Author Topic: Why should I expand? ... seriously  (Read 7201 times)

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Offline Necrox

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Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2008, 08:37:34 am »
Yeah. It seems currently that the global defence turet is nothing more than a bug. Expensive and don't do squat - I don't need it when I'm there anyway.

I think it's a great idea to make a feature that auto-protects your planet very expensive (even up the price by a factor of 2 or 3)... as long as it does the bloody job.

Offline TDKenyon

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Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2008, 08:40:46 am »
I don't understand why you can't just ignore a planet in trouble. I have never lost a single colony, and I've been away from my home systems for many hours. I've been hanging out at the edge of Grox territory and I get Grox attacks all the time, but I still have never lots a city, let alone an entire colony. Maybe I've lost a few buildings (certainly I lost a few towards the beginning before I could afford max turrets on all cities), but so what? You just go and repair them when you make a spice run. Pop in each planet and mouse-over the city icon, see if their production, happiness, and armor are the same and, if not, fix the problems.

This is also all according to my easy game. I'm still on my first game, I don't like to start over until I'm really done. The Grox shall fall!

Offline econundrum

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Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2008, 08:51:46 am »
Yeah. It seems currently that the global defence turet is nothing more than a bug. Expensive and don't do squat - I don't need it when I'm there anyway.

I think it's a great idea to make a feature that auto-protects your planet very expensive (even up the price by a factor of 2 or 3)... as long as it does the bloody job.

I totally agree you want it to cost a great deal since it allows you to tie of having to defend that planet in the main but it's vital to allowing large empires.

I hope maxis don't try to bundle this essential fix to broken game mechanics in an exspansion because by then a lot of peoples interest in the space game will have been lost. I wonder how they missed this in play testing.
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Offline TFGoose

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Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2008, 08:52:32 am »
Yeah. It seems currently that the global defence turet is nothing more than a bug. Expensive and don't do squat - I don't need it when I'm there anyway.

I think it's a great idea to make a feature that auto-protects your planet very expensive (even up the price by a factor of 2 or 3)... as long as it does the bloody job.

Agreed, it should be expensive.  Heck, you could even make it some kind of on-going expense.  That would provide a money sink that makes buying and selling spice necessary.  Cuz I gotta tell ya, when I can go on a run for 10 minutes and make 10,000,000 Sporebucks right now, money doesn't really concern me that much.  But if I had a recurring 1 or 2 million Sporebucks cost to renew my planetary defenses every hour or something, that would at least make it necessary for me to go on such runs every now and again.

Also, I just want to point out that the Uber Turret does help when fighting things off.  Dealing with invasion forces is infinitely faster when you have one of those little freaks flying around blowing everything up for you.  My only problem is that it doesn't seem to work unless I'm there to watch it happen.

Also...

I don't understand why you can't just ignore a planet in trouble. I have never lost a single colony, and I've been away from my home systems for many hours. I've been hanging out at the edge of Grox territory and I get Grox attacks all the time, but I still have never lots a city, let alone an entire colony. Maybe I've lost a few buildings (certainly I lost a few towards the beginning before I could afford max turrets on all cities), but so what? You just go and repair them when you make a spice run. Pop in each planet and mouse-over the city icon, see if their production, happiness, and armor are the same and, if not, fix the problems.

This is also all according to my easy game. I'm still on my first game, I don't like to start over until I'm really done. The Grox shall fall!

That's another valid point.  I guess you could just sit back and let things happen, dealilng with damage or whatever later.  But I gotta say it would be annoying to have to fly down to every single planet you own just to check on damage, even if it was only every once in a while.  If there was something in the interface that you let you check city status at a glance from orbit then this approach could be an effective band-aid for the problem.  But even then, we're treating the symptom and not the disease.

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Offline TDKenyon

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Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2008, 02:14:31 pm »
I think the change in difficulty in the space stage is necessary. It really knocks you off your high horse when entering. I blew my way through the first 4 stages with not an ounce of competition. Civ stage was a joke; I used no super weapons, got a big fleet, and just wiped all the cities out in one swoop.

The difficulty of Space is a real eye-opening point that I think they were trying to get across: it's freaking space! It's massive, you're not special, you really have to EARN galactic domination. It really is the vast, unruly place space is realistically going to be.

Hell, I know that if true space travel is invented while I'm around, I'm going to be a pirate  ;D.

