Author Topic: Episode 32 Posted  (Read 9149 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline eXistenZ

  • Brain Games Mastermind
  • *
  • Posts: 40
    • View Profile
    • Oddfellow Magazine
Episode 32 Posted
« on: January 04, 2006, 08:42:37 am »
Hello,

Now, don't get me wrong, I think Steve has great tastes, and I mostly agree with everything he says about games...but, I just couldn't sit idly by and let this massive misrepresentation go un-noted.

Battlefield 2:

Steve's mention of BF2 was tepid at best. In fact, it sounded like either he just doesn't like the BF series, never gave BF2 a real chance, or is one of the very small percentage of people that has trouble running BF2. He talked mostly about how it had major problems, and not one mention of how amazing it is.

Let me explain something first about myself--I am a FPShooter junky. I've been rocking every form of FPS for over 12 years...since the beginning of Wolf3D. I am extremely picky about all features of a FPS (graphics, sound, singleplayer/multiplayer, gameplay, balance, options, detail, physics, innovation, etc).

With that said, below are my top 5 FPShooters of all time:

1. Counterstrike-- (scores #1 because of the absolute silky smooth gameplay in every department. Also, the community and competition. And lastly the responsiveness and weapon/damage model) I am including CS:S and HL2 in this list as well, they all take #1...is that fair? Why sure it is. Valve is the king of the FPShooter genre, so be happy I'm only giving all their games one slot in this list.

2. BF2-- leagues above any other game which tries to do a MMOFPS. The shear detail and size of the environments are fantastic. The balance and gameplay is silky. The graphics are superb. The sound is amazing. The community is fantastic. Introduction of VOIP is a great addition (finally dammit). Squad and Commander implementation is a major plus. 60 player maps are so fun to play. The weapon/damage model is perfectly balanced.  And lastly but not least, the amount of vehicles/aircraft and weapons available.

BF2 not only scored an average of 90% on Gamerankings, but has also been praised all over as being one of the best FPShooters ever. Just recently, I was listening to PCGAMER Podcast and in doing their game picks of the year, several of the speakers mentioned BF2 as their top pick, and what they can't stop playing.

------------The ONLY problems with this game are the load times and server browser (browser almost fixed with latest patch).

------------and another thing, I'd like you all to be aware of something--my system specs:

*Dual PIII 1ghz
*1 gig SDram
*GeForce FX 5600 (256)
*ASUS

My video card isn't even supported, yet gameplay is smooth enough for me (on all low settings) that I not only enjoy the game, but personally give it GOTY! This IS my genre folks...and it is among the best ever!

***So why Steve practically trashed it on his '05 game picks is beyond me.

3.) Call of Duty-- again, another FPShooter with silky gameplay and responsiveness. Both the single player and multiplayer are fantastic. Everything about COD is a superb pick for FPShooters.

4.) Quake 3-- hell, for twitch based FPShooters...this is the best of the best. Move over UT.

5.) Farcry--no need to talk this baby up. It was amazing.

Honorable Mentions:

*UT
*FEAR
*Quake 2
*SOF 1 & 2
*Chronicles of Riddick (not a true FPShooter, but close enough to make the list)

Anyhow. This was a long post, but I had to get some of these things out. I just can't believe Steve spewed for minutes about certain games which I find boring, yet he downplayed BF2 like crazy, and practically said don't bother, it's too buggy. WRONG!

No offence Steve.

~eXistenZ
« Last Edit: January 06, 2006, 11:04:11 am by Gaming Steve »



Offline T-BirD

  • Battlezone Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 313
    • View Profile
Re: Episode 32--game picks issue & TOP 5 BEST FPShooters EVER!
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2006, 03:45:11 pm »
My list would look a tad different...

1. Original Quake - especially with the 3wave ctf mod.  It was just so...PURE!
2. Unreal Tournament (original and 2004)
3. Aliens vs Predator 2 (for single player), AvP 1 (for multiplayer)
4. No One Lives Forever series
5. Half-Life 2

Granted, I have yet to play FEAR beyond the demo.

