Author Topic: The Hedgehog Topic  (Read 24096 times)

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Offline PatMan33

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Re: The Hedgehog Topic
« Reply #60 on: February 04, 2010, 03:09:51 pm »
Sonic 3 & Knuckles was one of the best games of the 16-bit era and the best Sonic game.

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Re: The Hedgehog Topic
« Reply #61 on: February 04, 2010, 04:33:43 pm »
So Pat, do you think this is like NSMB, but with Sonic?

I think it's going to be. I think it's time other third party companies start copying Nintendo's methods on their franchises.

Offline dndfreak

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Re: The Hedgehog Topic
« Reply #62 on: February 04, 2010, 06:46:53 pm »
So Pat, do you think this is like NSMB, but with Sonic?


See, that's where you're wrong.  It would be if you took out the co-op that made NSMB interesting and then you charge for every stage instead of just buying the game outright.  Even if the game DOES return to it's roots, their market strategy will give the thing a pathetically low return.  lots of people will buy the first because they want to see if SEGA's claims are legit for themselves.  Even if it does, half of them at the most will buy the second one and the lower profit margin for downloadable games means that they won't get farther than an episode three if that.  The fact is that the majority of the recipients for sonic games is 12 year old kids that get them from their parents at christmas, but the parents aren't going to buy downloadable content.  They'll buy a game that their kid can actually open, most likely some Mario products.  If this is really the return of Sonic's glory days, then it should be done right.

Offline eropS

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Re: The Hedgehog Topic
« Reply #63 on: February 04, 2010, 06:50:39 pm »
Hm yes, the 17 year old financial wizard who happens to be hip with current market trends and in the know with how families and mothers buy their children games. And the fact that Sonic is targeted at 12 year olds only, despite the fact over 50% of gamers are over 18, and that Sonic is a hard ass game. Yes Dnd, please enlighten us more at the flaws of this strategy.

...Lower profit margin for Downloadable games? I mean with the no CD and production cost, no shipping, and no middle man such as a retailer, just paying Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony (which they have to do anyway), of course the margin is smaller.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2010, 06:53:09 pm by eropS »
No, no, he did. In the everything else section, at least. Officially, this makes him king.

gec05

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Re: The Hedgehog Topic
« Reply #64 on: February 04, 2010, 06:53:03 pm »
Because clearly Nintendo has failed at bringing back the old school Mario with the two NSMB games, poor sales and all. ;)

Offline GroxGlitch

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Re: The Hedgehog Topic
« Reply #65 on: February 04, 2010, 07:08:39 pm »
Eh, If they keep games making games like Sonic Unleashed, I think they really need to work on their final bosses. At least in my opinion, Dark Gaia Phase 2 was just anti-climatic. There was nothing about it that made it really all that memorable. It was just "collect rings and charge at the eyes while dodging metorites." And some his attacks were just cheap, as I couldn't figure out how to avoid them, such as that all 6 arms slash. To be honest, sence Sonic Adventure 2, all the Super Sonic bosses were cheasy remakes of each other. And, for example, in Sonic Heroes, working through all 4 teams to get that stupid little Metal Overlord battle pissed me, because for all the work I put in, I was hoping for a decent boss battle. But NOOOOO!  :P
If you can't tell, I like fighting bosses.  :D
Anyway, I'm done ranting.

Offline Gauphastus

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Re: The Hedgehog Topic
« Reply #66 on: February 04, 2010, 07:16:34 pm »
I've read a lot of comments about this announcement.
It's looks to be about the same split as there was with the last couple of games, maybe a little less.
Still, that's a lot of excited people. I'm still surprised there's demand for anything here after all the bad times.

That's one die-hard and dedicated fanbase.
"Ma all the gods of furious strong be with you as you crunch opposents, and live like a windrammer as you f**k."
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gec05

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Re: The Hedgehog Topic
« Reply #67 on: February 04, 2010, 07:17:25 pm »
Also, I'd like to see Hyper Sonic and the Death Egg again.

Offline GroxGlitch

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Re: The Hedgehog Topic
« Reply #68 on: February 04, 2010, 07:24:23 pm »
Also, I'd like to see Hyper Sonic and the Death Egg again.
Yeah, I was wondering what happened to Hyper Sonic.... and the Death Egg? That would be awesome in the new 3D graphics.
[Thought] If they wanted an interesting final battle for that, they could have it start against Eggman/Robotnik as Super Sonic, then you have to attack the Death Egg itself as Hyper Sonic to keep it from burning up in the atmosphere. [/Thought]
At least, I think that would be a cool final battle.

