Author Topic: Sexism and Equality  (Read 3885 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline MasterChiToes

  • Fire Truck Driver
  • *
  • Posts: 30
    • View Profile
Sexism and Equality
« on: October 30, 2014, 07:08:00 pm »
...
« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 02:11:57 am by MasterChiToes »



Offline Haseri

  • Lode Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2216
    • View Profile
Re: Harassment and the Emergent Western Gender Caste System
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2014, 06:01:21 am »
I wouldn't say all social interactions are becoming harassment.

The thing to take away from that video is: women aren't dressing up and putting on perfume for you, or for me, or anyone on the street. My friend does not wear (often low cut) dresses because she wants to impress men, she wears them because she likes vintage-style dresses. Does she look good in them? Yes, but she wouldn't really appreciate it if I said so. Mostly because its not appropriate, and is not why I like being her friend.

The only person a woman wants a compliment from (in my experience) is her female friends, not some stranger only complimenting her on her looks. Her partner as well obviously, but that's a given. I rarely give compliments to friends and usually when they've made an effort to dress up and look good, especially if I've not seen them in a while. I wouldn't do it on a daily basis, because it's not appropriate.

I don't think it's that hard to pick up on social cues - it all depends on the situation. If someone's comfortable around you, they'll make it pretty obvious. Just remember the golden rule - treat others how you wish to be treated. But Haseri, don't you like being complimented? Yes, on the occasions I am. But the times it happens its because I'm receptive to them, and they're from people I know. I enjoy the confidence boost, and get on with my day. But people yelling at me from their cars or shouting things to me on the street (compliments or not)? Pretty damn disturbing.

I can understand why people get defensive when people lump men together. I don't catcall, why am I lumped in the jerks who are? Except I'm not. She's not talking about you or me, she's talking about the people in the video. I don't know who Rebecca Watson is or the circumstances behind her being asked out for coffee, but I expect it wasn't just about that. Nobody likes being called out on something they didn't do, but one should at least be self-aware enough when they are called out on things they do.

You said so yourself, your experience is limited, especially in urban areas. Mine isn't as limited and I'm just not seeing the kinds of things I'm reading - not just you, but every time I read something like this. The idea of a 'Western Gender Caste System' is (this isn't meant as an attack) not only wrong, but damaging to the idea that men and women can interact with one another with everyone being comfortable and happy. Women (the ones I know anyway) don't want a segregated society, they just want one where they're treated with respect. You talk of poisoned wells - come to any kind of relationship with the attitude that people are just waiting to screw you over in some way, of course your interactions are going to be painted by that (I'm not saying this of you in particular, but people of that certain 'put-upon men' vs 'shrewish women' mindset).

Offline Haseri

  • Lode Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2216
    • View Profile
Re: Harassment and the Emergent Western Gender Caste System
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2014, 11:29:56 am »
To be honest, it's just as much something I wanted to get off my chest. It's like on International Women's Day and people ask when's International Men's Day? Well, it's the other 364 days a year. When's White History Month? The other 11 months of the year. Why no Straight Pride Parades? I don't know, look at any screen to see us heterosexuals being all straight in people's faces. I'm a media studies student, but it shouldn't take to long to realise that straight white guys are still pretty damn powerful, and that's not likely to change in the short term.

Equality isn't a zero sum game. Masculinity isn't being attacked. Or it is, but its something that needs changing. No matter what the reason, harassing a woman while she's walking down the street is not acceptable. I don't believe in a universal need for respect. A need to be liked, accepted? I won't ever stop agreeing with you. But I would never say a person can demand respect off of someone they don't know, especially if that demand comes in the form of a catcall, then acting all offended when she doesn't reciprocate. Respect must be earned. I've earned the respect of my friends and peers, they've earned the respect of me.

I don't expect respect off of the person walking by in the street. Courtesy maybe - saying excuse me and thank you, not catcalling or shouting without warrant. But that's it, and I treat people with that same courtesy.

I don't know what to say about the 'group attacks' on men. I don't think saying 'Guys, please stop harassing me' violates the golden rule. I expect to be called out on my behaviour, and have done. She isn't talking to me, she's talking (however uselessly) to the people who do that kind of thing.

Offline Inkling

  • S.T.U.N. Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 8056
  • Not a Squid.
    • View Profile
Re: Harassment and the Emergent Western Gender Caste System
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2014, 04:16:17 pm »
Listen to your mother and never talk to strangers.
Probably not a Goat, either.


Offline eropS

  • Out Run Speedster
  • *****
  • Posts: 5136
  • That's right, I went there
    • View Profile
Re: Harassment and the Emergent Western Gender Caste System
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2014, 10:23:01 am »
Damn that guy is hot
No, no, he did. In the everything else section, at least. Officially, this makes him king.

Offline Inkling

  • S.T.U.N. Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 8056
  • Not a Squid.
    • View Profile
Re: Harassment and the Emergent Western Gender Caste System
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2014, 11:14:01 am »
Doesn't seem like much of a prank.  But that's no excuse for you to harass him, erops.  You should be ashamed of yourself.
Probably not a Goat, either.


Offline Brandonazz

  • Baseball SuperStar
  • *****
  • Posts: 8885
  • Hoc etiam transibit
    • View Profile
    • My Internet Treasure Trove
Re: Harassment and the Emergent Western Gender Caste System
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2014, 07:52:15 pm »
Damn that guy is hot

Dem pectorals.

