Author Topic: Grain of Salt  (Read 20807 times)

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Offline Fumanchu

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Grain of Salt
« on: May 13, 2009, 12:38:09 pm »
Hey there lurkers and fellow members who have followed Spore at least since 2006 (if not earlier for some).

Pre-Spore
Remember when this place was a'bustling with activity, even during the agonizingly long dry spells when the dev teams were more interested in missing deadlines than making any kind of updates to a (then) non-existent newsletter?

Remember the comraderie that took place amongst a great many posters / readers, where there were frequent threads back and forth and people eagerly answered each other's questions?

Remember the anticipation built up after scouring the net trying to find the latest tidbit about Spore and how awesome we all thought it was going to be?

Post-Spore
Remember that feeling, like in Terminator when the light in the machine goes dim? And how that was a great representation of how a lot of people felt after actually playing Spore?

Remember that giddy feeling you had when you put Spore into your computer, played for a few hours, then realized you were already starting to become an apologetic for all of its vast shortcomings?

Remember how embarrassing it was when you realized you had actually recommended this game to the people you knew that were older than 8?

--

Things have died off to an alarming degree. Because I'm a glutton for punishment (I know, QQ some more), I still visit this desolate place--that's almost deader than a doornail. Any news about any upcoming Spore expansion is now greatly tempered with slamming down hype (and for good reason).

Just wanted to say that it was nice back when, back before the POS that is Spore came out. I suppose the fact that the owner of this site (the one it's named after) not even showing up for years on end is a good indication that this site needs to go the way of the '05 Willosaur. Or maybe just me.



Offline Skyward

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2009, 12:47:12 pm »
1. some people actually still like Spore, even if it didn't live up to the expectations.
2. you are extremely late.
3. Why should we give a ****? seriously, you act like we value your opinion and patiently await the day you decide to lead us to the promised land.

I myself, followed Spore from 2005 and still thought Spore was good, not as good as hoped, but in no way bad. You think differently, you say? I am impressed, you must be the only man on the internet to have an opinion on something.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2009, 01:35:12 pm by Skyward »
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Offline Shadowgandor

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2009, 12:48:15 pm »
Uh, I might have read it wrong, but are you saying Steve should shut this forum down?
That's rubbish, I mean, I hardly visit this section of the forum anymore, but I DO however, visit this forum every single day. I like the community here and even though the forum might've been created for spore, doesn't mean it's useless now.
I'm probably going to slap myself in the face when I read this tomorrow, because of the horrible writing, but I hope I made it clear what I meant :P

Offline Skyward

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2009, 12:50:28 pm »
Not at all, you hit the nail on the head.  :P
The forum, for the most part is still active, of course we suffered a large blow from the exodus of Spore fanatics, but we still survived.
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Offline Fumanchu

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2009, 01:55:31 pm »
Shadowgander, you made it clear, no need to slap yourself tomorrow. It's a valid point--I'm being egocentric and I forget that the other forums have ... steady ... posts / threads. Point taken.

Skyward, the promised land is thattaway. Way to miss the boat, pal.

Offline Spore-addict

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2009, 01:56:09 pm »
the game to end all games.....

I am dreaming about this game.....

The last game ever.....

Rather funny if you go down and look in the big massive vault of INSANE hype.

Much of it is so stupid you laugh out loud.

We are all part of this. Nobody or few for that matter who got flamed badly if they said anything was the order of the day.

I just wonder what spore would have been if we saw an actual video in 2005 instead of that fake one....I doubt many would have dropped out before release.

We all wanted a realistic simulation and we got a fairytale simple game.

The biggest accomplishment is the creature creator....GREAT work. if they only could make it to use with a 3d program so spore does not end up forgotten.
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Offline Snork

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2009, 02:23:41 pm »
I've seen the way Fumanchu.
I've moved on to other better games, ones that deserve all the hype it gets. Morrowind for example.
But I won't leave this site until the end my friend. So what if Spore turned out to be less-than stellar/crap?
I'm sticking to this site till the end.
Yeah, Shadow gander beat me to it, but that's just my opinion.
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Offline Hydromancerx

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2009, 04:25:16 pm »
@Fumanchu

I understand how you feel and have felt the same way about a lot of things about spore. The Pre-Spore ideals are what made this forum great. I especially loved the early Spore-Fan fiction. Howver I don't think its coming back to that golden age of Pre-Spore. Who knew that we would be longing for those days when all the time we were waiting we wished Spore was out. I feel in projects liked Sagan 4 we have captured some of the essence of pre-spore.

