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Offline Flisch

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Genetic Evolution
« on: June 25, 2009, 08:46:41 am »
Game started here: Page 17

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Rules:


Genetic Evolution
Inspired by the homonymous game.

Introduction:
Genetic Evolution is a game about evolution. Several teams and/or individual players fight for dominance on the planet from the very first multi-cellular organisms. Over the course of the game the teams will get evolution points (EP) based on the fitness of their organisms. These points can then be spent to improve their organisms even further. The ultimate goal for the game is to achieve intelligence, that means to create a civilisation.

Players:
The game is played with any amount of teams, but the more the better. Every player can be in only one team. Furthermore, the team can nominate a team-leader who will have the last word on team decisions (Otherwise, the teamleader is the creator of the team by default). Optionally, the team can nominate a vice-Teamleader which will take the role of the Teamleader in the case of his absence.
A team can consist of any numbers of players, even one.

Beginning of the game:
Each team gets two organisms at the start, one plant (without nervous system) and one animal (with nervous system). These creatures should resemble something very primitive and therefore should lack any kind of specialisation. All those organisms start at the same location on the map to create competition from the very beginning and to have working ecosystems and food chains to work with. It is up to the Gamemaster to decide how the teams get their starter organism. Here are some examples:
  • The Gamemaster creates a set amount of organisms ready with descriptions, pictures and traits and lets the teams choose their starters.
  • The teams send the Gamemaster their preferences and the Gamemaster creates two species for each team based on those informations.
  • The teams have to create their own species from the very beginning.
  • The Gamemaster creates two species for every team as he thinks best.

Map:
The map does not consist of tiles. Instead it looks more like a map of Risk, with differently sized parts. Each of those parts represents a different biome, which can be inhabitated by different species. Two identical biomes will never touch each other, as they would immediately merge.
The map itself will change due to tectonic plate movement, which in turn will cause biomes to disappear, arise, merge or split. After a set amount of turns the Gamemaster will make a modification to the map showing the changes, that happened. The amount of turns has to be stated at the beginning and should not be changed during the course of the game. The default is 10 turns.

Turns:
The turns will last a set amount of time which can be varied within the game depending on the complexity level of the world. During the turn each team gets to spend their evolution points and can declare their actions. At the end of each turn the Gamemaster will post a compiled list of the events that happened during the turn as well as updating the world and the map if necessary. Also he will have to exterminate all species, that are not fit enough to survive. He will then count the evolution points for each team and after that the new turn begins.

Actions:
During the turn, the players can declare different actions. Some of them cost EP, some don't.
Those that cost EP are:
  • Evolve: By changing one trait of a population once a new species will arise in that biome. The old species still remains there however, as that species has split from the motherspecies. The cost of this action depends on the trait, that is being changed. For more Information, view the section 'Species'.
  • Increase biodiversity: Increases the Biodiversity of one population. For asexual species, the cost of this action is equal to the square of the current level. (1, 4, 9, 16, 25, ...) For sexual species, the cost is slightly different. (Explained in the section 'traits -> reproduction') Multiple levels can be gained at once if the creator pays for each level separately. For more information about biodiversity, view the section 'Traits'.
  • Migrate: The population in a biome can be ordered to populate a biome next to it. This population can populate as many biomes in one turn as possible. When a species migrates to a new biome, the team can pay any amount of EP, but not more than the migrating population's biodiversity. The newly arrived population starts with that many biodiversity points. The points will not be substracted from the mother population.
Those actions, that don't cost EP are:
  • Devolve: Allows the population to lower either combat stat, temperature adaption, humidity adaption or a diet specialisation level by one. As an evolution, it will cause the creation of a new species.
  • Virus: The virus is a player-controlled mechanism that allows the teams to kill off one of their own populations in a biome. While this seems to be a disadvantage at first, it can sometimes be useful to wipe out an organism to make room for something else. Also there are other tactical uses for the virus. It can only be used once per turn.
  • Disaster: During the game, each team can use a disaster exactly one time. The Gamemaster will provide different disasters from which the teams can choose from. A once chosen disaster cannot be chosen again. Disasters cannot be activated in the first ten turns of the game. To activate a disaster, the Teamleader will send a PM to the Gamemaster with the required informations. The disaster will take effect as soon as the map is changed. If two or more teams try to activate a disaster in the same turn, no disaster will happen and both teams get notified, that the disaster was canceled this way. Their disaster however is not wasted and can be used at another time. If the activations were announced in different turns, then only the first team gets to get their disaster and the second (and third...) team will not get notified that their disaster is being canceled, and it is not wasted.
One population can have several actions at once. For instance, one population can increase its biodiversity and evolve in the same turn. Due to that, there is an order that determines, which evolution comes first:
  • Increase Biodiversity
  • Evolve/Devolve (Create new species)
  • Migrate to new areas

