Author Topic: Forum Nomic  (Read 23898 times)

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Offline Quantum Burrito

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Forum Nomic
« on: August 24, 2009, 11:10:09 am »
For those of you not familiar with nomic, it's a game where changing the rules of the game is an allowed rule. That's basically it. All you can really say, because as a result, the game is immensely variable. It's turn based (initially), which makes it ideal for forum gaming, I think.

Let me know if you're interested in playing. You will be added to the game so long as a simple majority of current players agree to let you in. I have  no discretion in this, or any other rule. Please do not moan at me.

Also feel free to ask if the rules seem unclear, or you have any other concerns.

Current proposal (proposed by putspooza):
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309. I propose to change rule 308 to read the following: "Every player is an eligible voter. Every eligible voter must participate in every vote on rule-changes. If a period of 8 days has passed and not all voters have voted, the remaining voters' votes will be ignored and the they will lose 5 points each."
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5 votes for, 1 vote against
Awaiting votes from: Quantum Burrito, putspooza, Kenotai, Yannick, dndfreak, kenobro and Detoxicated

Previous Proposal (Proposed by Quantum Burrito):
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Rule change proposal #308: Rule #105 becomes mutable
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Final count:
4 votes for, 3 votes against.
Motion passes: rule 105 is now rule 308. Quantum Burrito gains 10 points for positive votes; dndfreak, putspooza and Kenotai gain 10 points apiece for voting against a passing motion.

List of players:
Quantum Burrito: 5
putspooza: 41
Kenotai: 40
Yannick: 17
dndfreak: 14
kenobro: 10
Detoxicated: 5

The current rules for Forum Nomic are as follows:

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101* All players must always abide by all the rules then in effect, in the form in which they are then in effect. The rules in the Initial Set are in effect whenever a game begins. The Initial Set consists of Rules 101-116 (immutable) and 201-213 (mutable).
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102* Initially rules in the 100's are immutable and rules in the 200's are mutable. Rules subsequently enacted or transmuted (that is, changed from immutable to mutable or vice versa) may be immutable or mutable regardless of their numbers, and rules in the Initial Set may be transmuted regardless of their numbers.
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103* A rule-change is any of the following: (1) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of a mutable rule; (2) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of an amendment of a mutable rule; or (3) the transmutation of an immutable rule into a mutable rule or vice versa.

(Note: This definition implies that, at least initially, all new rules are mutable; immutable rules, as long as they are immutable, may not be amended or repealed; mutable rules, as long as they are mutable, may be amended or repealed; any rule of any status may be transmuted; no rule is absolutely immune to change.)
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104* All rule-changes proposed in the proper way shall be voted on. They will be adopted if and only if they receive the required number of votes.
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106* All proposed rule-changes shall be posted before they are voted on. If they are adopted, they shall guide play in the form in which they were voted on, notwithstanding subsequent changes to the forum post.

All current rules shall be kept, in numeric order, in the "statutes at large", which shall be in the original post. Immutable rules shall be signified with an asterisk (*), and mutable ones with a full stop (.). Rules shall be separated by a line consisting of only three hyphens (---).
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107* No rule-change may take effect earlier than the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it, even if its wording explicitly states otherwise. No rule-change may have retroactive application.
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108* Each proposed rule-change shall be given a number for reference. The numbers shall begin with 301, and each rule-change proposed in the proper way shall receive the next successive integer, whether or not the proposal is adopted.