I also think that as time went along other spore fan sites and eventually the Offical Spore forum has taken away some of the people that would come here. Also some just don't play the game anymore. I hope the 1st expansion will bring some fun back to the community. But really no matter how much they try to improve the game it still is dwarfed by our own imagination and creativity. If anyone doubts this just look at all the older posts from the pre-spore era.

Perhaps in the future they will make a Spore 2 and it will be what we imagined. But for now we have what we have.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2009, 04:27:55 pm by Hydromancerx »

Offline Skyward

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2009, 04:43:01 pm »
Skyward, the promised land is thattaway. Way to miss the boat, pal.
Technically, missing the boat would be a good thing.
We all saw what happened last time some one took us the the promised land (Spore).

In fact...that is the point of this thread?
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Offline IamMe

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2009, 06:04:42 pm »
We all saw what happened last time some one took us the the promised land (Spore).

It wasn't a very good promise. :P

Offline Axelgear

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2009, 06:05:59 am »
I agree with all that's been said here. Spore was still amazing for me but... I kind of wanted it to be a more mature game. One where your carnivore ripped chunks of meat out of their prey that dripped with blood as they ate them; where sea creatures were still possible in 3D, even if you couldn't go onto land with them; where tribal and civilization were deep and complex parts of the game that had big, lasting impacts after.

Spore isn't bad. It's what we wanted it to be, at its core, but all the extraneous stuff (That is, the fun on top of fun) has been sheered away with a knife.

The time before Spore was when all these things still existed, at least in our minds. Predators could still be bloodthirsty, oceans were still inhabitable, tribes and civilizations were deep, and if you wanted your creature to have backwards feet, it's not like you had to rewrite a part of your mind to have it.

I'm inspired, momentarily, to return to my roots and draw pictures for the Creation Corner. Like a bottle of wine, I've improved with time, so perhaps this might yield something fun.

Edit: Only this time, looking back, I'll avoid the constant one-up-manship I had going in the RP threads. *Shudder* Was I really that intolerable? My goodness...
« Last Edit: May 14, 2009, 06:15:40 am by Axelgear »
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Offline Fumanchu

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2009, 07:49:45 am »
We all saw what happened last time some one took us [to] the promised land (Spore).
Truer words were never spoken.

Yesterday someone (not you) pissed in my wheaties, so I was feeling a bit provocative and wanted to rile at least someone up with this post.

Great replies from everyone. I also forgot that people would do the RP stuff in the Creation Corner, which I rarely looked at. I guess I wanted to create my stories when Spore came out.

As Lippy has said, the evidence was plain to see as newer videos came trickling out over the years, but it just boggled my mind that a team like Maxis / EA could put out something like Spore (dev time=5 years?) while MediaMolecule could put out something like LBG (dev time=2 years?) which looked & felt honestly more polished. Or even Mario Galaxy with its many different spheroid worlds with crazy contraptions, jumping between planets, etc. I suppose I just didn't want to believe what I was seeing.

Also, I agree, no need to shut down this site (again, me just being pissy). I still come here pretty much every weekday just to see what's going on.

Offline darkwanderer

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2009, 12:18:20 pm »
Yes, spore was a letdown.

High time we all started to move on i think.



Offline Inkling

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2009, 12:21:46 pm »
Then maybe you should remove the timer, wanderer.
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Offline Spore-addict

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2009, 01:35:36 pm »
I do not think we will know how much of spore was actually something will wright wanted to release.

I think or hope should I say that he had different ideas for spore but EA made the game as it is.

He cant obvious not speak of anything of this since it would likely violate agreements etc
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Offline Skyward

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2009, 02:06:26 pm »
Will, more then anyone, would have wanted Spore to be deeper.
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Offline darkwanderer

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2009, 03:09:27 pm »
Then maybe you should remove the timer, wanderer.

The timers there for nostalgia, reminds me of how long ive been here.



Offline Bona Fide Supraman

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2009, 04:22:35 pm »
Omg, I just had a quality idea.

We pretend it isn't out yet and go back to the glory days of the forum in 07/08.

We can question why it isn't out yet, what the hell they're doing with their time, or whether a splodge on a poor quality screenshot is one thing or another.

Saying that...I did bloody love it...
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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2009, 11:06:28 pm »
The only thing I still like about Spore is the Creation Corner. And that has little to nothing of the Spore today. I still like to make stories. I like how endless the interactivity is and the stories people can make together. We could make a universe as deep and endearing as Star Wars or Star Trek. No game could ever emulate that. I doubt Spore 2 will ever come close.