Species:
When creating a new species, it has to follow the following template:
  • Biome: This is only required when announcing the evolution of the species.
  • Name: The name is only important to identify the different species, so it can be anything from latin names to a series of numbers.
  • Picture: The picture is needed to understand how the species works as the traits cannot cover everything. While the picture itself does not influence the play, it is recommended, that it should be as accurate as possible, because else the Gamemaster can deny to let the species evolve. However, the picture doesn't have to be an artistic masterpiece. It only needs a sketch of the species with important anatomical details. No perspective or colour is required, but can be added. Species, that feature polymorphism (sexual dimorphism, larval stages) have to show the differences between those forms. (Female lion + male lion head, caterpillar + butterfly, ...)
  • Description: Like the picture, the description does not influence the game at all, but is recommended to add some depth to the species or explain some things, that haven't been covered by the traits or the picture. The description can be as short as possible and, infact, can be left out completely, if the players don't feel like it. (However, a lack of explanation of some traits might cause disapproval by the Gamemaster.)
  • Ancestor: The name of the ancestor species.
  • Traits: View the section 'Traits' for more information.
  • Abilities: View the section 'Abilities' for more information.

Traits:
There are two types of traits. The first type contains those traits, which have to be stated on every species.
  • Biodiversity: This trait is the only trait, that can be varied from population to population within one species. The biodiversity indicates the variety of different phenotypes in that population. The higher the biodiversity is, the better are the chances of survival for this population in case of disasters, which may reduce the biodiversity. Note, that biodiversity does not indicate the actual number of individuals. Unlike all other traits, the biodiversity does not have to be stated when creating a new species, but must be added as information to the populations when listing them, as the Gamemaster does. If two populations merge due to tectonic movement, the new population's biodiversity is equal to the higher biodiversity of the two merged populations.
  • Size: Size is the only trait that can be evolved simultanously with another evolution. It is needed to determine how many species can popoulate the same biome. There are 8 different sizes, where 1 is the smallest and 8 the largest. The starters' size is 1.
    For animal species to gain one size, there must be animals, which share at least one diet, available in all smaller sizes. (That means a size 4 filterfeeder can only evolve or migrate into a biome if there are size 1, 2 and 3 filterfeeders.) For plants (lacking a nervous system) there has to be exactly one species of each nutrient tolerance. If these three species are present in that biome, the next bigger species may evolve/migrate into that biome.
    Of course there can be more than three animal species of the same size as long as they all fill different niches.
    The cost to increase or decrease in one size is equal to twice as many EP as the current level of size is. (Size 1 = 2 EP, Size 5 = 10 EP, Size 8 =  16 EP)
    Size also contributes to the combat skill, which is +2 for each size bigger than the predator/prey.
  • Reproduction: This can either be asexual or sexual. The starters will be asexual by default. Evolving sexual reproduction costs 40 EP and requires a propagation other than „budding“. Sexual species will always get two biodiversity points when increasing it instead of just one. The cost for increased biodiversity of sexual species is the square of the halved current biodiversity level rounded down. (For instance, if the current level is 9, then the cost will be 16, as it is the square of the rounded down half of 9: 4)
  • Propagation: Propagation determines what type the offspring is. Each species must have exactly one way of propagation. The starters' propagation is budding, but can be changed. For more information, view the propagation chart:
  • Temperature: Temperature adaption is the ability to live in colder biomes. The higher the number, the colder the region in which the species is supposed to live. The scale goes from 1 to 5 but can be increased beyond 5 with the ability 'endothermy'. The cost to increase or decrease the temperature adaption is three times as many EP as the current level of temperatur adaption is.
    Populations with a stat lower than the required minimum will lose levels of diversity equal to the difference each turn until they adapt.
  • Humidity: Humidity adaption works exactly the same way as the temperature adaption. The higher the humidity adaption is, the more arid regions it can inhabit.
  • Combat: The combat stat describes how good a pedator can kill its prey or how good prey can defend itself against predators. The combat stat is a simple number. The cost to increase or decrease the combat stat by 1 is ten times as many EP as the current combat stat is. To get from 0 combat to 1 combat costs 5 EP.
    After each turn, if the combat stat of the predator is 3 points higher than that of the prey, the prey population loses one biodiversity point. On the contrary, if the combat stat of the prey is 3 points higher than that of the predator, then the predator population will lose one biodiversity point. Otherwise, no population loses biodiversity.
    Combat points can be represented in different ways. The most obvious is normal weapons like spikes, fangs and claws. Prey animals can also feature an armour. However also more exotic ways of defense may be evolved as long as the players explain it. Under combat also falls the ability to hide (camouflage).
  • Abilities: See below.

