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Messages - Glubags

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Spore: General / Re: not to be a downer but.......
« on: August 12, 2005, 04:42:50 pm »
It's not that we're obsessed with rolling creatures... in fact, I'm sure most of us have higher priorities... it's merely a good idea and we're all offering our opinions/support/criticisms, whereas you simply say, "No, that's stupid and it's not in the game because it's stupid and if it is well I'll just shoot them because they're dumb who wants that anyway my creature will be part dinosaur part battleship all kickass masculine powerhouse giant mother f'ing son of a huge mother f'er."

1. The spine is fexible, there is nothing to stop the game from uncurling the spine in order for the legs to touch the ground instead of constantly "falling" onto the next leg. The spine may spring upwards when the leg it is attached to is not touching the ground.
That's true.  The "Willosaurus" as I see it called practically uses its spine as a weapon.  It's tail is very flexible in all directions, and thus we can guess that the spine will behave the same way... just as it should.  When at rest, the Willosaurus always defaults to its original editor-dictated shape... so I'm thinking along the same lines that you are.  A rolling creature configured like the one in my picture above may have more than one foot on the ground at once, flattening a portion of the spine as it rolls, resembling a nearly flat tire.  Then again, it might uncurl itself completely and move as an inch worm would, only curling itself up to its default shape when at restl.

Obviously, I'm hoping the latter isn't the case... but even if it were, it'd still be badass.  In fact, I'd never thought of uncurling it and seeing how it moves until typing this.

Spore: General / Re: Spore Cursor
« on: August 11, 2005, 03:42:46 pm »
IconForge looks a hell of a lot better... but I like working with older utilities. I guess
it's because it captures the feelings I had when I first got my own computer much
better than newer apps do... and on top of that, it's challenging.  ;D  Otherwise I
get bored very quickly.  Hand drawing is always fun, though.

click to see what I'm working with

Spore: General / Re: Spore Cursor
« on: August 11, 2005, 03:22:07 pm »
An old dinosaur of an app called Icon Collector Graphics Editor.

Spore: General / Re: GDC demo, perhaps new info?
« on: August 11, 2005, 02:28:40 pm »
I was watching the GDC video again today.... I couldn't help but notice when the spear guys were moving over to the firepit, for about a second I could see a willosaurous play with the clay pot.  If I didn't know better it appeared that he pulled up on it and it looked elastic like he was making it longer.  It's possible the willosaurous was making pottery, or it could have just been me misinterpreting what I saw seeing as the video isn't hi rez and I didn't go for a replay.  But if so, definately cool.

The one on the far right side?  He keeps walking back and forth between what looks like some sort of resource dump and the clay pot, picking up a ball of whatever resource and carrying it over to the clay pot, dropping it in each time.  If you turn your volume up, you can hear an affirmation chime each time the creature puts an item into the clay jar.  Very cool object interaction, but what could be the purpose?  Food storage, maybe?  Building a maintainable surplus rather than keeping it out to rot?  There are so many things this interaction could be accomplishing and too little known about it to make an educated guess... but simply from the way it looks, I'm betting on food surplus.

Spore: General / Re: not to be a downer but.......
« on: August 11, 2005, 02:20:22 pm »
I understand that everything is procedural, I did watch the demo, but just because it is procedural can I reasonably say that if i make a creature with huge flat feet that it can walk on water? No it wont because it is a game not real life.

Well, considering that the game already simulates fluid dynamics, that could very well happen.  If they simulate buoyancy and/or displacement and/or surface tension, then all you'd need is a light creature that can move its big flat feet fast enough.  Perhaps walking on water isn't within natural bounds, but running short distances certainly could be.

Again, only possible if buoyancy/displacement/surface tension exist.

I'm not necessarily expecting it, but with complex fluid dynamics, those characteristics don't seem completely unattainable.

Spore: General / Re: not to be a downer but.......
« on: August 11, 2005, 01:26:42 pm »
*high fives deeplee*

We ridin' spinnaz.

Spore: General / Re: not to be a downer but.......
« on: August 11, 2005, 12:33:52 pm »
Morgoth, the main thing to understand is that there isn't really anything "in the game" in the sense that you're talking.  Everything is done procedurally.  All of the behavior emerges from rule sets.  What this means is that anything the player builds will work.  The degree of efficiency is what's in question.  After studying the way the creatures in the video walk, I'm pretty sure I understand the walking dynamics so far. 

1. I'm certain that parallel legs always alternate.
2. Any legs secondary or tertiary to those fall within the sequence of alternation (within the period of time from one parallel footstep to the other).

For example, Buttface's "legs" on his legs are secondary to the main legs to which they are attached.  If you watch the video, you'll see that they both secondary legs move within the footstep delay of the main legs to which they're attached, and the secondary limbs themselves, being parallel to one another, actually alternate their stride as well.