I was tepid at best about the Soldier of Fortune.
I think Quake 2 was an atrocity against mankind (in terms of multiplayer) - it's the biggest gaming disappointment of my entire life.
I liked Battlefield 1942, but eventually grew tired of it.  Never bothered with Vietnam, and the demo of BF2 left me cold.
Call of Duty series - intense single player, but I just couldn't get into the multiplayer very much.
Counterstrike is loved by hundreds of thousands apparently, but it's just not for me.
Far Cry's single player was great!  ...until the last level - which ruined the rest of the game for me.  Multiplayer didn't do it for me.
Delta Force 2's multiplayer was great fun at Lans!
Quake 3 - much better than 2, slightly better than 4, still inferior to UT and Quake 1.
Painkiller - almost gets the original quake multiplayer feel right!
Chronicles of Riddick - phenomenal game, I agree.

I'm reminded of a quote I read a while back...that I'm going to butcher now thanks to my shoddy memory.  There's an ocean for every boat - be sure to sail the one that floats your's.

Offline Samog

  • Ultima III Time Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 2856
  • objectivists are dumb
    • View Profile
    • -
Re: Episode 32--game picks issue & TOP 5 BEST FPShooters EVER!
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2006, 06:02:28 pm »
The list I would draw the top 5 from:

Unreal Tournament (original)
Savage
Half-Life
Battlefield 1942
Quake
Thief series
Unreal
System Shock 2
Deus Ex
No one Lives Forever series
« Last Edit: January 04, 2006, 06:10:20 pm by Samog »
"Fine. Don't believe me. I'm not lying. all your laziness which you mistake for something funney is driving me insane, quit fooling around!  dude this is just wrong, very wrong. reality does not consist of constrained language. go lock this thread malt. I love the payment."4MOD

Offline eXistenZ

  • Brain Games Mastermind
  • *
  • Posts: 40
    • View Profile
    • Oddfellow Magazine
Re: Episode 32--game picks issue & TOP 5 BEST FPShooters EVER!
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2006, 07:46:46 am »
Interesting...

I thought Quake 2 was a fantastic multiplayer experience. In fact, it is the very game I honed my skills with--before Q2 I had never played with true mouse look. I logged so many hours into Q2, that I became a FPShooter aficionado. And from this, I had an extremely smooth transition to Quake 3 Arena.

I loved the simplicity of Q2. The responsiveness was fantastic, and the level design was perfectly balanced for multiplayer. If it weren't for Quake 2, I wouldn't be here today, with almost a million or more frags under my belt.

I must say, there are fanboys in every category, this is for sure. Usually, those that truly love UT, have something against Quake. Not that they don't respect Quake, it's just they talk up UT so hardcore...I love UT, don't get me wrong, but there is just something about Quake 3 that I like more. I suppose they are so close in awesomeness, it more about what you're in the mood to play at the time...but I can say that I've logged a ton of more hours in Q3 than UT.

As far as CS, usually the problem here is, those that think they are baddasses have their manhood handed to them on a platter. I always thought I was a great FPS player, until I played CS for the first time. But after 6 years now (somewhere around there), I've been chiseled into the league stomping madman I am today. Most people just can't handle the competition of CS...that's why they don't prefer it. My opinions only...

Offline n10sity

  • Space Invaders Junkie
  • *
  • Posts: 54
    • View Profile
Re: Episode 32--game picks issue & TOP 5 BEST FPShooters EVER!
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2006, 09:23:56 am »
Good. I've been wanting to reply to this post but I didn't want to be the first one to do it.