The second types of traits can only be found on either plants (those without a nervous system) or animals.
Plants:
  • Nutrient tolerance: Only photosynthetic organisms have this stat. It can be any number from 1 to 3, where species with 3 need the most nutrients to survive while species with 1 can live on grounds scarce in nutrients. Almost all biomes have 3 different nutrient levels. The cost of increasing or decreasing the nutrient tolerance by one level is 20 EP.

Animals:
  • Diet: There are eight different forms of diet. Animals, which feed upon other species are called either herbivores or carnivores depending on the type of food they eat. The same is true for ovivores/granivores, which both eat the eggs/seeds of other species, and detritovores/corpivores, which feed upon dead plant/animal matter. Detritovores and corpivores don't need to state organisms, from which they feed off.
    These six forms can be mixed with each other, so, for example, a species could be a herbivore and an ovivore at the same time. Whenever a species feeds upon both animal and plant sources it is called an omnivore.
    Two more special diets are parasite and filterfeeder. Those two diets can't mix with other diets and as soon as a species evolves parasitism or becomes a filterfeeder, it loses its diets. While parasites have to state a prey species as well, filterfeeders feed upon microscopic background species. Only aquatic (or amphibic) species can become filterfeeders. There is one filterfeeder slot for each size in each marine biome. That means there can be 8 differently sized filterfeeders living in the same habitat. Additionally the amount of plankton can be raised by spawning propagation, which is not tied to a certain size slot.
    All detritovores and corpivores in each biome have to be a different size. For instance in one biome there can be a size 1 corpivore and a size 1 detritovore, but there cannot be another size 1 detritovore. Similarly a size 1 detritovore/corpivore takes the size 1 slot for both diets.
    There are some restrictions to the diets however: Detritovores/corpivores are not allowed to exceed half the size of the biggest species of the type, from which they feed off. (For example, if the biggest plant in a biome has a size of 5, then no detritovore may be larger than size 2.) Ovivores/Granivores must be at least 2 sizes smaller than their prey and parasites must be at least 3 sizes smaller than their hosts. The minimum size for both is 1. (That means, a size 1 parasite may feed off of a size 1/2/3 host.) Herbivorous species have no restrictions, but carnivorous species can only hunt prey up to their own size.
    There are three ways to evolve the diet. The first is to evolve a whole new diet. Then the players have to state how the species gets its food and from which prey. Furtermore the specialisation level is set to 1. (Template: Herbivore (Species name) 1) This evolution costs 40 EP.
    The second evolution is to add a new species to the diet. This costs 30 EP. Instead of just adding a species to the template given above, the species has to have two instances of the same diet, but with different prey and specialisation levels, which is set to 1, when a new species is added to the diet.
    The third option is to increase the specialisation level by 1. This costs twice as many EP as the current specialisation level is.
    All species that evolve from the prey species will automatically become prey as well, if they meet the criteria.
  • Speed: Speed determines how fast a species is at a certain locomotion. The four different types of locomotion are swimming, walking, climbing and flying. Swimming is the default for the starters. It can only be obtained by aquatic or amphibic animals. Walking can be evolved by amphibic and terrestrial animals and describes any way of moving on the ground. Climbing can only be evolved by walking animals, while flying can only be evolved by climbing animals. Any animal that does not have any locomotion is considered immobile. Climbing anymals must be at least two sizes smaller than the biggest plant species present in that biome. (For example, if the biggest plant in a biome has a size of 7, then no climbing animal may be larger than size 5.)
    Each point of speed adds 1 to the combat if the predator shares this locomotion with the prey. If one of the two species has a locomotion which the other has not, then the species with the locomotion adds 2 to its combat for each point of speed. This only works if the locomotion is more flexible than the shared one. The rule is: swimming < walking < climbing < flying, where '<' means 'less flexible than'. If predator and prey share no locomotion at all, then the predator fails to hunt it's prey.
    Increasing the speed of one locomotion costs EP equal to the square of the next level. (similar to biodiversity) Evolving climbing (starting with level 1) costs 25 EP. Flight and Walking have their own costs, as stated in the ability section.
  • Intelligence: The trait itself is the only way to win the game. The cost of increasing the intelligence by one level is equal to (2^x EP /size)*20 (rounded up), where x is the next level. For example, for a size 4 animal, to advance from intelligence level 4 to 5 the cost is (2^5 EP /4)*20 = (2x2x2x2x2 EP /4)*20 = (32 EP/4)*20 = 8 EP*20 = 160 EP. Once a species reaches level 10, the creator team wins the game. It also has a second function: During disasters every 3 points of intelligence saves exactly one loss of biodiversity. That means you can save up to three points at once during a disaster.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2009, 07:38:27 am by Flisch »


