Author Topic: Suggestions for changes to the game - discussion thread  (Read 32903 times)

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Offline Praetyre

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Re: Attn Maxis: Suggestions for changes to the game
« Reply #225 on: September 09, 2008, 05:15:10 am »
Indeed, but quite often, games like Civilization will state the scale (for example, I believe it stated 1 civilian/talent/drone equaled 10,000 on Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri). And reductionism is relatively easy in good doses, like Rome: Total War's regions. If you can have 1 tank unit with 10 HP being 10 tanks, I don't see why 1 creature in a city can't be 100, or 1000, or 10,000 for that matter.

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Re: Attn Maxis: Suggestions for changes to the game
« Reply #226 on: September 09, 2008, 06:00:06 am »
Personally I suggest three threads:
One with a list of suggestion that can easily and feasibly be implemented in Spore in the short term, i.e. kandalf's post.
This can be locked and stickied.
One discussion topic for short term solutions, i.e. this thread. Ideas from this thread can be put into kandalf's topic by him so that the Spore devs don't have to wade through page after page of discussion, but can get a quick list of what we would most like to have changed.
The third topic would be mine, with ideas for expansion packs or different games altogether. These are low priority, but can serve as an inspiration for modders or game developers. Discussion will occur in the same thread, and I will try to include most of the ideas in the first post for easy reference.

Just my two cents.

I personally don't see the need for three threads when they all cover the same things, suggestions on how to improve the game but everyone seems to think that it is important so I've taken those two posts back out and into their own thread again. Please let the topic creators keep them up to date and I hope everyone is happy now. I still don't have my game and I'm still trying to stay out of the Spore section as much as possible.

FalconNL's thread: http://www.gamingsteve.com/blab/index.php?topic=14317.0
Kandalf's thread: http://www.gamingsteve.com/blab/index.php?topic=14316.0

« Last Edit: September 09, 2008, 07:34:01 am by LadyM »

Offline Rusted

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Re: Attn Maxis: Suggestions for changes to the game
« Reply #227 on: September 09, 2008, 01:02:23 pm »
I still don't have my game and I'm still trying to stay out of the Spore section as much as possible.




!!!!

I'm showing you as having achievements?

Edit: Wait, you were at that conference, amazing what my frontal lobe can do when I ask it nicely.




possible suggestions mentioned in other threads for Kandalf's list:

Eyeglass hotkey.
Ability to move inventory items.
Possibility that allies help defend
 
« Last Edit: September 09, 2008, 01:13:48 pm by Rusted »
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Offline WeatherMAN

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Re: Suggestions for changes to the game - discussion thread
« Reply #228 on: September 09, 2008, 01:25:44 pm »
I know some of what I am saying has already been covered, but I figured I would add my voice so Maxis knows that many people wish to see the changes

(Some of it is reposted from the PC Games section of GS)

Cell: None really

Creature: Could use a more complete look at the food web including animals going out after their food source and not just sitting in a nest waiting for me to come to them

Tribe: Needs some deepening, I haven't played on anything but easy b/c I have only gone through one race and have been tinkering with space, but I am hoping on hard aggressive tribes take a heck of a lot more to be friendly than a gift and a song and dance... I want to have to basically decide to either cater to their every whim, ignore them and risk dealing with raids or exterminate them

Civ: There are so many things to create you it can really absorb quite a few hours if you make each and every vehicle custom for your race and well detailed. Though same thing for the tribe as far as hostile races needing to be much harder to please, again I haven't played on anything but easy (remedied soon)

Space: The best and worst phase all at the same time. I cannot express how frustrating it was *on easy mind you* that basically every time I left planet's solar system, pirates or some hostile race (hostile b/c I can't pony up the outlandish dough they want every 2 minutes). I am an experienced gamer, I am intelligent, I don't have a clue how a 12 year old noob is going to handle space on easy...I expect getting whipped up in Space on hard. That is what I want. I want pain and tears and choices to be made which could leave you easily in ruin. On easy I want *sandbox mode* I want to be able to tell other races I don't have the cash, they complain a little and go about their business and it takes some serious doing to make them angry enough to war with me (like attacking them!). Also, you should be informed of attacks, but if you have enough turrets in place you should be able to go about your business assured you will win except in really concentrated planet attacks and they should make sure their message conveys that either you don't need to come to their rescue or that stuff has really hit the fan. Also, the micromanagement needs to ease up a bit, spice should be shipped back to your main world (maybe for a price?) and you should have template colonies to sit down so you don't have to assign each one the same buildings in the same places.
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Offline SporeForSure