My list would be... (take it for what it's worth which isn't much)

1. Enemy Territory - The scary thing is that this game was free. What an awesome game. The only truly duty bound FPS that I can think of with real objectives. Try winning a game without a medic or an engineer. That added a component to the game that just made me fall in love with it. More strategy and less twitch made this game the most enjoyable FPS to date for me.
2. Unreal Tournament (original) - I might be a little bias seeing how this was the first game I've ever played online. Still, there is something crisp about the gameplay of UT. I like UT2k4 but the adaption of vehicles kind of taints it for me. Not saying it shouldn't have included vehicles it's just one of those weird, personal things. So guess how I feel about ET: Quake Wars.  ;)
3. Counter-Strike (version 1.5) - What can I say? This game will play on just about anything. People could play CS on the most gawd-awful machine known to man with relative success. I say 1.5 because this was the last of the pre-Steam CSs. Before Steam, CS was all about the sneak attacks and long distance headshots. Unlike just about every other FPS game out there, in CS you had to be careful. Footsteps could mean your doom and one little mistake could be your last. I thought that was great.
4. Quake (original) - Set the standards for multiplayer FPSs. Enough said. UT just took it to another level imho.
5. FEAR - For its single player. Probably the best single player FPS to date.

Honorable Mentions...
Half-Life 2 - It's soooo pretty.... (of course that will mean next to nothing in years to come)
Battlefield 1942 - The innovator for vehicles in FPS games. The thing is... it is easy to forget the FPS part, and all of a sudden... you're playing a flight simulator. Edited: Well, I guess Tribes might have been the innovator but vehicles didn't get popular in FPSs until BF1942 came along.
Aliens vs Predators - Mainly because of the aliens. Climbing the walls and biting someone's head off is awesome. Can't do that in any other game. It would probably be in my top 5 if it didn't give me massive headaches after a while.
Delta Force 2 - The most fun with a FPS I've ever had in a LAN setting. King of the pixel hunt.
Edited: Serious Sam - I can't believe I forgot about SS. The most fun co-op play a FPS can be unless you are the Ghost Recon type.

Games I thought didn't count...
Savage
Giants
Max Payne
« Last Edit: January 05, 2006, 09:47:41 am by n10sity »

Offline eXistenZ

  • Brain Games Mastermind
  • *
  • Posts: 40
    • View Profile
    • Oddfellow Magazine
Re: Episode 32--game picks issue & TOP 5 BEST FPShooters EVER!
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2006, 09:50:06 am »
I know FEAR is fantastic...but it still can't beat HL2. Here are my reasons:

*The way characters interacted with you in HL2 blew FEAR out of the water--to me this is really important.

*Then you have the environments. Again FEAR has great locals, but HL2 still trumps FEAR in this category.

*Next we take the weapon/hitbox damage model. HL2's damage model and weapon setup was superior in my book. Sure some people claim that HL2 enemies are too easy to kill...but in all actuality, this is the case for both games if you are a headshot god like me--I aim straight for the head, all the time, in every game.

*The enemies themselves in HL2 were more interesting. This includes the NPCs.

*Multiplayer...we know who takes this hands down--and I'm including both HL2 MP, and CS:S.


FEAR is a fantastic game, I must say. The scare factor, the atmosphere, and the story in FEAR are superior to HL2. These are all very important, but it doesn't elevate FEAR above the god of all single player FPShooters in my eyes.


« Last Edit: January 05, 2006, 09:57:41 am by eXistenZ »

Offline n10sity

  • Space Invaders Junkie
  • *
  • Posts: 54
    • View Profile
Re: Episode 32--game picks issue & TOP 5 BEST FPShooters EVER!
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2006, 12:28:43 pm »
*Warning* I'm about to talk about elements in FEAR and HL2. These shouldn't be considered spoilers for anyone but I don't know what someone might consider a spoiler so this is just a precaution.

*The way characters interacted with you in HL2 blew FEAR out of the water--to me this is really important.

But the thing is... in FEAR you weren't really suppose to be interacting with anyone. You are the lone wolf who shouldn't be surviving the things you are surviving but somehow you do. No one can interact with you because no one can get to the places you can. This is an essential element to the game. There aren't any convient people waiting for you to show because they are already dead. The enemy certainly isn't going to interact with you aside from the bullets in the gutt.  ;) Many times, you even lose your comlink and you are truly alone then.

Quote
*Then you have the environments. Again FEAR has great locals, but HL2 still trumps FEAR in this category.

Agreed although the destructive environment in FEAR was awesome. Waiting for the dust to clear really added to the chaos of the fights. That's something HL2 lacked.