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Offline Flisch

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Re: Genetic Evolution
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2009, 08:47:11 am »
Abilities:
Besides the regular stats, some species may also evolve additional abilities. If a species has no abilities, then this part of the template has to be filled with 'None'.
  • Pack: Packs can only evolved by animals with an intelligence of at least 5. This ability behaves quite differently whether the species acts as a predator or as prey. Predators hunting in packs are allowed to take down prey one size bigger than their own, while prey species gain a +4 bonus on their combat stat. This ability costs 60 EP. Idle malus for predators: 4 EP.
  • Nocturnal: Only animal species are allowed to evolve a nocturnal behaviour. Nocturnal species can take niches that are already occupied by diurnal species without competing with them. Nocturnal predators can hunt nocturnal prey only. Evolving a nocturnal behaviour costs 20 EP, while endotherms need to spend only 5 EP. Deepsea species cannot evolve a nocturnal behaviour.
  • Toxin: By producing a certain poison within the species' body, it becomes fully protected against predators which are not immune to this poison. When evolving a toxin, the creator needs to choose an existing poison or create a new poison. As with the species names, the poison's name can be almost anything, as long as it can be identified as a poison from the name. (Adding 'poison' at the end of the name generally helps.) This is needed to identify the different types of poison and to evolve immunities against certain poisons. Evolving a new toxin costs 90 EP. Idle malus: 15
  • Venom: While a venom is a type of poison as well, venoms are used in an active manner, like spikes and fangs. Thus instead of rendering the species invincible it merely doubles its combat stat against species which are not immune to its poison. Just as a toxin, a venom demands a name for its poison as well. The cost for evolving a venom is 40 EP for carnivorous species and 20 EP for other species. (Idle malus tied to combat skill)
  • Immunity: An immunity towards a certain poison renders the species completely protected from that poison. That means, that it can hunt species with the chosen toxin and species it fights with lose their venom boni. One species can evolve multiple immunities, but not at once. The cost to evolve an immuity towards a special poison is 30 EP. Idle malus: None, but is removed when poison does not exist anymore.
  • Endothermy: Endothermy simply adds 3 to the temperatur stat. It costs 80 EP.
  • Flight: Flight cannot be obtained instantly, but needs to be evolved over a period of time. When first evolving flight, its value is set to 1. Evolving flight and raising or decreasing the value by one costs 30 EP. Once the species has achieved the value 3, flight is removed from the ability section to the traits section 'speed', where it can be upgraded like any other locomotion. Flight can obviously only evolved by animals and allows the species to skip one biome when migrating. Idle malus: Normal speed penalty
  • Terrestrial: A terrestrial lifestyle is obtained similarly to flight, just that the goal value is 5 and the cost is 50 EP. As long as a species is not fully terrestrial it is an amphibic species. Once a species reaches value 5, it loses its swimming skill. Terrestrial species may be able to re-enter the amphibic phase with a starting value of 3 and can increase/decrease this value by paying 20 EP. If such a species would reach value 4, it instead obtains a fully terrestrial lifestyle again. Aquatic species which have been terrestrial once cannot populate the deepsea for obvious reasons.
