Author Topic: Seriously Injured Teen Tasered 19 Times by Police  (Read 6362 times)

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Offline Daxx

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Seriously Injured Teen Tasered 19 Times by Police
« on: July 28, 2008, 09:19:02 am »
http://rawstory.com//news/2008/Missouri_Police_taser_injured_boy_19_0726.html

From the article:
"Passing motorists called Ozark police out of concern for the teen as he walked along the busy overpass. When the police arrived, the young man was lying on the shoulder of the highway directly underneath the 30 foot high overpass with a broken back and foot.

Doctors believe 16-year-old Mace Hutchinson broke his back and heel after falling, as his injuries are consistent with such a fall. The boy's family does not understand why police would have tasered the teen 19 times after he was so seriously injured."

This comes just days after the story of a teen tased in Canada who died of a heart attack; the 22nd person since 2003 to die in Canada after being tasered by police:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080725.TASER25/TPStory/National
And just over a week after a taser was used on another teen for 37 seconds before they died in North Carolina:
http://www.wcnc.com/news/topstories/stories/wcnc-071608-mw-officersuspended.603fdb5b.html

I can't remember if we have another taser thread - if so it may be best to merge them if this is going to turn into discussion about tasers in general.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2008, 09:23:55 am by Daxx »



Offline Celdur

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Re: Seriously Injured Teen Tasered 19 Times by Police
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2008, 09:34:14 am »
i think we had the 'dont tase me bro' thread too

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Offline Uroboros

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Re: Seriously Injured Teen Tasered 19 Times by Police
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2008, 09:50:05 am »
I think the only other thread with taser discussion was that one with the loud, obnoxious student in a political talk.

Tasers are not a handy-dandy 0-800 "E-Z-Compliance" device. They should not be used as such, and security forces that use them as shortcuts as such are disgusting. The deaths caused by such usage, within reason, should be placed upon the head of the taser user. Outright banning taser usage is a bad idea in my opinion, but there has to be a far more clean-cut punishment for abusive use of 'non-lethal' weaponry. Tasers tend to escalate situations rather than resolve them, many who are tasered either become so afraid that they resist more, or become enraged from the pain, or the fact they were just attacked in a situation they may firmly believe required no action.

People have tried to reason that tasers are totally fine, because of this myth that no taser has ever been behind someones death. Of course, what they fail to realise is that the listed reason for death is "heart failure", due to stress, and the taser that was repeatedly used in the final moments isnt mentioned. The fact is, tasers HAVE been directly linked to deaths before, but only a tiny proportion of the ones they were directly involved in. Its a known fact that if a tasers barbs make the unlikely hit of landing in a specific area of the chest, between ribs, the shock can cause immediate distress to the heart. A quick google of "taser ribs" shows a good number of links, but here is one :
http://half-a-bubble.com/2008/01/18/can-tasers-directly-cause-ventricular-fibrillation-yes-they-can/

The thing that people tend to forget, is that just because something is non-lethal, it doesnt mean that it automatically means free usage to get easy compliance is a good thing. Do you know what else is non-lethal? A punch to the face. A wrenching twist of a finger. A kick to the testicles. Being tasered apparently hurts bad, but it just leaves small, hidden marks, whereas a large bruise just 'looks' more inhumane. Culture, etc. I have a similar view of pepperspray as I do with tasers. There is proper usage, and there is malusage. Having a chemical irritant blown into your eyes and face, also unsurprisingly hurts like hell. Again, being legally sanctioned to use something, doesnt validate the use of it whenever you feel like it. You can bet that if officers were legally allowed to give you a left hook if you were 'noncompliant', or wrench your pinky finger out of its socket because you were 'loitering' by standing outside of a school gate for your child to come out, there would be a lot of angry people.

And yet, its all fine to tase people with such shakey, shifting guidelines... with so rarely a legal consequence for blantant abuse. Posting summary now, because I have to go pepperspray a drive-through fast food cashier at point-blank range, because I -think- she short changed me, and its fine, because its "better than using bullets".

Offline /lurk

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Re: Seriously Injured Teen Tasered 19 Times by Police
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2008, 10:00:22 am »
Damn it you know those drive-through clerks is all packin'.