In the same line Supraman, instead of going back, why not jump forward. Lets all hype on Spore 2, this time with a gun pointed at Maxis' head. :P
« Last Edit: May 14, 2009, 11:08:32 pm by Gec »

Offline Yuu

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2009, 07:54:43 am »
In the same line Supraman, instead of going back, why not jump forward. Lets all hype on Spore 2, this time with an MPS AA12 pointed at Maxis' head. :P

Fixed it for ya, Gec.

Offline Hydromancerx

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2009, 02:33:25 am »
In the same line Supraman, instead of going back, why not jump forward. Lets all hype on Spore 2, this time with a gun pointed at Maxis' head. :P

Ok so what would we want in Spore 2?

Offline Yuu

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2009, 05:26:15 am »
Water creatures, and civilizations, are one of the first things they could probably put in it, among other things.

Offline Grangan

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2009, 10:41:20 am »
Personally, I think that to make Spore perfect, all we really need is a few decades of development and futuristic technology.  May sound ridiculous or sarcastic, but it would result in a perfect game.
Here's my perfect spore:
When the game begins, it scans your mind to see what art style you want.  Want hyper realistic?  It'll do that.  Want cartoony?  It'll do that.  Want white outlines on a black screen a la the Carl Sagan video?  It'll do that too.
Now, it scans your mind to see what type of narrator you want-what accent?  what gender? how old?  Want a machine replica of Morgan Freeman?  It'll do that.  It'll then scan your mind to see how you want life to start.  Starts randomly in hot vents on a planet?  Brought by comet?  Created by a god?  Starts in hot vents, but with the possibility left open that a god made it?  Whatever you want.  The narrator will narrate what's going on.  Now it zooms in to the cellular level.  You don't have a specific cell.  You can choose a cell and "destine" it to be the one that becomes intelligent eventually, simply by thinking so, but the game doesn't force anything.  The narrator narrates the evolution of the cells into creatures.  Anything you want can happen.  Some things will still seem new to you, as it takes the evolution of your creatures from the subconscous as well as the conscous, and specific events occurring to individual creatures are random.  It plays out like a Walking With style documentary.  It feeds off of your mind to figure out how to evolve everything next, when to make global disasters, etc.  Furthermore, alhtough it only shows one location at a time, it's processing the whole world.  You can go back later and watch documentaries on the rest of the world.  Furthermore, you can rewatch any documentaries created by playing.
When your creature evolves intelligence, it continues to take the activity of all tribes into your hands, but the documentary style changes from Walking With style to a whole branching tree of documentary styles.  If you want, you could even have it be presented in the style of one of those history channel documentaries where they're trying to figure out how an ancient civilzation lived.
When you become a civilization, the tree gets even more branches.  It could be a modern-marvels style documentary.  The only real "restriction" is that the events presented should be in chronological order-though the supposed dates at which they were made do not have to be.
When you get into space, the branches become enormous.  Depending on what you want and thus think, you could have a style where every planet has life, or a more realistic style where life is rare, or perhaps a style where intelligence is rare but life is not, or whatever rarity of life/intelligence you want.  The show style could be like Star Wars, or like Star Trek, or like a documentary still, or whatever you want. Incidentally, you haven't heard about sharing content.  Space is where content is shared.  Though your planet's ecosystem is entirely your creation, other planets that have life are copy-pasted from the ecosystems created by other players in the creature stages.
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Offline Yuu

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2009, 10:51:49 am »
Reminds me a lot about Pressure, which is also an awesome concept. 8)

Offline Kitkat

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2009, 10:58:59 am »
Lots of that could be achieved with sliders and/or checkboxes. I like that idea. And they should add procedurally generated character dialogue and names.
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Offline Uroboros

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2009, 12:58:49 pm »
Personally, I think that to make Spore perfect...
I think that to make Spore perfect, they need to get a second team on-board. Maxis has the technical know-how, but they really need a second team to flesh out the bones that Maxis lays, a group that have experience in more adventure oriented gaming.

Offline Skyward

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2009, 01:19:46 pm »
Also, in my opinion, it just needs to be more mature (and I don't mean ESRB mature).

I am not one that complained that Spore was too cartoony, but it just didn't seem serious enough.
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Offline madis

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2009, 01:22:20 pm »
I dont mind spore being cartoony.

I want to it to be complex! Like dwarf fortress level complex.