  • Chemosynthesis: The cost for this ability is 100 EP and can only be evolved by deepsea dwelling animals. When a species evolves chemosynthesis, it loses all of its other diets and it becomes a 'chemovore'. Similar to detritovores/corpivores, each chemovore species in a biome has to be a different size. Furthermore, chemovores cannot exceed size 3. When a chemovorous species evolves a different diet, it loses its chemosynthesis ability.
  • Dimorphism: Dimorphism means that different individuals of the same species have a different phenotype. Peacocks for instance feature a sexual dimorphism while butterflies feature larval dimorphism. Dimorphism itself costs 20 EP and needs another evolution (costs must be paid). When evolving dimorphism, the species template for that species is split into two. One for the adult/female and the other for the larva/male. (Note that sexual dimorphism can only evolved if the species already got sexual reproduction.) The evolution accompanying the dimorphism is applied to only one of the two forms. Whenever this species evolves in the future, the creator decides whether the evolution is just for one part or for the whole species. Traits unaffected by dimorphism are reproduction, propagation and intelligence. They are always the same on all different morphs. Given another evolution a species can feature both sexual dimorphism and larval dimorphism leading to three different morphs: Female, male and larva. When the larval dimorphism is evolved after the sexual dimorphism, the larva's stats are copied from the female template.
    Larvae can't exceed the size of the adults.
  • Broodcare: Broodcare changes the way ovivores feed upon other species' eggs. Instead of just having it as a foodsource, ovivores will now have to to compare their combat/speed stats to their prey species just as carnivores do. However, ovivores get no benefit from the ability 'Ambush'. Evolving broodcare costs 60 EP.
  • Ambush: Instead of ignoring the prey's speed and combat completely, ambush predators will just ignore the speed, while the combat stat is still used. However, ambushed prey species can use intelligence to add points to their fighting ability. Furthermore, ambush is a gradual ability, that means a species starts with level 1 ambush and can evolve it further. Each level of ambush increases the predator's fighting ability. Increasing ambush by one level costs ten times the next level. (If next level is 7, it costs 70 EP. Idle malus: tied to leftover combat skill
  • Mimicry: When evolving mimicry the creator must state a species in the same biome of the same type (plant/animal) that the evolved species is going to mimic. That species will use the mimicked species' combat stat instead of its own (with all boni like venom). Mimicry costs 15 EP.
  • Symbiosis: Like mimicry, symbiosis needs another species in the same biome stated as the 'host'. However, this species can be anything. When a new symbiosis evolved, only the newly evolved species benefits from the relationship, but during the next turn the owner of the other species may complete the symbiosis without paying the costs for evolving symbiosis, even in addition to another evolution. As long as it's only a one-way symbiosis, the symbiotic species will gain EP equal to the half of the host's biodiversity. When both species benefit from the symbiosis, both species gain EP equal to the biodiversity of the other species. If one of the partners fed upon the other, all disadvantages caused by that (i.e. loss of biodiversity) are lost with the symbiosis. Like with diets, all descendants of the partner species become part of the symbiosis by default, unless stated otherwise.
    Symbiosis can only be evolved between organisms of different teams. Evolving symbiosis costs 25 EP.
  • Hive: Hives can only be evolved by animals of the size 1 to 3. When fighting or evolving intelligence hive creatures are treated as if they were 3 sizes bigger. The cost to evolve a hive is 40 EP.
  • Antifreezer: Raises the temperature adaption by 1. This ability is devolved as soon as the species does not live in subpolar or polar biomes. Cost: 15 EP.