Why did they send cops instead of paramedics, anyway?
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Offline Legodragonxp

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Re: Seriously Injured Teen Tasered 19 Times by Police
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2008, 12:53:35 pm »
Well, modern tasers have recording devices that record how when and how long a taser shot is fired. The latest models even have cameras in them to record the event. When fired modern tasers also disperse a cloud of fine foiled paper with the serial number of the taser to avoid 'undisclosed' firings of the device.

They are not a solution to police brutality however, and the recording devices of such objects makes it far easier to pin down wrong doing that other methods. 19 times? I'm sure we'll be hearing more about that.

I think the taser is a good solution for subduing a suspect. Pepper spray can effect everybody involved and is not effective on some people. Physical wrestling can result in the injury of the officer (and the potential of a stolen firearm). Club/Night Sticks/Batons break bones and can cause major injury (in my Military Police training we sent three guys to the hospital by accident during our club training).

Tasers are another tool for an officer to use to get his job done. It allowed for another level of force without having to resort to deadly force. They are even developing a shotgun fired taser round with a range of about 60ft that will deliver a 20second discharge of electricity to the target. Now 20 seconds is a long time to be tased, but it is enough time for officers to move in and detain the subject.

A lot of this was covered under the 'don't tase me bro' thread. People have died after being tasered. There has not been a direct link to the taser and the death. People die when arrested from stress induced heart failure, tasered or not. Yes it is undoubtably questionable that there could be a link, the human body does not care of electricty running through it, but there is not a 'silver bullet of proof' that the taser is what caused the death.

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Offline Snake Plissken

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Re: Seriously Injured Teen Tasered 19 Times by Police
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2008, 01:07:04 pm »
Who were the idiots is what I'm wondering. They should have their asses fired from their job, hell they should get the taste of some shocks from a taser.

Offline Axelgear

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Re: Seriously Injured Teen Tasered 19 Times by Police
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2008, 01:10:25 pm »
This case sounds interesting to me. It would seem like the kid provoked the officers... A lot... And that seems to me an obvious enough reason to give him a zap. If you give a police officer reason to fear for his safety or the safety of others, no court in the world would say he is wrong for using force to subdue you. These officers clearly thought there was a threat or they'd not taze the guy.
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Offline Uroboros

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Re: Seriously Injured Teen Tasered 19 Times by Police
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2008, 01:38:28 pm »
Quote
These officers clearly thought there was a threat or they'd not taze the guy.
...19 times... whilst visibly injured/fatigued/whatnot.

Quote
There has not been a direct link to the taser and the death.
Apart from those times when people who were tasered, happened to go pretty much immediately into arrest. But no! It wasnt the taser, it was the heart failure/cardiac arrest/etc that killed them! Its like saying there is no link between firearms and fatalities, because it turned out that the people actually died of blood loss.

Quote
People die when arrested from stress induced heart failure, tasered or not.
People also die from from blood loss, being shot or not. That doesnt mean the bullet someone had lodged in their stomach wasnt at the immediate root of the fatality.

Even if a tasering wasnt the sole factor in it, it doesnt take a masters-degree scientist to see how repeatedly tasering someone will put an increasing strain on the body. Then consider the effect that fear has, and with repeated taserings and often being outnumbered, by people who seem to only want to harm you, panic, adrenaline, and for some, skipped heartbeats. Im not against the police having access to tasers, but im completely against officers who use them as a way to bitchslap someone into compliance. If an officer choses to escalate a situation, they cannot place the entire blame on the person at the recieving end.

I've seen videos of officers using pepperspray on handcuffed, compliant people, who were laid on the floor. I've seen a video of three officers beat a fat guy to death with batons, because when they kept beating him as he was lowering himself to the floor to lay down, and they kept beating him if he recoiled from a strike in the middle of him waiting to be cuffed, and in the end he figured they might not stop even after they finally cufed him, so he decided to get back up and try to run for help. I've seen a peaceful protester being tasered whilst they were on the floor, simply because they wanted a moment to catch their breath after the first tasering, before rolling over a bit more to put their arms behind their back. I've seen videos of people being tasered for 'resisting arrest' because the officer grabbed them by the hair and shoved their face downwards, instead of letting them comply peacefully.
(granted, none of these were in the UK...)

