Author Topic: I have discovered the meaning of life!  (Read 9507 times)

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Offline LadyM

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Re: I have discovered the meaning of life!
« Reply #30 on: April 16, 2012, 10:54:01 am »
Reminder:

Okay, please remember that some comments can hurt and it's really not okay to make a hurtful personal comment about a poster. (ie: calling someone stupid)

While you might think your joking and it's all in fun (and maybe it is) it can be taken the wrong way in text. Our community is not about hurting people. It makes others not willing to share or participate.

By the way, life is what you make of it, it doesn't really matter what you believe (ghosts, past lives, etc), there is no definite right or wrong, just be happy and love the life you have and be grateful that you have one.


Online Brandonazz

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Re: I have discovered the meaning of life!
« Reply #31 on: April 16, 2012, 11:10:56 am »
there is no definite right or wrong

While true, that is an ethical statement, not an empirical one.

The existence of things like ghosts are scientifically testable hypotheses. Testable hypotheses are either right or wrong.

EDIT: Stupid is a poor word choice, though. Uninformed or ignorant would be more accurate.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 11:18:07 am by Brandonazz »

Offline Krakow Sam

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Re: I have discovered the meaning of life!
« Reply #32 on: April 16, 2012, 12:16:50 pm »
there is no definite right or wrong

While true, that is an ethical statement, not an empirical one.

Not true from all perpectives. Certain moral imperatives seem to be biologically harcoded.
Sam is basically right, he's just cranky.

Online Brandonazz

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Re: I have discovered the meaning of life!
« Reply #33 on: April 16, 2012, 12:22:25 pm »
I didn't say that "ethics are based on nothing." I agreed that there is no definite right or wrong. If that word was missing, you would be correct to object.

Additionally, "biologically advantageous" does not mean "right."
« Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 12:24:48 pm by Brandonazz »

Offline Krakow Sam

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Re: I have discovered the meaning of life!
« Reply #34 on: April 16, 2012, 12:30:32 pm »
Well in that case we are agreed and I will not devour your children.
Sam is basically right, he's just cranky.

Offline Crazen

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Re: I have discovered the meaning of life!
« Reply #35 on: April 16, 2012, 01:08:10 pm »
So I find the statement,
there is no definite right or wrong
very true, in the empirical sense. Not sure about ethical.

In science, there is what we think we know ( to the best of our ability and information, so far) and what we don't know yet.
Thats why I love science, actually. It is so unsure of itself. Humility.

Of course, the metaphysical is not science, because there is no situation where evidence could be found against it. In other words, prove yourself wrong, and then I'll believe you.
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Online Brandonazz

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Re: I have discovered the meaning of life!
« Reply #36 on: April 16, 2012, 02:13:14 pm »
very true, in the empirical sense. Not sure about ethical.

You don't have any idea what empirical means, do you?

I'd hope that's the case, because if it isn't, then you don't know what right or wrong mean.

Let me rephrase what you just said to make this more obvious for you.

Quote
we use science to model observations as best we can and therefore there is no such thing as definitely correct or incorrect

Okay, then I hypothesize that the reason the atmosphere doesn't fly off into space is because it's all tangled up in the trees.
But, as you say, there is no definite emperical right or wrong, so even if experimentally disproven, this hypothesis is never incorrect, right?

Correctness is not the same as certainty. Just because we have a theory about how some phenomena works that is our best model doesn't mean that the model isn't comprised of things which are patently true or false. Gravity is an attractive force mediated by mass. This is right. Gravity is a repulsive force mediated by ham sandwiches. This is wrong. Just because we aren't certain about the how or why does not abrogate the existence of veritably true and false things.

EDIT: Sorry for being so cranky. I didn't get much sleep last night.

I will say you are right about one thing:

Of course, the metaphysical is not science, because there is no situation where evidence could be found against it.

Assuming by "the metaphysical" you mean "philosophers talking out of their asses."
« Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 02:42:25 pm by Brandonazz »

Offline martyk

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Re: I have discovered the meaning of life!
« Reply #37 on: April 16, 2012, 02:48:22 pm »
Gravity is an attractive force mediated by mass. This is right. Gravity is a repulsive force mediated by ham sandwiches.

How do you know Brandon?  I for one adhere to the school of thought that gravity is caused by invisible ham sandwich particles floating in space that push us down onto the planet.
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Online Brandonazz

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Re: I have discovered the meaning of life!
« Reply #38 on: April 16, 2012, 02:55:40 pm »
Because if you take a ham sandwich into a lab that can measure forces with high precision, it will not register a lateral force at a distance that is significant enough to account for the gravitational effects observed on Earth, extrapolating outward.

Offline PatMan33

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Re: I have discovered the meaning of life!
« Reply #39 on: April 16, 2012, 03:05:04 pm »
Hi. My name is Necro. And I am right because from my perspective, I am right.

