Author Topic: Trusted Computing?  (Read 3881 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Arachoid

  • Tempest Top Dog
  • ****
  • Posts: 883
  • A new musical revelation...
    • View Profile
Trusted Computing?
« on: July 21, 2008, 09:50:30 am »
WARNING: This topic is mostly PC related, not really about games, but I figured PC gamers would know more than anyone else about this...

So I was reading Wikipedia's Windows 7 page (I'm pretty excited about this), when I got to the part with a big scary acronym: NGSCB, Next-Generation Secure Computing Base. Essentially, it allows Microsoft and other members of the Trusted Computing Group to take ownership of the Trusted Computing Module (and, so they claim, your computer) and tell you what you can do with it.

They can tell you how many times per day you can play certain songs, which programs you can use to play them, how long you can play games, to what you can read and write on the Internet.

As any American who can locate Kabul on a map (in other words, 3% of the population) knows, this is a terrible violation of our rights granted to us in the Constitution, particularly freedom of speech.

So what should we do? Go to Mac/Linux? Irradiate Redmond? Avoid 7 like the plague? Or am I just overreacting?  Please clarify.

P.S.
http://www.lafkon.net/tc/TC_HIGH_mirror06.html


I say NO! to all limits.
Unfortunately, I don't think we're far enough into the Civ stage to have deveoped into the 'Infinite-ghz processing' research tree yet...

Offline IamMe

  • Gorf Goon
  • ****
  • Posts: 810
  • +200 Points!
    • View Profile
Re: Trusted Computing?
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2008, 10:10:54 am »
Wait, I skimmed through the Windows 7 wikipedia page, the NGSCB wikipedia page, googled it, and watched the movie, and I didn't see or hear anything about them controlling how many times you can play songs or play games. I Ctrl+F'd the wikipedia page and there is nothing that I read about the above complaint.

Or maybe I'm just part of the 97% of the world population. :P

Can you show me exactly where you saw that?

Offline Andrew Ryan

  • Simon Belmont
  • *****
  • Posts: 5361
  • A man has a choice, I chose the impossible!
    • View Profile
Re: Trusted Computing?
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2008, 12:24:10 pm »
Sam here, I'm very interested in this.
"Don't worry 'bout me. I wouldn't worry about me. Don't you worry about me. Don't you worry 'bout me!" - Talking Heads, Don't Worry About the Government

Offline ArkServer

  • Battlezone Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 314
    • View Profile
    • Blushyface.com
Re: Trusted Computing?
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2008, 01:57:36 pm »
In a business way of view this can come in handy because you don't want employees to listen to music while working  or run/install software etc (although it can be restricted without trusted computing)

Offline Ultramarine

  • Bungeling Bay Raider
  • *****
  • Posts: 3278
  • Whatever.
    • View Profile
Re: Trusted Computing?
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2008, 01:59:31 pm »
In business maybe, otherwise I'd hate the thought of this in homes across the world.
The porn industry would dry up....

<_<

The goes all that pretzle porn...
Kid: Oh wow I'm being deflowered by a grown woman!
Mother: By the way I'm your mother
Kid: OH GOD NO

EDIT: That's where it becomes rape if you were wondering.

ヽ(`∇)人(∇`)人(`∇)ノ   (゚д゚; )

Offline Legodragonxp

  • Excitebike Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 3556
  • Now for some real user power...
    • View Profile
Re: Trusted Computing?
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2008, 05:26:41 pm »
Well, if Windows 7 is anywhere near as bad as Vista was ( or ME2 as we call it at work), I wouldn't want to have much stock in Microsoft.

As mentioned above, it would be a great tool for a businesses wanting to limit what people can do with their business computers. For home use, it would be another reason for people to just stay with Windows XP or go to something else. It will become a legal issue eventually with the FTC stepping in and forcing Microsoft to back down.

IMO: Something to watch, but not to worry too much about, yet.

-Lego

Offline Andrew Ryan

  • Simon Belmont
  • *****
  • Posts: 5361
  • A man has a choice, I chose the impossible!
    • View Profile
Re: Trusted Computing?
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2008, 05:32:41 pm »
I hope so. I don't want to inadvertently help Bill Gates and his plans for world computer domination.
"Don't worry 'bout me. I wouldn't worry about me. Don't you worry about me. Don't you worry 'bout me!" - Talking Heads, Don't Worry About the Government

Offline Arachoid

  • Tempest Top Dog
  • ****
  • Posts: 883
  • A new musical revelation...
    • View Profile
Re: Trusted Computing?
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2008, 11:58:12 pm »
Wait, I skimmed through the Windows 7 wikipedia page, the NGSCB wikipedia page, googled it, and watched the movie, and I didn't see or hear anything about them controlling how many times you can play songs or play games. I Ctrl+F'd the wikipedia page and there is nothing that I read about the above complaint.

Or maybe I'm just part of the 97% of the world population. :P

Can you show me exactly where you saw that?

