Author Topic: SecuROM  (Read 54090 times)

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Offline SpaceOddity

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Re: Sony's secuROM
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2008, 06:32:47 am »
I would be very sad if Spore would come with SecuROM...  :'( I didn't play Bioshock because of it...
My PC is mine. Software that installs programs without my permission and will not allow me to remove it, is malware IMHO. Copy protection is OK, hijacking my PC to achieve it is not.
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Offline CelineSSauve

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Re: Sony's secuROM
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2008, 07:22:26 am »
I don't understand why people were thinking the game would come without anti-piracy content.  Almost every new release comes with it.
It's not that they have anti-piracy content, it is which one they decided to use.

So a crappy anti-pirate protection should prevent me from buying the game...

No chance in h... that is going to happend.

All games have some sort of anti pirate thing, and have not had problemst...well big tim with it.

and if the game is bought then it should not give any problems.
I bought a game before (can't remember name) and I got into trouble with the protection. It said it wasn't the original disc :-\
After replacing the original .exe with a no-cd .exe, it seemed to fix the problem and didn't have any nasty side effects with it.
And if someone's going to tell me that it's illegal to talk about it: No-cd's are legal as long as you own the original copy of the game :)
Thank you, Shadowgandor . That's what happens to some people with secuROM as well. I did mention that in my original post

Hmmm,
I wonder how legal this is ? In Europe, copyright protection software that damages or alters PC setups are illegal (Due to a courtcase against Sony, where the software would damage the hardware).
No one's sure, though enough outrage was raised on the Sims2 boards to force EA to post a complete uninstall for seruROM on their site instead of the partial which they originally put up which kept the software on the computer. But despite the fact that it contains "anti-piracy protection" if you get the game and it messes up your PC (not counting the $100s or $1000s you may have to pay to replace a drive or all the software you also legally had installed when you were forced to reformat) you're unable to return opened games to stores unless you want an unopened copy of the exact same game in return (or unless they're a recall, like the one to remove the hidden content in a game last year.)

Though, of course, once secuROM is removed, your PC may be safe from further/future damage, but you're unable to play your legally purchased game unless you reinstall it (and secuROM with it).

I would be very sad if Spore would come with SecuROM...  :'( I didn't play Bioshock because of it...
My PC is mine. Software that installs programs without my permission and will not allow me to remove it, is malware IMHO. Copy protection is OK, hijacking my PC to achieve it is not.
EA made the announcement, it will. Despite admitting that it causes problems on "a small percentage of PCs" they figure they got the money anyway so it's not their problem. (Sony also sidesteps calls about the issue apparently. This just makes me glad I've got more then enough Sims things to never have to buy more, but it makes me rather angry that I've now waited for Spore since the first preview and now won't be getting it...)


It is your choice though, and I can respect those who say it won't stop them from buying what seems to be a very interesting game (I'm still annoyed that they removed the water creature phase, because a blob coming onto land and then having to survive until you can get it proper limbs sounds off... or is that in the microbe part as well?)

All I can reply to those is "May the Die of PC Fate roll in your favour." I'm just glad that the community here is now informed on the issue (at least partly, as I said Google has much more information I have not posted here).

((Alternatively, http://www.amazon.com/review/R2DGV7ZTO8XFMK/ref=cm_cr_dp_cmt?%5Fencoding=UTF8&ASIN=B000PS1HNQ#wasThisHelpful  That is a review of Sims2 Bon Voyage which has secuROM (Maxi started putting it in from about Seasons onward). It is what finally forced me to inform you here, and it is filled with more detailed explanations then I could hope to give of the discussion, issues and (il)legallities in such software.))
« Last Edit: January 01, 2008, 07:25:48 am by CelineSSauve »

Offline happydan20

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Re: Sony's secuROM
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2008, 08:53:09 am »
I can speak for bioshock, works just fine without securom ;)

I had the same problem with tie fighter, I bought the game and couldnt get it to run because its so old, but a cracked version of the same game ran fine.
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Offline happydan20

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Re: Sony's secuROM
« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2008, 08:58:53 am »
Personally I the whole missing out on all the extra content will be copy protection enough, unless you're really talented and the stock creatures rock...

They could make some awesome editing feature a free download, anything to get people to use the server to validate the game.  Spore is unique in that you will really miss out if you get a cracked version and i think they should go with that, instead of intrusive copy protection.
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Offline nausved

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Re: Sony's secuROM
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2008, 11:48:04 am »
All games have some sort of anti pirate thing...

