Author Topic: Spore Advanced: The wishlist V1.1  (Read 16609 times)

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Offline FalconNL

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Spore Advanced: The wishlist V1.1
« on: September 08, 2008, 03:03:47 am »
Note: This thread is a list of long-term ideas for expansion packs, mods or different games entirely. It is NOT a list of things we want in patches for Spore. As such it should not be merged with topics such as "Attn Maxis: Suggestions for changes to the game" and discussion for short-term fixes should be conducted in different threads. Thank you for your cooperation.

After three years of waiting Spore has finally been released and it has done a thoroughly commendable job of getting down the breadth of the gameplay and solving the technological hurdles. However, there are a lot of people who were hoping for a lot more depth as well. Some of these were even in early videos, but they were cut due to time, gameplay or target audience constraints. This is fine. As someone else noted Spore has created a new genre and is currently the only game in it. There will be other games that do the same thing but better. And so we come to this topic. This post will be a list of ideas for a future, more serious successor to Spore, i.e. if Spore is SimCity Societies, this is an idea list for Cities XL. Naturally, if Maxis chooses to address any of them in patches/expansion packs that would be much appreciated, but it is not the main focus of this thread. Not all of these ideas will necessarily result in good gameplay. I will be editing this post as I think of more ideas. Others are encouraged to post their ideas as well and I'll try to periodically integrate them into the first post to get a comprehensive list of inspiration for modders, game companies that are going to license the Spore Engine or companies making a whole new engine.

Cell phase
Not a whole lot of demands here yet. The stage does what it intends to and at the moment I don't see any great improvements or opportunities for increased depth. Perhaps a different company might go for a more realistic look but the cartoony thing works fairly well here.

  • Maxis has decided to cut the water stage. I can see why they did so, since the gameplay is fairly similar to the cell and the creature phase. However, this means no aquatic civilizations, which is a real shame. Therefore, I propose that instead of just legs we can also place gills, fins, etc. If you place legs and no gills you will be a land creature and things proceed as they do now. If you place no legs but gills and fins you will be an aquatic civilization. Place both legs and gills and you will be an amphibian. Switching between these should remain possible in the creature stage.
  • NEW: Ability to start on a hot or cold planet in addition to the current T3 planets