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Offline Haseri

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2009, 01:57:34 pm »
Yeah, but it's also got to be accessable. Dwarf Fortress is a good game and all, but it'd never reach a wide audience. Losing might be fun to most people on the internet, because we're all sadists who don't have anything real to take our anger at ourselves out on, so we take joy in just how crazy and how far we can kill dwarves.

But to average Joe Bloggs out on the street? You give him Dwarf Fortress and he'll be throwing the computer against the wall in next to no time.

Offline Plank of Wood

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2009, 01:59:37 pm »
The reason why people didn't like Spore is because at the beggining of Developement people (and yes, I was one of those people) assumed that the Devs had promised Spore to be a simulation of Evolution and Civilisation right down to every little aspect, so in the year leading up to release where it was revealed to be "Just a Game" everyone moaned. People said it was disapointing. Theme Hospitial is possibly the most fun game ever released ever; if Bullfrog had promised at the beggining of developement that it was a "Unique simulator of the Running of a Hospital and a fun sandbox tool" it'd be on the same shelf as spore. Then again forums and the internet wern't around back then; but what the hell I'm just using that referance to remind everyone to play Theme Hospital again.
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Offline Hydromancerx

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2009, 06:12:00 pm »
I dont mind spore being cartoony.

I want to it to be complex! Like dwarf fortress level complex.

Or "Civ4: Rise of Mankind" complex.

Offline Yuu

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2009, 06:27:31 pm »
Or Empire Earth complex.

Offline Bona Fide Supraman

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2009, 04:00:21 pm »
Personally......stages.

What's with all the mind scanning? Can't they just ask you?


With regards to Spore, one of the things that annoyed me most was that nothing else evolved with you, and that the environment of the planet had no effect. If they could make a program that enabled everything else to evolve, and actually gave you some variation throughout the creature stage, I think it would be much better.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2009, 04:03:29 pm by Bona Fide Supraman »
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Offline Snork

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #33 on: May 19, 2009, 09:15:17 am »
Personally, I think that to make Spore perfect, all we really need is a few decades of development and futuristic technology.  May sound ridiculous or sarcastic, but it would result in a perfect game.
Here's my perfect spore:
When the game begins, it scans your mind to see what art style you want.  Want hyper realistic?  It'll do that.  Want cartoony?  It'll do that.  Want white outlines on a black screen a la the Carl Sagan video?  It'll do that too.
Now, it scans your mind to see what type of narrator you want-what accent?  what gender? how old?  Want a machine replica of Morgan Freeman?  It'll do that.  It'll then scan your mind to see how you want life to start.  Starts randomly in hot vents on a planet?  Brought by comet?  Created by a god?  Starts in hot vents, but with the possibility left open that a god made it?  Whatever you want.  The narrator will narrate what's going on.  Now it zooms in to the cellular level.  You don't have a specific cell.  You can choose a cell and "destine" it to be the one that becomes intelligent eventually, simply by thinking so, but the game doesn't force anything.  The narrator narrates the evolution of the cells into creatures.  Anything you want can happen.  Some things will still seem new to you, as it takes the evolution of your creatures from the subconscous as well as the conscous, and specific events occurring to individual creatures are random.  It plays out like a Walking With style documentary.  It feeds off of your mind to figure out how to evolve everything next, when to make global disasters, etc.  Furthermore, alhtough it only shows one location at a time, it's processing the whole world.  You can go back later and watch documentaries on the rest of the world.  Furthermore, you can rewatch any documentaries created by playing.
When your creature evolves intelligence, it continues to take the activity of all tribes into your hands, but the documentary style changes from Walking With style to a whole branching tree of documentary styles.  If you want, you could even have it be presented in the style of one of those history channel documentaries where they're trying to figure out how an ancient civilzation lived.
When you become a civilization, the tree gets even more branches.  It could be a modern-marvels style documentary.  The only real "restriction" is that the events presented should be in chronological order-though the supposed dates at which they were made do not have to be.
When you get into space, the branches become enormous.  Depending on what you want and thus think, you could have a style where every planet has life, or a more realistic style where life is rare, or perhaps a style where intelligence is rare but life is not, or whatever rarity of life/intelligence you want.  The show style could be like Star Wars, or like Star Trek, or like a documentary still, or whatever you want. Incidentally, you haven't heard about sharing content.  Space is where content is shared.  Though your planet's ecosystem is entirely your creation, other planets that have life are copy-pasted from the ecosystems created by other players in the creature stages.
How the hell did this turn from Spore into a virtual reality simulation?
Oh, never-mind..
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Offline Grangan

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2009, 06:35:33 pm »
That's mean, Snork.
Also, BFS, the reason it has to be a mind scan is that having any sort of display where the player has to press buttons would interfere with the flow of the game.
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Offline Skyward

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2009, 06:39:43 pm »
Mind-scanning is too far fetched.