End of a turn:
At the end of the turn, the gamemaster will prepare the game for the next turn. He will also calculate the EP and give them to each team. The actions are in the following order:
  • Events: At first the gamemaster will make a short summary of events that happened during the turn. Disasters also fall into this category and may cause damage to various species.
  • Updating the world: If this turn is the last turn of a round, then the gamemaster has to provide a new map showing the changes brought to the world by tectonic plate movement and disasters.
  • Extermination: Quite often species will occupy the same niche due to evolutions or migrations. Due to the competitive exclusion principle, the less fit species will be exterminated completely.
  • EP: Once all the biomes have been cleaned of the unworthy species, the gamemaster will count the EP produced by each population. Unused EP of a turn will not be transfered to the next one.

The amount of EP produced by each population is as the following: The base EP are equal to the biodiversity of the population. From that amount several things are subtracted such as idle mali and combat results, but also other numbers be added due to symbiosis. However, no matter how many negative numbers a population might score, each population will produce at least 1 EP.
An idle malus is a penalty which reduces the amount of EP a population produces by subtracting the number of 'unused' traits. For instance, if a species got a combat skill of 5, but a certain population needs only 2 to fight off predators, then the idle malus for combat for that population is 3. Traits which create idle mali are:
  • Combat
  • Unused diets (specialisation level)
  • Speed (tied to combat skill)
  • Temperature & humidity adaptions
  • Certain abilities

A speed of 3 or slower will not cause idle mali.
Important: Traits that cause idle mali will also produce EP if they are used (kind of like mirrored idle mali, so to say... busy boni :D)

Biomes:
Look here!

Losing an empire:
If a team lost one of their starter lines (called a kingdom) then they will get the ability to evolve one of their species into another kingdom. For instance if a team lost their animal lineage, then they will be able to evolve one of their plants into an animal-like species. To do this, the gamemaster provides a selection of species which are allowed to evolve and then the team gets to choose which one will be the new 'animal' (or plant, depending on the situation). However, a team can do this only once for each kingdom. (If their second plant kingdom went extinct as well, they are not allowed to produce a third plant kingdom.)
If a team loses both their animal and their plant kingdom at the same time, they will be treated as a newcomer. (If they already lost one kingdom, they can only get back with one kingdom.)

Cornu viridis:
Though the game is intended to play from beginning to end, new teams are more than welcome. Since giving them starter organisms would give them a huge disadvantage, entering the game is achieved differently. First the teamleader has to send the gamemaster a PM containing the team informations (members, vice leader, etc.). This is done secretly via PM, because at the end of a round the teamleader will select one species of both plants and animals which have been evolved during the last turn. These species will then belong to the new team and are considered new kingdoms. At the beginning of the next round this team enters the game with these two species as their 'starters'.



