Author Topic: Religious Cities - Will Wright comment  (Read 7716 times)

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Offline CosmicD

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Re: Religious Cities - Will Wright comment
« Reply #30 on: July 26, 2008, 01:29:11 am »
I see the religious aspect of  this game as a persiflage to how it's being done in the real world. So why shouldn't it not be in spore ? It's at least funnnier than sword fighting and holy wars or religious terrorism. COme to think of that, the black rain thing could also be seen as a very sarcastic persiflage to religious converting similar to jihad)

BTW old orders that followed the prophets from the bible's OT did astronomy very early on, so why can't science and religion be valid options in spore ?

Offline eleazar

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Re: Religious Cities - Will Wright comment
« Reply #31 on: July 26, 2008, 01:37:12 am »
I think Will's explanation is pretty good.
 
It is a very interesting choice...


The odd thing is that the civ game (more or less) acknowledges the reality of spiritual powers,
but in the spoiler texts all dialog in space of religious races seems to indicate that they are idiot zealots.

Stuff like:
Quote
* The wicked are aflame with demonic energy.  Destroy them all, but spare the Followers of Spode!

* Our holy cause has triumphed.  The Enemies of Spode are no more.  Praise Spode, and view your ~mission_rewards~

* Another species defies the Way of Spode by refusing our generous offer of conversion! These vile and wretched beings defy us! ~br~~br~The Will of Spode demands that these beings be reduced to their constituent atoms!  Will you join us in making war on these perverse creatures?


Of course it's entirely possible that these strings don't reflect the final state of the game.  But even so there's does seem to be something of a disconnect in how Spore treats religion in the civ stage and space stage.
There doesn't seem to be any corresponding feature to religiously converting cities in space.  Sure you can make lesser beings worship you— but that's different.


P.S. it never ceases to amaze me how many people think that increasing realism always makes a game better.  Sometimes it does, but more often it doesn't.

P.P.S "persiflage" = "light and slightly contemptuous mockery or banter."

Offline Hydromancerx

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Re: Religious Cities - Will Wright comment
« Reply #32 on: July 26, 2008, 01:39:20 am »
Yeah what fun would space be in there was no sound like in real life? I want to hear an explosion when i blow up a planet, not silence.  ;D

Offline Bellum

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Re: Religious Cities - Will Wright comment
« Reply #33 on: July 26, 2008, 01:43:42 am »
I fail to see the big difference between death rays and divine intervention. They're basically the same thing.


Personally, I think playing a race of religious extremists makes for interesting storytelling.

Offline Yuu

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Re: Religious Cities - Will Wright comment
« Reply #34 on: July 26, 2008, 01:45:23 am »
Seriously, the people who are complaining on that thread are acting like a certain group of people that play a game known as SSBB. ::)

Offline eleazar

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Re: Religious Cities - Will Wright comment
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2008, 01:46:23 am »
Also, oddly enough the ultimate religious "attack" is less "mystical" than the lesser two.

You can easily explain giant holograms (the ultimate attack) without any religious reality, but healing and a rain of diseased creatures are not so easily explained by the strict materialist.

Offline Len84

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Re: Religious Cities - Will Wright comment
« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2008, 02:10:34 am »
Also, oddly enough the ultimate religious "attack" is less "mystical" than the lesser two.

You can easily explain giant holograms (the ultimate attack) without any religious reality, but healing and a rain of diseased creatures are not so easily explained by the strict materialist.

Hehe, with some of the technological advances in SPORE (speaking for the creatures here) you could easilly say its just technology that does those things.

Its how you as a player look at it. Make your own story up :D
People that don't like them don't quite seem to have the imagination.

Offline KL0k

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Re: Religious Cities - Will Wright comment
« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2008, 03:09:07 am »
even in star trek were religious civilisations, even in the latest show ("enterprise") they had some kind of suicide bombers on the enterprise trying to conquer the ship so they could overwhelm their enemies (who were the "non-believers".. or .. "unfaithful".. however you gonna call it). so religion and science doesnt really split up at that point. there even scientist believing in the bible and saying its possible that something/someone could possibly changed the path of evolution on this planet. and if you take a look at all the old cultures, every single culture had something like a god, someone up the sky, as a guide, so you can come to the point of believing it.
it really depends on the point of view.
and for spore... i think this possibility is fun to toy around with :)
« Last Edit: July 26, 2008, 03:10:50 am by KL0k »

Offline greyarea

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Re: Religious Cities - Will Wright comment
« Reply #38 on: July 26, 2008, 03:14:52 am »
Also, oddly enough the ultimate religious "attack" is less "mystical" than the lesser two.