I use a Macintosh. Copyright protection software generally affects only PCs, not Macs. As such, copyright protection has never prevented me from buying a game in the past.

But there is a new Mac-compatible version of SecuROM, which means that the Mac version of Spore will have copyright protection.

Perhaps some PC users are used to having their computers screwed around with, and so it's not such a big deal to them. But I, for one, am not willing to jeopardize my computer for a game.

Offline SpaceOddity

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Re: Sony's secuROM
« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2008, 12:08:28 pm »
You're missing the point, I'm sure everybody here is fully prepared to pay for Spore. The point is that this newest SecuROM software is acting like malware, and I call that bad. If you de-install a game using it, it will persist. You need some serious PC knowledge to get rid of it. Don't be surprised if your virus protection software starts warning you for having it.
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Offline CelineSSauve

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Re: Sony's secuROM
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2008, 12:09:58 pm »
SecuROM is nothing new or particularly bad.
If you play games you probably already have SecuROM games.

here is a list:
http://www.daemon-tools.cc/dtcc/gamedb.php?letter=all

Baldur's Gate II (never gave me an issue) and Spellforce (which gave me several. Now at least I know what was wrong. Thankfully, it didn't kill a drive. I was lucky [and that publisher had good tech support].)

Spore is worth paying for just for the principle of supporting
the development of the creative and original.

Spore's not worth my PC though. No game is. I may still get the DS version.

Offline Gauphastus

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Re: Sony's secuROM
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2008, 01:32:13 pm »
Ohh, a list. Let's see... which ones concern me?
Diablo II
all the Hitman games
Empire Earth uses
Gothic 2 uses
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas
Hellgate: London
Homeworld 2 (I think, somewhere)
Sid Meier's Pirates
Warcraft III (but I might not have installed it on this machine yet)


So yeah. According to that Daemon Tools list there, these are all the games that have likely all thrown some version of secuROM somewhere on my computer.
Well... at any given point in the time, somebody is having some kind of problem with their computer. It's completely inevitable and highly likely given how many there are out there. I'm not saying it is the owner's fault, but the machine's.
There's a reason this stuff doesn't bother -everybody-. All I can see is that it inconveniences some people some of the time.
From what I've read, secuROM is nowhere near as potentially damaging as Starforce. That doesn't mean it's good, but it's just not that huge a deal.


In the early days with this machine of mine, the dual processors would overpower older games, making them psycho fast. These days, for some reason, they mainly stopped that.
I'd also get RAM errors, and very very rarely, a reboot. All that seems to have ironed itself out.
I haven't really had any problems since the beginning of this machine's life. That was all loooong before I got a single one of those games I mentioned.


Now I know you're not necessarily saying that every single person is in danger because of this shady software; it's just that you want everyone to consider the facts about it before it's too late, before they have to deal with some sort of bullcrap. That's good. I totally agree.
I'm just countering that, in my experience, I've not had a single problem with my machine related to anti-piracy software.

My only beef is that it goes right ahead and installs itself without your express permission. I hate this kind of crap, and I've always had a problem with it.
But you know what? If I can still play the game without any weird incidents, I simply don't care.
*shrug*

It may seem stupid, but the only way I'll join in on this anti-anti-piracy software bandwagon is if something bad actually happens to me.


Now in the meantime, if you want to make some kind of Spore secuROM boycott, feel free. I'll maintain my signature so long as it's not already too late to change it.
Otherwise, there's not really anything I can do to prevent the use of secuROM aside from maybe firing off some ill-informed emails.
Best I got at this point.  :-\
« Last Edit: January 01, 2008, 01:35:24 pm by Gauphastus »
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Offline SpaceOddity

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Re: Sony's secuROM
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2008, 02:02:14 pm »
My, aren't we touchy?  ;D

I just like to know what's going on on my machine, call it... ownership.  ;)
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Offline Gauphastus

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Re: Sony's secuROM
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2008, 02:06:14 pm »
Aw, he's just making fun. :P

I think there's a fine line between caution and paranoia though.
If I may ask, have you guys ever actually had a problem with secuROM that you understandably avoid it, or are you simply doing it to avoid even the slightest chance of risk?