Pheww...... That was that...
Now I want to hear who is interested and who wants to register as a team. :P
A list of disasters will follow later by the way, as well as a list of possible starters. (As soon as I know who will play definately.)

Also, if you have any questions please ask!
« Last Edit: August 24, 2009, 07:32:25 am by Flisch »
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Offline Detoxicated

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Re: Genetic Evolution
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2009, 09:00:32 am »
Wow huge project, i like it

i'd get started as Team Herbivore

could you tell me exactly how we can upgrade abilities, and such???
OK, both of you die and let us know what happens.

Offline Huckbuck

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Re: Genetic Evolution
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2009, 09:04:58 am »
Finally. He talked about this like.. a YEAR ago. Well, maybe half a year ago.
@davidramnero

Offline madis

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Re: Genetic Evolution
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2009, 09:37:49 am »
I will start Team Shock
Its species shall have electric powers. Creating electricity to shock the prey and predators and such.


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tick, tick, tick the clock blows up.

Offline Putspooza

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Re: Genetic Evolution
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2009, 10:42:55 am »
That's some wall of text, will finish reading later, sounds pretty interesting, i might join Team shock but I'm not sure. Sentence fragments. good literary device. will use later.

Offline Flisch

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Re: Genetic Evolution
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2009, 10:59:04 am »
Very well, but remember that this is intended to be played in teams, so don't create teams all over the place and try to join existing ones. :)

Also I put the propagation chart into my original post. And I forgot to write the Biomes section, which will follow later.

could you tell me exactly how we can upgrade abilities, and such???
If you mean by abilities, well abilities, then you can't upgrade most of them, except for maybe flight or terrestrial adaption, which is gradually evolved. Otherwise abilities are evolved in the same way as other traits. You spend EP on them.

Oh, I also wanted to make an example template to clear the confusion. :)

Almost edit: Also I accidently put temperature/humidity adaption into the animal traits, but they belong to both kingdoms. Gotta correct that.
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Offline Josasa

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Re: Genetic Evolution
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2009, 11:26:09 am »
This is looking pretty awesome, although I'll probably wait to join a team.

Also, while this allows for a variety of creatures with different abilities, what about creatures with insect like setups or a hive mind mentality? Would something like that go under abilities?

Offline Raz

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Re: Genetic Evolution
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2009, 12:07:11 pm »
It excludes a huge number of possibilities.

But anyway, it seems to me that you wouldn't get nearly enough EP to do really anything. The game would probably takes thousands upon thousands of turns, it would move so slow.

Offline madis

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Re: Genetic Evolution
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2009, 12:21:17 pm »
You should keep stuff more open. For example, you dont have anything to do with underground dwelling creatures. Or would that go under attack? But there is also the problem that plants roots could be not poisonous while the green parts are.

Or will you simply add things when the need comes?

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Offline Flisch

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Re: Genetic Evolution
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2009, 12:27:59 pm »
Also, while this allows for a variety of creatures with different abilities, what about creatures with insect like setups or a hive mind mentality? Would something like that go under abilities?
I thought about this too. I think neither polymorphism nor the pack ability does a hive justice. Should I make a new ability for hives?

It excludes a huge number of possibilities.
Uh, of course, the real life (life as in LIFE) is much more complex than I (or you...) could ever manage to show in its entirety. Also this is first and foremost a game and not a simulation, so obviously I had to cut some stuff. Nevertheless I have tried to bring it as close to the reality as possible.

But anyway, it seems to me that you wouldn't get nearly enough EP to do really anything. The game would probably takes thousands upon thousands of turns, it would move so slow.
I am pretty sure that once you would ever do anything besides complaining you would be able to create something entirely flawless out of thin air without even having the chance to test it out before.