Creature phase
  • A better animation system. Bodies sometimes stretch in non-natural ways
  • Intersection detection. No parts of the creature should ever go through each other, the ground or other creatures.
  • Hair. While hair can be faked to some extent, making a wooly mammoth is still pretty much impossible.
  • More parts. Self-explanatory.
  • More variation in herd size. There are currently few or no solitary creatures
  • Let creatures stray from their herd. This lets you pick off creatures without it immediately becoming an all-out brawl.
  • Fight or flight. Currently attacking a herd means they will become angry and attack you. Compare gazelles. They don't attack the lion, they run.
  • Killing a creature produces a corpse, which you can then eat. A corpse attracts scavengers. To protect against this you can drag the corpse away (see the GDC 2005 video).
  • Allow different looks for males and females (compare lions, peacocks, etc.)
  • Flying creatures
  • Nests in places other than the ground. Trees (for flying creatures), caves (especially under water), mountains, etc.
  • Predators when playing a herbivore. When playing a herbivore there is virtually no threat as long as you don't come too close to epics or a carnivore nest. The farther away you venture from your nest, the bigger the chance should be that something will try to eat you.
  • Consequence for failure when socializing. Currently failing a minigame means you can just try again on a different member of that species. After three failed attempts or so the species should become hostile or at least dismissive of further attempts until they are appeased some other way.
  • Different terrain types. Currently we have the following terrain types: 1) water 2) land, land with trees, hills (all play the same) 3) mountains (land, but too steep to walk on). Ideally there would be more different types of environment, which are visually distinct and which have an effect on gameplay. E.g. mountains (rock, requires certain creature configuration to navigate (mountain goat vs. giraffe)), swamp (amphibian only), forest (no big creatures), caves (eyes are useless, require different senses), polar regions (require thick fur/alternative way to keep warm), savanna/desert (no thick fur), etc.
  • Different way of befriending creatures, e.g. dragging corpses over to their nest and leaving them there (food sharing), protecting them from attack (bodyguard), etc.
  • Migration should be based on food supply near nest, not mission after x points/time. During migration it would be more realistic to travel with the whole group instead of solitary. Predator attacks while migrating should be frequent. It might be interesting to have to cross a river during this point, which obviously contains more predators (compare gnus vs. crocodiles)
  • Apart from food drinking should be required as well. This leads to interesting dynamics around watering holes (meeting new species, keeping watch for predators, etc.)
  • NEW: Different AIs for other races. This goes along various axes like Passive-Aggressive, Protective-Every man for himself, Explorative-Indifferent, Flee-Stand and fight, Herd-Individual, Trustworthy-Treacherous, Greedy-Zen, etc.[/i]
Tribal phase
  • Hunting semi-epics. A group of creatures should be able to defeat a creature that's quite a bit bigger and stronger than them, but not epic in scale (compare man hunting mammoths).
  • Customization options for buildings
  • A tech tree. Unlike Civilization, large parts of the tree should be optional and there should be multiple paths to techs. For instance, you can get to javelins from sharp rocks (add a stick and throw it) or from thrown rocks (add a stick and make it sharper).
  • Trading. We are fisherman, but for a balanced diet we need fruit. We'll trade you these fish for your fruits.
  • More ways to anger tribes. You are picking fruit from our trees/fishing in our rivers, etc.
  • Allow more than three pets at a time.
  • Allow pets to be mounted. For technical reasons this should probably be restricted to creatures with certain layouts, but it should be possible.
  • Allow eggs from pets and processed pets to be a major food source (apart from fish, fruit, corpses)
  • NEW: Ability to colour clothing separately from the creature. This goes for civ and space stages as well.

Civ phase
  • Completely free building placement. No city wall. For practical reasons restrict building to a radius from existing buildings (similar to a lot of RTS games). Make building walls free as well.
  • No limits to city size (Allowing Coruscant-like planets)
  • More realistic scale compared to the planet. With current dimensions recreating earth is fairly impossible since one city takes almost an entire continent.
  • More building types. small/medium/large Religious buildings (shrine/temple/cathedral), small/medium/large economic buildings (supermarket, bank, stock market), small/medium/large war buildings (barracks, army camp, vehicle factory), small/medium/large productivity building (workshop, refinery, factory)
  • Wonders of the world (like Civilization, but customized) with selectable effect.
  • Like nests, allow different locations for cities. Cities in trees/treetops (Lothlorien), Floating cities, underwater cities (with dome if you are a land dweller), cities on land (with water-filled dome if you are an aquatic species), underground cities, cities on mountains, cities on top of the water (Waterworld)
  • Religious conversion should not gradually damage vehicles. You send a religious delegation to convert a city. Depending on how strong that city's faith is the attempt will succeed (city is converted), their faith is weakened (your vehicles are sent home but the city is not yet converted) or they will reject your conversion (your delegation is destroyed)
  • Economic conversion should be a gradual process, not a true/false affair. You should be able to gradually acquire more control of the city's finances (which increases your revenue. See it as buying some of their companies and becoming shareholders) until you have full control and the city becomes yours.
  • Different types of military units (knights, tanks, artillery, infantry, etc.). Something of a rock-paper scissors affair. Allow far greater amount of units for more realistic battles (50 or so per side should be fine)
  • Allow customizing the city floor, walls, decorations.
  • More textures. Also a texture editor to create new procedural textures.
  • Far higher complexity limit.
  • More parts.
  • Diplomatic options (alliances, non-aggression pacts, trade routes, etc.)
  • NEW: Combat as a subgame. The proposed larger armies will probably be infeasible to display on the planet scale. Instead, display them iconically (compare to the way cities would become larger as you zoomed out in the GDC 2005 video). When two armies meet or an army comes up to a city, zoom in to display the battlefield. The gameplay in this game is basically a slow RTS. This allows tactical maneuvers like flanking, pincer strikes, etc. while keeping the real-time nature of the game. Apart from fighting a city it should also be possible to hold a siege at the planetary level, slowly draining the city of food until they are relieved by that nation's army, at which point a battle occurs.
  • NEW: Allow designing your nation's flag.
  • NEW: Allow editing your government style. A simple way would be to have a series of sliders with Personal freedom, bureaucracy, militarism, draft age (if any), etc. More complex options are possible as well.
  • NEW: Allow editing your religion (if any). Amount of gods, sex and names of gods, look of gods (= creature editor), allow writing holy texts and commandments in a text field, etc.
  • NEW: Much higher complexity limit in buildings
  • NEW: No scale restrictions in building parts. You should be able to make parts as big or small as you want to.
  • NEW: For that matter, once freeform building placement is allowed, no size restrictions on the building either. Some buildings are simply a lot bigger than other (Beijing's Forbidden City vs. an average house. Building scale should depend on the size of the door, i.e. the door should be big enough to fit one of your creatures through and if a building has a bigger or smaller door the building will be scaled to match the correct size.
  • NEW: Control over texture wrapping.
  • NEW: Different types of resources. Allows for trading and wars over scarce resources instead of everyone having access to the same spice.
  • NEW: More advanced music editor. Perhaps first you pick a genre, then pick instruments, then use sliders to control tempo, cheerfulness, etc.
  • NEW: Ability to construct vehicles based on mounts: chariots, creature-drawn carriages, etc.

