Author Topic: A Tale of Civilizations II - OOC  (Read 21651 times)

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Offline Huckbuck

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A Tale of Civilizations II - OOC
« on: March 19, 2011, 11:25:35 am »


Some of you might remember my old community game A Tale of Civilizations. I never managed to make a game just as good since then, and I have often been thinking about what made AToC special. It was however a growing burden as the systems I had come up with didn't cope with an increasing population in the tribes, it was to complicated to work in the long run. I have long wanted to do a game similar to AToC, and now I think I have come up with a recipe that is not one of disaster.





How does it play?



The new rules mean less work for me, less trying to figure out how to make the cavemen accidentally discover technology for you, and hopefully more fun for all. I will here try to explain the basic rules, so please go on and read.


Just like in the first AToC A Tale of Civilization II is about controlling a civilization through the ruling royal family. This aspect is greatly inspired by Rome: Total War; you have your king and queen and their sons and daughters who have different traits and character. This part is very similar to before, though family members that have not come of age will not be controlled. You also have your cities and regions displayed in stats just like in AToC (though I will not make maps of your cities. This is up to you if you desire this).

The biggest difference from the first game is how you play, how you control your civ. Instead of sending me a PM with things individuals should do there is a simplified system that I will describe later. You post your actions in the thread, with the exceptions of secret actions such as spies actions. This is largely an RP meaning that while you should try to succeed the most important part is to create a civilization with character that you can enjoy playing as. AToC is much more free in the way that you can decide over most things that are not decisive for the raw "stats" of your civilization. For example if you have researched so that you can build structures out of clay and straw you can make a picture or write an RP text of how your houses are designed or built, just as long as it makes sense. This means that I will not draw countless of images for every update, its more like I give the data and you interpret it the way you want. Continuing on this line you no longer need to invent every single tool that you want to use separately, rather you research levels of certain types of tech. If you have level 1 Weapon- and toolmaking I may limit you to simple sharp rocks, while level 2 would allow giving the sharp rocks handles and so forth.


Example:

A random event occurs in your city. I tell you: A hurricane sweeps in over City A! It destroys 5 houses and results in the death of 12 citizens.

You might decide to detail this event in an RP post, and as long as it contains the hurricane, 5 houses are destroyed, and 12 people die you are free to turn it into whatever you want.



I hope you understand what I am getting at here. Basically this is an RP with rules and mechanics to make it more rewarding and unpredictable. Now, let's continue on to how you make your actions. At the beginning of each month each player is awarded with Work Points based on population, obedience of the people, health of the people, mindset of the people, climate and anything else that could factor in on the productivity of his Civ. He then needs to organize the productivity by "spending" WP on different activities.

Example:

Civ A has got 5500 inhabitants. 500 of these are warriors, meaning their time is taken up by training and patrolling. That leaves 5000. 3700 of these are in a suitable age for labor. The discontent is at 20% and unhealthiness is at 15%. 3700 * 0.8 * 0.85 = 2516 potential WP

The organization of my Civ is messy, and my tech level is not that high, so total WP is reduced to a mere 1200.  I then spend them in the following way:

Expansion 100 WP
Construction [Temple] 100 WP
Maintenance 100 WP
Food production: 850 WP
Health care 25 WP
Culture 10 WP
Research [Agriculture] 15 WP

850 WP food production for 5000 inhabitants will most surely lead to starvation. The main problem here is the inefficiency, with my total WP being only 47.7% of my potential WP. In a situation like this it might also be wise to cut down on the expansion and construction, 200 WP invested in that might be a bit much. The starvation the coming month will probably lead to more discontent which could turn into a downward spiral.

A big part of the game is this balance where you might get the advantage over the other players by micromanaging well.


The research system is another vital feature for your control over your civ. Technologies are grouped in techs such as "Stone lore" and "Pottery". These take different amounts of Tech Points to "discover". One TP is commonly equal to 10 WP, there are different ways to make research more or less efficient though. Not only can a tech be researched for a certain amount of TP, if I have already discovered a tech I can upgrade it by researching it again for the same amount of TP. The level cap of techs differ and are "hidden", meaning you as players do not know them until you have reached the highest level of the tech. One important restriction to remember is that a tech can never have a level twice as high or greater than any of its parent skills, including parent skills of parent skills and so on.

Example:

Civ A has recently researched stone block-making for 50 TP. As they have only researched it once it is currently at level 1. Stone block-making level 1 allows them to make crude stone blocks which can be quite helpful for building. I want to build a big palace for myself though, so the crude level 1 blocks will not allow for a big and stable structure. I therefor decide to research at least another level of stone block-making.

