Author Topic: Resident Evil 5 controversy  (Read 27140 times)

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Offline Krakow Sam

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Re: Resident Evil 5 is...racist?
« Reply #60 on: April 18, 2008, 05:16:15 pm »
I can understand how folks would be uncomfortable about it, but I really don't think it's necessary. There's no real proof of actual racism here, so why folks would work themselves up based around the mere possibility of it is confusing.
So whatever.

Yeah, you basically summed up my thoughts much more succinctly than I managed to.
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Offline blitzonator

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Re: Resident Evil 5 is...racist?
« Reply #61 on: April 18, 2008, 05:39:48 pm »
I dont get this whole train of thought.
Me neither.
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So let me get this straight people belive this game is racist because the Zombies are black?
Yup.
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So I guess the other Resident Evil's were racist because the Zombies in that one were white as well?
No, cucacions are basically the medium.
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Give me a break it doesnt matter what skin colour they are just **** off already. I swear people just look for **** to complain about.
You have bad grammar. I'm complaining like a wuss. Waa.

I just hope these Idiots win a darwin award each.

Offline Hizzah

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Re: Resident Evil 5 is...racist?
« Reply #62 on: April 18, 2008, 06:02:02 pm »
All right...of course it's ridiculous and everything, but for all the white guys out there, aren't you at least a teensy bit uncomfortable watching the gameplay footage? I mean, it's probably that whole "white guilt" thing every Caucasian seems to be born with nowadays...But at the same time it was almost kind of empowering   ;D how's that for racist, eh??

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/03/26/check-out-some-brief-resident-evil-5-footage/


Offline B.A.S.

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Re: Resident Evil 5 is...racist?
« Reply #63 on: April 18, 2008, 06:08:35 pm »
Nope cant say I feel the least bit empowered, im not born with that White Guilt thing anyway. My family that I know of had nothing to do with the Slavery that went on during those times. Infact im the first born Canadian in my Scottish Family.
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Offline Kcronos

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Re: Resident Evil 5 is...racist?
« Reply #64 on: April 18, 2008, 11:09:33 pm »
It's in Africa, right?


People in Africa usually have black skin, am I right?




So technically, it would be racist if they didn't have blacks.
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Offline Yannick

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Re: Resident Evil 5 is...racist?
« Reply #65 on: April 19, 2008, 06:36:23 am »
Oh no, black people in africa? NO WAY!


The very fact she thinks black people can't be zombies is racist.

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Offline Gungnir

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Re: Resident Evil 5 is...racist?
« Reply #66 on: April 19, 2008, 09:58:30 am »
Hmm..I thought it was haiti....Oh well.

Offline J-Caizer

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Sorry for making another thread for this, but I think you people need a heads up over here in understanding what's going on.  I've gone through this discussion on a couple other boards and then came over here to see what Steve's people thought.

I have to say, I was pretty shocked and disappointed at the replies I saw in that RE5 thread.  Someone even posted up a pretty racist cartoon in there.  I don't post here ever, I listen to the show, but I always thought the GS forums would be more intelligent that that.

Anyway, got a video and some quotes for you to explain what all is going on with the RE5 Controversy and why people are offended.  And it's NOT that we think the game is racists.

Resident Uncomfortable... please click.....link fixed!

Where once this poster didn't get what was up, after watching the above he had this to say....

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I just watched the video myself, and I have to say that it put the whole issue in better perspective. I never really liked Adam Sessler before, but he's a little bit cooler in my book after that, kudos.