Even if what you said could be done flawlessly I highly doubt it would ever be applied to video games...
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Offline Grangan

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #36 on: May 19, 2009, 06:43:09 pm »
That's why it's a perfect game concept.  You're supposed to ignore any technological limitations and assume that by the time that anyone bothers to make the game we can do all of the stuff the game says we can do.  Sort of like with Pressure.
Also, you highly doubt it will EVER be applied to video games?  That's a rather pessimistic commentary on human progress.
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Offline Skyward

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #37 on: May 19, 2009, 06:55:28 pm »
Well I would assume there is more important applications than for well...games...
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Offline Grangan

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2009, 07:00:08 pm »
You probably would have thought that in the 1960s if you'd seen the Source engine.
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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #39 on: May 19, 2009, 07:09:43 pm »
Well seeing as the source engine is a game engine...  ::)

But if you can do mind scanning, which is not entirely related to games, there would be far more important uses.

Allow this picture to explain.
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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #40 on: May 19, 2009, 07:11:00 pm »
The source engine is a physics engine.  It could have been used for loads of other things involving computers.
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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #41 on: May 19, 2009, 07:13:27 pm »
No its a game eninge. It uses a modified variant of the Havok 2 engine for its physics.

EDIT: Here's some info. As you can see it does more than physics.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2009, 07:17:08 pm by Skyward »
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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #42 on: May 20, 2009, 07:38:27 am »
Mind-scanning is too far fetched.

Even if what you said could be done flawlessly I highly doubt it would ever be applied to video games...


Then I guess using computers to operate toilets is also highly doubtful. As well as the internet being accessed by people not affiliated with military intelligence operatives.

Of course, when mind scanning is first discovered, it will be used for more important stuff. But as we can see from other technologies from the past, when a piece of technology becomes very common, someone somewhere is eventually gonna integrate it into other, less important things.

And for those who think mind scanning will never be developed: Stop it with your chauvinistically limited worldview. In the future, if humanity survives, they'll probably laugh at your shortsighted arrogance, thinking inter dimensional travel is bullcrap when people in their time do it just like how current day people book for a flight. Please. Don't limit yourselves to such medieval thinking. It's embarrassing to the next several hundred human generations.

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #43 on: May 20, 2009, 11:12:25 am »
And for those who think mind scanning will never be developed: Stop it with your chauvinistically limited worldview.



But seriously, don't act so offended when people disagree with you over hypothetical future technology.  I don't know about the rest of you, but I would rather just play the game than have a computer create a fake documentary from my subconscious.
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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #44 on: May 20, 2009, 11:22:48 am »
Although Yuu, your idea has given me an idea...

I just need a microphone and good video editing software.

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #45 on: May 20, 2009, 04:23:49 pm »
Then I guess using computers to operate toilets is also highly doubtful.

This reminds me of a totally off subject anecdote.

My friend wanted to invent a teleporter that you would put into your pants so that you could go to the bathroom without going to the bathroom.  He called it the "Beam Me Up Potty."

Okay, you can continue.   :P

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #46 on: May 21, 2009, 04:11:48 am »
Will do.


And for those who think mind scanning will never be developed: Stop it with your chauvinistically limited worldview.



But seriously, don't act so offended when people disagree with you over hypothetical future technology.  I don't know about the rest of you, but I would rather just play the game than have a computer create a fake documentary from my subconscious.

Don't worry, I'm not out to get you, Ink. Yet.

My only point is that I'm tired of other people treating my hypotheses like bovine excrement. When did I do that to other people? Oh yeah, never.

Honestly, with the timescales I'm talking about, it's actually pretty sound. Unless there happens to be several civilization-ending wars within the next several millennium, I highly doubt we won't develop technology hundred-fold of what we have today. When did the ancient Sumerians ever think that people will develop the ability to erase all advanced terrestrial lifeforms on the planet with a flick of a switch? Oh yeah, they didn't.

I'm sick of being told I'm illogical when I'm thinking practically, and more specifically, within the proper timeframe.

If people really want to call me an excessive futurist, they should also accept the fact that they'll also have to say the same to a great number of the world's most respected scientific authorities.

