Author Topic: History, Anyone?  (Read 21787 times)

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Offline Josasa

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Re: History, Anyone?
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2009, 02:08:13 pm »
It's hard to say. While the collapse of the 'civilized world' is extreme, it is always a possibility. Though if this is to happen then the economy will need to take worse hits than it is right now.

But as Always said, the technology we have at this point is very influential, in that information can be transported around the globe at unparalleled speed. These almost serve as barriers against total collapse. It is an interesting thought though.

Offline emmet

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Re: History, Anyone?
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2009, 02:15:38 pm »
I said it was MOSTLY global. And all of those places eropS listed can't be completely ruled out.

Yeah, what Josasa said. We would never completely collapse and re-enter the dark ages with ready access to so much information and communication.
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Offline PatMan33

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Re: History, Anyone?
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2009, 02:17:12 pm »
Depends on how such a collapse would come about. There are some people out there with the means to make a "total" collapse happen and happen fast.

Offline tomasgaquino

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Re: History, Anyone?
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2009, 02:28:27 pm »
Not today. But there's currently a tendency that neoliberalism and globalization be weakened or even replaced by another economical order. Each country will do all they can to protect the national industry, and therefore, the organization of the international market will be affected. Globalization is only positive where it happens, though - who stays out of it will go to the bottom of the well very quickly.

The gap between developed nations and undeveloped nations will not cease to grow in such a situation, given that some countries, like the US, Japan and the developed Western Europe (Wait, that is not a country :P) are more likely to have benefits, as well as economies such as China, Russia, Mexico or Brazil will, under the influence of one of the global powers, while countries with no role at all - there are many to be named - stay behind.

A collapse would require the global powers to have their economies failed - which won't happen, even if at the expense of the powerless peoples.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2009, 02:54:13 pm by tomasgaquino »

Offline PatMan33

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Re: History, Anyone?
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2009, 02:30:56 pm »
Each country will do all they can to protect the national industry

Have you seen Pittsburgh or rural Pennsylvania lately? Nice job protecting national industry there... :-\

Offline Krakow Sam

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Re: History, Anyone?
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2009, 02:44:34 pm »
Its not the technology that was the problem though Always, it was the mentality of the people of Rome and the Germanic tribes and the roman political and economic downturn.

And civilization is GLOBAL?! What?

India - Africa (The continent) - ____stan - Most of E. Europe - Mexico - Most of S.E. Asia - Central America

Thats a lot of the 'globe' that is rather out of touch with modern civilization and struggles today so I fail to see how our civilization is 'global' in any way.

Erops, you're just being uh... what's the word...

Prejudiced.

Western civilisation isn't under siege, and to be honest your assessment of everything that doesn't fall into 'western culture' is very ignorant.
Maybe if you travelled a bit more you'd realise that foreigners aren't barbarians who are 'out of touch with modern civilisation'. The stuff you're saying sounds very bigoted in general.

Anyway, to address your initial point, no I don't think 'western civilisation' is going the way of the Romans. All civilisations seem to inevitably collapse, but rest assured the governing of the Roman empire was a hell of a lot more corrupt and inept than our leaders today, and they were beset by much more dangerous and implacable enemies than any of uoir countries face these days.
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Offline tomasgaquino

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Re: History, Anyone?
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2009, 02:52:01 pm »
Each country will do all they can to protect the national industry

Have you seen Pittsburgh or rural Pennsylvania lately? Nice job protecting national industry there... :-\

My best guess is that that's the damage taken from the crysis blow, that causes this kind of measure to be taken. It's been like that everywhere. What I'm saying is that in order to protect the national industry from now on, governments will try to hold their international investments and repair what has been harmed. Nothing is perfect though, since the tools for that are enlargement of the national debt, problems to both import and export, a trust crysis everywhere.
England, for example, has lowed the interest rate to a level that is so low that they will have nearly no guarantee they will be able to use it in the future to control more instability.

One idea, and I don't totally agree with it, is that the economy we see today is the world's economy 'real' size, since the previous years were just a fake inflationary boom, in stock exchanging, and now it's just returned to what it was supposed to be before, like 2003, in a way a lot more growth would be needed to supply everyone with employment and decent services. Of course there is a crysis, it's not something we can deny, but it's a thought to consider.

Offline eropS

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Re: History, Anyone?
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2009, 03:35:47 pm »
Prejudiced.

Western civilisation isn't under siege, and to be honest your assessment of everything that doesn't fall into 'western culture' is very ignorant.
Maybe if you travelled a bit more you'd realise that foreigners aren't barbarians who are 'out of touch with modern civilisation'. The stuff you're saying sounds very bigoted in general.


How am i being prejudice?