I know computers can be (and usually are) quite expensive, so I completely understand your need to be protective.
"Ma all the gods of furious strong be with you as you crunch opposents, and live like a windrammer as you f**k."
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Offline SpaceOddity

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Re: Sony's secuROM
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2008, 02:13:46 pm »
Well, now that you mention it. Just a few days ago we have dumped the Vista from our newest PC (it came with it), reformatted the hard drive and installed XP on it! ;D

Seriously.
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Offline Spore-addict

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Re: Sony's secuROM
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2008, 02:26:01 pm »
lol so xp is better than vista in that sence...they are both controlled and owned by microsoft!!GG no Re

Have played grand theft auto san andreas and others...no problems

What can you do. Avoid the best game of the year....well likely ;-) because of that.

Destroying your comp...geez..a format cures anything, it cant overheat since all the hardware is under surveilance......

The chance of being hit by a car is bigger than this...has no problem in it.

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See you out there, feel free to comment my creatures.

Offline SpaceOddity

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Re: Sony's secuROM
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2008, 02:32:00 pm »
lol so xp is better than vista in that sence...they are both controlled and owned by microsoft!! GG no Re

Yes, although they both are from Microsoft, XP is quite a bit more transparent than Vista is. (If I understood your point correctly... ;))
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Offline Uroboros

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Re: Sony's secuROM
« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2008, 02:36:06 pm »
I dont particularly feel any threat from it. If you're concerned, put off buying spore for a week, and google for pages that might point towards possible issues. Failing that, its always a good idea to keep backups of vital stuff in your computer, whether or not you expect the worst to happen. If you have backups, a format is just an inconvenience that resolves pretty much everything short of hardware errors. And its normally a good idea to format at least once a year anyway...

I've always hated the "Dont be cheap, buy this to resolve the problem" responses, but it may pay off in the long run to invest in a DVD writer or a USB flash drive. You'd be hard pressed to find a CD drive that doesnt also burn CDs. I picked up a 1gig flash drive from a Tesco's (supermarket), for 15. Backing up the bare essentials of the things you want to keep, shouldnt be a big issue unless you're the type who packs a few hundred terabytes over several drives. Even then, you should have your smallest one as your system HD, so you can just reformat that alone. Its always a good idea to have backups, no matter the computer.

If I may ask, have you guys ever actually had a problem with secuROM that you understandably avoid it, or are you simply doing it to avoid even the slightest chance of risk?
Well, i've always had a love/hate relationship with my computers. Back before I knew anything more than the value of an antivirus program, my computers would have this random habit of rebooting, freezing, refusing to read CDs, leaving unremovable junk-files (0kb), and generally being a slow-death cluster****. Since I learned a bit more, the only real troubles I seem to have with my computer have been hardware related. I dont intend to turn a blind eye to anything that can cause my machine to go crazy again. Only game I recall directly killing my machine was "Koala Lumpur : Journey To The Edge".

Well, now that you mention it. Just a few days ago we have dumped the Vista from our newest PC (it came with it), reformatted the hard drive and installed XP on it! ;D
Thats more common sense than anything else. :P

Offline CelineSSauve

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Re: Sony's secuROM
« Reply #29 on: January 01, 2008, 04:03:05 pm »
Aw, he's just making fun. :P

I think there's a fine line between caution and paranoia though.
If I may ask, have you guys ever actually had a problem with secuROM that you understandably avoid it, or are you simply doing it to avoid even the slightest chance of risk?

Spellforce gave me minor issues (as in shutting down programs, messing with firewalls and the such but not flat out killing anything). That was an older version of secuROM (it I read that list correctly) than the practically beta version which was put on the Sims 2 and other EA/Maxis products in the recent past (Last October, or November if I remember correctly.)

Is this where to file a complaint about Sony SecuROM?  ::)

https://rn.ftc.gov/pls/dod/wsolcq$.startup

*smiriks* Could be, though I'm not sure if they'd care if they heard from non-Americans though. There are people who are contacting the BBB though about the issue of installing a product which runs secretly behind the scenes and has a chance (I don't care how slim) of destroying personal property without at least warning the user before hand.



For example. I have a game her which ran safedisk. It gave a full warning before hand and since that was with my older PC and I was already set to order a new one anyway I accepted the risk. But that was with a fair warning before hand.


I've always hated the "Dont be cheap, buy this to resolve the problem" responses, but it may pay off in the long run to invest in a DVD writer or a USB flash drive.

So you're saying... buy a spare? :P The point is that secuROM may cause DVD/CD burning drives to crash. I find it hard to find a drive that doesn't also burn in some form or another now days and as such would be safe from the possible crash.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2008, 04:06:15 pm by CelineSSauve »