 2 different sentent species are on the planet.

Offline krjal

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Re: Thinking it over
« Reply #34 on: April 05, 2005, 06:11:17 am »
Conversly, it would be rather wierd to have left a planet for, say, 4 days realtime and come back to where nothing has changed.

This 'quick-time' simulation could work on a smaller scale (time scale that is) by only advancing at one tenth of the speed when the player isn't 'around'. I would assume that 'around' could be in the solar system.
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Re: Thinking it over
« Reply #35 on: April 07, 2005, 10:02:23 pm »
I've re-read what I said an it sounds a bit wrong. What I think I meant to say was that your solar system (with limited number of planets I'm guessing) would always be working no matter where you are. So jumping around the galaxy will still have your dudes being processed. I couldn't think of another way of doing it that is any better. (also I am doubting that you can visit the same solarsystem more than once)

Offline RealmRPGer

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Re: Thinking it over
« Reply #36 on: April 07, 2005, 10:44:59 pm »
Perhaps you're only allowed to leave the planet once it's been conquered (in one way or another). Then there could never really be much more expansion that you don't explicitly state.

I don't see how it would even be possible to not allow you to visit a solar system twice. You can't go back home? What about terraforming planets? You give it an atmosphere, leave to get some inhabitants, and you can't go back? WHY can't you go back? It doesn't make sense.

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Re: Thinking it over
« Reply #37 on: April 07, 2005, 11:08:19 pm »
Because once you have visited a planted it would have to be added to a list. The postion of everything on the world mapped. What they are doing, what they are going to do has to be processed. You visit 5000 planets and you will start to see why it is a problem mapping solar systems. And of course you can return home. As for terraforming, that's what your solar system is for.

Offline Zealousy

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Re: Thinking it over
« Reply #38 on: April 08, 2005, 12:08:27 am »
I don't see why any of this has to be processed if the player isn't nearby. Why do aliens from every planet we visit have to eat up processor power after making first contact? As cool as it would be to have code sleek enough to make this possible, it's hardly a requirement for game design. Do creatures actually go through evolutional stages independently of the player?

Of course, none of us know for sure, but in my opinion people are labeling those things that 'could be' as things that 'must be.'
« Last Edit: April 08, 2005, 12:10:23 am by Zealousy »
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Offline RealmRPGer

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Re: Thinking it over
« Reply #39 on: April 08, 2005, 01:38:25 am »
Yeah, it would take up a lot of processing power to do 5000 worlds, but it would be incredibly tedius if all your hard work suddenly became for naught. If there ARE things happening while you're away, it'd be much more likely that the game would only ever process ANY of that unless you were nearing the planet. It would do some quick calculations based on how long since the last update and the intelligence level of the creatures, etc. It doesn't take long for today's computers to generate a likely evolution path from that.

Offline krjal

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Re: Thinking it over
« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2005, 06:53:32 pm »
That was my guess too.

I'm sure I've seen something similar somewhere else as well, just got to remember where...
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Wulf

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Re: Thinking it over
« Reply #41 on: April 10, 2005, 07:06:46 pm »
Yeah, it would take up a lot of processing power to do 5000 worlds, but it would be incredibly tedius if all your hard work suddenly became for naught. If there ARE things happening while you're away, it'd be much more likely that the game would only ever process ANY of that unless you were nearing the planet. It would do some quick calculations based on how long since the last update and the intelligence level of the creatures, etc. It doesn't take long for today's computers to generate a likely evolution path from that.
This is what I keep saying, (at least I think I keep saying this) your solar system (should that be in capitols?) is where you do things. So if you visit planet X and you like the dudes there, you grab the dudes there and take them to your solar system. Seems limiting, but makes a lot of sense.

Offline Stromko

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Re: Thinking it over
« Reply #42 on: April 10, 2005, 09:19:14 pm »
Actually, I don't see the logic in that at all. :) The point of Spore using all this procedural content stuff from the 'demo scene' is so it can contain massive amounts of data in miniscule packages. I've played an FPS that was fully contained in 96K, granted it looked like Unreal Tournament '00 and it was laggy as hell, but this is because that game didn't have several gigs of uncompressed(ie: immediately accessible) content to draw from; which Spore surely will.

I wouldn't be surprised if a solar system and all of the state entries therein took up about 5k.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2005, 03:33:33 am by Stromko »

Wulf

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Re: Thinking it over
« Reply #43 on: April 11, 2005, 08:56:15 am »
*roll eyes* There is a difference between awesome data compression and complex algorythims running millions of times over for each planet times by a thousand.

Offline craigp

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Re: Thinking it over
« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2005, 10:09:46 am »
*roll eyes* There is a difference between awesome data compression and complex algorythims running millions of times over for each planet times by a thousand.
Well, not if the algorithms are simply extrapolative - IE you can just say "Two years later, they will be HERE" without having to actually do continuous computing.

-Craig