I'm not offended to the point of murdering someone, Ink. But you know what? I'm just standing my ground here. Is that such a crime? Why am I always the one being targeted by these things? When other people blabber about stuff, they don't get the same amount of ridicule. And most importantly, I don't do it to others.

The only time I remember I harassed someone was when I was currently being ticked off by the rest of the people here.

I already closed down Random Encounters because of this thing. :-/

Please, I beg of you: Stop.

Offline martyk

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #47 on: May 21, 2009, 06:36:37 am »
I agree with Yuu.  After all, think about how far we've come in just the last century.  We're on the verge of clean, efficent energy, AI, advanced space travel.  The power of computers doubles every 1.5 years.  We are constantly advancing at an increasingly fast rate.  I promise you by the end of the century, due to advances in medical and cybernetic technology, lifespans will essentially be indefinete, unless government or religion gets in the way of course.  But we will have the technology for it.

My biggest qualm is people saying  something is impossible due to the current laws of physics or Einstine's laws.  At last check, I do belive it was once considered impossible to leave the atmosphere, to fly, to travel faster than 50 miles per hour, for the Earth to be round, the list goes on.  The laws of science have constantly been revised thought human history and I am outraged that some members of the scientific community are so ready to dismiss some concepts because they go against the current rules.
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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #48 on: May 21, 2009, 07:09:26 am »
Have to make an answer here. To yuu and the other futurists..or what you call it.

I do believe many things is possible as you but there are certain aspects that will halt it or even prevent it.
Because the little simple fact is that not all advancements in technology or science is beneficent for mankind.

Let me show further what I think on.

Today the medical industries are trying to make a stem cell into a sperm cell. That is not something that will benefit mankind. It will just make men obsolete...can not see how that is going to benefit anything at all.

Martyk is talking about lifespans will essentially be indefinite. That is a BIG assumption. Firstly there are some serious issues here with free radicals tearing down the human body's most important organs, infact all. If you breath air you will in the process of using it degrade your body VERY VERY slowly. I am not certain that this will be solved any time soon if we will at all. The human body is not a machine and even machines do break down. How will you solve the degeneration of the brain which in time grows bigger until the distance between the nerve patterns are so big that people will be dement or dumb in lack of a better word because there are a big distance to travel for nerve signals.

Then there is the ethic part in all this. Is it ethic correct to live 500 years...let us say it is possible. What will this do to our society as we know it. Is there ANY body on the world that can guess what this will do. I am thinking on a human population that grows out of control. The number of people on the earth with 500 years lifespan vs 60 or something today is gonna be crazy.

Maybe we will kill the worlds ressources of food and all starve to death because of this. The fields on the earth, the seas, the air is not gonna be bigger. We have a certain amount of food before we run out. Then We could go to other planets but that will require terraforming of the planets because giant domes where people can live is not going to solve anything. we need LOTS of more space.

Einsteins law about light speed has been broken. a danish scientist has send some radioactive waves faster than the speed of light so I do not believe it to hold in the future, future more ripples in space can make you travel faster than light. I am positive that it is possible.
It is like a fast travel between point a and b through a smaller road.

Another area is changing human parts with robotic parts and will people be forced to`?

http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/17/prosthetic-limbed-runner-disqualified-from-olympics/

This is one example where a runner with artificial legs are faster than a normal runner thus being disqualified from Olympics.

I am worried that this so called evolution is going to the point where you you want a job you need to get the newest artificial hands because you can lift twice as much or the newest eyes where you can see 10 times better as a fighter pilot....imagine yourself the things that can be forced on people.

The ethical aspects of science has to be viewed or else we end up killing mankind in the effort of enhancing it.

There are tons of these issues that needs to be brought up.

Mind scanning, ARE you serious? The next thing that happends is that you can get your mind scanned and be put into jail because you thought on a crime like the movie with Tom cruise....doubt that is a path to go. Things like this has a tendency to go haywire if we do not control it tightly.

Is not against advancements in all areas but we have to be carefull.

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Offline martyk

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #49 on: May 21, 2009, 07:16:53 am »
Bah and feh to ethics.  I demand science for the sake of science.
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Offline Grangan

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #50 on: May 21, 2009, 07:30:06 am »
Yes, the government can use mindscan to do immoral things.  You can also hit people over the head with computer equipment, thus killing them.  COMPUTERS ARE MURDER.
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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #51 on: May 21, 2009, 08:28:59 am »
Today the medical industries are trying to make a stem cell into a sperm cell. That is not something that will benefit mankind. It will just make men obsolete...can not see how that is going to benefit anything at all.
I honestly know some women who would not see a problem with getting rid of all men and would easily see it as a benefit.  It's a subjective thing. 