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Re: Suggestions for changes to the game - discussion thread
« Reply #229 on: September 09, 2008, 01:59:49 pm »
The wormholes (black holes) need to have some sort of delay before they activate. I have been sent back the instance i got through and had to take another trip (3 in total) through the wormhole - just to get one way.

If possible it would be great if you were slingshotted AWAY from the centre of the wormhole when you appear on the other side so you actively has to go in there again to be transported back.
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Offline ksl

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Re: Suggestions for changes to the game - discussion thread
« Reply #230 on: September 09, 2008, 04:30:42 pm »
About scale and realism: the whole planet seems to be about 20 square km. Unless all the creatures and plants are simply giants the size of a large city, then the planet's mass has to be beyond science fiction in order to have gravity relative to Earth.
It's not supposed to be realistic. Cells don't have eyes, let alone irises. Everyone seems to be asking for the space stage to be even more complex to fix the obvious problems, but I think it should be dumbed down to be more comparable to the other stages. Get rid of at least half the empires. Make colonies give a passive income ontop of the spice (I liked the trading aspect as it was, but you should make money for all your hard work when not actively trading), and fix the cries for help from the various suggestions already in this thread and the space stage is fixed and totally playable. You could do whatever you enjoy doing. Right now it's not complex or difficult, it's just an endless chore that chains you and forces your empire to stagnate very early.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2008, 07:30:23 pm by ksl »

Offline Praetyre

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Re: Suggestions for changes to the game - discussion thread
« Reply #231 on: September 09, 2008, 06:15:57 pm »
About scale and realism: the whole planet seems to be about 20k square km. Unless all the creatures and plants are simply giants the size of a large city, then the planet's mass has to be beyond science fiction in order to have gravity relative to Earth.
It's not supposed to be realistic. Cells don't have eyes, let alone irises.

If you are referring to my proposal, it doesn't aim to change the visuals much. You'll have the same number (roughly) of people visually, it's the stats that will be changed and the systems. And if someone comes up with a patch to remove cells with eyes, I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd download it. It's true Spore isn't developed on a realistic model, but stranger things have been done. People have made mods about Lord of the Rings in a game originally set in the Classical period. In fact, some people have made Sims-like RPGs out of Grand Theft Auto.

To me, at least, the fact a Roman legion has 6000 men in it is even more important than whether the Macedonian pikemen are using two handed pikes and the phalanx is properly arranged. Scale is a very important part of setting, and it's a lot more noticeable than more hard-to-spot visual things.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2008, 06:17:59 pm by Praetyre »

Offline ksl

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Re: Suggestions for changes to the game - discussion thread
« Reply #232 on: September 09, 2008, 08:00:42 pm »
I understand you, kind of like Civ. I guess if that's what you want to see you can mod it or just pretend, but it seems obvious to me that the Spore galaxy and planets are purposely on a scale of several million times smaller than the Milky Way and Earth.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2008, 08:13:14 pm by ksl »

Offline iis

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Re: Suggestions for changes to the game - discussion thread
« Reply #233 on: September 11, 2008, 07:17:49 am »
Hi, new poster here.

Second a bunch of the ideas here, just thought I'd add a few of my own:

Cell: good fun.

Creature:
Great fun making your creature, but the gameplay is so simple and repetitive it doesn't really reward repeated play.

Hunting or foraging for food should be a much bigger part of the gameplay - I don't think too many people would complain if it became more like cell stage in that respect. The ecosystem doesn't feel natural; in real life you wouldn't see all the animals keeping to their own nests - it would look better if they were more dispersed and mixed up. That's what I liked about the cell stage; the little tide pool feels so chaotic and alive with all the creatures chasing each other and competing for food.