If a rule is repealed and reenacted, it receives the number of the proposal to reenact it. If a rule is amended or transmuted, it receives the number of the proposal to amend or transmute it. If an amendment is amended or repealed, the entire rule of which it is a part receives the number of the proposal to amend or repeal the amendment.
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109* Rule-changes that transmute immutable rules into mutable rules may be adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. Transmutation shall not be implied, but must be stated explicitly in a proposal to take effect.
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110* In a conflict between a mutable and an immutable rule, the immutable rule takes precedence and the mutable rule shall be entirely void. For the purposes of this rule a proposal to transmute an immutable rule does not "conflict" with that immutable rule.
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111* If a rule-change as proposed is unclear, ambiguous, paradoxical, or destructive of play, or if it arguably consists of two or more rule-changes compounded or is an amendment that makes no difference, or if it is otherwise of questionable value, then the other players may suggest amendments or argue against the proposal before the vote. A reasonable time must be allowed for this debate. The proponent decides the final form in which the proposal is to be voted on and, unless the Judge has been asked to do so, also decides the time to end debate and vote.
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112* The state of affairs that constitutes winning may not be altered from achieving n points to any other state of affairs. The magnitude of n and the means of earning points may be changed, and rules that establish a winner when play cannot continue may be enacted and (while they are mutable) be amended or repealed.
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113* A player always has the option to forfeit the game rather than continue to play or incur a game penalty. No penalty worse than losing, in the judgement of the player to incur it, may be imposed.
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114* There must always be at least one mutable rule. The adoption of rule-changes must never become completely impermissible.
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115* Rule-changes that affect rules needed to allow or apply rule-changes are as permissible as other rule-changes. Even rule-changes that amend or repeal their own authority are permissible. No rule-change or type of move is impermissible solely on account of the self-reference or self-application of a rule.
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116* Whatever is not prohibited or regulated by a rule is permitted and unregulated, with the sole exception of changing the rules, which is permitted only when a rule or set of rules explicitly or implicitly permits it.
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202. One turn consists of two parts in this order: (1) proposing one rule-change and having it voted on, and (2) subtracting 291 from the ordinal number of their proposal and multiplying the result by the fraction of favorable votes it received, rounded to the nearest integer. This number shall then be added to the player's score. (This yields a number between 0 and 10 for the first player, with the upper limit increasing by one each turn; more points are awarded for more popular proposals.)
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203. A rule-change is adopted if and only if a simple majority of voters agree to it.
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204. If and when rule-changes can be adopted without unanimity, the players who vote against winning proposals shall receive 10 points each.
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205. An adopted rule-change takes full effect at the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it.
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206. When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it loses 10 points.
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207. Each player always has exactly one vote.
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208. The winner is the first player to achieve 200 (positive) points.
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209. At no time may there be more than 25 mutable rules.
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210. If two or more mutable rules conflict with one another, or if two or more immutable rules conflict with one another, then the rule with the lowest ordinal number takes precedence.

If at least one of the rules in conflict explicitly says of itself that it defers to another rule (or type of rule) or takes precedence over another rule (or type of rule), then such provisions shall supersede the numerical method for determining precedence.

If two or more rules claim to take precedence over one another or to defer to one another, then the numerical method again governs.
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211. If players disagree about the legality of a move or the interpretation or application of a rule, then the player preceding the one moving is to be the Judge and decide the question. Disagreement for the purposes of this rule may be created by the insistence of any player. This process is called invoking Judgment.

When Judgment has been invoked, the next player may not begin his or her turn without the consent of a majority of the other players.

The Judge's Judgment may be overruled only by a unanimous vote of the other players taken before the next turn is begun. If a Judge's Judgment is overruled, then the player preceding the Judge in the playing order becomes the new Judge for the question, and so on, except that no player is to be Judge during his or her own turn or during the turn of a team-mate.

Unless a Judge is overruled, one Judge settles all questions arising from the game until the next turn is begun, including questions as to his or her own legitimacy and jurisdiction as Judge.

New Judges are not bound by the decisions of old Judges. New Judges may, however, settle only those questions on which the players currently disagree and that affect the completion of the turn in which Judgment was invoked. All decisions by Judges shall be in accordance with all the rules then in effect; but when the rules are silent, inconsistent, or unclear on the point at issue, then the Judge shall consider game-custom and the spirit of the game before applying other standards.
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212. If the rules are changed so that further play is impossible, or if the legality of a move cannot be determined with finality, or if by the Judge's best reasoning, not overruled, a move appears equally legal and illegal, then the first player unable to complete a turn is the winner.

This rule takes precedence over every other rule determining the winner.
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303. Players shall alternate in the order they joined the game, or applied to join the game, taking one whole turn apiece. Turns may not be skipped or passed, and parts of turns may not be omitted. The begining number of points for newcomes will be the lowest scoring persons score, less one tenth, rounded down.  If the lowest score is in fact zero, then the newcomer shall also have zero, and the less one tenth, rounded, clause will not apply.
x-(x/10), where x is the lowest score upon entry.
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304. Whenever a new player requests to join, the current players hold a vote. If the majority of the eligible voters accept the new player, he can join the game.
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307. if a player can not complete his turn due to not being active for at least 5 days, his turn is skipped and passed on to the next player in line. Any player who does not manage to post his change-rule in time gets a penalty of -10 points.
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308. Every player is an eligible voter. Every eligible voter must participate in every vote on rule-changes.
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« Last Edit: October 20, 2009, 09:52:06 am by Quantum Burrito »


Quote from: The Will
In a movie, one can always pull back and condemn the character or the artist ... But in playing a game ... we can be encouraged to examine our own values by seeing how we behave within virtual space.
tl;dr. But with all those shiny symbols and numbers it's probably awsome.

Offline Putspooza

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Re: Forum Nomic
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2009, 11:26:34 am »
This looks really complicated, but I'll give it a shot.

Offline Quantum Burrito

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Re: Forum Nomic
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2009, 11:39:28 am »
This looks really complicated, but I'll give it a shot.

