Author Topic: Secrets to defeating the grox...  (Read 39094 times)

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Offline asurob

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Secrets to defeating the grox...
« on: September 22, 2008, 08:10:53 am »
...do you have any?  I spent almost all of yesterday trying to bash my way through the wall of systems they have between me and the galactic center to no avail.  I tried a number of different methods from the beach head theory to trying to skip over major pockets of infestation.  The biggest problem I ran into wasnt taking down their colonies, but as I got closer to the center my star drive range got smaller and smaller and I couldnt get to the next star.  Seems like there is a certain path I'm suppose to take.  Any tips would be appreciated.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2008, 08:33:25 am by asurob »



Offline spiritofcat

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2008, 08:26:16 am »
It's not really worth trying unless you have Interstellar Drive 5.
When I did it I just positioned my camera looking straight down, and just kept clicking on the stars I could reach in the right direction.
Having some health packs in your cargo hold helps too.

Offline NGW

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2008, 08:31:12 am »
Also keep in mind, you can move further on the y axis than you can on x, that in mind, you'll be surprised what moves you have available to you on the way there.

Offline Telluric

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2008, 08:34:59 am »
This past weekend I made it to the center of the galaxy on Normal playing as an Ecologist with maxed out ship (drives, energy, health).  I did this by amassing a large amount of money and buying a bunch of colony packs.  I dismissed all my allies and flew into Grox space, but forgot to shut off my automatic defense system and destroyed a few... and my relationship never quite recovered from the -19 points I took in category "Destroying our ships." although I was able to do enough missions under fire to get to neutral (yellow) with them.  That way, I could scroll in under fire and the Grox would let me pay to heal and charge my ship.  It was expensive, but tens of thousands of dollars is nothing when I had tens of millions.

When scrolled out, I made liberal use of the pause button to test and plan my route because jump distances were so tight.  You really want to head for the most densely packed route in and you want to be sure to have the highest level drive (I unlocked mine by doing lots of delivery missions).

I think, had I not destroyed any Grox ships, I would have been able to get them to stop shooting at me through a combination of missions and gifts - no need to break galactic code.  But even if they had not, the strategy of keeping them more or less friendly to allow repairs was an easy enough (if somewhat nerve wracking) way to get there.  Be sure to set up a few colonies to act as "save points" in case anything goes wrong along the way - there are plenty of empty systems in Grox territory.
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Offline Telluric

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2008, 08:39:51 am »
It's not really worth trying unless you have Interstellar Drive 5.

Agreed.  I tried at 4 and got stuck near the center.  Had to dive a wormhole and go home the long way to unlock 5 via delivery missions.

And yes.  Get lots and lots of health and energy packs.  You can always dive down onto a planet under fire and click one of each to keep running.
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Offline Spore-addict

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2008, 08:54:29 am »
go up from the bottom!

Remember to place colonies..that is like a new respawn point.

Move the camera so you see from directly above your ship. So you wont click on planets that is out of reach.

A black hole is like a santuary. Just go through, use health. go back. And plan the next jumps. They wont touch when you just hover over the black hole after jumping through and back.
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Offline Captain Indigo

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2008, 09:19:56 am »
I just got a tonne of health packs and powered through without stopping, I got there pretty easily. I turned off autofire too, so I wouldn't be at war with them,

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Offline TDKenyon

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2008, 09:58:31 am »
The best trick I learned was learn to pause a lot. You can, surprisingly, heal your health and energy while paused. It also will let you look for appropriate routes towards the center, because just going in blindly can often lead you no where.

Offline AlfredO

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2008, 10:01:46 am »
I either run around terraforming their planets (they instantly die on any planet over T0 score) or run around until I get a clear shot at their City Hall with my mega bomb. I recommend having max health upgrades, the max bomb, max lazer, some energy and health rechargers, and a set of colonies to rest in Grox invested territory with (if you place a colony on a planet that just had a Grox outpost, the enemy fighters will stop attacking you). You might want to terraform a colony (T1) after you set it up so you can buy more colonies, get charge packs, and use the cheap rest option.

The secret to fighting them offensively is to never directly engage them. Just run around until there are less than two ships over their cities, then blow the city. The first few cities you meet will go down with a lazer in a few seconds, but the next set require a mega bomb or two. On the bigger planets - the ones with two fully upgraded cities - you might want to resort to running around and terraforming them.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2008, 10:03:17 am by AlfredO »

Offline smurfslayer

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2008, 10:02:49 am »
If you have interstellar drive 5 and can relatively close to the galactic core, you don't need to fight. Just makes sure you have energy and health packs and make a run for it. If you actually want to take down Grox planets I've found that the easiest thing to do is turn on your shield and then ignore the ships and use mega bombs on the cities. While your shield is on you're invulnerable and the bombs will take down the cities in just a few hits. Afterwords you can use proton missiles to take out the ships.