Quote
*Next we take the weapon/hitbox damage model. HL2's damage model and weapon setup was superior in my book. Sure some people claim that HL2 enemies are too easy to kill...but in all actuality, this is the case for both games if you are a headshot god like me--I aim straight for the head, all the time, in every game.

You said it yourself. For most, HL2 enemies are too easy. It wasn't always possible to get headshots at least it wasn't for me. I didn't notice a significant difference in the hitboxes for both games. All I know is that the enemies in FEAR are much harder. In fact, the AI in FEAR are among some of the smartest AI that I can recall. I won't get into some of their habits from fear of spoiling it for people but I think you know why I say this. As for the weapons, I love the fact that you can only carry three weapons at a time in FEAR. I think it's unfair to compare the weapon setup in the two games because of they are so different in nature. The three weapons at a time fits so well with atmosphere of panic in FEAR though. I mean, you can't take it all. You don't know when you will run out of ammo in FEAR or when is the next time you will see a certain weapon and what the enemies will be using. So everytime you have a decision to make concerning which weapons to take and it's a pretty big decision.

Quote
*The enemies themselves in HL2 were more interesting. This includes the NPCs.

Admittedly, I haven't finished HL2 yet so maybe some who come later in the game are as you say.

Quote
*Multiplayer...we know who takes this hands down--and I'm including both HL2 MP, and CS:S.

That's a given.

Quote
FEAR is a fantastic game, I must say. The scare factor, the atmosphere, and the story in FEAR are superior to HL2. These are all very important, but it doesn't elevate FEAR above the god of all single player FPShooters in my eyes.

I don't want to call FEAR the "god of all single player' FPSs but I do believe it is the most fun overall out of all the games I've played so far. Of course, I haven't finished HL2 yet so things could turn out differently near the end of the game. Still, I already consider HL2 a great game just not as engaging as FEAR for me.

Offline eXistenZ

  • Brain Games Mastermind
  • *
  • Posts: 40
    • View Profile
    • Oddfellow Magazine
Re: Episode 32--game picks issue & TOP 5 BEST FPShooters EVER!
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2006, 02:55:36 pm »
Even in games where you are the "lone wolf", there are ways to make even the smallest rolled NPC engaging. This is another thing that HL2 did extremely well, the camaraderie of your NPC buddies which followed and fought with you through out the game.

Quickly about the AI. The AI in FEAR was admirable, but HL2 as well had great AI. The enemies would "find" a way to your location, and if they couldn't get there, they would find a spot they could shoot you from.

And come on...the gravity gun? Wow, what a great gameplay element. And on the same note, there were a lot of puzzles in HL2 which required use of a real in-world physics system. Very cool.

Well, I'm off to go jump on a subway and head home. Bye.

Offline Kagan

  • Crazy Climber Cuckoo
  • **
  • Posts: 140
    • View Profile
Re: Episode 32--game picks issue & TOP 5 BEST FPShooters EVER!
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2006, 04:29:40 pm »
BF2 was a horrendous game that screwed up the most important feature; aim. You could be right in front of someone, going full-auto, yet still miss. What kind of BS is that?

Offline T-BirD

  • Battlezone Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 313
    • View Profile
Re: Episode 32--game picks issue & TOP 5 BEST FPShooters EVER!
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2006, 04:57:24 pm »
I know I'm in the minority on Counterstrike - the gameplay just never did it for me.  Give me Operation Flashpoint or Ghost Recon anyday...or, if we should keep the style similar, I'd prefer RTCW or Enemy Territory, as well as Call of Duty objective mode.