Thanks! That's two people now. Don't worry, once you get into the swing of things, it's not that complicated. Unless you make it complicated. But most of the complex rules deal with contingencies.
Quote from: The Will
In a movie, one can always pull back and condemn the character or the artist ... But in playing a game ... we can be encouraged to examine our own values by seeing how we behave within virtual space.
tl;dr. But with all those shiny symbols and numbers it's probably awsome.

Offline Kenobro

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Re: Forum Nomic
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2009, 12:44:45 pm »
I'll try it out.   It looks much better than the other forum games.


Quote from: Grazony
Thanks Kenobro. :)

Offline Quantum Burrito

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Re: Forum Nomic
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2009, 12:50:55 pm »
I'll try it out.   It looks much better than the other forum games.

Thanks. Name added, two more people needed before I will start the game. (Ain't no rule saying you can't join after the game starts!)
Quote from: The Will
In a movie, one can always pull back and condemn the character or the artist ... But in playing a game ... we can be encouraged to examine our own values by seeing how we behave within virtual space.
tl;dr. But with all those shiny symbols and numbers it's probably awsome.

Offline Putspooza

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Re: Forum Nomic
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2009, 04:07:30 pm »
Ain't no rule saying you can't join after the game starts!

Yet.

Offline Grangan

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Re: Forum Nomic
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2009, 04:30:30 pm »
I'll play.
Twas Brillig and the slithy toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe, all mimsy were the borogoves and the mome raths outgrabe.

Offline Quantum Burrito

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Re: Forum Nomic
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2009, 05:16:31 pm »
I'll play.

Thanks, added to the list. One more person!
Quote from: The Will
In a movie, one can always pull back and condemn the character or the artist ... But in playing a game ... we can be encouraged to examine our own values by seeing how we behave within virtual space.
tl;dr. But with all those shiny symbols and numbers it's probably awsome.

Offline Quantum Burrito

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Re: Forum Nomic
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2009, 06:30:34 am »
You know what, waiting for a fifth player is not going to help my chronic boredom. So without further ado, the game of Forum Nomic begins! Again, feel free to join in still, you'll be added on to the end of the round of turns. Also note that a running total of points has been added to the OP.

Anyway, My rule change proposal, #301, is:

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After every full round of turns, an election shall be held for the position of Appellate Judge. The person holding a simple plurality of votes shall be chosen to serve until the next election. In the event of a tie, the candidate who joined the game earliest shall be chosen.

After judgement has been called, a simple majority of players may call for an appeal to the Appellate Judge, the ruling of whom is final.

All provisions of this rule shall be taken to supersede rule #211, including that this rule shall repeal the appeal process specified therein
---

Now we vote. Yes, it's a boring proposal, but I had no better ideas and I can't skip my go.

EDIT: PS I vote yes
« Last Edit: August 25, 2009, 08:05:10 am by Quantum Burrito »
Quote from: The Will
In a movie, one can always pull back and condemn the character or the artist ... But in playing a game ... we can be encouraged to examine our own values by seeing how we behave within virtual space.
tl;dr. But with all those shiny symbols and numbers it's probably awsome.

Offline Putspooza

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Re: Forum Nomic
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2009, 06:36:19 am »
do we just say "yay" or "neigh" now? or is there a procedure?

Offline Quantum Burrito

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Re: Forum Nomic
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2009, 06:54:11 am »
do we just say "yay" or "neigh" now? or is there a procedure?

There's no rule laying out the procedure... So I guess, by rule 116, that you just make your vote known however. So yes, a simple "yay" or "neigh" will do.
Quote from: The Will
In a movie, one can always pull back and condemn the character or the artist ... But in playing a game ... we can be encouraged to examine our own values by seeing how we behave within virtual space.
tl;dr. But with all those shiny symbols and numbers it's probably awsome.

Offline Putspooza

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Re: Forum Nomic
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2009, 08:23:43 am »
Well in that case , neigh.

Offline Kenobro

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Re: Forum Nomic
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2009, 08:26:51 am »
Yay.


Quote from: Grazony
Thanks Kenobro. :)

Offline Putspooza

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Re: Forum Nomic
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2009, 08:29:34 am »
and now we need to wait for Grangan to show up.

Offline Quantum Burrito

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Re: Forum Nomic
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2009, 09:45:59 am »
and now we need to wait for Grangan to show up.
Ahhh... yes. Well, I suppose this could be a slow paced game. Well, it's a forum game, of course it's slow paced. Of course, the rule defining voting procedure (#203) is mutable. And it is your go next. You know, if this bothers you.
Quote from: The Will
In a movie, one can always pull back and condemn the character or the artist ... But in playing a game ... we can be encouraged to examine our own values by seeing how we behave within virtual space.
tl;dr. But with all those shiny symbols and numbers it's probably awsome.