Oh, I was speculating, but I believe I saw it someone. Anyway, it is completely possible; every action must be approved by the Trusted Computing Group before it is complete, so all they'd have to do is keep a log of what you've done.

And I agree that this technology would be very useful for businesses, military, or financial use (as in automated teller machines), but for your everyday consumer it just isn't right.

I'm just afraid that the general public, being largely ignorant to what goes on on their computer as long as it lets them download pictures and send email and check their MyWasteOfSpace and whatnot, will just lie down and take this.

If ever a time for a digital rebellion there has been, the integration of the NGSCB into the Windows kernel will be it.
I say NO! to all limits.
Unfortunately, I don't think we're far enough into the Civ stage to have deveoped into the 'Infinite-ghz processing' research tree yet...

Offline ArkServer

  • Battlezone Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 314
    • View Profile
    • Blushyface.com
Re: Trusted Computing?
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2008, 06:18:29 am »
Well, what about parents that want to limit their kids to just playing some games or use the internet?

Offline Daxx

  • Golden Axe Battler
  • *****
  • Posts: 8613
    • View Profile
Re: Trusted Computing?
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2008, 06:22:52 am »
Then they should be able to buy a piece of software that does that. Just don't tie it into the operating system and foist it upon everyone.

Offline IamMe

  • Gorf Goon
  • ****
  • Posts: 810
  • +200 Points!
    • View Profile
Re: Trusted Computing?
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2008, 03:13:54 pm »
Oh, I was speculating, but I believe I saw it someone. Anyway, it is completely possible; every action must be approved by the Trusted Computing Group before it is complete, so all they'd have to do is keep a log of what you've done.

Ah. Now I see.

Well this could be a problem. I guess boycotting would show them we don't like it. But then again, the 97% world population thing. (This includes just about everyone in my family (besides me and my dad), and all my friends and their family. :-\)
« Last Edit: July 22, 2008, 03:16:18 pm by IamMe »

Offline Andrew Ryan

  • Simon Belmont
  • *****
  • Posts: 5361
  • A man has a choice, I chose the impossible!
    • View Profile
Re: Trusted Computing?
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2008, 03:15:21 pm »
I beat some hacker is going to write a virus that disables the program or deletes it. At least, I hope so...
"Don't worry 'bout me. I wouldn't worry about me. Don't you worry about me. Don't you worry 'bout me!" - Talking Heads, Don't Worry About the Government

Offline Cow

  • Track and Field Jock
  • *****
  • Posts: 2475
  • Rad.
    • View Profile
Re: Trusted Computing?
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2008, 04:43:19 pm »
If they try to control what I do with my computer, then I'm going to go to Microsoft, locate the person responsible, and hit them with a sledge hammer until they fix it.

Offline Mr. Wizard

  • Karate Champ
  • *****
  • Posts: 3047
    • View Profile
Re: Trusted Computing?
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2008, 04:43:50 pm »
No, the opposite will be true. Some hacker will crack it and use that to collect information on people. Built in spyware.

Offline Tr0n

  • Dragster Diehard
  • ***
  • Posts: 341
    • View Profile
Re: Trusted Computing?
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2008, 07:18:33 pm »
As if Windows doesn't already have the means to track you.  The kernel is tied right into the TCP IP layer.  Why else have there been 90 some odd Windows updates since XP SP2.

Bottom line.  It's already been done.  It's just now becoming acceptable enough to drop it into Windows and give it a pretty acronym.  It's probably more for stopping piracy than anything else.  Not only can it tell you how many times you played Spore in a month, but it can read the registry and send your key to EA.

The computer world has never been private.  Make no mistake.  Since you plugged in an ethernet cable or configured a wireless card, you can and will be tracked.  I know, I work with corporate software that can track every letter you type and every click you press.  And this is the easy to use software, much less programmed into your system!

But in the end, it's not the guy who downloads the latest Kayne West CD on bootleg torrent sites that they're looking for.  It's the widespread contributors of child pornography and people who leak Half Life 3 that they're looking for (sadly for MS, this doesn't help much when you can't prosecute foreign abusers).  I'm more worried about the baseline ability to block installations or protecting an exe with the software.  If we though DRM was bad, this might be a whole new ballgame.

That said, it is a blatant violation or our rights as computer users and citizens of the US (and other countries)... but if you're on the straight and narrow, does it really matter?  The cable company knows when you watch Skinemax at 1am during free sample week.  Cell phones are largely digital.  Every call you make can be traced and recorded.  We're in a society where we gladly gave up our right to privacy and applauded anything that could let us sit on our asses more often and watch more American Idol while snacking on our cheezy poofs.  If society wanted privacy that much, broadband and cell phones would have to have been a fad and we'd all be in the computer stone age again.
Hey love crusader, I want to be your space invader
For you I will descend the deepest moon crater
I is more stronger than Darth Vapour
Obey me, I is your new dictator