Space phase
  • Make missions completely voluntary (compare Grand Theft Auto). No "Your colony is being attacked by pirates" every three minutes.
  • If random attacks are kept in, make planets able to defend themselves. The likelihood of the pirate attack succeeding depends on the quality of the defenses. Initially this will be a per-city defense (turrets) but later on you can place satellite defense networks or something that protect the entire planet, reducing micromanagement. UPDATE: Perhaps an option to control those planetary defenses.
  • NEW: If pirates are kept in, they should have a home planet with an operating radius. Destroy their base there (or the entire planet) to permanently stop pirate attacks in that sector.
  • No three cities per planet limit, though the amount and type of buildings should depend on the T-score. For instance: T0 = no free building. You are limited to a protective dome similar to the way it works now. Only small buildings allowed. T1 = There is atmosphere, so free building. Still only small buildings though. T2 = small and medium buildings. T3 = Go nuts.
  • A galactic stockmarket where you can see the prices every planet you've visited is offering for the different spice types. This makes a Gazillionaire-like subgame possible.
  • A list of all the planets you've visited where you can search for certain criteria, e.g. a planet with at least a T2 score that's in an uninhabited system that produces purple spice.
  • A long-range communicator so you can communicate with any visited planet.
  • More galactic phenomena. So far the collection screen list black holes, proto-planetary disks and a several types of binary star systems. Where are the pulsars, the neutron stars, the nebulae (if think they're there but you can't visit them), the trinary star systems, the supernovas, etc.?
  • Mega-constructs. Dyson spheres, Halo rings, etc.
  • Planet sculpting.
    • Add a way to make all tools free and infinite to use. Placing a volcano should not cost you 10 minutes of spice harvesting.
    • Make raise/lower/level tools laser-based instead of missile based.
    • Add a Tiny and Huge scale for the tools beyond small, medium and large.
    • Add an option to flatten the whole planet.
    • Allow much more variation in planet size, from small comet to the largest solid planet
    • Allow painting regions with different textures instead of the whole planet being one texture. (beaches, deserts, etc. see also creature phase)
    • Have polar regions depending on planet temperature and oriented towards the sun(s).
    • Allow beaming down to planet for terraforming that is hard to do from orbit (caves etc.)
    • Realistic water behaviour: waterfalls etc.
    • Speed up time tool to allow for natural erosion.
    • Tool to raise/lower sea level independent of planet temperature (within limits. A lava-filled planet will obviously not support any water)
    • Allow planets to look completely artificial (e.g. Deathstar appearance)
    • Mega-structures, both natural and artificial. (E.g. Shiitake Moon from the Spore concept paintings)
  • Tools to shape solar systems/parts of the galaxy
    • A tractor beam to move planets, suns or entire solar systems. While doing this, show projected orbit. For the sake of gameplay, speed up time massively while doing this so that when you let go of the planet you can see it spiral into the sun.
    • Naturally all the laws of physics should apply here, so crashing two planets into eachother should leave craters, create new moons or, if the impact is big enough, a proto-planetary disk.
    • Have a tool that automatically finds a stable orbit around one or more bodies. Useful for adding new planets or moons.
    • NEW: Ability to change size of planets and suns. Making a sun too big will result in a gravitational collapse, resulting in a black hole.
    • NEW: Ability to design interstellar vehicles that you do not control but that you can give tasks, e.g. "Transport all the spice produced on planet Dune to planet Arrakis" or "Keep traveling between these five planets and fight and attackers"

