Author Topic: 2016 Election  (Read 224832 times)

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Offline PatMan33

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Re: 2016 Elections
« Reply #1110 on: April 30, 2016, 09:52:19 pm »
I mean I'll agree with ChiToes on some of this. There is clearly a double-standard on both sides, and the anti-Trump people, much like the regressive left have completely deluded themselves if they think their aggressive style of protest is helping anything. Where's the social contract? Where is the respect? Because these people have been raising a stink and being a general embarrassment since long before Trump appeared.

Ink is incredibly on-point though when he says that we agree this behavior is unacceptable. And a lot of this back and forth seems to be more about being right than trying to delve into the issue and examine where it came from and where it is going.


And on the topic of Trump... I know he's a businessman and I know he pays politicians and plays the game and frankly has done a lot of things I really hate. Cruz seems to think attacking him over these things is a worthy pursuit; however, I feel three things:

A) Cruz is calling Trump out for the same things that Cruz himself would do and has done, only he does it from the inside and is the recipient.
B) Cruz uses this portrayal of Trump to call him a "insider" while Cruz maintains that he himself is an "outsider", which strikes me as totally silly - Trump wasn't an insider politician, he was using insider politicians... of which Ted Cruz is one of them.
C) From the very start Trump never made any bones about his campaign donations and why he did them. The first damn debate, one of the first freaking questions he was asked was about his donations to the Clintons and other politicians and he owned up to it immediately, never tried to sugar coat it or lie, and stated the plain fact that this is how business gets done in the US and if you want to make a lot of money, you have to buy a Senator or Rep.

What I am saying is that one of the big reasons I like Donald Trump is that for all the hot air he spews and despite his role in doing things I deplore, I don't feel like he's lying to me. Ted Cruz can barely string an honest-sounding sentence together. When I look at Trump it's almost like Mitt Romney but without the smugness or the attempts to dress up the turd. Trump addresses pretty much any and all issues head on, irrespective of what kind of ratings it may garner. He's being himself, and "himself" seems like a real person. I can respect that and I can stand behind that. Because that is a fundamental aspect of what I think makes a good public servant. Everything starts and ends with being honest with yourself. Trump doesn't lie about who he is, he embraces it and will take anyone to task that tries to put him down for who he is. That is a trait that is sorely missing in our government. Our politicians don't even know who they are anymore.

Trump may not have details and substance, but I'm willing to wait for him to hire the best damn team money can buy to figure that out. It's not like any one of these politicians has plans concrete enough to base policy on at this point in the game anyway.


Offline Rysworld

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Re: 2016 Elections
« Reply #1111 on: April 30, 2016, 10:59:59 pm »
I'm real tired of people bashing Trump on his appearance.

I'm tired of people bashing politicians based on their appearance in general, but with Trump it seems to be more acute.

Offline PatMan33

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Re: 2016 Elections
« Reply #1112 on: April 30, 2016, 11:14:43 pm »
Except Carly Fiorina. I mean look at that face!

lol okay but for real. Carly Fiorina... watch her when she does interviews. Her head starts waggling around in a schwifty fashion. Someone needs to coach her to not do that.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQhNF3L2Rec" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQhNF3L2Rec</a>

I can't not see it now and she does it EVERY ****ING TIME.

Offline Inkling

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Re: 2016 Elections
« Reply #1113 on: May 01, 2016, 12:00:28 am »
I agree that hitting Trump on his appearance is dumb.  There are so many other things to attack about him.  But it's such a massive target, it's hard for people to resist.  Trump, whether it's who he really is or not, portrays himself as Ego and Vanity personified.  Everything he touches is a success, everything he does is the best and most luxurious, just ask him.  But everything about his appearance is so blatantly fake.  And he's so thin skinned about it:

http://www.npr.org/2016/03/07/469209254/decades-later-spy-magazine-founders-continue-to-torment-trump

And that ties back to why I can't buy Trump as honest.  Yes, he'll be blunt about things when actual politicians would dodge the issue.  But he's so obviously putting on an act.  Look, every politician panders.  But Trump does it so badly and yet it still works.  Does this really look like an honest display of patriotism, or does it look like the **** eating grin of someone who knows how stupid groping a flag is, but knows that it's working?

Probably not a Goat, either.


Offline PatMan33

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Re: 2016 Elections
« Reply #1114 on: May 01, 2016, 12:18:15 am »
Wouldn't be the first time a bad actor ended up being a decent President.

I don't think he has any idea what he's doing, he's just trying to win. That's it. That's the game. If he wins he can get caught up on what he needs to know. Part of the reason I am willing to give him a chance is because I have no idea what he's going to do. I really really like that he is clearly not a conservative or a liberal. He takes what he wants from both and goes. I don't want either ideological faction in our government to gain too much power. An executive that couldn't give two craps about towing the party line sounds like a dream. The Legislative Branch will be forced to either stop bickering and work, or reveal that they are really the same entity when they band together to screw over the Executive Branch. They can't win.

But let's look at some things he has said.

