Author Topic: Dawn of war 3  (Read 2270 times)

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Offline Ultimatum

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Dawn of war 3
« on: May 03, 2016, 09:05:26 am »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_ZgyNoHtjw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_ZgyNoHtjw</a>

This is going to be good

no chaos in sight though,they are saving them for later!



Offline PatMan33

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Re: Dawn of war 3
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2016, 05:05:51 pm »
There was no gameplay. I need to know if I can build walls around my base. This matters a lot.

Offline Inkling

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Re: Dawn of war 3
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2016, 07:25:55 pm »
They did a good job on casting Not-Galadriel for the narrator, though.
Probably not a Goat, either.


Offline Brandonazz

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Re: Dawn of war 3
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2016, 10:13:50 pm »
Just played a round of DoW 2 and got some good ork-smashing out of my system.

So when is this?

Offline Ultimatum

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Re: Dawn of war 3
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2016, 03:43:35 am »
2017

Offline Krakow Sam

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Re: Dawn of war 3
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2016, 04:11:41 am »
There was no gameplay. I need to know if I can build walls around my base. This matters a lot.

You'll never be able to build walls in a 40k RTS.

Sorry dude but most modern RTS games try to make turtling not be a thing and I don't really see that changing any time soon.
Sam is basically right, he's just cranky.

Offline Ultimatum

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Re: Dawn of war 3
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2016, 05:01:22 am »
the only walls we build are ones made of fallen enemies

Offline PatMan33

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Re: Dawn of war 3
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2016, 05:42:17 am »
Sorry dude but most modern RTS games try to make turtling not be a thing and I don't really see that changing any time soon.

Very depressing. Base building was my favorite part of RTS.

Offline Krakow Sam

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Re: Dawn of war 3
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2016, 06:06:17 am »
See I think all it would take is for someone to design a new type of game which is built from the ground up to support that sort of play.

The problem is that I think in most RTS games the base-building is very shallow since it's just a means to an end. I loved turtling in Age of Empires when I played it as a kid but when I tried to play AoE2 more recently I was dismayed at how boring it was. Literally just sitting on my base, building workers, gathering resources and building farms so I could make more workers. You can tech up all the way to castle or imperial age before anyone actually initiates combat (including the AI) because the game is so defensively focused, and then when you do finally go to war there's not much strategy because it all boils down to who gathered more resources and therefore can field the bigger army to knock down the enemy's defences.

Building the base can be very fun in terms of setting up a little toy-town or fort, but I feel like in a war strategy it's just taking focus away from actually fighting the war and in the worst cases requires you to babysit your base/economy to an excessive degree.

If we saw a resurgence in those castle-building siege simulators (which I never played so no idea if they were any good), or the development of some sort of asymmetrical RTS where one side built a base and the other side had to assault it (with a large force but no base and limited ability to reinforce their troops) then I think it would be more interesting. As it is, just remaking old style (AoE, C&C, DoW1 etc) RTS games with shinier graphics doesn't seem worthwhile since many of those games are still perfectly playable.
Sam is basically right, he's just cranky.

Offline PatMan33

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Re: Dawn of war 3
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2016, 06:28:45 am »
The Castle building games were okay. Played a few of them when I was younger.

I dunno, everything after you said "how boring it was" sounds fun to me. I like sitting there watch them do their thing and messing with the numbers or the location of a specific building. And that's why I want walls because with walls I can funnel enemies here or prevent them from going there. It's neat! I guess it is like a much more focused city building game where geography is more important.

Command & Conquer, StarCraft, and Supreme Commander were fun. But if there's no base building I probably won't play the RTS. Dawn of War (1 or 2 I can't remember but I played both of them) was fun because it let me build bases and I got to color in a map.

They should make a base building RTS where you defend against waves or something. But then again I completely disagree with this:

Building the base can be very fun in terms of setting up a little toy-town or fort, but I feel like in a war strategy it's just taking focus away from actually fighting the war and in the worst cases requires you to babysit your base/economy to an excessive degree.