Additional editors
  • A flora editor
  • A clothing editor, i.e. the ability to create clothes instead of just placing the few premade ones.
  • NEW: Texture editor. See Civ phase.
  • NEW: Weapon/Tool editor

  • NEW: The ability to export any object to Maya/3D Studio Max
« Last Edit: September 10, 2008, 01:40:27 pm by FalconNL »

Offline LadyM

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Re: Attn Maxis: Suggestions for future changes/expansions
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2008, 06:00:44 am »
Split back to it's own thread due to popular demand. Please don't spam the thread and keep the main discussion here:

Let the OP update the first post with his ideas.

Offline FalconNL

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Re: Spore Advanced: The wishlist V1.1
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2008, 03:04:04 pm »
80 ideas and counting; version number updated to 1.1.
Feel free to suggest more.

Offline Veraal

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Re: Spore Advanced: The wishlist V1.1
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2008, 03:08:44 pm »
i hope maxis notices this, as those are all valid ideas.

good job, mate!

Offline Doomsday

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Re: Spore Advanced: The wishlist V1.1
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2008, 03:34:24 pm »
i hope maxis notices this, as those are all valid ideas.

good job, mate!

They aren't all valid. There are legitimate reasons as to why some of these cannot and should not be done, but overall it's a good list.
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Offline Lurker28

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Re: Spore Advanced: The wishlist V1.1
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2008, 03:53:40 pm »
A weapons editor/tool editor in the tribal stage would add a little more depth to the weapons you use as well as the musical instruments. Also, cities/tribes should not all be the same circular shape, but should have more of randomized shape (so there is different strategy every time you build a new city in terms of how you arrange your buildings for happiness).

Offline SiestaGuru

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Re: Spore Advanced: The wishlist V1.1
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2008, 04:12:41 pm »
Great list, some are probably undoable (the mounting thing) but you have some nice ideas there, some of which i had though of myself aswell.

Actually the only thing i could think of thats not on the list is being able to choose some behaviour styles for your creature, mybe just simple ones such as "agressive" or a bit more sophisticated like the space philosophies (bard, zealot, warrior...). Or allow the player to select a few things on his own instead of picking a preset profile with options such as "trustworthy' or "locigal/emotional". Obviiously a better diplomacy system is also required for this (especially for tribe, but the civ and space ones are pretty mediocre aswell)
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Offline dreck345

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Re: Spore Advanced: The wishlist V1.1
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2008, 04:15:30 pm »
awesome list!

Offline Pinstar

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Re: Spore Advanced: The wishlist V1.1
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2008, 04:22:55 pm »
From Master of Orion II: Planet construction.