Offline dndfreak

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Re: The Hedgehog Topic
« Reply #69 on: February 04, 2010, 07:29:45 pm »
Sonic is a hard ass game.

Of all the stupid crap you just said, I find this one the funniest.  Sonic is a freaking cakewalk, it always has been.  Even in the Genesis days, it was easy compared to the other titles out at the time like Legend of Zelda, MegaMan, Contra, Ninja Gaiden or the like.  It may be harder by today's standards, but that's just because today's games are one hell of a lot more forgiving.

Look, I know that the majority of gamers are over 18 but I also know that the majority of sonic fans are under 18.  I know that this sonic game in particular won't be targeted at minors, but I also know that the majority of those who would purchase a sonic game are those under 18 who will find it significantly harder to acquire.  I also know that that shipping and such raise the cost to produce the game, but I also know that the company earns one hell of a lot more off a boxed game than three to five bucks, which is the most Sega will earn per download considering that most people pay ten bucks for a FULL game on DLC, if that.

The problem, however, doesn't extend solely from the numbers themselves.  The problem will be the comparison.  A huge number of people will download episode I for the sole purpose of trying it out, seeing if it'll be what SEGA promised.  Especially thanks to the presumably low cost compared to the usual 50 dollar title, people will try it themselves instead of going to reviews.  This will bolster the confidence of the Sonic team, and they'll put out the second one as quickly as possible.  The problem is that they won't get nearly enough sales to meet their expectations.  They'll get a few thousand from the die hard fans that'll buy anything with sonic in the name, then a few people who will buy anything that's on their DLC.  After that, one of two things will happen.  Either A.- the majority of those who tried it liked it, in which case probably a third at the most will pay to continue their play.  The rest will either think it's not worth the cash for another half hour of gameplay or they won't even realize that it was released, since DLC isn't exactly the subject of all the publicity.  The alternative is B.- the majority that tried the first game believed strongly that it didn't live up to expectations and even less of them paid for episode II.

The point is, no matter how much of a profit is made SEGA will quickly see that they won't earn as much as they planned and Needlemouse will be cancelled, episode III never to see the light of day.  Either that or they keep trudging on, produce Episode III and watch it crash and burn, ultimately turning up as a loss and possibly pushing SEGA into bankruptcy.  The thing is, even if a Sonic game fails in the hardcore market all the twelve year olds have forced their parents to buy the crap for birthdays and holidays so that the games will still turn up a profit.  Now that the adolescent nest egg is gone, SEGA is on it's last legs and unless this game is perfect to the point that everyone who touches the controller instantly falls in love with it then SEGA will fall.  Chances are, Sonic will be bought by either Nintendo or Disney and the days of classic Sonic titles will never be seen again.  I shudder to think what Disney would do with the IP.

Also,
Because clearly Nintendo has failed at bringing back the old school Mario with the two NSMB games, poor sales and all. ;)

Three things are different between this and NSMB:

1. NSMBW is a boxed game, meaning they have a solid revenue from adolescents.
2. NSMBW is a full game, not only a handful of levels.
3. NSMBW's biggest appeal is the Co-op play, not it's "blast to the past".  Sonic IV doesn't have that.  If anything, there MIGHT be the time attack VS mode we saw in the Sonic Adventure games on the GBA.

Offline GroxGlitch

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Re: The Hedgehog Topic
« Reply #70 on: February 04, 2010, 07:34:26 pm »
Sonic is a hard ass game.

Of all the stupid crap you just said, I find this one the funniest.  Sonic is a freaking cakewalk, it always has been.  Even in the Genesis days, it was easy compared to the other titles out at the time like Legend of Zelda, MegaMan, Contra, Ninja Gaiden or the like.  It may be harder by today's standards, but that's just because today's games are one hell of a lot more forgiving.

Look, I know that the majority of gamers are over 18 but I also know that the majority of sonic fans are under 18.  I know that this sonic game in particular won't be targeted at minors, but I also know that the majority of those who would purchase a sonic game are those under 18 who will find it significantly harder to acquire.  I also know that that shipping and such raise the cost to produce the game, but I also know that the company earns one hell of a lot more off a boxed game than three to five bucks, which is the most Sega will earn per download considering that most people pay ten bucks for a FULL game on DLC, if that.