Offline TFGoose

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Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2008, 02:54:25 pm »
I think the change in difficulty in the space stage is necessary. It really knocks you off your high horse when entering. I blew my way through the first 4 stages with not an ounce of competition. Civ stage was a joke; I used no super weapons, got a big fleet, and just wiped all the cities out in one swoop.

The difficulty of Space is a real eye-opening point that I think they were trying to get across: it's freaking space! It's massive, you're not special, you really have to EARN galactic domination. It really is the vast, unruly place space is realistically going to be.

Hell, I know that if true space travel is invented while I'm around, I'm going to be a pirate  ;D.

I understand what you mean TDKenyon, and I agree that space stage should prevent a solid, difficult challenge.  But I don't consider the fact that I have to do everything personally a contribution towards a game's difficulty.  All it does is annoy me and make some of the tools we've been given seem somewhat hollow and unfulfilling.  I know I can ignore pirate raids without much penalty, but they bothered to put them in the game so why not make them work properly?  Why not make the penalty harsh for ignoring them, but also give the player an ability to let their cities automatically handle the problem?  Off the top of my head:


     To Fix Pirate Raids

  • Pirate attacks occur in one out of every ten star systems you own every 30 minutes.  As player gains more and more star systems, adjust this figure back somewhat so they aren't constantly being assaulted with warning messages. (frequency is debatable, I'm just takin' a shot in the dark here)

  • Colony can handle the attacks on their own with light to occasionally moderate damage, so long as the player has outfitted them with excellent defenses.

  • These defenses have a maintenance cost (upkeep) that the player must pay in order for them to continue working effectively without his presence.  This cost is paid automatically from the Sporebucks account of the player, deducted every 30 minutes.  Perhaps 100,000 Sporebucks each to keep one planet on fully automated defense every hour (cost debatable)

  • City status can be observed from orbit (without entering atmosphere) so it's easier to assess damage.

  • A city can be brought back to full turrets with the press of a single button (all applicable costs deducted).  Dragging individual turrets to each hard point seems superfluous to me once you've made the decision to buy full turrets for every city you make from then on.

Again, that's just some stuff that I've come up with today after reading through some threads and thinking about my play experience the last few days.  Putting all of that in still doesn't take away from the difficulty of the game, so long as you still have to deal with other empires, the occasional bio disaster that still occurs even when all of your planets have protectors running, and of course the Grox.  But it would inject a little more meaning into city defense, a money sink for the otherwise overflowing coffers of the advanced player, and overall make the game feel more about exploration and creativity than work.

That was the point from the beginning after all, wasn't it?

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Offline beatleian

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Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2008, 03:31:47 pm »
I'm not sure that a perfectly effective defense system would be any fun either. Not only that, it should be harder to defend a larger empire. Let's say a planetary defense system is a guaranteed win if you return to the system, but only a 90% chance of victory if you stay away. Then the player would have a choice to make: should I risk the low chance that the defense system would fail? Or should I derail what I'm currently doing just to make sure?

I would like to retain the feeling that a larger empire is harder to manage. But it's a fine line between too much of a hassle to be fun and so little of a challenge that there's nothing to manage. Also, that line is bound to be in different places for different people. Some sort of sliding scale would be optimal.

Offline Sub

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Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2008, 04:11:01 pm »
I'm not sure that a perfectly effective defense system would be any fun either. Not only that, it should be harder to defend a larger empire. Let's say a planetary defense system is a guaranteed win if you return to the system, but only a 90% chance of victory if you stay away. Then the player would have a choice to make: should I risk the low chance that the defense system would fail? Or should I derail what I'm currently doing just to make sure?

I would like to retain the feeling that a larger empire is harder to manage. But it's a fine line between too much of a hassle to be fun and so little of a challenge that there's nothing to manage. Also, that line is bound to be in different places for different people. Some sort of sliding scale would be optimal.

I don't see the problem.  Have two versions - One that costs a reasonable amount of money, but is able to lose x% of the time and one that costs an exorbitant amount of money, but works all of the time.  You'll be spending a lot of money to protect that large empire, thus making it harder to manage. 

Although like the original poster said, why should you want a large empire?  I feel like Spore would be a lot more enjoyable if all colonies automatically transferred Spice to you, but the monetary value of spice was lowered dramatically (Plus, if this were implemented, the amount of spice storage you have should go up dramatically).  This way you won't have to grind around from planet to planet to get the spice and having more colonies will be more beneficial. 