I think what had the most effect was just his first statement about the game itself, "mowing down row after row after row of Africans." The fact that he makes it known that we're talking about Africans in Africa, as opposed to "black people" (which I think might have been a cause of some confusion in this topic before now), coupled with the actual footage from the game (which I hadn't seen) definitely allows me to see how some might feel, well, uncomfortable in regards to RE5. I have to say that I myself am still not entirely opposed to the idea, as I think a zombie story in a place where things like voodoo and disease is prevalent and makes for an interesting premise (kind of like The Serpent and The Rainbow), but from what the game clips show, it's just a guy killing 3rd world people in a 3rd world country, without making use of any of the aforementioned interesting concepts. While I don't think this is any more offensive than RE4 painting Eastern Europeans as bat****-crazy, bloodthirsty villains (some of which weren't even zombies) at a basic level, I agree with what Keith says about it being too true to life. Maybe if there wasn't so much still going on in hotspots like Africa it would be different, but it kind of looks like something you'd see on the news, and without the full moon, the tombstones, the organ music, and the eating of brains, it was a little too "extermination" and not enough "survival horror"; it's an interesting idea, it just isn't really necessary. I can see how Capcom is trying to break some new ground as far as locale; the city outbreak has been done to death, as has the underground, the chemical facilities, the military bunkers, etc. Even countryside locations like RE4 have now been explored. A desert/jungle location is a logical next step and frankly a pretty neat idea, but really, you play the game because you want to kill the **** out of undead flesheaters, not Africans. They could just as easily have set it in a fictional country, or an unnamed one with a little less resemblance, and it would have the same effect.

I haven't really changed my stance, but after seeing this video, my posture has altered.

Here's another good one...

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I'm not saying, wouldn't say, and haven't said I blame any current people for atrocities that happened for 500 years.  I don't think anyone in the gaming community who's offended by RE5 does or would.  What I would say is that the effect of five centuries of that and having it only ended about 4 decades ago can have a pretty strong effect on the present and how a race of people are still trying to rise up from that past.  That includes being sensitive of pretty offensive imagery.  And I don't mean "overly sensitive", I mean "rightfully sensitive." And no, I don't seek out to be offended.  I don't bring up the past because it's fun, want attention, or any of those kind of reasons.  That's not bull****.  It just... is.

I, nor any black person I know wants to make a competition out of "which race suffered more" or "we're the only race that's suffered in history."  I find that notion pretty insulting and inconsiderate.  It's not a dark spot in history, it's about 90% of American history.

As someone said on my board, the depiction of Spaniards wasn't exactly flattering, but the overall world presented in RE4 was far more horror/fantastical.  Full moon, music, grave stones, castles, and so forth panted RE4 with fun gothic horror imagery.  It wasn't even close to being realistic.  It was a classic ghost town.

RE5 on the other hand is more realistic, there's no horror dressing anywhere other than to make the Africans themselves look pretty gorram angry, ugly, and savage.  And that's just not cool to me.  At least so far as we've seen in the trailer.

I'll probably say for the thousandth time this thread alone, but it's not simply because they're black.  I have no problem with that.  But you draw blacks/Africans like they're drawn in RE5 and acting they way they do and you're going to disgust a certain group of people and be offended.  Sure, all RE games are creepy and scary... but not like how RE5 is.  I find the game more disturbing and offensive to how the developers choose to make Africans look in what's suppose to be a fun game.

While COD4 and other war games do leave me uncomfortable, I guess the reason why people aren't as offended is because they're fighting against trained and armed combatants.  Therefore you're sorta on equal footing, as opposed to having fun hauling off and punching a starved, angry and ugly African in his or her face.

Another guy had this to say..

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I think Croal's point is that there are certain images that carry weight. Like it or not (in this particular instance), that weight won't be the same for white folks as it is for blacks. There isn't a cultural **** fest in my white boy cultural past that gets pinged every time I see certain sets of images. But I CAN see a black person looking at those random images in RE5 and getting..well...some sort of dark feeling in regard to images that could very well be taken as referencing a very, very dark and uncool part of their races' past. Whether or not you were there or experienced any of it is irrelevant. It's a reminder, a hearkening. It makes you feel something. Croal seems to be saying that you have to take that into the equation and on that I agree. Where Capcom failed in this regard is that they gave no context. And no, saying that it's set in Africa isn't proper context in this case. They simply put it out there as a "game" and I'm not sure that was the best idea. We're all not sure what Capcom is doing with these particular designs or situations and without that, we're left to our own interpretations. With the strong imagery that's portrayed there, it's no suprise that some folks don't like it.