The problem, however, doesn't extend solely from the numbers themselves.  The problem will be the comparison.  A huge number of people will download episode I for the sole purpose of trying it out, seeing if it'll be what SEGA promised.  Especially thanks to the presumably low cost compared to the usual 50 dollar title, people will try it themselves instead of going to reviews.  This will bolster the confidence of the Sonic team, and they'll put out the second one as quickly as possible.  The problem is that they won't get nearly enough sales to meet their expectations.  They'll get a few thousand from the die hard fans that'll buy anything with sonic in the name, then a few people who will buy anything that's on their DLC.  After that, one of two things will happen.  Either A.- the majority of those who tried it liked it, in which case probably a third at the most will pay to continue their play.  The rest will either think it's not worth the cash for another half hour of gameplay or they won't even realize that it was released, since DLC isn't exactly the subject of all the publicity.  The alternative is B.- the majority that tried the first game believed strongly that it didn't live up to expectations and even less of them paid for episode II.

The point is, no matter how much of a profit is made SEGA will quickly see that they won't earn as much as they planned and Needlemouse will be cancelled, episode III never to see the light of day.  Either that or they keep trudging on, produce Episode III and watch it crash and burn, ultimately turning up as a loss and possibly pushing SEGA into bankruptcy.  The thing is, even if a Sonic game fails in the hardcore market all the twelve year olds have forced their parents to buy the crap for birthdays and holidays so that the games will still turn up a profit.  Now that the adolescent nest egg is gone, SEGA is on it's last legs and unless this game is perfect to the point that everyone who touches the controller instantly falls in love with it then SEGA will fall.  Chances are, Sonic will be bought by either Nintendo or Disney and the days of classic Sonic titles will never be seen again.  I shudder to think what Disney would do with the IP.

Also,
Because clearly Nintendo has failed at bringing back the old school Mario with the two NSMB games, poor sales and all. ;)

Three things are different between this and NSMB:

1. NSMBW is a boxed game, meaning they have a solid revenue from adolescents.
2. NSMBW is a full game, not only a handful of levels.
3. NSMBW's biggest appeal is the Co-op play, not it's "blast to the past".  Sonic IV doesn't have that.  If anything, there MIGHT be the time attack VS mode we saw in the Sonic Adventure games on the GBA.
Oh....my god......disney doing Sonic would spell the end for our little "prick" of a hero....

Offline PatMan33

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Re: The Hedgehog Topic
« Reply #71 on: February 04, 2010, 07:37:20 pm »
So Pat, do you think this is like NSMB, but with Sonic?

Oh my god I hope so! :D


**EDIT**
By the way, dnd, Gec is talking about New Super Mario Bros., not New Super Mario Bros. Wii. Or at least he was.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2010, 07:58:44 pm by PatMan33 »

Offline GroxGlitch

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Re: The Hedgehog Topic
« Reply #72 on: February 04, 2010, 07:54:42 pm »
This is gonna sound stupid, but.....
Why don't we all, as a forum (at least the people who like Sonic games) come up with a brainstorm and send it to SEGA? If Sonic's on his last leg, what's the harm in trying. Y'all seem to have a good understanding of what's win for the series, mebe we could get somebody at SEGA thinking again. I know it sounds stupid, but what's the harm?

Offline dndfreak

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Re: The Hedgehog Topic
« Reply #73 on: February 04, 2010, 07:59:59 pm »
This is gonna sound stupid, but.....
Why don't we all, as a forum (at least the people who like Sonic games) come up with a brainstorm and send it to SEGA? If Sonic's on his last leg, what's the harm in trying. Y'all seem to have a good understanding of what's win for the series, mebe we could get somebody at SEGA thinking again. I know it sounds stupid, but what's the harm?

Legally, an employee of SEGA can't read anything that includes off-site business advice.  If they did, the entire company would be viable for lawsuit if at any point in time they did anything that was written in any letter or email they received.  It'd be a pointless endeavor, and even if they did like our advice they'd never be able to act on it and we'd never get to see what we want out of a sonic game.

Offline eropS

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Re: The Hedgehog Topic
« Reply #74 on: February 04, 2010, 08:20:46 pm »

Of all the stupid crap you just said, I find this one the funniest.  Sonic is a freaking cakewalk, it always has been.  Even in the Genesis days, it was easy compared to the other titles out at the time like Legend of Zelda, MegaMan, Contra, Ninja Gaiden or the like.  It may be harder by today's standards, but that's just because today's games are one hell of a lot more forgiving.