Offline RR_Raptor65

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2008, 10:43:40 am »
The Grox aren't very smart when it comes to tactics, I just get a ton of their ships to follow me down onto a planet and wait till they are all directly behind my in a huge cluster, then fire an anti-matter missile at them, which can kill all their ships instantly.  Then you are free to terraform or bomb their cities.

Offline Jonandra

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2008, 11:16:34 am »
My biggest problem was the Grox crashing me.

Otherwise, they weren't tough, just annoying.

I must have thrown 100mil sporebucks against those guys already... They aren't tough, just massively overpopulated ... AND THEY KEPT CRASHING ME!

I would've been to the center of the universe a week ago if it weren't for the bloody crashing .... "Fatal Error: This program is no longer responding. Would you: A. like to shut it down. B. Try to find the solution to your problem. D. Kick Will Wright, and EA programmers in the rear 100million times?"

I got there yesterday and am so disappointed I'm mad.

I've given this game two weeks, and one patch, to show me it was even halfway worth the money I spent on it.

I am starting to want my money back.

I've got games on my computer that are about the same bloody thing as spore (minus the space phase, which they really screwed up)... Cultivation, Darwin's Pond, Sim Earth ... OLD and FREE programs that do just about the same thing ...

NOT including all the spore fan inspired flash games I picked up in the two months before Spore released.

The evolution isn't ... The Tidal Pool phase is the last phase that resembles what I was expecting Spore to be, and it's too bloody short ... The modular creature parts in the creature phase wouldn't be as annoying, but they decided to put a cap on stats... Which I would have preferred to see, if you can't build your own parts ...

That bloody flower for charm really cheese me...

Defeating the Grox? ... bring lots of heals and just keep flying through them spamming heals, or just keep bombing their ships, cities, and planets ...

If there WERE any other way to defeat the Grox, there would be a small redeeming point in the entire (cursing massively, lots of censoring) space phase.

An auto-save feature, optional or not, would have saved me lots of headaches and lots of restarts.

Now I'm going to go post this as a topic of its own.

Offline Plank of Wood

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2008, 11:20:34 am »
Whine whine snark snark

Wrong place to complain about everything. If you're going to whine, make your own thread, don't bring it into here.
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Offline Jonandra

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2008, 11:31:41 am »
Whine whine snark snark

Wrong place to complain about everything. If you're going to whine, make your own thread, don't bring it into here.

I already realized I spewed a bunch of garbage that was unrelated... If you'd have noted my last line...

You aren't even the topic creator ... are you a mod?

Whatever ...

As for the Grox ... If you're luck you can ally them in the beginning, but I have this feeling they are hard to stay allied with ... (game crash caused me to fail a mission)...

Otherwise, it's race to the center with lots of heals, or grind grind ... take your pick

as for the "whine whine snark snark" bs ... I was under the impression that gaming steve people were more supportive than that ... or at least more polite ...
« Last Edit: September 22, 2008, 11:33:52 am by Jonandra »

Offline asurob

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2008, 12:15:09 pm »
yikes.  SO my mistake was open warfare with them :).  That does make it more difficult.  Well I can  get energy and health packs (my drive is already 5) and give it ago again tonite.  I will get to that center :).

Thanks for the tips

Offline asurob

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2008, 10:12:49 pm »
yikes  six hours and no closer.  I have tried to path towards the center and run into a dead end.  A bit frustrated at this point.  Im trying to clear a center area of groks and rebuild my finances a bit  before I soldier forth.  I don't see how some of you managed to do this in the first week never mind the first few days of the game :P.

Offline morphian

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2008, 02:53:07 am »
It's not really worth trying unless you have Interstellar Drive 5.

Agreed.  I tried at 4 and got stuck near the center.  Had to dive a wormhole and go home the long way to unlock 5 via delivery missions.

And yes.  Get lots and lots of health and energy packs.  You can always dive down onto a planet under fire and click one of each to keep running.

Really? I managed to get there twice with drive 4's ;)

Either way, getting to the core is tricky - health packs are an excellent idea, as well as a wormhole key.

Using wormholes/blackholes, you can sometimes find a route right up close to the centre (Although it might take some searching).