You can easily explain giant holograms (the ultimate attack) without any religious reality, but healing and a rain of diseased creatures are not so easily explained by the strict materialist.

Hehe, with some of the technological advances in SPORE (speaking for the creatures here) you could easilly say its just technology that does those things.

Its how you as a player look at it. Make your own story up :D
People that don't like them don't quite seem to have the imagination.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" can't remember who said that but yeah!  Obviously the religious fanatics at the top of the hierarchy are keeping the technology behind these so-called 'miracles' a secret from the general populous..

I would have preferred it to be culture rather than religion (so that I could play 'stalinist propaganda machine goes to space'  :D) but I guess it doesn't make that much difference.  The economic side could be viewed kinda-like a materialist culture/ideology (with a little stretch), just pretend the advertising superpower (for e.g.) is agitprop.
A gamingsteve sporecast :)  (not comprehensive at all!)
http://www.spore.com/sporepedia#qry=ssc-500012824849

Offline skewedjester

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Re: Religious Cities - Will Wright comment
« Reply #39 on: July 26, 2008, 04:35:56 am »


"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" can't remember who said that but yeah!

Arthur C. Clarke.

I have nothing else relevant to add to this conversation, really, except to say that I can't wait to play a religious race. The Book of Jester shall unite the galaxy!

Offline Veraal

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Re: Religious Cities - Will Wright comment
« Reply #40 on: July 26, 2008, 05:08:30 am »
i hope spore will be easily modable for the people who don't like this.

Offline Yuu

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Re: Religious Cities - Will Wright comment
« Reply #41 on: July 26, 2008, 05:13:54 am »
Also for the people who do like this.

After all, it is the purpose of SPORE, the ultimate sandbox. 8)

Offline CosmicD

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Re: Religious Cities - Will Wright comment
« Reply #42 on: July 26, 2008, 05:58:40 am »
i just call that intollerance. It's like, objecting to go to the same bakery as your sister in law goes whom you don't like :P

I kinda think there's a more simple way of not dealing with the religious fact of the game. Just don't use the tool.

Offline Lippy

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Re: Religious Cities - Will Wright comment
« Reply #43 on: July 26, 2008, 06:00:35 am »
The odd thing is that the civ game (more or less) acknowledges the reality of spiritual powers, but in the spoiler texts all dialog in space of religious races seems to indicate that they are idiot zealots.

Like Warhammer 40k?

And please don't post the spoilers.  Some of us have chosen not to read them yet.  Well, I haven't at least.   ;D

Offline rflagg

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Re: Religious Cities - Will Wright comment
« Reply #44 on: July 26, 2008, 09:25:37 am »
While I don't have anything specifically worthwhile to contribute to this, I'm still going to post if only to inflate my ego for a bit by talking amongst you geniuses here at GS... :)

From what I've seen in RTSes, the standard is to have 3 'sides' - I don't play a whole lot of RTSes mind, but it seems for simple balancing purposes the best way to go usually.  And, I think with the broad choices they made with economic and military, religious fits with these as well.  Will explained it very well, in that you can't take it too seriously.  If you look at Civ 4, which heavily featured religions in the early part of the game, the designers we required to nerf all the various religions so they all had the same benefits.  Even the smallest differences were argued over in the forums (why does Judaism have a faster expansion rate than Hinduism?  You guys hate Hindus!).  While there was a strong desire to make the religions different, even among the main audience who was to play the game, they had to be very careful to not upset any specific group.  Yet, the game featured holy wars and genocide in the name of religion if that's how you decided to play it.  And I don't think you'll find that because of that, millions of Civ fans suddenly became (insert religion here).  So, I think religion (as much as I personally am not a fan of it in our world) is such a significant part of our human existence - for better or worse - it should be part of the game as well.  And, I don't expect it to be modable, except for maybe changing the name of it (after all, you'd have to be able to change the animations for the plague and healing and all that, etc.).

-m.