Use up the materials from a gas giant and condense into a rock solid (and barren) planet. While this planet would always start as a T0, you'd basically be able to sculpt it form scratch to your desire.
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Offline Doomsday

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Re: Spore Advanced: The wishlist V1.1
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2008, 04:38:51 pm »
An Advanced Music Editor that allows you to better control the duration and tempo of a piece. As well as expands the range of playable notes. Maybe even give it a  "design around these notes" feature, in which the game will procedurally generate a piece of music around a user preset selection of notes.
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Offline Hobelhouse

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Re: Spore Advanced: The wishlist V1.1
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2008, 04:56:44 pm »
Civ phase:
More resources. A simple system would work; you'd have to modify it depending on Age in the tech tree, though. For starters, Food, Wood, Metal, Fuel, Gears, and Gold (money). Fuel would become vital in the Modern Age, until you discover a tech in the Future Age that lets you manufacture it yourself. Factories would take Metal, Wood and Fuel to produce Gears (to represent industrial parts). One could establish trade routes to trade for resources absent in your territory. Each resource would have a designable building to harvest it. Resource wars would be teh awesome.

Tech tree
. Dividing it into Ancient, Medieval, Modern, and Future (nano?) ages, each unlocking more effective units, structures, government types etc. Techs cost Gold, and one 'invests' a certain amount of gold into purchasing a tech each second of game time. One must buy 50% of techs in an older stage to start buying techs in the next one, but since they increase in cost there would not be much jumping.

To go with this:

Mount Editor - To create chariots and mounted units during civ phase. One chooses your creature and a domesticated one and can place 'saddles', platforms, carts, etc, much like in the tribal phase, and move the limbs around to hold the 'reins'.

More units. One could build defenders to guard against the pirate attacks, spice haulers to bring spice from colonies to the homeworld, fighters to protect them from pirates, etc.... it would take a lot of the babysitting off our hands.

Offline FalconNL

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Re: Spore Advanced: The wishlist V1.1
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2008, 11:25:45 pm »
Added suggestions from Hobelhouse, OpDDay2001 and Lurker28.

An equivalent to Pinstar's idea is already in the list.

SiestaGuru: would these change the gameplay in any way? We already have the philosophy system (Shaman, etc.). What would the different be between a logical and an emotional creature in, say, the tribal phase?

Offline SiestaGuru

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Re: Spore Advanced: The wishlist V1.1
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2008, 06:04:39 am »
I ment mainly for the ai, this settings wouldnt effect the player much if at all. Maybe it could give you a additonal superweapon but it would be mainly used to determine the ais personality. Currently it seems the behaviour is completely based on the creatures mouth.
A few possible variables:

agressive - a obvious one
protective - will the race respond very violently if the player gets close to a nest/tribe/colony.
logical - will the race make decisions based on what wuld be the best for the race (youre a threat to us) or will it decide things based on emotions (we dont like strangers, you gave us a compliment).
curious - will the race investigate visitors (like cows) and the surroundings or wont they care
scared - will the creature run away from danger (epics, strong creatures) or will they stand and fight (or whatever it is they were going to do)
greedy - how valuable will they consider gifts and bribes and is it focussed on getting cash/food or will it focus on things like military or expanding.
trustworthy- once a ally always a ally, or backstab whenever its possible.
expansive - how quickly will they try to expand in stage (and maybe in tribe/creature if they create a way to expand there)

Im sure there are loads of other possibiltys but you should get the idea.
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Offline FalconNL

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Re: Spore Advanced: The wishlist V1.1
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2008, 07:25:27 am »
Yeah, for the computer it makes sense and leads to more variety. Added.

Offline darkwanderer

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Re: Spore Advanced: The wishlist V1.1
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2008, 08:04:10 am »
in the space megastructures youve noted ****ake moon as an example, i believe this is still in the game as a planet that can be discovered as i think ive seen one in screen shots, and have also visited one on my friends game, if i or anyone else can find one to confirm?