After spending WPs on the most necessary stuff I have 150 left to invest in research. Normally this would give me 15/50 TP for level 2, but Civ A has a very strict religion that while helps keeping the people in check hinders research due to conservatism. The WP-TP rate is therefor at 15, meaning I only get 10 potential TP this month. The parent techs for stone block-making (stone lore, mining, wood lore, logging, weapon- and toolmaking) are at high levels though so this gives a +3 TP bonus resulting in a total 13 TP.


Tech can be traded between civilizations, giving potential enemies means to overpower you is something to be careful with though. Close relationship where citizens are allowed to enter the other civs lands will also eventually lead to the tech spreading, meaning a simple trade of wheat for fish might lead to your trade partner learning how to construct the wheel. This is an important thing to consider. It is also possible to send spies to learn the tech of others. This is one of the actions I allow to be secret, meaning it can be done in a PM to me, so that the other player does not know about the spy unless his cover is blown.

Organization is something you control separately from the WP system. It doesn't directly cost you anything to order the introduction of a caste system for example, but it might not happen fully in one turn. If its enforcement is successful at all that is. You also control your troops separately, something that ties in with how the map works. The map plays a more important role in AToC II than it did in AToC.


Example picture

As you see the map is divided into an irregular grid. This is to simplify control of land and movement of military and other units. The grid is supposed to represent natural regions based on the landscape and one region is about 3000 km^2. You can move forces between these regions and perform whatever actions that would make sense, such as building a fort or pillaging a village. This part of the game is quite flexible as how you organize your military is up to you.  It is therefor important to remember that the region marked as your land is not all populated by your people, rather their population is concentrated in a small area. The rest encompass land they might hunt in or at least know of and is not controlled by anyone else. The size of these regions also mean that you are not limited to one city or town in each region, even though I will keep stats like population by region, you are free to say all live in one large city or scattered in small villages whichever you prefer, as it does not directly affect the gameplay.

Another point I want to add regarding the map is that the brown areas aren't just plains or anything like that, there are still forests in these areas unless my description of an area says otherwise. The green parts on the map however are parts where there pretty much is only forest, and not the passable type neither.



As you can see it works quite different from the old AToC, and my hope is for this to enable more players and faster progression. Are you interested in participating? The game has started but you can still join! To do this you make a post in this thread with the following information:




Starting out




  • Name of Civilization      (Ex: Rome)
  • Name of People          (Ex: Romans)
  • Adjective                   (Ex Roman)

  • Names and age of family members. You get 500 Age Points that you get to "buy" members for just like in my old game Cunae. Everyone up to the age of 50 is worth 50+(their age) in points, but every year above 50 are subtracted.

    Examples of this to clarify:

    Undatarian, 16 years old. (66 points, 50 + 16)

    Antonius, 75 years old. (75 points, 50 + 50 - 25)

    Herataras 50 years old. (100 points, 50 + 50)

NOTE: Do not write bios for your characters yet, wait until you have been accepted and I have sent you the game sheets with stats and attributes.



  • Starting Technology





    Click picture for larger size

    You get 200 TP to buy your starting Technology. Above you see the starting tech tree. I will build on to this as we move forward, though I think this will do for quite some time. You are free to buy any level of any tech you have access to (see the arrows). The blue technologies are structures, and the green techs are "epics". The dashed arrows are parent skills that are not required, but still add parent bonus.

    Example:

    Herb lore 1: 10 TP
    Fibremaking 1: 10 TP
    Weaving 1: 25 TP
    Thatching 1: 15 TP
    Soil lore 1: 10 TP
    Pottery 1: 25 TP
    Wood lore 1: 10 TP
    Wood lore 2: 10 TP
    Firemaking 1: 10 TP
    Herbalism 1: 30 TP
    Stone lore 1: 15 TP
    Weapon- and toolmaking 1: 25 TP

    Total: 195 TP

    How you chose these techs is very important as researching is not very fast.

NOTE: The one exception to the rule of needing parent skills to chose a technology is Weapon- and toolmaking. This tech only needs one of its parents researched.




That concludes all the info you MUST include for your application to be valid. You can also request certain features for your characters and your civilization and I will consider them when creating the stat sheets. (This includes if you want your civilization to be located in a specific type of environment.)




Player list


Player name                         Civilization name

Badger Man 22                                 Reigia

Kenotai                                           Iefhuat

Josasa                                           Amorusk

Munchkin5                                   Kestara Olek

Hydromancerx                                Solutrea
« Last Edit: May 30, 2011, 03:12:40 pm by Huckbuck »


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Offline Hydromancerx

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Re: A Tale of Civilizations II - Sign-ups and planning!
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2011, 05:02:20 pm »
Interesting tech tree. I though you might like to see my tech tree for C2C (Cavemen to Cosmos). Note that it is much more extensive and they have cost values too (since it s for Civ4).