He said he is willing to negotiate, compromise, and walk. I love this. Compromise is not a four letter word and our current politicians should be ashamed of themselves for pretending that it is. He wants to extend a hand of cooperation to Russia and China. This is fantastic. We're better together and the world is better when we're together. And on this point I think there is something really potentially great. Trump is willing to ignore the existing paradigms. Yeah, Russia is our rival but the Cold War is over and why should we still be so antagonistic toward one another? We can still be pricks at one another. Trump says he wants to "pay back" what he owes to the American public. He is admitting that his successes have happened in part because of the country that we have built. When plenty of other rich people and corporations are dodging taxes and shipping out jobs that were and are made possible by America's citizens, Trump is admitting that he is nothing without the people. He believes in a social contract and being a citizen.

It's 3am and I'm rambling on. But whatever. Will he be a great President? Probably not. Will be a bad President? Probably not. Go Trump!

I DON'T WANT ANOTHER ****ING LAWYER IN THE OVAL OFFICE.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2016, 12:21:36 am by PatMan33 »

Offline Inkling

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Re: 2016 Elections
« Reply #1115 on: May 01, 2016, 12:27:08 am »
And you hit the key issue here, I think.  It's something we've gone over before, though I can't remember if it was in this thread.  Why you like him and why I don't.

Part of the reason I am willing to give him a chance is because I have no idea what he's going to do.

The same unpredictability that is a selling point for you terrifies me.
Probably not a Goat, either.


Offline PatMan33

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Re: 2016 Elections
« Reply #1116 on: May 01, 2016, 10:54:51 am »
The same unpredictability that is a selling point for you terrifies me.

Isn't that neat? I think that's just pretty interesting. And despite that huge chasm in opinion, we can still talk and debate and have fun. What a novel idea!

Also, I think it's cool that I am alive in a time where I can vote to install a complete wildcard into the highest office of the most powerful country ever in history. To elect a person that the broken machine hates so much that they haven't even bothered to put on one of their masks before they try to tear him down. How many people past and future will ever be able to say that? (by the way this isn't really a valid reason why I want to vote, it's just neat)

Offline Brandonazz

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Re: 2016 Elections
« Reply #1117 on: May 01, 2016, 11:09:07 am »
The same unpredictability that is a selling point for you terrifies me.

Isn't that neat? I think that's just pretty interesting. And despite that huge chasm in opinion, we can still talk and debate and have fun. What a novel idea!

Also, I think it's cool that I am alive in a time where I can vote to install a complete wildcard into the highest office of the most powerful country ever in history. To elect a person that [the current regime openly opposes]. How many people past and future will ever be able to say that?

The population of every country on Earth that has ever elected a dictator? Southeast Asia? South America? Most of Africa?

EDIT: My bad, didn't see "most powerful." I guess my only example might be Hitler then. Germany was arguably the most powerful military at WW2's outbreak, yeah?

And wasn't Reagan considered a 'wild card who tell it like it be?' I don't know much about his public perception during his time.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2016, 11:17:14 am by Brandonazz »

Offline PatMan33

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Re: 2016 Elections
« Reply #1118 on: May 01, 2016, 11:41:19 am »
To me "most powerful" conveys more than just raw military power. Germany didn't have a stranglehold on world affairs and control of the oceans, air, and space when Hitler was elected. And their economy certainly wasn't what I'd call a good one. Ours may have some issues but it's not Germany during the 20s and 30s. Anyway that's neither here nor there.

I don't know what the perception of Reagan was back then. I think Carter was the one picking up most of that kind of press in light of his missteps.

Offline Krakow Sam

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Re: 2016 Elections
« Reply #1119 on: May 01, 2016, 04:39:34 pm »
Well in non-military power the USA is still behind Germany apparently >_>

http://softpower30.portland-communications.com/ranking

Not quite sure how these results are calculated or what they mean but its interesting so I'll have to take a look at it when it's not past midnight.
Sam is basically right, he's just cranky.

Offline PatMan33

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Re: 2016 Elections
« Reply #1120 on: May 01, 2016, 06:55:13 pm »
Looks like the US' overall score is dragged down by whatever the "government" score is.

Well good thing the UK and Germany are all part of the same machine.

Offline Krakow Sam

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Re: 2016 Elections
« Reply #1121 on: May 02, 2016, 03:01:17 am »
Pat the Uk and Germany both get a massive boost to their score because of Eurovision. The most culturally important event in history.
Sam is basically right, he's just cranky.

Offline PatMan33

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Re: 2016 Elections
« Reply #1122 on: May 02, 2016, 06:54:18 am »
Pat the Uk and Germany both get a massive boost to their score because of Eurovision. The most culturally important event in history.

I cannot deny this and retain my credibility.

Offline Krakow Sam

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Re: 2016 Elections
« Reply #1123 on: May 02, 2016, 07:21:46 am »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FsVeMz1F5c" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FsVeMz1F5c</a>
Sam is basically right, he's just cranky.

Offline PatMan33

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Re: 2016 Elections
« Reply #1124 on: May 02, 2016, 07:30:14 am »


>culture