As for Half Life 2's gravity gun - yeah, it was nice, but kind of overdone for me.  Some of the puzzles seemed like they were just there to delay your progress and say "hey, check out this super ultra neato thing we made!....and by Jove, you're gonna USE it!"  If possible, I tried to find ways around those puzzles  However, I must admit I really warmed up to the grav gun in the endgame  ;D

Many people love Quake 2....but I was weaned on the original Quake - furiously fast, and everything had OOMPH!  The most glaring example?  The Booming phallic Quake 1 rocket launcher with massive splash damage vs the pathetic thing that was supposed to be a rocket launcher in Quake 2.  Don't even get me started about how poor the grappling hook in quake 2 was compared to that of the 3wave ctf mod for the original...sure, it was more realistic by including gravity, but was it more fun?  not at all, in my book.  Being able to grapple the end of a hallway 100 feet away and then get pulled along inches from the ground at high speeds was awesome.  If Quake 2 hadn't carried the "Quake" name, I wouldn't feel nearly as venomously about it as I do.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2006, 05:02:04 pm by T-BirD »

Offline Kishmond

  • Ultima III Time Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 2891
  • Alfalfa Mainframe
    • View Profile
    • I'll Eat Your Brains
Re: Episode 32--game picks issue & TOP 5 BEST FPShooters EVER!
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2006, 05:18:50 pm »
When I was a kid I just didn't like FPShooters because, frankly, they were scary.  :-\ I was one of those kids who would jump up and down in tense moments in games such as Donkey Kong 64 (good game BTW, nice and long). Of course I'm over that, and the first FPS I ever liked was Goldeneye 007. I remember playing that with my 2 favorite cousins in the world, who both love games, but are tough critics. Anyway the guy who was about 4 or 5 years older than me totally owned me, but it was still fun (I'm not a sore loser). I especially loved the remote bombs, and blowing up entire hallways at once was cool. Goldeneye, it's a wonder I haven't bought it yet...

Of course Battlefield 2 was fun, I preordered it, having liked Battlefield Vietnam, but only in single player. Other people have already explained why Battlefield 2 is fun, so I can skip this part.

Doom. I think it was Ultimate Doom that I played over LAN with my brothers (and sister). I played coop (they ARE in fact very bad sore losers and don't like to play competitively with me  :() on the Ultra-violence setting (Nightmare was impossible) and with 3 other fighters, it was fun. I remember my favorite level was one of the final levels in a pack called TNT (Which I can't find anymore! Aargh! Where on the net is TNT!?). The players started out in a small room with just a shotgun and pistol. RIGHT OUTSIDE the door was a Cyber-Demon that we had soooo much fun trying to kill on many suicide missions.

That was a lot of writing stuff. I'll think of more later.

Quote from: Kagan
BF2 was a horrendous game that screwed up the most important feature; aim. You could be right in front of someone, going full-auto, yet still miss. What kind of BS is that?
That, is why you miss...
Or maybe it's lag.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2006, 05:23:22 pm by Kishmond »
Yeah, [Kishmond] came back from Africa, but the ponies have him now.

Offline n10sity

  • Space Invaders Junkie
  • *
  • Posts: 54
    • View Profile
Re: Episode 32--game picks issue & TOP 5 BEST FPShooters EVER!
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2006, 06:11:20 pm »
I know I'm in the minority on Counterstrike - the gameplay just never did it for me.  Give me Operation Flashpoint or Ghost Recon anyday...or, if we should keep the style similar, I'd prefer RTCW or Enemy Territory, as well as Call of Duty objective mode.

There really isn't another game with the same style as Counter-Strike in my opinion. It would fall somewhere between the games you mentioned. Somewhere between Ghost Recon and ET although admittedly it's a little more on the ET side than the Ghost Recon side.

Offline n10sity

  • Space Invaders Junkie
  • *
  • Posts: 54
    • View Profile
Re: Episode 32--game picks issue & TOP 5 BEST FPShooters EVER!
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2006, 06:15:02 pm »
Even in games where you are the "lone wolf", there are ways to make even the smallest rolled NPC engaging. This is another thing that HL2 did extremely well, the camaraderie of your NPC buddies which followed and fought with you through out the game.