Perhaps there should just be a small number of species that cover a whole 'area' - say an area that would now cover maybe 8-10 nests - and you have to establish your creature in that specialised niche, adapting to the other creatures there. So if you were a Lion, you'd have to catch a few Gazelles by yourself before the other Lions figured out how to do it and started catching them automatically. Maybe other carnivores show up and you have to fight them off, or all the Gazelles will be eaten and you'll have to migrate/find a new food source? Maybe once your Lions have carved a niche for themselves in one area you have to try to spread them elsewhere? Having a larger population and being spread over a wide and diverse area should logically increase your rate of evolution, so it wouldn't be nonsensical for overall progress and earning DNA points to be based on spreading your species around the world...


Tribe: boring boring boring. This RTS lite must surely only appeal to people who would like RTS's but haven't played any... If you've played a real RTS before, Tribe stage doesn't offer much replay value, and if you wouldn't like an RTS then you wouldn't like Tribe stage. They might as well make it totally different, maybe even take a few elements from the Sims?

IE, you focus on your own village more, with other tribes being a bit further away and not interfering so much (though you can interact if you want to, you'll have more chance to play around with your own creatures). An interesting feature would be some kind of behaviour/culture system.

For example, your creatures might be quite serious and disciplined, and work hard gathering food and building huts. Unfortunately, they're not very inquisitive and can't be persuaded to visit any neighbouring tribes. So you take control of your chief unit, decide to throw a feast to encourage them to let their hair down - you invite some of the neighbours around to make friends. This makes them a bit more open and curious, they start slacking off from work to play around with sticks, giving them a chance to invent new tools. Instead of controlling them all directly, you just control one unit at a time and influence the others, who can develop minds of their own.

Civ stage: A lot of previous posters have talked about overhauling the combat system. To be honest when I want to play a brilliant RTS combat system I'll load up Total War, what I want is a chance to use the lovely buildings I've designed in a meatier city civ. However I can think of a way to implement Civ where both sides are happy: you can choose whether to focus on being a mayor or a general. As a mayor, you work on your city(s), perhaps assigning AI generals to lead your armies out on campaigns, who might report back to tell you if they need any more resources to achieve their objectives. As a general, vice versa - you lead your forces out on the battlefield, leaving the AI in charge of your towns, badgering them to provide you with reinforcements. Or you can divide your time between both.

To make focusing on your cities a viable strategy, it should be possible to expand by building them up. As well as economically, you could create a powerful culture or religion and other cities will gradually convert to you (like in Civilisation III/IV). Or build up your population and flood your rivals with immigrants. You'd still have to build up your defences against more powerful civilisations, though.


The Behaviour system from Tribal can be extended to the civ stage to become cultural traits, leading to different game effects - this civ is expansionist and grows faster, this one is isolationist and harder to convert. If you have AI generals/mayors in your civ, their cultural traits partly effect their behaviour. And of course, there should be ways to alter or tweak your culture. Maybe similar to terraforming - instead of dropping a drought generator, you drop some psychedelic music and LSD, encouraging your creatures to stop the violent rioting and all just chill out. Dude...

Obviously I'd like to see some more building types, and different levels of them - ie farms/granaries/hospitals to help your population grow, libraries/universities/laboratories to improve your science. It could get a bit annoying having to redesign all these buildings, but it shouldn't be too hard to implement a 'find similar' feature, to find buildings of type x that use similar parts and textures to your existing ones. Or really, there's no reason that a library has to look different from a strip club, except perhaps for the different sign outside?

I think it would be good to have some sense of progress, but a tech tree would be too complicated and earth-centric - tbh I think the standard RTS technology system where certain buildings allow you to build more buildings would work fine. Build three marketplaces and a set amount of time later (faster if your science is good) you can start building banks.

Though I don't think having different ages that mirror earth's history is a good idea (aliens might have evolved quite differently, there's plenty of people who think the Romans or ancient Chinese could have had an industrial revolution, and then there's steampunk (and clockpunk and sandalpunk and stonepunk)), I do think the sudden jump from tribal village to fully fledged city with tanks is a bit abrupt. Perhaps you start the stage with just mud huts left over from tribal stage which you gradually replace. You can't build vehicles until you've built a factory which requires 3 forges which each require 3 workshops, or something like that. So you can still have bronze age tanks, but you've got to work for them.