You should keep stuff more open. For example, you dont have anything to do with underground dwelling creatures. Or would that go under attack? But there is also the problem that plants roots could be not poisonous while the green parts are.

Or will you simply add things when the need comes?
Again, I tried to keep things rather simple. If this game is a success and turns out not to be too complicated I'll try to add more depth to it, but for now I think it is extensive enough. ;)

Oh and if it wasn't clear by now, this is the very first run of the game, a prototype if you might say. So bear with me if some things aren't working too well yet. :P
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Offline Raz

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Re: Genetic Evolution
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2009, 12:41:31 pm »
Assuming that the starting biome has two biomes that the starter creatures can spread into, Turn 1 would harvest 3 EP. Assuming that there is only one more biome to spread into, Turn 2 would harvest 4 EP. It would only be on Turn 3 that any new species would arise. This is slow, and I think is indicative of how slow the rest of the game would be, especially since it costs EP to increase biodiversity, meaning that it then requires a number of turns for you to make an EP profit, assuming that nothing happens to that population to make your spending on it a net negative. You didn't really say what level of Intelligence was needed to win, either, when I read it.

It just seems like it would takes thousands of turns to complete.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2009, 12:47:26 pm by Razonatair »

Offline Flisch

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Re: Genetic Evolution
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2009, 12:55:21 pm »
Assuming that the starting biome has two biomes that the starter creatures can spread into, Turn 1 would harvest 3 EP. Assuming that there is only one more biome to spread into, Turn 2 would harvest 4 EP. It would only be on Turn 3 that any new species would arise. This is slow, and I think is indicative of how slow the rest of the game would be, especially since it costs EP to increase biodiversity, meaning that it then requires a number of turns for you to make an EP profit, assuming that nothing happens to that population to make your spending on it a net negative.

It just seems like it would takes thousands of turns to complete.
Makes sense... the first five turns are rather slow and will mostly utilized to populate new areas so the rest of the game will be very slow as well. During the first two or three turns in chess no player will lose a token, so you assume it will continue like this throughout the rest of the game? You are mistaken. You have to put into account that once you increase the biodiversity all future populations branching off of that one will have the same biodiversity. The EP growth will grow exponentially in the later game when people spend their left-over EP to raise the biodiversity for their other species giving them even more EP. Also creating new species (taking new niches) basically doubles the EP gain. Not to mention that certain abilities like sexual reproduction and symbiosis give you even more EP. (Or make it easier to raise the biodiversity at least)

You didn't really say what level of Intelligence was needed to win, either, when I read it.
Thanks, I forgot to add this. I wanted to say it in an extra section, but it looks rather silly having an entire section dedicated for one number. The goal is 10, though I think I will lower it down to 5 or 7 depending on how fast people can harvest EP.

Also, while this allows for a variety of creatures with different abilities, what about creatures with insect like setups or a hive mind mentality? Would something like that go under abilities?
I thought about this too. I think neither polymorphism nor the pack ability does a hive justice. Should I make a new ability for hives?
Now that I think of it, I already thought up an ability for hives, but I forgot to add it to the ability section. *facepalms self* I will put it up immediately.
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Offline Raz

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Re: Genetic Evolution
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2009, 12:57:08 pm »
But Pack ability requires 5 Intelligence already, so you can't lower it that far.

Offline madis

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Re: Genetic Evolution
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2009, 01:00:03 pm »
If I get this right, then the first turn should give 2 points. If you use the points on evolving the plants and creatures then you get a a plant and creature with 2 biodiversity on top of the already existing things. Thus you get 6 points on the 2 turn. But the problem now is, that you can now again create a new creature and plant with 2 biodiversity. This is less costly than evolving the newer one, so you can just keep churning out species with 2 biodiversity.

You would have to do a load of disasters early on. But it is basically justified since new life could be horribly inefficient and take a long time to change or actually do something, thus there is time for disasters.

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