I am worried that this so called evolution is going to the point where you you want a job you need to get the newest artificial hands because you can lift twice as much...
They would need to replace your entire skeletal AND muscular system for that to work.  You can't just attach a bionic arm to your skeleton and lift and move heavy objects.  Your legs would collapse and your bionic arms would be ripped from your skeleton.  It would be more cost effective to make an exoskeletal suit that someone could wear and share.  Making enough for one work shift as opposed to making all your workers bionic.

It's all about cost and efficiency.  The cheapest, most efficient way will rise to the top.  Easier to order a new suit and repair the old one than to lose an entire worker for a few weeks as they try and repair him.

or the newest eyes where you can see 10 times better as a fighter pilot...
Again, same thing.  No need to replace the eyes.  Just design a helmet that does that for you.  And they already have them. 

I don't see these things being replacements as much as supplements. 

Offline Snork

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #52 on: May 21, 2009, 10:03:09 am »
That's mean, Snork.
Sorry, I was in a bad-mood at the time :(
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Offline martyk

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #53 on: May 21, 2009, 10:27:57 am »
HOw did we get on the topic of futurism?  This topic is very off-topic.
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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #54 on: May 21, 2009, 11:42:08 am »
Quite true.  What were we talking about, what we would like to see in Spore 2 (Electric Boogaloo)?

I think what would make the people on this site happy would be if it were a more in depth game, have each phase before space be longer and more detailed.  I would agree with that, it feels like you fly through all the stages just to get to space.
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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #55 on: May 21, 2009, 01:18:30 pm »
Today the medical industries are trying to make a stem cell into a sperm cell. That is not something that will benefit mankind. It will just make men obsolete...can not see how that is going to benefit anything at all.

Ahem.


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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #56 on: May 24, 2009, 09:18:27 am »
According to my 8th grade understanding of science, if stem cells could become sperm cells, they'd actually have to destroy some genetic material or make an essentially "malformed" cell. Men wouldn't take being phased out lying down. Plus, who'll lift heavy things? Or... well... that's pretty much the only thing I can think of.

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #57 on: May 24, 2009, 12:46:40 pm »
Once again, read the above SMBC.
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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #58 on: May 24, 2009, 09:03:56 pm »
According to my 8th grade understanding of science, if stem cells could become sperm cells, they'd actually have to destroy some genetic material or make an essentially "malformed" cell. Men wouldn't take being phased out lying down. Plus, who'll lift heavy things? Or... well... that's pretty much the only thing I can think of.

They could use exo-suits to lift heavy things.

The the real loss would be the male perspective on things. Human civilization would not be the same without both males and females views on life and the universe.

Offline Xeno264

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #59 on: May 25, 2009, 03:03:48 am »
According to the Herald Sun on Sunday, a female British professor has claimed that within a few million years the male Y chromosome will have died out.

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #60 on: May 25, 2009, 03:18:55 am »
OH GOD! That means we only have 5 million years to do our patying and our general manly things.
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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #61 on: May 25, 2009, 04:29:25 am »
plank of wood: that cartoon is AWSOME...really made me laugh.

Take genetic dna from a female combine with a stem cell, voila you have a sperm cell. It do not know the mumbo jumbo but it is possible and can be reality. Men halting it back...ROFL. Yeah like they have the most to say today. With 50% divorces it seems that the idea of no marriages at all is not that far away and besides if men gets narrowed down to a few then wars will end. LIKELY of course if any body like Margaret Thatcher gets elected they may break out.

The fastest runner today is a guy with artificial legs....
http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/17/prosthetic-limbed-runner-disqualified-from-olympics/

" According to the IAAF report, the "mechanical advantage of the blade in relation to the healthy ankle joint of an able bodied athlete is higher than 30-percent." Additionally, Pistorius uses 25-percent less energy than average runners due to the artificial limbs, therefore giving him an unfair advantage on the track... "

I would not want to see him next to normal runners to the Olympics....

The idea of parts of the human body getting enhanced or made artificial to make better workers, soldiers etc. is not that far fetched.

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Offline Inkling

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #62 on: May 25, 2009, 10:43:30 am »
That 50% statistic doesn't mean nearly as much as you think, considering the guy who gets married and divorced four times counts four times as much as the couple who stays together for 50 years.