Like I said though, I think the option to not have to focus on your cities should be there for those who want to warmonger.

Finally, I'd like a chance to actually see my cities that I've lovingly crafted up close; it'd be great if you could pause the main game, take control of a creature and wander the streets to see what it's like from ground level.

Space: What everyone else said, I just want to play around with terraforming etc before I'm getting attacked all the time. I enjoy strategy games, hell I like the fact that space contains a big empire-building strategy element, but I'd like some warning that it's coming, rather than being led to believe it's a big sandbox, sending me off on a few fetch quests to lull me into a false sense of security and then wham! hit me with repeated attack spams. Somehow it feels like cheating when my spaceship gets resurrected so often, even though I'm not.

Another small thing that I don't think's been mentioned but might actually get added; a way to search for planets and stars you've visited by name. This would help greatly with missions.


I'm not pinning my hopes on seeing Maxis implement some of these ideas anytime soon... Some of these are fairly ambitious so I guess this is more 'ideas for the kind of game I would make if I was Will Wright'. I would be interested in getting involved in modding though, I'm gonna start a Computer Science degree in a couple of weeks so it'd be useful practice... anyone know where I'd get started? Any good spore modding communities around?

Offline SiestaGuru

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Civilization stage suggestions
« Reply #234 on: September 14, 2008, 08:31:10 am »
Hi there, I thought of quite a few civlization stage suggestion since it seems to be lacking quite a bit, and wanted to be heared  ;) If anyone else has suggestions for the civ stage, don't be afraid and post them in here. These suggestions are obviously for expansion packs or patches that add features.

Now that I've said that its time to start suggesting:

Good well, altough civ is interesting and enjoyablethe first few times, it gets boring quite quickly. I think this is the case becausethe game doesn't really give you the fun you usually get from RTS games, most of the fun from RTS games (well for me that is) comes from outsmarting a equal or stronger enemy. Unfortunatly the civ stage in spore is missing out on two things, first: theres no need for outsmarting (its too easy) and there are too few methods of outsmarting. Ill try to adress both of these points in my suggestions.

The first point: The enemys are too easy. Some ideas:

- Since it will be too hard to make the ai actually smarter, there could simply be a new difficulty level (insane) which gives more bonusses to the enemy.
- If buildings and citys would be harder to destroy, then you wont be able to quickly destroy a few cities while the ai is doing things elsewhere, sure its possible but it will require alot more effort.
- Ai players should try to capture spice nodes more often from enemys, currently theres not much of a war going on over those spice nodes and its easy to obtain and defend half of the worlds spice nodes before even capturing a second city (f you have a coastal start that is).
- No super-kill-everything bomb... Come on, how lame is that?



Ok, now that the AI is alsot harder to beat (especially thanks to the new difficulty level) it is time for more outsmarting options.

- One type of vehicle per well... type doesnt allow much flexibility at all. All units are basicly of the same strenght aswell which is a bummer. So I suggest that every unit type there is will have 3 units below it, these are: cheap, regular and expensive, the expensive one will be stronger then the regular and cheap ones and the regular one is better then the cheap version. For every price you can choose a different vehicle from your sporepedia but it would also be possible to use the same vehicle for all price-classes.
A example for a military land unit (using the same base unit).
Unit type:         Cost:           Hp:         Attack:  Speed:     
Cheap              750             300         30         18
Regular            1000           400          40        24
Expensive         1500           600         60         36

Using this sytem youll be able to choose between a total of 27 units, which should be enough for most people. You can finnaly get that cheap, fragile but quick hit and run vehicle or the slow and expensive but deadly mammoth tank and use them both at the same time.