I wouldn't recommend trying to take the Grox on in a straight fight as their ships are strong and numerous. Also, if you want to avoid your home worlds becoming a Grox nuke testing zone, you should turn off your defences.
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Offline Hydromancerx

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2008, 06:11:51 pm »
yikes  six hours and no closer.  I have tried to path towards the center and run into a dead end.  A bit frustrated at this point.  Im trying to clear a center area of groks and rebuild my finances a bit  before I soldier forth.  I don't see how some of you managed to do this in the first week never mind the first few days of the game :P.

Getting to the center is easy when you use pause to plot your next jump to the next star.

Offline Miclee

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2008, 06:35:15 pm »
Well, I just got my plan. On my cheat game, on my "fun comp" as I call it, where all I do is play around with Spore... all the comp is really good for, I am downloading that SoL mod(infinite+10 sec recharge) and then I'm going to go around to every planet, terraform it to T3, colonize, rinse and repeat. It should take all of 10 seconds/planet. In a minute that's 6 planets. 360 planets/hr. Shouldnt be long till the galaxy is mine.

Offline TDKenyon

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2008, 07:25:15 pm »
Well, I just got my plan. On my cheat game, on my "fun comp" as I call it, where all I do is play around with Spore... all the comp is really good for, I am downloading that SoL mod(infinite+10 sec recharge) and then I'm going to go around to every planet, terraform it to T3, colonize, rinse and repeat. It should take all of 10 seconds/planet. In a minute that's 6 planets. 360 planets/hr. Shouldnt be long till the galaxy is mine.
Not to pick apart your strategy, but the SoL takes a bit longer than 10 seconds. You have to wait for it to finish doing its job before you can leave. But if you have the patience for this, good sir, I commend you. I tried taking out the Grox as fast as possible, but there's too much other stuff for me to enjoy right now.

Offline DaMuncha

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2008, 07:47:28 pm »
I had no need to do any of that. (I got to the center last night). I just kept clicking stars and just kept moving, even though I had about 5 grox ships attacking me I've bought the high level hull upgrade so I have lots of health, so I just continued untill I got to the center. Theres no need to fight them or even talk to them.

Offline TDKenyon

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2008, 07:48:42 pm »
That's perfectly true, and that point (and many others) about how to go about reaching the center has been made in this thread already. We were discussing options for actually killing or defeating the Grox.

Offline RaptorJedi

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2008, 09:52:49 pm »
This is just an idea, and may not work, but I've noticed that when I uplift a new species in a crowded area of space, with almost no free star systems, they will start attacking nearby species in order to expand, and then they stop expanding at around 7-10 star systems. If that is what I'm seeing, and they aren't attacking just because someone made them angry, a species uplifted in the middle of a bunch of Grox systems should start attacking the Grox to expand.

Offline TDKenyon

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2008, 10:45:29 pm »
The Grox are the most difficult enemies in the game, there's no way a starting civilization would stand a chance against them. There's also the natural fear of the Grox embedded into the AI. So it's not likely to work. I also think someone tried, or atleast tried to have an ally attack the Grox, and it failed.

Offline RaptorJedi

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2008, 10:50:19 pm »
Darn, I thought there might have been some coded in fear or something like that. Oh well.

Offline SporeForSure

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2008, 10:54:17 pm »
You CAN grind your way through the grox. It shouldnt take more than 6 hours (yes, i have done it :P)

On the other hand, i have seen a wormhole near the galaxy center somewhere, just a few star systems away. If you find the entrance to if you could reach the center more easily.
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Offline Prathik

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2008, 12:52:45 am »
You CAN grind your way through the grox. It shouldnt take more than 6 hours (yes, i have done it :P)

On the other hand, i have seen a wormhole near the galaxy center somewhere, just a few star systems away. If you find the entrance to if you could reach the center more easily.


through the grox? as in defeat the entire race? or just go through them.. if you meant through them.. 6 hours seems quite long :P

Offline Yaw_mawn

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2009, 06:05:52 pm »
To beat the Grox, just use a mixture of tools.

I'm pretty sure one's allies don't attack the Grox, but they will prevent the Grox from recolonizing planets, if they even do such a thing.

You will always start out of range of the Grox. This is also a tip that works for just reaching the middle. I've stayed within the 20 parsec range for all 10 promotions before leaving. I made several T3 colonies, getting the colonizing badge, the Terraforming Badge, the Zoologist Badge, making allies and enemies as I went. I unlocked most of the high-end tools, most importantly, the large cargo, all the energy-based terraforming tools, Bio protectors and stabilizers, spice storage, uber cannons, monoliths, you name it. I had all the upgrades for my ship. It was as powerful as it was going to get.