Yeah like in real life. You need a base to project your power and you better protect it.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 06:30:36 am by PatMan33 »

Offline Krakow Sam

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Re: Dawn of war 3
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2016, 07:02:26 am »
Right but in real life one guy doesn't simultaneously oversee the placement, running and maintenance of the base, management of all personnel in the base, the training and deployment of soldiers and vehicles and squad level tactics of troops in the field. Running a war in real life is a massive undertaking for a buttload of people. A game either needs to hone in on a few specific aspects which are manageable for one person to run simultaneously or have really good AI automation so that elements the player doesn't want to or can't deal with can be safely ignored.

As it is people have been wretched at developing auto-management AI for these games and relying on it when your opponent doesn't is just asking for trouble.

The main issue I think is that people who make games often don't or can't think about why they're making certain decisions. A lot of RTS games have stuff in them because "that's what you have in an RTS". In a lot of games a lot of elements of base-building don't add anything to the experience.

Think about the games where you start off with your resources already inside your base (so they're safe from raiding) but the game requires you to still build "harvester" type units to collect them, instead of just ticking those resources directly into your stockpile. It just adds unnecessary steps. The first Dawn of War (and subsequent games like Company of Heroes and DoW2) did away with harvesting resources in favour of control points, which actually encouraged you to go and take territory instead of turtling in your base. I'm not saying base building in RTS games is bad, I'm saying if it's going to be in there then people need to actually think about what they're trying to achieve with it.
Sam is basically right, he's just cranky.

Offline PatMan33

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Re: Dawn of war 3
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2016, 07:32:57 am »
If someone wants to turtle for a whole round, that's their strategy and they should be able to do it. Since you're so good at getting out there and strategizing it shouldn't be a problem for you to beat me. I want the option and don't see why it's such a big deal.

Right but in real life

It's video games. I like video games with base building. That's all.

Real life has nothing to do with it. StarCraft is arguably the most popular RTS ever and it has nothing remotely realistic in it. I mean except for the base building. That's a thing real people do. And the start up process is important. It's a fundamental. You should be able to win or lose a game at any time. Heck, it opens up an avenue for people with an early victory style of strategy to exercise their own creativity.

I cannot see how having the extra option is a bad thing. If you don't want to build a base, don't build a base. That's fine too. But then you can't access R&D and advance technologies. I don't see why you can't have it both ways. But to get rid of one way is silly. Because for as many people out there that are like you who hate base building, there are just as many people out there like me that haven't been able to enjoy a RTS for like, a decade because they took one of our favorite parts out.

Offline Celdur

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Re: Dawn of war 3
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2016, 12:12:52 pm »
Both ways should be a thing. That goo rts was pretty good from what I saw but thats not really enough to revitalise the genre.
I kind of agree with sam though that there isnt really much depth in most RTS base building.
you don't really have much control in them, you don't really decide what to do based on what's going on for the first 20 minutes of a match, you're just going through the motions.

Control points was a great idea for resource gathering, because it sparked early game conflict, and CoH had forward defences you could make to keep those points yours.
Stuff like sandbags and machine guns and bunkers, so it was almost like you expanded your base across half the map, creating a sort of front line.
and then in CoH you also still had a few buildings you could make, and you could make all of them pretty much from the start, but had to choose what to focus on.
I feel like CoH really did stuff right, because you never knew what you were going to use from the start of the game, you always had to adapt and respond to the opponent, but it really didnt focus on a central base, just on having a few things here and there.

I should give stronghold another try, I think a multiplayer rts where one player attacks and the other defends could be pretty neat.

Quote from: Krakow sam
That quote is actualy very witty, Celdur. I suggest you use that in your signature.

Offline PatMan33

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Re: Dawn of war 3
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2016, 12:30:56 pm »
I wanted to play the goo game but never got to it. I liked what CoH did, it wasn't perfect but it was cool and an acceptably middle-ground that was made very appealing by excellent gameplay.

Oh also I hope you dorks are ready to pick Necrons out of your ass. Because we're getting Necrons.

Offline Ultimatum

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Re: Dawn of war 3
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2016, 12:39:52 pm »
The Necrons will be the most over powered race in the game,their units can't die..their monoliths destroy everything

I look forward to crushing them with the titans!