I see what you are saying but if I saw some smiling friendly holding some bullets and a medkit to give to me in the places I had to get to in FEAR. I would have had to shoot someone for real... well maybe not for real but I would have written a nasty email.  :P

Offline Gaming Steve

  • Master Chief
  • Dig Dug Digger
  • *****
  • Posts: 1543
    • View Profile
    • Gaming Steve
Episode 32 Posted
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2006, 11:02:39 am »
In the last Gaming Steve of 2005 I sit down with the Vice President of Big Huge Games, Tim Train (Civilization, Master of Orion, Alpha Centauri). Big Huge Games made the excellent Rise of Nations and is hard at work on the upcoming RTS Rise of Legends.

In the interview we cover the game's unique setting, issues we both had with Alpha Centauri, how the RTS genre is evolving, playing Magic: The Gathering, how to balance a complex RTS, the very cool Rise of Legends single-player campaign, the why the director's cut of the movie Aliens really stinks. Oh yeah, and I also go over my best games of 2005. Enjoy!

Gaming Steve Episode 32 Program
  • 00:03:14  GameTalk: Interview with Tim Train from Big Huge Games, the makers of the upcoming Rise of Legends.
  • 01:13:41  Special Feature: The best games of 2005.
  • 01:51:08  Final Thoughts on what 2006 will bring us and farewell until then!

Get the Podcast from this page (113 minutes): Gaming Steve Episode 32 (MP3).

Subscribe to the Podcast directly in iTunes (MP3).
Add the Gaming Steve Podcast feed to your RSS aggregator.
Vote for Gaming Steve on Podcast Alley.
Check out Gaming Steve on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/thegamingsteve

Offline eXistenZ

  • Brain Games Mastermind
  • *
  • Posts: 40
    • View Profile
    • Oddfellow Magazine
Re: Episode 32 Posted
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2006, 11:49:46 am »
Oh no he Didn't!

Steve did not just auto-post some mundane obvious off-topic stuff on top of the post I started. Wow, I didn't realize he does stuff like that. To top it off, he didn't even reply to my issues on the podcast he's auto-posting about. And lastly, he actually changed the subject line of this thread to suit his needs. Clearly my topic isn't about Podcast # 32...it's about an ISSUE I had with 32--Wow...this changes everything

Ok, I understand...he doesn't read these posts--he's a busy man. I just wasn't aware of this practice. No offense to anyone.

Anyhow.

Firstly, I have to say Quake 2 was FAR superior to Quake 1. The don't even compare in multiplayer. The main reason is simple: MOUSE LOOK. You had full control over looking up and down...all over. This changed the entire genre...before this, FPSs were mostly crappy in the multiplayer department.

BF2 was a horrendous game that screwed up the most important feature; aim. You could be right in front of someone, going full-auto, yet still miss. What kind of BS is that?

Wow. I must say this is a rubbish statement. Horrendous game? Ummm...have you seen the gamerankings scores? Have you read the reviews? Have you any skill in FPShooters?

Sounds to me like you just stink at FPShooters. And that's ok, many people do. Many people get frustrated when they continually get killed over and over. When their weapons don't work like other games they are accustomed to...this frustrates people, and causes them to consider a game "horrendous." But in all actuality, you probably just aren't too skilled at the genre or BF2.

Firstly, if you unload full auto right in front of someone and you don't hit them...that sounds like a personal problem. You must be doing something wrong. Are you using an M60 standing up running around? MY advice to you is practice--in time you won't miss nearly as much.

Let me clarify: It is NOT the game engine's fault you can't kill your enemy. It is the end-user's abilities that are in question. Thousands and thousands of BF2 players have little trouble hitting an enemy when they aim at them PROPERLY.

Things to keep in mind:

*Squat when you shoot (go prone if your enemy is unaware of your presence)
*Use 3-5 bullet bursts...always (there are exceptions to this rule...but you must gain skill to understand)
*Aim small -- Miss small (from The Patriot --do not aim at your enemy...aim at their nose. This will naturally decrease inaccuracy)
*Choose your weapon wisely depending on your situation
*As soon as you run out of primary ammo, switch to pistol on hotkey, and continue to aim small...once depleted, knife the bastard)


These will help you, follow them well. :)
« Last Edit: January 06, 2006, 11:53:55 am by eXistenZ »