Offline martyk

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Re: I have discovered the meaning of life!
« Reply #40 on: April 16, 2012, 03:14:38 pm »
Because if you take a ham sandwich into a lab that can measure forces with high precision, it will not register a lateral force at a distance that is significant enough to account for the gravitational effects observed on Earth, extrapolating outward.

Perhaps we don't have enough sandwiches, or precises enough instruments.  Maybe we're looking for the wrong thing.  Since you cannot disprove my theory, you cannot tell me I'm wrong for thinking that ham sandwiches are one of most important forces in the universe.
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Offline Crazen

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Re: I have discovered the meaning of life!
« Reply #41 on: April 16, 2012, 03:25:25 pm »
Thank you Martyk. In a round about way, that demonstrates what I mean. By being in complete oppositon to it, actually.


You cannot be proven wrong, so therefore you cannot be right



alright, my phrasing may have needed some work. And i'm using similar wording to describe two things, so it makes it sound like i'm contradicting myself. And I used the word empirical wrong.

also, I don't think you understood me.

Things are deffinatly wrong or right in reality, though human understanding has to remain humble sometimes, or we start stagnating. Humans have the potential to be wrong. The Way Things Actualy Are is allways right.

there are a few things you need to be within the realm of science. One is verifyable evidence and observation. The concept i'm most interested in though, is this:

If you can't disprove something, it can't be a scientific theory.

Example: nothing can move faster than the speed of light. All evidence we have right now supports this being true. If we observe something moving faster than the speed of light, it could be disproven. obviously, we have not, and I doubt we ever will, but that possibility it there, so it can be considered for scientific assesement. 



Quote
Okay, then I hypothesize that the reason the atmosphere doesn't fly off into space is because it's all tangled up in the trees.
But, as you say, there is no definite emperical right or wrong, so even if experimentally disproven, this hypothesis is never incorrect, right?

Correctness is not the same as certainty. Just because we have a theory about how some phenomena works that is our best model doesn't mean that the model isn't comprised of things which are patently true or false. Gravity is an attractive force mediated by mass. This is right. Gravity is a repulsive force mediated by ham sandwiches. This is wrong. Just because we aren't certain about the how or why does not abrogate the existence of veritably true and false things.as far as we know, trees do not hold the atmosphere to the earth. There is no evidence suggesting this is true.

Gravity is the accepted theory because it has the most evidence supporting it and because it could be proven wrong. So far, it has not been.

That sandwiches control gravity, I'm not sure that there is a way to disprove that, because one could allways say they do so in a way we cannot detect. That bares it from being science. also, gravity existed before ham, as far as we know.


I just realized: "I can't prove you wrong so therefore you are wrong" idea could be taken way out of context. What I mean't by that is that there is potential way to be wrong. Gravity is true as far as we know. General relativity is true as far as we know. But both could hypotheticaly be found incorrect. They wont be though, as far as I know.

As for ghosts, There is no way to disprove their existance, So they are not of science.
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Online Brandonazz

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Re: I have discovered the meaning of life!
« Reply #42 on: April 16, 2012, 03:34:55 pm »
alright, my phrasing may have needed some work. And i'm using similar wording to describe two things, so it makes it sound like i'm contradicting myself. And I used the word empirical wrong.

Things are deffinatly wrong or right in reality...

I accept your concession. I'm glad you learned something today.

Gravity is the accepted theory because it has the most evidence supporting it and because it could be proven wrong. So far, it has not been.

I'm not talking about the theory. I'm talking about the fact that there is some force corresponding to mass we call gravity. This is a fact.
There is no force corresponding to ham sandwiches.

Also:

Quote
If you can't disprove something, it can't be a scientific theory.

You are confusing 'theory' and 'hypothesis.'
Which is weird, because they're not even spelled similarly.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 03:43:20 pm by Brandonazz »

Offline Crazen

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Re: I have discovered the meaning of life!
« Reply #43 on: April 16, 2012, 04:23:21 pm »
Actually, I meant both. My word choice is really terrible today.
 
I'm not talking about the theory. I'm talking about the fact that there is some force corresponding to mass we call gravity. This is a fact.
That is the theory. But as you say if it is reality, then it is, in fact, fact

And I was talking about the theory. So I think we are actually agreeing here, just we are also stressing different things that we find important and sound similar to eachother.

your emphasising that reality is a certain way and this is fact. I agree with this.
I'm emphasising that people can be wrong about how reality is. I think we can also agree on this.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 05:47:46 pm by Crazen »
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Offline martyk

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Re: I have discovered the meaning of life!
« Reply #44 on: April 16, 2012, 04:33:50 pm »
Also, gravity existed before ham, as far as we know.

Ah the age old philosophical question.  Which came first, gravity or ham sandwiches?
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