Author Topic: Phonetic English Language  (Read 3266 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline PikMini

  • Scramble Skipper
  • ****
  • Posts: 683
  • o_o
    • View Profile
Re: Phonetic English Language
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2013, 03:29:50 pm »
Oh hey, relevant to my field of study!

For starters, your language uses "x" to indicate the [tʃ] affricate, and "sh" for the [ʃ] phoneme. In other words, the "ch" in "chew" is really just a "tsh." I'd suggest "tsh" instead of "x" as a transcription more faithful to the truth.

Similarly, your "j" letter represents the [dʒ] affricate and you then use "zh" to represent [ʒ] alone. Seems almost counterintuitive! How about having "j" represent the sound in "beige" and "dj" represent the sound in "jam?"

Your vowels could use some work. For example, you say "i" is the [ɪ] phoneme at the top, and then you say "i" represents the [ə] phoneme at the end. ("In" and "il) In some cases, you end up with "i" representing two different vowels in the same word. (For example, "kitten" would be spelled "kitin" despite the two "i"s representing different vowels.) Furthermore, many vowels are something called "dipthongs" which means that they're really just two vowels sound in quick succession. For example, the "i" sound in "lie" is just "a" as in "hat" followed by "ee." Try saying "aaaeee" faster and faster.

I could go on, but I think you'd be better off familiarizing yourself with the International Phonetic Alphabet!

awesome, that makes so much sense!

i knew the symbol for 'ch' was 'tʃ' but i just thought it was a group, so the t is there for a reason.  is there really a 'd' sound in 'jam' though?  my 'j' seems like a solid pronunciation without any 'd' before, if anything it is a kind of pause but i wouldn't call it 'd'

so a regular 'ng' is 'n-g' in that the 'n' sound is spoken fully, but i have trouble understanding 'ŋ', is it just 'ng' but with the 'n' kind of halfway pronounced?  by halfway i mean in the same sense as the 'il' in metal/mettle

i'm not sure dipthongs can be improved and i'm having trouble with the vowels also, also hyphenation or diacritics wouldn't be suitable for anything but i'm not sure how else to make certain sounds work

The other problem with phoneticizing the English language is dialects. How do you choose which dialect is the "correct" one? No matter what you decide, there will always be a lot of people that don't pronounce things the wag your alphabet does.

Better off creating your own language. Then you can do whatever you want!
i was going to include this in the original post but decided it would be better to let others bring it up... i believe this is the reason why it hasn't already been done, everyone pronounces words differently, so there will be many variations for the same word... but is this actually a problem?  (i think it will be interesting to see spellings of 'almond' without the 'l' because they don't actually pronounce it)

Suggestion: Use capitalization.
is it necessary?  i think lowercase is great for casual discussion, reduced eye strain since the letters are all of comparable height and weight, uppercase is more suited for graphic design/presentations

I think I'll make my own topic instead of hijacking this one. Keep an eye for it!
well at least describe it since you brought it up?
« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 03:33:33 pm by PikMini »

Offline Tesla

  • Street Fighter Champion
  • *****
  • Posts: 10617
    • View Profile
Re: Phonetic English Language
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2013, 03:48:50 pm »
awesome, that makes so much sense!

i knew the symbol for 'ch' was 'tʃ' but i just thought it was a group, so the t is there for a reason.  is there really a 'd' sound in 'jam' though?  i

so a regular 'ng' is 'n-g' in that the 'n' sound is spoken fully, but i have trouble understanding 'ŋ', is it just 'ng' but with the 'n' kind of halfway pronounced?  by halfway i mean in the same sense as the 'il' in metal/mettle

i'm not sure dipthongs can be improved and i'm having trouble with the vowels also, also hyphenation or diacritics wouldn't be suitable for anything but i'm not sure how else to make certain sounds work

The t is very much there for a reason. An affricate is basically a diphthong for consonants. For example, say the phrase "eet shay." (gibberish) Now say it ten times fast. Sounds like "eechay," right? That's because it's the same thing. :P

And yeah, there's a d in [dʒæm]. It's actually exactly the voiced equivalent of [tʃ], as [d] is the voiced equivalent of [t] and [ʒ] is the equivalent of [ʃ]. If you try the "eechay" thing with [d] and  [ʒ], you'll get "eejay."

[ŋ] is not related to [n] or [g] really, we just spell it "ng" in English, much the same way that we spell [tʃ] as "ch" despite it using neither c nor h. However, both [ŋ] and [n] are examples of nasal consonants so they sound similar. To further confuse things, it is extremely common in English to realize any occurrence of [ng] as [ŋg]. It's simply easier to say. (If you're interested, this happens a lot in every language. It's called "complementary distribution.")

The "halfway pronunciation" you refer to in "metal/mettle" is simply the vowel schwa, or [ə]. It's the vowel you make when your mouth is completely relaxed so it crops up a lot in unstressed syllables.

Regarding diphthongs, it kinda sucks, yeah. There simply aren't enough vowel characters in the English alphabet to portray all vowels without introducing some contrived system or repurposing unused letters.

i was going to include this in the original post but decided it would be better to let others bring it up... i believe this is the reason why it hasn't already been done, everyone pronounces words differently, so there will be many variations for the same word... but is this actually a problem?  (i think it will be interesting to see spellings of 'almond' without the 'l' because they don't actually pronounce it)

It kind of is a problem. I mean, sure, your orthographic reform would be nice for kids wherever you live, but when you start trying to teach it to kids on the other side of the world, your mapping of the vowels would be totally skewed. In their dialect, some words pronounced with the same vowels would be spelled with different vowels, or vice versa. Your reform would be totally for nothing.

And for the record, I pronounce the "l" in almond. :P
No way dude, you're trolling me.

Offline Slinky

  • Mr. Do! Disciple
  • *****
  • Posts: 2157
  • hey there
    • View Profile
Re: Phonetic English Language
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2013, 03:57:19 pm »
Suggestion: Use capitalization.
is it necessary?  i think lowercase is great for casual discussion, reduced eye strain since the letters are all of comparable height and weight, uppercase is more suited for graphic design/presentations

That's actually a good point. Nevermind.

Offline PikMini

  • Scramble Skipper
  • ****
  • Posts: 683
  • o_o
    • View Profile
Re: Phonetic English Language
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2013, 01:59:56 pm »
i updated the first page with the alphabet and decided on approximate sounds instead of equivalence, didn't even spell check woot

Quote
pls respond