The idea that artificially produced sperm will render men obsolete is just silly.  The process is much more cost and labor intensive than the old fashioned way.  The only application I see it having would be for rich lesbians to make babies.

So have we given up on talking about Spore here?
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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #63 on: May 25, 2009, 11:34:33 am »
According to the Herald Sun on Sunday, a female British professor has claimed that within a few million years the male Y chromosome will have died out.

It's happened before.  The Y chromazone is weaker and is getting its ass kicked.  In some other speices this has progressed much furthur.  There is one species of lady bug that is only 1% male.
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Offline Kitkat

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #64 on: May 25, 2009, 12:34:49 pm »
One lizard species is completely female.
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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #65 on: May 25, 2009, 12:39:04 pm »
While worms don't have genders at all!  How 'bout dat!
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Offline Plank of Wood

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #66 on: May 25, 2009, 01:14:40 pm »
That's because they're all sterile from the great Worm Wars.


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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #67 on: May 25, 2009, 03:52:58 pm »
The idea that artificially produced sperm will render men obsolete is just silly.  The process is much more cost and labor intensive than the old fashioned way

 ???

All joking aside, cybernetics isn't that much of a stretch, despite the disadvantages. I think instead of bionic eyes that let you "see ten times better than a fighter pilot" it'll be brain enhancements. Neural interfaces for the Internet and other electronic devices, internal SSDs, literal mental calculators. The only problem would be mind-hacking, but that's another issue entirely.

And there are many advantages to cybernetics as well, given sufficient advancement. You could have iris lens implants that allow night vision, thermal vision, etc. or an artificial hand that allows for retractable tools such as a screwdriver or magnet. Imagine being able to charge your gadgets by plugging them directly into your body! (Oh fast metabolism, how I do love thee!)

And about immortality, we'll probably be able to do away with that. It may take awhile, but it's only a matter of time either way. Just a few decades ago, living to the age of 50 was an accomplishment, now many people can live past 100. We're gaining ground very fast here. Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydra_(genus)
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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #68 on: May 26, 2009, 08:22:54 pm »
Hey, wouldn't it be great if this forum had a section for these kind of discussions? In fact, we should have a section where we can discuss any topic we can think of.

I think we should call that section "Everything Else"...

Offline Inkling

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #69 on: May 26, 2009, 08:34:39 pm »
Hey, if we started or rebooted a thread on futurism and stuff, would you guys participate?  Because I still wanted to talk about that.
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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #70 on: May 27, 2009, 04:40:49 am »
Just heard today that some american scientists have discovered that a bunch of genes in process where signals gets transmitted has an impact on ageing. I understood from the article that by halting these signals they could likely change the age of an animal.

Well is not entirely sure it is so simpel as that. ;-) simple. The free radicals released with breathing air does damage your entire body and results in degeneration over time.

But there are whales that can be 200 years old. So and their DNA is infact not very different from ours in this matter.

Beleive myself that stopping aging is not possible. We will die. But 200 years should not be that far fetched. It should very likely be possible within x amount of time.

When we in the future has almost removed cancer, aids and heart strokes. The normal age will skyrocket. The estimated lifetime today is bugged down by young trafic victims, cancer deaths and heart strokes in early age. It is more likely 10-20 years higher when you see away from those.
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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #71 on: June 04, 2009, 03:10:33 am »
Yeah, we've kinda got really off topic here...

All thanks to Grangran, with this post...

EDIT

After playing around a bit, type into the cheat console 'styleFilter -norainbows'. To keep it consistant, you have to keep the console open, it looks good none-the-less.
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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #72 on: June 04, 2009, 01:26:37 pm »
The grain of salt designated to be taken with Spore hype.


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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #73 on: June 04, 2009, 02:26:18 pm »
Galactic Adventures is till coming out soon. There's still hope.



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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #74 on: June 06, 2009, 04:07:37 am »
According to the Herald Sun on Sunday, a female British professor has claimed that within a few million years the male Y chromosome will have died out.

I seriously have my doubts about the human race lasting for a million years, so I wouldn't have to worry about that.
That's what I think though.
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Offline Grangan

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Re: Grain of Salt
« Reply #75 on: June 06, 2009, 10:31:58 am »
According to the Herald Sun on Sunday, a female British professor has claimed that within a few million years the male Y chromosome will have died out.

I seriously have my doubts about the human race lasting for a million years, so I wouldn't have to worry about that.
That's what I think though.
And if we do, we'll have some way to fix it within a few thousand.
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