Topic: The Hedgehog Topic

[PatMan33]

To be honest, the old sonic games were never as good as the competition

When Earthbound came out it wasn't as good as the competition, for example Chrono Trigger. That didn't make it a terrible game though. In fact is has one of the largest cult followings for a Nintendo game ever (but NoA still won't release Mother 3 ).

My point is, don't compare games to the competition, just focus on the game itself.

Sam didn't say it was a terrible game though. He just said that it didn't stand up to the competition. And when you're talking about Sonic you have to mention the competition. Were it not for the competition Sonic would have never seen the light of day. He was made in order to combat Mario. The topic of Sonic (and Mario to a lesser extent) are hopelessly intertwined with one another. You can't talk about one without bringing up the other; therefore, the competition is a wholly valid point to discuss

[/lurk]

As for the sonic games, I do like a few of the odd ones (like spinball) but for the most part, I can't see how making a 2D sonic would survive in this tech-heavy industry.  If they made it with 3d models like the one shown in Brawl, maybe.  However, I've personally always wanted one that stuck to SATam.  I don't think Sal has ever appeared in a single sonic game.

Because Sonic needs more stupid animal friends.

Also the other Sonic cartoon was better anyway.

[PatMan33]

And also, 2D is back and living it up! They've been churning out 2D and 2.5D games like crazy over the last year or so. I'm loving it!

[Snork]

I stopped giving a crap about sonic when I was 10.

[IamMe]

To be honest, the old sonic games were never as good as the competition

When Earthbound came out it wasn't as good as the competition, for example Chrono Trigger. That didn't make it a terrible game though. In fact is has one of the largest cult followings for a Nintendo game ever (but NoA still won't release Mother 3 ).

My point is, don't compare games to the competition, just focus on the game itself.

Sam didn't say it was a terrible game though. He just said that it didn't stand up to the competition. And when you're talking about Sonic you have to mention the competition. Were it not for the competition Sonic would have never seen the light of day. He was made in order to combat Mario. The topic of Sonic (and Mario to a lesser extent) are hopelessly intertwined with one another. You can't talk about one without bringing up the other; therefore, the competition is a wholly valid point to discuss

Okay

but

Sonic games (no, all games) are better when you just look at the game itself and not look at how it compares to other games. Oblivion is a fun game on it's own but it's only "meh" when compared with Morrowind, etc.

[PatMan33]

Hah, totally wrong, dude. Thinking of Morrowind makes me smile because I know I can go play Oblivion and have more fun.

Either way though, this is an industry and a business and so comparison to the competition is vital. And the games that can stand on their own without comparison? Good for them, they're the big winners at the end of the day (even if they pull a Psychonauts and don't sell). Though... that brings up another point. So a game is great. Cool! But it didn't sell so does that mean it is a failure?

I'm not saying this is my own belief, but I think it is an interesting discussion topic.

[Yokto]

As it is a industry that is out to make money if it does not sell then is a failure. From the publishers view. Pretty much anyone who have played Psychonauts will however call it a great game. Inversely a game can be crap in every aspects but still sell good due to marking or some other factor. For the industry this is considered a good game even if the players would never agree. Of course the problem is that if you produce games like that the IP will be pretty much worthless (and might reflect badly on the company it self) so that future earnings might get hurt. Still a few companies Biz Mod is to make cheap crappy games and turn a profit though marking and other tricks.

But sometimes a game can be a economic failure but still turn in to a gem in the industry. If a game gets a great cult status then the IP gains value even if the original title never made any big money. It does not happen that often but lucky is great games that get this treatment. Sonic brand live on this partly because is the old games people remember. That is why they have manage to release a bunch of bad games and still been able to sell it. But you can only push it so far.

Under the Mario brand both good and bad games have been released. But one big difference is that unlike Sonic Mario games have never had a long streak of bad games. There have pretty much always been a good game out there to outshine the bad ones. Also is often the spin-offs that are considered bad rather then the "main series".


Personally i think that Morrowind was better then Oblivion. But that is a other topic.

[IamMe]

Hah, totally wrong, dude. Thinking of Morrowind makes me smile because I know I can go play Oblivion and have more fun.

Either way though, this is an industry and a business and so comparison to the competition is vital. And the games that can stand on their own without comparison? Good for them, they're the big winners at the end of the day (even if they pull a Psychonauts and don't sell). Though... that brings up another point. So a game is great. Cool! But it didn't sell so does that mean it is a failure?

I'm not saying this is my own belief, but I think it is an interesting discussion topic.

I actually haven't played Morrowind, I'm just going off of what I've heard 'round the internets.

Also I wasn't talking about if it sells or not, I was just saying it can still be fun. ):

[Snork]

Hah, totally wrong, dude. Thinking of Morrowind makes me smile because I know I can go play Oblivion and have more fun.

Sir, please read this:
http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1027071
Yes, Oblivion is FAR more fun than MW, but as an RPG (I'm only comparing the vanilla games btw) Morrowind is the superior game.

[PatMan33]

Yes, Oblivion is FAR more fun than MW, but as an RPG (I'm only comparing the vanilla games btw) Morrowind is the superior game.

And that goes back to my previous point. If a game is great and sells poorly, is it a success?

If a game is "superior" but not as fun as another, is it better?

[eropS]

If a tree falls in the middle of a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

[IamMe]

Only on Wednesdays.

[Skyward]

Hah, totally wrong, dude. Thinking of Morrowind makes me smile because I know I can go play Oblivion and have more fun.

Sir, please read this:
http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1027071
Yes, Oblivion is FAR more fun than MW, but as an RPG (I'm only comparing the vanilla games btw) Morrowind is the superior game.

Actually, I found Morrowind (vanilla) to be just as, if not more fun.

But thats just me.

[Yokto]

Yeah i think is about personal taste. I had a lot more fun with Morrowind then Oblivion. But then again i had more fun with Daggerfall then Morrowind.

But the topic is about the Hedgehog and not TES. Lets go back to that. Hay do you all have any ideas how to capitalized on the speed factor in new interesting ways?

[Inkling]

I haven't played a new Sonic game in a long, long time.  What has been broken, and what needs fixing?

Other than that game where they had Emo Sonic with guns.  I knew that was a terrible idea from the start.