Before you leave home, pick up 1-3 of every plant and animal on your main. Move along the belt your are on, or cross them if you'll reach the middle sooner. As soon as you start seeing some Grox planets, drop a couple of colonies, upgrade them to T3 by terraforming and dropping plants and animals onto the planet, and picking them up right after. The game won't know the difference, and you won't have to fly to some other planet to get some more animals and plants. Place lots of defenses to repell the Grox more easily, and bio buildings to prevent biodisaters, so that you don't need to fly all over the place to zap a couple of sick animals. Once you have a decent economy going (aim for green, pink or purple spice colonies), rebuild your stockpiles, and buy some monoliths. Terraform some random planets to T3, but don't put colonies. Your allies are going to go here. All the animals you drop are immediately put into the creature stage. Place a monolith to evolve them to Tribal, Civ and then finally to Space stage. For uplifting them you will have +50 permanent relationship points, which will make them allies pretty much forever. Build 3 or 4 allies, make sure they have room to grow by taking out some Grox planets, stock up on animals, plants and colonization supplies, and move deeper towards the core. Make some safe stations as many times as you want on the way. I made the one on the outer rim of their territory, one halfway to the core, and then one AT the core. The allies are there to help fight the Grox on the off-chance they actually do something. Otherwise they are there to keep you company, keep your economy strong and to make a brick wall to prevent the Grox from recolonizing lost planets. You can also get more ships from them to increase your firepower. They also make safe places for you to hang out if you have too many Grox on your tail.

By now you've entered the core. You have 42 charges to the SoL. Use them as often as you can. It's very easy to make a T3 planet for yourself, your allies, or to build more allies on. Have a shield, and bomb the heck out of cities with immunity. Use terraforming tools to destroy grox on a planet. You don't even need to place a plant or an animal. Just move the dot into the first circle and the Grox are dead.

While some abilities are cooling down, use others, and if you're devoted enough, you will eventually break them into smaller chunks if not kill them entirely.

Offline DarkDragon

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2009, 06:24:42 am »
To beat the Grox, just use a mixture of tools.

I'm pretty sure one's allies don't attack the Grox, but they will prevent the Grox from recolonizing planets, if they even do such a thing.

You will always start out of range of the Grox. This is also a tip that works for just reaching the middle. I've stayed within the 20 parsec range for all 10 promotions before leaving. I made several T3 colonies, getting the colonizing badge, the Terraforming Badge, the Zoologist Badge, making allies and enemies as I went. I unlocked most of the high-end tools, most importantly, the large cargo, all the energy-based terraforming tools, Bio protectors and stabilizers, spice storage, uber cannons, monoliths, you name it. I had all the upgrades for my ship. It was as powerful as it was going to get.

Before you leave home, pick up 1-3 of every plant and animal on your main. Move along the belt your are on, or cross them if you'll reach the middle sooner. As soon as you start seeing some Grox planets, drop a couple of colonies, upgrade them to T3 by terraforming and dropping plants and animals onto the planet, and picking them up right after. The game won't know the difference, and you won't have to fly to some other planet to get some more animals and plants. Place lots of defenses to repell the Grox more easily, and bio buildings to prevent biodisaters, so that you don't need to fly all over the place to zap a couple of sick animals. Once you have a decent economy going (aim for green, pink or purple spice colonies), rebuild your stockpiles, and buy some monoliths. Terraform some random planets to T3, but don't put colonies. Your allies are going to go here. All the animals you drop are immediately put into the creature stage. Place a monolith to evolve them to Tribal, Civ and then finally to Space stage. For uplifting them you will have +50 permanent relationship points, which will make them allies pretty much forever. Build 3 or 4 allies, make sure they have room to grow by taking out some Grox planets, stock up on animals, plants and colonization supplies, and move deeper towards the core. Make some safe stations as many times as you want on the way. I made the one on the outer rim of their territory, one halfway to the core, and then one AT the core. The allies are there to help fight the Grox on the off-chance they actually do something. Otherwise they are there to keep you company, keep your economy strong and to make a brick wall to prevent the Grox from recolonizing lost planets. You can also get more ships from them to increase your firepower. They also make safe places for you to hang out if you have too many Grox on your tail.

By now you've entered the core. You have 42 charges to the SoL. Use them as often as you can. It's very easy to make a T3 planet for yourself, your allies, or to build more allies on. Have a shield, and bomb the heck out of cities with immunity. Use terraforming tools to destroy grox on a planet. You don't even need to place a plant or an animal. Just move the dot into the first circle and the Grox are dead.