And im just waiting for someone to say "Well if they wanted it to stop, they would have stopped resisting". People act irrationally when they get struck, shoved around, yelled in the face of, have chemical irritants sprayed in their face, or get multi-tasered because they didnt comply as fast as the officer wanted. You're less inclined to trust yourself to someone after they have caused you sharp pain, or overstepped your personal boundry to slam/shove you into submission, where you would have gone peaceably.

This goes hand-in-hand with my reply to one of the "Most important questions you will have to answer" thread thing. I voted for police, simply because its a tough job. Its not easy. You have to deal with the worst element of society, between routine stops with well-meaning, compliant citizens. You get an automatic terrible reputation from the bad eggs that do stuff like taser injured kids 19 times, and people still rely on you to come running when they need you. Im all for the taser, but there has to be more clear-cut repercussions for maluse, and no more letting off the officers who do it totally scot-free.

"Gee, I didnt realise that if I repeatedly taser someone yelling for help and clutching their chest, they might be in trouble!"

In other news, I might try to get a patent for a comfortable internet-surfing cap, with an adjustable cushion over the forehead, to prevent those nasty facepalm bruises. Needs a name...

Offline Werechicken

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Re: Seriously Injured Teen Tasered 19 Times by Police
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2008, 02:51:30 pm »
This case sounds interesting to me. It would seem like the kid provoked the officers... A lot... And that seems to me an obvious enough reason to give him a zap. If you give a police officer reason to fear for his safety or the safety of others, no court in the world would say he is wrong for using force to subdue you. These officers clearly thought there was a threat or they'd not taze the guy.

Apparently he was incoherently mumbling threats, I'd imagine falling 30 feet and possibly breaking your back would do that. Even if he did make threats how the hell could someone who was that injured be considered even a remote threat!?

He probably was giving them a bit of hassle and the lazy buggers thought 'sod this' and went nuts with their tazzers.
What have you got against intellectual midgets? They're quite smart little guys as far as i can tell.

Offline Legodragonxp

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Re: Seriously Injured Teen Tasered 19 Times by Police
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2008, 03:06:09 pm »
This case sounds interesting to me. It would seem like the kid provoked the officers... A lot... And that seems to me an obvious enough reason to give him a zap. If you give a police officer reason to fear for his safety or the safety of others, no court in the world would say he is wrong for using force to subdue you. These officers clearly thought there was a threat or they'd not taze the guy.

Apparently he was incoherently mumbling threats, I'd imagine falling 30 feet and possibly breaking your back would do that. Even if he did make threats how the hell could someone who was that injured be considered even a remote threat!?

He probably was giving them a bit of hassle and the lazy buggers thought 'sod this' and went nuts with their tazzers.

Hopefully there is a dash-cam video from one of the cruisers on this. This has all the earmarks of kneejerk overreaction like the 'don't tase me bro' event. The newspaper article implies that the subject was obviously injured, yet officers had some reason to believe there was an issue. Adrenalin is a powerful thing, it is possible that there was a serious threat to the officers. I'll wait for more info.

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Offline Werechicken

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Re: Seriously Injured Teen Tasered 19 Times by Police
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2008, 03:33:43 pm »
If he had broken his back, adrenalin or not, the most he would have been able to do was crawl at them in a threatening manner.
What have you got against intellectual midgets? They're quite smart little guys as far as i can tell.

Offline Little

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Re: Seriously Injured Teen Tasered 19 Times by Police
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2008, 03:42:06 pm »
37 second?!?!?

Five seconds is enough to have somebody on the floor!
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Offline Daxx

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Re: Seriously Injured Teen Tasered 19 Times by Police
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2008, 03:43:12 pm »
If he had broken his back, adrenalin or not, the most he would have been able to do was crawl at them in a threatening manner.

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Offline Axelgear

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Re: Seriously Injured Teen Tasered 19 Times by Police
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2008, 08:38:38 pm »
If they had reason to suspect he had a gun, or a used needle, or a knife, r anything, they had reasonable suspicion.
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