A long range communicator would also be nice. 

Offline TDKenyon

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Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2008, 05:56:17 pm »
I definitely agree about the communicator thing. If I can travel through blackholes, surely there is some better form of communication.

Also, it may just be me, but my colonies do in fact take care of themselves. Has anyone actually let colonies try to protect themselves and assessed the damage, or does everyone just assume they need to help? I assumed I needed to help until I left for a vacation in the center of the galaxy, since then I've just let them defend themselves. I'll make a game in hard, grab lots of cash, and build up some colonies the same way.

Offline MisterBibs

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Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2008, 06:55:14 pm »
Quote
These defenses have a maintenance cost (upkeep) that the player must pay in order for them to continue working effectively without his presence.  This cost is paid automatically from the Sporebucks account of the player, deducted every 30 minutes.  Perhaps 100,000 Sporebucks each to keep one planet on fully automated defense every hour (cost debatable)

There are not enough -s in the world to explain how much I consider this opinion "----".

The one thing I love about the Space Stage is that unlike every other 4X game, there's no ongoing costs to anything. I want pirate raids fixed too, but I really hope that there's never going to be any sort of ongoing costs in Space.

Offline BinaryDigit

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Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2008, 07:23:58 pm »
Fixing pirate raids is actually fairly easy.  All you need to do is modify one parameter in the spore_game.package file in /ElectronicArts/Spore/Data.  You can also modify the frequency of bio-disasters and enemy attacks.  I modded Spore tonight, and I've thoroughly enjoyed myself since.

Sample parameters from the spore_game.package:

property universeSimulatorPirateRaidFrequency 0x031e7620 float 4800
property universeSimulatorWarAttackFrequency 0x031e94b8 float 1800
property universeSimulatorBiosphereCollapseFrequency 0x044881a3 float 4800

There are literally thousands of such parameters, ranging from UFO weapon range, to city health, to tribute demands.

If you too would like to salvage your spore experience, everything you need to know can be found here:

http://www.cheathappens.com/show_board2.asp?headID=71722&titleID=12378&onPage=1
« Last Edit: September 11, 2008, 07:27:13 pm by BinaryDigit »

Offline spiritofcat

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Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2008, 10:13:23 pm »
I definitely agree about the communicator thing. If I can travel through blackholes, surely there is some better form of communication.
Yes, communication is a joke, especially when you consider that planets can send signals to you, asking for help, from distant solar systems, and you can reply, but if you want to talk at any other time you have to be in orbit.

Offline Plasmodia

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Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2008, 10:23:39 pm »
Im not playing space stage for fun. Im using cheats to get to the raw power. Because apparently my species has contacts in another dimension! You think the grox got so far by actually mining spice and fighting?

Offline Necrox

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Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2008, 02:27:37 am »
Fixing pirate raids is actually fairly easy.  All you need to do is modify one parameter in the spore_game.package file in /ElectronicArts/Spore/Data.  You can also modify the frequency of bio-disasters and enemy attacks.  I modded Spore tonight, and I've thoroughly enjoyed myself since.

Sample parameters from the spore_game.package:

property universeSimulatorPirateRaidFrequency 0x031e7620 float 4800
property universeSimulatorWarAttackFrequency 0x031e94b8 float 1800
property universeSimulatorBiosphereCollapseFrequency 0x044881a3 float 4800

There are literally thousands of such parameters, ranging from UFO weapon range, to city health, to tribute demands.

If you too would like to salvage your spore experience, everything you need to know can be found here:

http://www.cheathappens.com/show_board2.asp?headID=71722&titleID=12378&onPage=1

I've seen those parameters listed before and as I recall the poster found out that they don't actually work. It's a lot more complicated to adjust them than just editing the file, partly because the file is reset when you load the game.

Offline Spore-addict

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Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2008, 02:36:52 am »
with force you can have a large empire under you.

Just remember star wars where many planets are under darth vaders control. The threat of a "visit" from the armada of ships like the SSD and other star destroyers is enough to make planets stay in control. Although it is under a fear it still works.

A peacefull empire would have other ways of keeping an empire in order like democrazy etc.

So big empires can excist.

But in spore it is different. Many things should have been changed in the space stage..and we are facing the issues now.
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