C2C Tech Tree Spreadsheet (Require Open Office to Read)
Download Here

While the most recent C2C has not been posted yet with all the new Galactic Era techs, you can at least see the prehistoric ones here.

Anyways if its going to be largely RP then i probably will not participate, but I though i would at least try to share my research and info since I have spend many months on it for my Civ4 mod and it might save you some time and effort. The other good part is there are buildings and units linked to these techs too.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2011, 05:06:56 pm by Hydromancerx »

Offline Huckbuck

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Re: A Tale of Civilizations II - Sign-ups and planning!
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2011, 05:07:03 pm »
It is as much an RP as you want it to be. AToC 1 was also largely an RP, at least in my eyes. The difference now is that you don't HAVE to RP to progress.

EDIT: And damn thats a huge tech tree! It might prove useful, though I intentionally left out things such as nomadic lifestyle as that is up to the player trying to enforce, and things such as dyes as it isn't largely affective and would mostly have an RP factor. Those are the things players themselves can come up with, within reasonable limits of course.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2011, 05:10:13 pm by Huckbuck »
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Offline Hydromancerx

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Re: A Tale of Civilizations II - Sign-ups and planning!
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2011, 06:01:43 pm »
Well some of what was in AToC 1 inspired me to include in C2C when planning out the Prehistoric Era. What I have found is that trying to simulate the vast complexity of civilization really takes computer help. Because I know how much work builds up with your trying to do these games and computers allow you at least lighten the load by having them do some of the work for you. And even then you are still limited by the game. Not to mention we are adding new features all the time so its an ever evolving and expanding model for a civilization game. If I ever get it finished I would really like to try it out as a forum game like this.

As for my tech tree and techs its largely based upon Civ4 features. Such as they dyes is a resource in the game so it was put in as a tech. Or for instance gathering reveals plant based resources while scavenging reveals animal based resources. Then later techs enable them such as hunting and livestock domestication for the animals ones and agriculture for the plant ones. All i can say its really hard to sum up here and you would have to play the game to understand it all.

At any rate just trying to give you some inspiration for this since you games have inspired me.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2011, 06:06:39 pm by Hydromancerx »

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Re: A Tale of Civilizations II - Sign-ups and planning!
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2011, 01:43:19 pm »
I'd like to apply to join this.

- Reigia
- Reigians
- Reigian

Family: 500/500
- F'Lipo Age 35 (50+35=85)(Male)(Mate of Wrin)
- Wrin Age 26 (50+26=76)(Female)(Mate of F'Lipo)
- Hett Age 65 (50+50-15=85)(Female)(Mother of Wrin)
- Krith Age 71 (50+50-21=65)(Male)(Father of Wrin)
- Grin Age 13 (50+13=63)(Male)(Son of F'Lipo and Wrin)
- Opek Age 24 (50+24=74)(Male)(Second mate of Wrin)
- Witt Age 16 (50+16=66)(Female)(Daughter of Wrin and Opek)

Tech: 200/200
- Animal Lore 1: 10
- Domestication 1: 80
- Stone Lore 1: 15
- Weapon and Tool Making 1: 25
- Wood Lore 1: 10
- Logging 1: 25
- Canoe Making 1: 35
« Last Edit: March 22, 2011, 11:21:31 am by Badger Man 22 »
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Offline Huckbuck

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Re: A Tale of Civilizations II - Sign-ups and planning!
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2011, 02:15:30 pm »
Glad to finally see someone interested in playing! :) You got the family part right, and it looks good. You did not buy starting tech though. Please add that to your post.
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Offline Kenotai

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Re: A Tale of Civilizations II - Sign-ups and planning!
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2011, 02:38:33 pm »
* Name of Civilization - Iefhuat
* Name of People - Iefhuatng
* Adjective - Iefhuatti

* (470/500)
   - Uekhuek Age 45 (50+45=95) Wife of Aangfux
   - Aangfux Age 42 (50+42=92) Husband of Uekhuek
   - Miapuuf Age 17 (50+17=67) Son of Aangfux and Uekhuek
   - Ngauair Age 13 (50+13=63) Son of Aangfux and Uekhuek
   - Afap Age 76 (50+50-26=74) Father of Aangfux
   - Ekeh Age 71 (50+50-21=79) Father of Uekhuek
* Tech (195/200)
Soil Lore (10)
Animal Lore (10)
Wood Lore (10)
Herb Lore (10)
Pottery (25)
Fishing (15)
Thatching (15)
Weaving (25)
Fibermaking (10)
Raftmaking (15)
Hide Structures (15)
Branch Structures (10)
Clay Structures (25)
« Last Edit: March 22, 2011, 03:07:50 pm by Kenotai »
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Offline Huckbuck