Offline Great Distance

  • Gyruss Gyrusian
  • *****
  • Posts: 2706
    • View Profile
Re: Harassment and the Emergent Western Gender Caste System
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2014, 02:54:12 pm »
A few weeks ago I dressed up real nice... and then some random dude just had to come to speak to me and tell me I look like "The Moon Girl".

So naturally I ran away screaming and called the police... No, actually I had to wait an hour for the train anyway, so I had some coffee with him.

That doesn't normally happen to me though, so I figure if it happened constantly it would get a bit tiring... And men who just want you for your looks are idiots, anyway. But I can totally relate to the feeling of being rejected. Guys are just human, too... Thank god guys don't think it's a huge issue if a girl thinks they're hot.

But yeah, I basically think some women are stuck-up bitches. But it's understandable from their perspective. You are a hot woman and men are constantly after you. It's not like you're desperate enough to hook up with some random dude straight off the street.

Unless you happen to hit on someone who is not always that attractive. They might be desperate enough. But if looks are what mattered to you, you're setting yourself up for disappointment anyway. :D

Ladies and gentlemen, the human race is doomed. Who gives a ****. There will always be people who think you are a creepy creeper but there will also be people who are willing to give you a chance... and risk being mugged/raped or whatever. Now who is offending whom I don't know. But generalising all men as "street harassers"... or women as "stuck-up bitches" isn't certainly the way to go.

Some things, I think, humanity just has to accept. Some people being bothered by other people being attracted to them is just a natural consequence of the way the world works... As long as you're not actually hurting anyone, it's alright. It may be stupid depending on circumstances, but it's not like you should put everyone in jail who makes a social mishap. For example that guy who was asking her if "he's too ugly" sounded like an insecure guy, and it makes sense to me he wouldn't stop asking... The least she could do is acknowledge the guy and wave him off or something. If I were him, I would've come out of that situation convinced that I'm just too ugly for all of humanity to handle. It's really not nice to have your entire existence ignored.

Anyway, I totally see her point of view, too. I think it's just a matter of coming across the right person. Some people would consider this harrasment, others would not. I mean come on, people have even written guides on getting out of your social anxiety by talking to random people in public... durrp. I guess one of the rules in that situation should be "If they show extreme disinterest, back off unless you want a lawsuit".

Offline Inkling

  • S.T.U.N. Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 8056
  • Not a Squid.
    • View Profile
Re: Harassment and the Emergent Western Gender Caste System
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2014, 03:28:43 pm »
And as a woman your opinion counts more than anyone else here combined.  At least until LadyM comes by.
Probably not a Goat, either.


Offline Krakow Sam

  • Moderator
  • Dungeon Sieger
  • *****
  • Posts: 24483
  • Stern dissaproval
    • View Profile
Re: Harassment and the Emergent Western Gender Caste System
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2014, 04:27:19 am »
Ink GD isn't a woman she's a Moon Girl. Duh.

I think the whole issue of strangers asking women out on the streets is partially the fault of tv and movies.

Consider that in romantic movies the vast majority of relationships start with a completely chance meeting. The old cliché "woman drops something due to cinematic klutzyness and beef manhunk stops to help her gather her architecture papers or whatever and their eyes meet and then he asks her for coffee." Naturally this works because a) our hero Beef is one of the most handsome people in the world and his suitability as a mate is evident. b) Narrative convenience.

If you actually look at real life for a second then it becomes apparent that most relationships actually start between co-workers, people who do the same hobby or friends of friends (i.e. people who already sort of know each other).
Unfortunately some people are likely to use movies as their basis for how humans behave rather than the world around them, so they think their clumsy advances on random women in the street will be received the same way and get frustrated when they don't.


Sam is basically right, he's just cranky.

Offline Inkling

  • S.T.U.N. Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 8056
  • Not a Squid.
    • View Profile
Re: Harassment and the Emergent Western Gender Caste System
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2014, 05:42:36 pm »
What's a Moon Girl?
Probably not a Goat, either.


Offline Krakow Sam

  • Moderator
  • Dungeon Sieger
  • *****
  • Posts: 24483
  • Stern dissaproval
    • View Profile
Re: Harassment and the Emergent Western Gender Caste System
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2014, 03:38:42 am »
Sam is basically right, he's just cranky.

Offline Slinky

  • Mr. Do! Disciple
  • *****
  • Posts: 2157
  • hey there
    • View Profile
Re: Harassment and the Emergent Western Gender Caste System
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2014, 08:51:45 am »
All I know about that series is that Sokka ****ed the moon.

Offline Krakow Sam

  • Moderator
  • Dungeon Sieger
  • *****
  • Posts: 24483
  • Stern dissaproval
    • View Profile
Re: Sexism
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2014, 10:56:04 am »
Changed the topic title to something more broad and less contentious and weird.
Sam is basically right, he's just cranky.

Offline Slinky

  • Mr. Do! Disciple
  • *****
  • Posts: 2157
  • hey there
    • View Profile
Re: Sexism
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2014, 11:01:36 am »
The Patterns of Western Hemispheric Gender-based Discrimination and Prejudice Emergent In The Internet and Tangible Society of Current-Day America