The Germanic Tribes wanted into Rome, Rome said no way in hell. Sound familiar? Im not saying they are barbarians, but they are in fact more illiterate and have more impoverished regions than any western or Chinese province and comparisons can be made.
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Offline Saganmaineiac

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Re: History, Anyone?
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2009, 03:38:22 pm »
what happened in 1732:
    * February 23 - Handel's Orlando is first performed in London.
    * June 9 - James Oglethorpe is granted a royal charter for the colony of Georgia.
    * September 16 - The magnitude 5.8 Montreal earthquake occurs in Montreal, Quebec, Canada.
    * December 7 - The original Covent Garden Theatre Royal (now the Royal Opera House) is opened.
    * Genoa regains Corsica.
    * A total of 139 members of the Paris Parliament are exiled by order of the King, but eventually triumph over the Crown, and secure their recall in December.
    * Cobalt is discovered and isolated by Georg Brandt.
    * The United Secession Church is formed in Scotland.
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Offline Axelgear

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Re: History, Anyone?
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2009, 03:52:49 pm »
Directed at eropS:

No, I have to agree with Sam. It sounds fairly bigoted. The Americas, after all, were founded by immigrants, built by immigrants, grown by immigrants, and so on. The same goes for the majority of the "New World". People have been predicting the end due to immigrants for decades now, centuries even, and the responses have been brutal and oppressive. Immigrants need to be controlled, yes (For example, keep the diseased out until they're cured or dead), but not denied entirely.
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Offline eropS

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Re: History, Anyone?
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2009, 04:00:56 pm »
(Sagan) Dude, I've already hijacked your thread.

I'm not saying block out immigrants at all. That was one of the reasons Rome fell i  the first place us what i was saying. My point is that you can draw parallels to modern civilization and the collapse of Rome. It wont be a total dark ages collapse and it may not happen soon, Rome ruled for quite a long time. Great Powers have only existed for 400 or so years after all. I'm saying that the patterns are emerging and we could see some sort of economical or governmental collapse.

And Saganmaineiac heres one for you if you insist on flaunting your freshman grade knowledge.

The total bombardment of what German province during WW2 killed the most civilians and art at the same time? What did Russia do to Germans during WW2? What did Bismark do to Germany? Who was Bismark, what was his original nationality? Why was Churchill leave halfway through the Potsdam Conference? What WW1 treaty failed? How did Hitler gain press and momentum in 1920's Germany? What were his main complaints? Who sent Lenin to Russia? Why? What 3 words did Lenin use to gain power? What did Stalin do to most political figureheads, military leaders, and scientist? What was the mark of the end of the Communist Revolution? What was the main army the Red Army faced during the Russian civil war.
No, no, he did. In the everything else section, at least. Officially, this makes him king.

Offline Raz

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Re: History, Anyone?
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2009, 04:05:21 pm »
Tell me exactly what happened on every single day, in detail, for the past 14 billion years. This includes solar, galactic, and universal events.  ::)

Offline Andrew Ryan

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Re: History, Anyone?
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2009, 04:07:23 pm »
In the beginning....

*Insert really, really, really long explanation of life, the universe, and everything here*

...And that is how I meet your mother.
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Offline Null

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Re: History, Anyone?
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2009, 04:17:34 pm »
People frequently forget how long Rome existed as a nation. We are talking at least a thousand years, and the rot was internal to a large degree. Rome was fairly weak when it fell to barbarians and had been declining for centuries. I think that since industrialization and the government structures that have come with it is still very new in the scheme of things, it is still a fairly new and vital system. There would have to be a degree of social stagnation, I think, for it to fall completely. Decline, no, but to fall... unlikely in our lifetime or the next, I think.

 I believe the biggest threat would be overpopulation and extreme competition for resources. What happens wen there is not enough fresh water to go around?

Offline Saganmaineiac

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Re: History, Anyone?
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2009, 04:31:03 pm »
(Sagan) Dude, I've already hijacked your thread.

I'm not saying block out immigrants at all. That was one of the reasons Rome fell i  the first place us what i was saying. My point is that you can draw parallels to modern civilization and the collapse of Rome. It wont be a total dark ages collapse and it may not happen soon, Rome ruled for quite a long time. Great Powers have only existed for 400 or so years after all. I'm saying that the patterns are emerging and we could see some sort of economical or governmental collapse.

And Saganmaineiac heres one for you if you insist on flaunting your freshman grade knowledge.

The total bombardment of what German province during WW2 killed the most civilians and art at the same time? What did Russia do to Germans during WW2? What did Bismark do to Germany? Who was Bismark, what was his original nationality? Why was Churchill leave halfway through the Potsdam Conference? What WW1 treaty failed? How did Hitler gain press and momentum in 1920's Germany? What were his main complaints? Who sent Lenin to Russia? Why? What 3 words did Lenin use to gain power? What did Stalin do to most political figureheads, military leaders, and scientist? What was the mark of the end of the Communist Revolution? What was the main army the Red Army faced during the Russian civil war.
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