While some abilities are cooling down, use others, and if you're devoted enough, you will eventually break them into smaller chunks if not kill them entirely.

Hi, welcome to the forums.

Avoid replying to threads that are 1 year old like this one (in this case it's fine because you're adding to the discussion)

Also, nice advice.
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Offline Gauphastus

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2009, 09:51:23 am »
I made an attempt to take down the Grox but I got too frustrated.
I made a bunch of colonies out there with the uber turrets and stuff. Pretty ironclad.

But destroying the Grox? That's gonna take a million years.

Better get back to it.  :D
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Offline Yannick

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #30 on: August 27, 2009, 06:45:07 pm »
I found that just terraforming planets and then monolithing them is quite effective because they usually invade the Grox for me.

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Offline Darth Grievi

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2009, 04:55:33 pm »
I personally enjoy hacking my game to get an insane ammount of planet busters... but then I can't brag about how I defeated the Grox...

But, realy, I usually do what Yannick suggests and let the AI do it for me. Failing that, shield on, fly low, do moving bombing runs on their cities. You can only realy do it with the keyboard, though:

Arrow Keys: Move ship
< and >: Turn ship
Tab: Change your tool tab (Social, weapons, colony, etc.) Ctrl+Tab or Shift+Tab makes it cycle backwards.
Number keys: Select tool (Top row)
Ctrl+ Number Keys: (Bottom Row)
Enter: Use tool (Only for non-targeted tools, like rally call and health packs)

Unfortunately, you still have to click to actually fire the weapon. As long as you keep moving from the moment you enter atmosphere, you'll take minimal damage.

Offline Xeno264

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #32 on: August 28, 2009, 08:36:01 pm »
Am I the only one who non-conspicuously slips past the Grox to the centre, leaves, and never see nor hear from them again, just ignore them from then on?

Offline Crazen

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #33 on: August 28, 2009, 08:51:54 pm »
probably
Quote from: SimplyNecro
No capitalization......

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #34 on: August 30, 2009, 11:08:55 pm »
Has anyone ever successfully defeated the Grox?
Maybe it's one of those secret achievements.
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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #35 on: August 30, 2009, 11:40:28 pm »
It's just a secret badge, not an achievement.

Offline Gauphastus

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #36 on: August 31, 2009, 01:50:09 am »
Boring.
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Offline Kenobro

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #37 on: August 31, 2009, 10:48:15 am »
I thought the same thing.  What's seriously the point of badges anyway?  Nobody else can see them.


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Offline Crazen

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #38 on: November 08, 2009, 12:45:52 pm »
it seems expensive to fight them, but I think it pays for itself. fighting the grox can be a lucrative buissness. each city you bomb (and it only takes one fully upgraded bomb) gives you 10-50k, so I racked up a couple million from just a dozen planets
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Offline DaMuncha

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #39 on: November 09, 2009, 06:16:04 am »
Secret to defeating the Grox: Uninstall Spore

lol

I Just keep Spore in my computer for the editor so I can make creatures and export them into Maya.

Offline Crazen

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #40 on: November 09, 2009, 06:51:39 am »
thanks for saying that.
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Offline Crazen

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #41 on: November 09, 2009, 07:29:16 pm »
if you couldnt tell, my previous post was sarcastic
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Offline Rysworld

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #42 on: November 09, 2009, 09:21:26 pm »
Thanks for saying that.

Personally, I like to take a weapons and arms approach, and have destroyed 50-100 planets, I think.

Offline Crazen

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #43 on: November 09, 2009, 09:31:14 pm »
well, they have, officially, 2400 planets.

I'm not trying to actually destroy them. I just find it one of the most efficient moneymaking strategy
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Offline Rysworld

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #44 on: November 10, 2009, 02:55:51 pm »
Well they have, officially, 2400 planets.
:o :( :-\ :'(

Offline Crazen

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #45 on: November 10, 2009, 07:43:59 pm »
I just captured one of the grox systems. that must be fairly rare, cause usually the cities just explode.

Quote from:  the grox
grox surrender. does not compute

it lets you build grox-style buildings. their turrets are twice as strong as normal, and you get them
« Last Edit: November 10, 2009, 07:51:47 pm by Crazen »
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Offline Rysworld

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #46 on: November 10, 2009, 08:38:06 pm »
Oh, wow, really? I didn't even think that could happen.

Offline Yokto

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Re: Secrets to defeating the grox...
« Reply #47 on: November 11, 2009, 06:26:57 am »
I use the Fanatics special power to capture there world at first. That had the odd advantage of them liking me as i used a WMD. After that i just buy there systems.
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