I think that the point is simply to recognize that, when any strong images that evoke a human emotion are being used, there is a responsibility on the part of the creator(s) involved. It's the same responsibility that Ken Levine had when the images of killing children had to be involved in the plotline to Bioshock. The fact that he put that HORRILBE idea in a context that made it even remotely palpable shows that he did it right.  And I STILL didn't like it. If Levine had simply shown a clip of a first person shooter where you kill a child, with no knowledge of story, context or place, the father of Rowan Hilden would have been ready to tear some developer heads clean off.

I think Capcom would do the whole gaming world a favor by shedding some proper light on this whole subject.

There's more and I can point out the threads to you if you want, but I hope this helps.  I always thought the Gaming Steve Community would be the cream of the crop and better than what I saw in your RE5 thread.  Here's hoping this brings the proper perspective to what's going on so that you guys can continue forward with intelligent conversation and better understanding of the actually issues at hand.

Double Post merge:
Shoot... I kinda made my post it's own thread because it really should be seen here.  It being buried in this thread, a lot of people are going to miss out on it having already weighed in on what they think and missing the real point.

I really don't like it associated with this thread as even the thread title is misleading and pretty much the opposite of my above post.

If the above can be moved back to his own thread and title, that'd be awesome.  If not... it's a real shame a lot of people that need to see it in the Gaming Steve forums aren't and will just continue on thinking that the problem people have with the game is that it's racists...... which we don't think and that's not the problem.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2008, 02:54:20 pm by J-Caizer »

Offline Gorman Conall

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Re: Resident Evil 5 controversy
« Reply #68 on: April 20, 2008, 08:55:51 pm »
Was residential evil 4 racist for having almost all Spanish zombies? no..well then its not racist because resident evil 5 has almost all black zombies case closed end of story.

Do you know what they would call a game with a black guy  mostly slaughtering beating and robbing almost all white people?.

Grand theft auto san andreas Game of the year.

Even though that was sarcasm I'm not to far off.

My best friend (who is black) would likely have a good chuckle about this if i showed him.

Offline PatMan33

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Someone even posted up a pretty racist cartoon in there.  I don't post here ever, I listen to the show, but I always thought the GS forums would be more intelligent that that.

*off topic warning*

Sorry the picture offended, but don't expect me to take it down because it wasn't to your liking. You know what, it's racist; you know what else, it's true. As a white male in America, I've got a pretty tough time of it when it comes to the discussion of racism. No matter what I say I'm a racist, so you know what, forget it! White people are racist against black people, black people are racist against white people, everyone hates each other. The laws and systems in place favor wealthy white people, but they also give unfair advantages to poor black people. Shoot, is that a bitch or what?

But you know, screaming and yelling and pointing fingers at each other isn't going to fix any of that stuff. We all have our own issues to work out as well as joint issues that need to be solved together. Right now though, I guess we aren't ready to do that so the racism will continue, and the unfair practices within the system will not cease... but you can bet that I'm still going to talk about it. After all, not talking about it is the worst thing you could do.

Believe you me, I'm racist, I admit it. But don't you dare call me intolerant or discriminatory because that just isn't the case. I'm reaching for that rainbow, but I tell you, I have a feeling that I won't see the day when this kind of stuff is a thing of the past.

Offline Gorman Conall

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Re: Resident Evil 5 controversy
« Reply #70 on: April 21, 2008, 01:38:46 am »
Its pretty common knowledge to most i would think that the comic pat posted is true.

1: People don't talk about it for obvious reasons.

2: Some refuse to accept it.

3: Some are just plain ignorant.

I grew up in a primarily black area. I also have visited many many almost completely black towns. I have had to accept facts about the black population in general both good and bad. If i or anyone dares mention a bad one we are declared racist. The thing is however is theses bad *facts* have nothing to do with the fact that their skin is black. It has to do with culture society and where and how they are lived and raised.

My best friend is black and many of my close friends are. But you know what? You can tell a huge difference between them and many other black people. Why? they were raised in a different area with a different social culture. Nothing bad or even good for that matter is inherited due to skin color.

White people are not immune to it. I know white people who have those (I'm trying to be politically correct here) bad facts too. They were raised in that social culture its just the way it is.

Now I'm not racist at all and i will bring up multiple dictionary quotes if i must. But pats comic is so true it stinks and from the time i heard about resident evil 5 i knew this was going to happen. Once advertising starts i wouldn't be surprised it a riot or two breaks out and the game ends up banned in America. I just don't see the African American community letting this slide by when they see commercials of a white man killing a bunch of black people.