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Re: A Tale of Civilizations II - Sign-ups and planning!
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2011, 03:00:18 pm »
Well it goes like this:

The base technologies are the lores. This can be seen by how no arrows point toward them. Every other technology have arrows pointing towards them. These show what are required for those skills to be bought / researched. Take Fibremaking for example: it requires Herb lore, and it is the parent tech of Weaving and Ropemaking.
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Offline Kenotai

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Re: A Tale of Civilizations II - Sign-ups and planning!
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2011, 03:02:28 pm »
Also, are some of those arrows going through the blocks? It looks like they are because no arrow ends, but I want to be sure.
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Offline Cyst

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Re: A Tale of Civilizations II - Sign-ups and planning!
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2011, 03:36:14 pm »
Tech is done, But I will add more to the family later on. Mainly cause I only used half my points.
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Offline Hydromancerx

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Re: A Tale of Civilizations II - Sign-ups and planning!
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2011, 04:04:46 pm »
It is as much an RP as you want it to be. AToC 1 was also largely an RP, at least in my eyes. The difference now is that you don't HAVE to RP to progress.

EDIT: And damn thats a huge tech tree! It might prove useful, though I intentionally left out things such as nomadic lifestyle as that is up to the player trying to enforce, and things such as dyes as it isn't largely affective and would mostly have an RP factor. Those are the things players themselves can come up with, within reasonable limits of course.

The new C2C came out today. If you wanted to try it out. You can get it here.

Offline Flisch

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Re: A Tale of Civilizations II - Sign-ups and planning!
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2011, 04:21:47 pm »
C2C Tech Tree Spreadsheet (Require Open Office to Read)
Download Here
I like it, but I can't figure out which technology leads to which. D:

(I might steal some ideas for my Cyto tech tree. .)
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Offline Huckbuck

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Re: A Tale of Civilizations II - Sign-ups and planning!
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2011, 05:15:10 am »
Also, are some of those arrows going through the blocks? It looks like they are because no arrow ends, but I want to be sure.

Yea, due to the complex relations between techs some arrows are long and go "behind" other blocks. If you find it hard to see which arrows go where I can try to make it easier by maybe making it bigger.

@Flisch: Well you won't be needing it for another 10 years. :P


EDIT: I tried to sort the tech tree out so that the arrows do not cross other techs. I hope it is a bit easier to figure out now. I also figured I'd remove the requirement of the fishing tech for canoemaking and raftmaking as there can be other incentives to make boats than to fish.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2011, 02:08:00 pm by Huckbuck »
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Re: A Tale of Civilizations II - Sign-ups and planning!
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2011, 09:27:38 pm »
Name of Civilization: Amorusk
Name of People: Amorcian
Adjective: Amorcian

Shamir Family (500/?)
Anesh - Father (Leader)
43 years old (93 points, 50 + 43)
Kala - Mother
39 years old (89 points, 50 + 39)
-----
Sukla - Son
20 years old (70 points, 50 + 20)
Resha - Daughter-in-Law
18 years old (68 points, 50 + 18)
~ - Granddaughter
1 year old (51 points, 50 + 1)
-----
Kelem - Daughter
17 years old (67 points, 50 + 17)
Nidok - Son
12 years old (62 points, 50 + 12)

Acquired Techs (200/200)
  • Wood Lore 1 (10)
  • Animal Lore 1 (10)
  • Herb Lore 1 (10)
  • Fibremaking 1 (10)
  • Fishing 1 (15)
  • Bowmaking 1 (20)
  • Logging 1 (25)
  • Weapon and Tool Making 1 (25)
  • Plank Making 1 (35)
  • Wood Structures 1 (40)

Preferences
I was hoping to have my civilization start somewhere along the coast in a temperate forest area (or perhaps even colder). Even mountainous terrain would be fine with me.

As for the family, I would like for the father (Anesh) to be a strict and iron-fisted leader (probably not too bright) while the mother (Kala) is kind-hearted and warm. As for the first son (Sukla), it would be cool to have him a natural leader and fighter (kinda taking after his father), whereas the younger son (Nidok) would be temperamental and passionate. For the daughter (Kelem) I would like her to be industrious and intelligent (as in the smartest of the family).
« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 12:11:21 pm by Josasa »

Offline Huckbuck

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Re: A Tale of Civilizations II - Sign-ups and planning!
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2011, 06:26:37 am »
Glad to see you joining Jos, and its interesting that your tech varies quite a lot from Badgers.


I have been thinking however, I might reduce the amount of age points you get to spend. I feel that, looking at how many family members Badger has with only 600 points spent it is to much with 1000 points. What would you guys say about lowering it to maybe 600 - 700?
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