Yes, harder by todays standards. Kids today play by todays standards. Therefore Sonic will be difficult. And sorry if we all aren't gods of gaming and couldn't spend hours playing Sonic perfectly. I found it difficult myself.


Look, I know that the majority of gamers are over 18 but I also know that the majority of sonic fans are under 18.  I know that this sonic game in particular won't be targeted at minors, but I also know that the majority of those who would purchase a sonic game are those under 18 who will find it significantly harder to acquire.  I also know that that shipping and such raise the cost to produce the game, but I also know that the company earns one hell of a lot more off a boxed game than three to five bucks, which is the most Sega will earn per download considering that most people pay ten bucks for a FULL game on DLC, if that.


Did I say over 50% are over 18? I meant 75%. Please, do try to post some facts with evidence. You don't know the average age group for a sonic game. And, you are wrong, a company does not earn more from a boxed game over a digital one. If you're too lazy, feel free to scroll down to the segment Outdated Distribution Models? And do you even know anything about this game? I mean I shell out 5-7$ for 3 hours of expansion on some DLC's, whose to say that Sonic will be short? It may not be long too, so you're argument about the length of the game and whether or not its 'FULL' enough is moot.


The problem, however, doesn't extend solely from the numbers themselves.  The problem will be the comparison.  A huge number of people will download episode I for the sole purpose of trying it out, seeing if it'll be what SEGA promised.  Especially thanks to the presumably low cost compared to the usual 50 dollar title, people will try it themselves instead of going to reviews.  This will bolster the confidence of the Sonic team, and they'll put out the second one as quickly as possible.  The problem is that they won't get nearly enough sales to meet their expectations.  They'll get a few thousand from the die hard fans that'll buy anything with sonic in the name, then a few people who will buy anything that's on their DLC.  After that, one of two things will happen.  Either A.- the majority of those who tried it liked it, in which case probably a third at the most will pay to continue their play.  The rest will either think it's not worth the cash for another half hour of gameplay or they won't even realize that it was released, since DLC isn't exactly the subject of all the publicity.  The alternative is B.- the majority that tried the first game believed strongly that it didn't live up to expectations and even less of them paid for episode II.


A few thousand die hard fans? Where do you get that made up statistic? This entire paragraph is one long, sourceless, hypothetical. Usually, people who like a game, tend to buy more of it when a sequel or add-on is released. Feel free to look up any good game, and its corresponding sequel or XP to see how the trends went. And yes, once again you throw out how long the game will be based on no evidence. Moot point. And you say that its cheapness will be a bad thing, yet admit that it will draw in a larger crowd? What?


The point is, no matter how much of a profit is made SEGA will quickly see that they won't earn as much as they planned and Needlemouse will be cancelled, episode III never to see the light of day.  Either that or they keep trudging on, produce Episode III and watch it crash and burn, ultimately turning up as a loss and possibly pushing SEGA into bankruptcy.  The thing is, even if a Sonic game fails in the hardcore market all the twelve year olds have forced their parents to buy the crap for birthdays and holidays so that the games will still turn up a profit.  Now that the adolescent nest egg is gone, SEGA is on it's last legs and unless this game is perfect to the point that everyone who touches the controller instantly falls in love with it then SEGA will fall.  Chances are, Sonic will be bought by either Nintendo or Disney and the days of classic Sonic titles will never be seen again.  I shudder to think what Disney would do with the IP.


Right, because no game on XBLA or WiiWare has made money. Hey, wait, whats that?! Castle crashers made 10 million?! Street Fighter 2 made 4.5 million?! But they are new IP's or just renditions! How can they make money on a DLC?! Super mario 3 made 2.2 million? Madness! Thats an old school game, it wasn't even polished or redone! I don't even have PSN store numbers but needless to say, over the three consoles, its chances of making money are solid.

You have no evidence. You're just spewing random BS with no support, based on your 'observations'. Provide some facts behind your statements and perhaps I will take you seriously.

And you act as though sonic is the only IP SEGA has. They are not on their last leg, sonic might be, but that has been said since Shadow the Hedgehog and yet they still seems to be able to crank out more.

3. NSMBW's biggest appeal is the Co-op play, not it's "blast to the past".  Sonic IV doesn't have that.  If anything, there MIGHT be the time attack VS mode we saw in the Sonic Adventure games on the GBA.

Yeah, and looky here. See Number 12 on the top 20 of 2008? New Super Mario Bros, without the Co-op.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2010, 08:27:34 pm by eropS »
No, no, he did. In the everything else section, at least. Officially, this makes him king.