I don't consider you racist Pat. I doubt you *hate* anybody for skin color or such. I just consider you open like me. Don't get offended though I'm not saying you and i see things 100% the same. I'm just saying we both accepted facts that to be blunt are quite obvious to everyone and we aren't afraid to say it.

Offline Yuu

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Re: Resident Evil 5 controversy
« Reply #71 on: April 21, 2008, 02:34:42 am »
               Besides, they're not people anymore. They're zombies. And zombies kill people, who usually want to survive.

               Some people can't seem to grasp that point of view.

               If it's ever discriminatory, it's towards the world's population of zombies.

Offline J-Caizer

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Re: Resident Evil 5 controversy
« Reply #72 on: April 21, 2008, 05:21:52 am »
Was residential evil 4 racist for having almost all Spanish zombies? no..well then its not racist because resident evil 5 has almost all black zombies case closed end of story.

Do you know what they would call a game with a black guy  mostly slaughtering beating and robbing almost all white people?.

Grand theft auto san andreas Game of the year.

Even though that was sarcasm I'm not to far off.

My best friend (who is black) would likely have a good chuckle about this if i showed him.

My above post explains the problem with RE5.... and it's not that it's racist.  Even explains the difference between RE4 and RE5.

It also points out that the problem isn't "a white person shooting black people."

Thought I'd give it a go here.  Hope someone gives my post a read and sees what's up.

I get the feeling the GS forums aren't for me.  I have to say..... some of the posts I see in this thread are pretty.... disturbing.

And if it was as simple as knee jerk racism, San Andreas would be getting the same treatment for glorifying all the worst aspect of black culture.

It's about each individual's point of view and context, guys.  If a cop were disgusted and appauled by San Andreas, would you tell him to shut up and stop calling everything racist or would you understand that since he tries to do right by his city, has friends that might've been killed in action, that he would be offended by how negatively the police are portrayed in the game and that it's part of the "fun" of killing cops in the game.

It's not that RE5 is racist.  It's historical context for black people who have close family members that have experienced real racism and that the imagery evokes discomfort and disgust.  It's about the dipiction of Africans for a "fun" video game experience and the shooting of and hauling off and hitting starving Africans, some of which dont' really seem to be infected to me.

The difference between this and RE4 is that the atmospher in RE4 is just.... horror fantasy.  Full moon, music, tombstones, groaning in the night and so forth.  It wasn't depiction of hispanics looking like dangerous savages.  It was a classic ghost town that brought fun to it.  RE5 *looks* like a starving African villiage where the people are drawn as monstrous and ugly as possible.  Most, if not all of which don't look zombified.

It's not as simple and straight forward as you guys think.  It's not racist or made by racists, but it is pretty damn offensive.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2008, 07:33:04 am by J-Caizer »

Offline Gorman Conall

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Re: Resident Evil 5 controversy
« Reply #73 on: April 21, 2008, 09:19:33 am »
Do you know how many games i can name right now that are offensive to some people and sometimes a lot of people. How about movies? music? books?. I can list a lot if you want me too.

If you think the posts you have seen here are disturbing then you must be brand new to the internet. The posts are not disturbing you just happened to disagree with them.

« Last Edit: April 21, 2008, 09:22:58 am by Gorman Conall »

Offline J-Caizer

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Re: Resident Evil 5 controversy
« Reply #74 on: April 21, 2008, 10:14:55 am »
Not sure I'm seeing the connection of how many offensive things there are in the world and what I said... but you're right.  There are a lot of offensive things in the world.

And I've been through this discussion in several places.  This is the first one I've seen that's gone on so long with just... nobody stepping up to clue the thread in on what people are actually taking issue with on the game.  Just rampant belittling and making fun of racism with a racist cartoon to boot.

On the GS forum, which I found surprising and disturbing. 

I've been to one end of this internet to the other, and have seen some horrible things.  This by far isn't the worst I've seen, but I do most definately disagree with the majority of this thread.  It's just unexpected given what I thought one would see in a Gaming Steve forum.