- Most RTS games use some kind of a rock-paper-scissors gameplay, where certain types are stronger against other types, sure spore can be different from those games but well the rock-paper-scissors will surely give more depth to the game and alot more flexibility and room for outsmarting. Heres how I propose it could work:
Currently, we have a single bar which gets filled by hp, attack and speed. I suggest a second bar next to it, which will contain citys, land, sea and air for military vehicles, and economic, religious or military for economic and religious vehicles. This bar is filled with the weapons/music things/shiny economic stuff, every weapon will get a secondary type which determines how effective it is against a certain type, rockets could be better against airplanes and cannons against citys for example. Together, all weapons will fill the bar and if you multiple types of weapons the vehicle will have multiple strenghts. A full bar of a single type could stand for a 50% damage,conversion or cashincome+economic conversion increase. So if the bar is split in half you'd have two 25% bonusses. This concept should be easy enough to grasp for casual gamers whove played the base game while adding alot of depth.
The military bonusses would obviously go into damage, the religious bonus would give a increase in conversion speed against the city type, and the economic bonusses could give some extra cash and a increase in trade-conversion speed.

- Firing distance could be added next to health, power and speed as a fourth type for the vehicles. With this, it would be possibly to create artillery, or other mixes of vehicles. This would need some heavy balancing though.

- The instant-spawn of vehicles is not only unrealistic, but its also hurting the gameplay imo. When a building time is added players would have to manage production more carefully and you wont be able to spawn 15 vehicles outside a city thats under attack. A production time would be a great addition.

- Houses have a secondary use, more vehicles, entertainment has one, a better defense against religion, but factorys have none. Combined with the suggestion about production times, factorys could decrease the building time of vehicles or maybe the cost if that suggestion isn't implemented.

- Cities arent that unique, they all pretty much do the same thing, therefore Id like to suggest adding a few buildings that will make every city a bit more unique, these are premade so the player wont have to create tons of buildings all the time.

Hospital: increases the citys healing radius and healing per second.


Missle silo (for military citys): Decreases the cost and cooldown of all military superweapons(red), will provide the player with the carnivores superweapon from cell stage if no cell stage weapon was available.
Broadcast tower (for economic citys): Decreases the cost and cooldown of all economic(blue) superweapons,  will provide the player with the omnivores superweapon from cell stage if no cell stage weapon was available.
Temple (for religious citys): Decreases the cost and cooldown of all religious(green) superweapons,  will provide the player with the herbivores superweapon from cell stage if no cell stage weapon was available.


- Spice nodes provide you with less spice as the game goes on, this is fine as long as new spice nodes spawn if old ones die. Currently the game comes at a standstill when all spice nodes are at 100 cash per minute. The spice nodes should be replaced and degenerate quicker and a bit random aswell for more flexibility in the game.

- Specialized turrets, add a anti-aircraft and a anti-land turret, both of these should do a bit more damage against well air or land units but should be unable to attack the other type.

- Aircraft available at 3 citys, youve pretty much won when your at 4 right now, aircraft wants to be a part of the game! Maybe well be able to see AI use aircraft more often then aswell.

- Expanding cities, there are too many small cities out there, mabe we could increase the amount of build spots by paying a nice sum of money.

- Changing cities, we can change a cities type when we conquer one cant we? Maybe they could allow changing a cities speciality for a good amount of cash.


I think changing all this will allow for a much more intresting game in which strategy could actually play a role. I hope some of you agree with me (and more importantly, Maxis) and that some of you have some amazing suggestions that would really make civ worthwile.



 
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Offline munchkin5

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Re: Civilization stage suggestions
« Reply #235 on: September 14, 2008, 08:37:21 am »
I agree with quite alot of what your saying, although unfortunately these aren't the kind of things people add in expansions, rather than sequels. Although some of the fixes to the way ai acts and spice node decay could be patched.

Offline Pixxel

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Re: Civilization stage suggestions
« Reply #236 on: September 14, 2008, 08:49:19 am »
These ideas are great and would make civ alot more fun.

Something I would like to add is:
More attack animations for military units. That glowing bomb animation is so boring.



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Offline SiestaGuru

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Re: Civilization stage suggestions
« Reply #237 on: September 14, 2008, 09:56:44 am »
These ideas are great and would make civ alot more fun.

Something I would like to add is:
More attack animations for military units. That glowing bomb animation is so boring.





Agreed, maybe this could be based on the type of vehicle the shooting vehicle is the best against, so a rocket or flak vs airplanes and so forth.
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