An example of a tertiary limb would be Wright's tripod creature's front leg.  When that creature walks, the front leg hits the ground right in the middle of the two parallel legs' footstep delay.

Keeping these legs within the spectrum of the main legs' steps will ensure that the animal stays balanced.  What I really want to see is whether or not an off-center tertiary leg will still operate at the instant exactly between the two parallel footsteps (thus causeing the creature to walk on a curved line), or if it will adjust it's timing to favor one side of the footstep spectrum in order to walk a straighter line.

And yes, rolling creatures would be limited, but their locomotion is the focus--not their limitations.  If I successfully evolve a creature that rolls, I won't care how much it may or may not suck with a weapon.  I mean, who cares?  The freaking thing rolls! ;D

Spore: General / Re: Spore Cursor
« on: August 11, 2005, 11:33:55 am »
Hah... I made my some Spore cursors yesterday.  ;D

I'll get some pictures up and put them here, since it seems
like a better idea than having two Spore Cursor threads.

Edit: Ok, here we go.  I did only these four yesterday.
I'm still unsure if I'll fill out the rest of the cursor roster.

I suppose they're a bit brutal.  :P
And of course, the spear tip is the hot spot.

Spore: General / Re: not to be a downer but.......
« on: August 11, 2005, 11:31:04 am »
i am not saying it isn't possible but i dont think it will be in the game. Ok lets take an example you make a little cylinder like creature. it has a head at the front and a tail at the back. It has four legs on its bottom side like a regular earth animal. So does this mean that i simply have to stick a pair of legs on its back and it will filp over to walk? Also rolling wouldn't work for game mechanics. Where will you put the mouth because to move (no matter where you place the mouth it will be turning all over the place. So how will your creature bend down to eat. You have to put a grasper on your creature or how will it hold a weapon. If you put the hand and arm on the sides of your creature dont you think they will turn. So your weapon will be spinning around. Its not gonna be like you are gonna have the center of the creature stay in the same position while you have wheels on the side. Thats not how its gonna be. Every part of your creature will be spinning around. So i have no clue how you think it would even work.  ???

Your imagination is terribly limited.  :(  Terribly.

First of all, no, if you put a pair of legs on the back of your animal, it's not going to automatically flip over to walk.  The generated walking animation most likely won't use a pair of legs on the creature's back when it already has four firmly planted on the ground because it's not efficient.  Lining a circular body with legs, however, provides an efficient way to roll.

And second is... eating? Piece of cake.  Remember how many mouths "Tweety Bird" had?  A rolling creature could have multiple mouths to be ready at any position.  That's just one of many ways to solve your second "problem."

Third, what makes you think that graspers are absolutely necessary?  And weapons, for that matter?

And lastly . . .

also your theory is not true if you place another leg on the little hoppy guy he would probably stretch out his front leg and pull the back one to meet it then repeat.

. . .did you even read the bottom of the picture?  Limiting the bone structure (using the single joint leg type) and placing it laterally as shown will keep the animal unable to "stretch out and pull."  The natural imbalance of the creature's weight will, however, cause it to fall forward, at which point it could hop onto it's front leg and hop again to level itself out, thus landing on its rear leg and continuing with the awkward cycle.

Here's the idea for a rolling creature you seem to be missing.  Maybe it will help you understand what I'm talking about.  More MS Paint BS, but it will do.

Spore: General / Re: Ice planet?
« on: August 11, 2005, 03:23:08 am »
All of those are really good ideas that evoke even more questions.  I hope very much that all of those behaviors are implemented in the set of instructions governing the animals so that they can interact both with their own species and others in the "emergent" manner that Wright talks about.  If overpopulation becomes an issue, I hope a portion of the group will leave for new territories.

If this game pulls off emergence even to that extent, I won't know how to contain myself.

I'll have to make a game based entirely on an ant-like creature.

Spore: General / Re: Creatures You Don't Want To See
« on: August 11, 2005, 03:11:53 am »
Wright said at the GDC that when your worlds are populated, the ecosystem that it creates is balanced.  Creatures in the database can be sorted by any quantifiable aspect, and you will only see creatures that fall within a suitable range for your ecosystem.  Therefore, if enormous, monstrous creatures exist, you won't have to worry about them coming and stomping all over you until your creature has adequate means of defense.  So if and when you do see that 90 metric ton hamster, you'll most likely be able to disable it and/or avoid it to your satisfaction in one way or another.  ;D

Spore: General / Re: not to be a downer but.......
« on: August 11, 2005, 03:03:56 am »
I'm not sure what Morgoth is on, but rolling seems completely possible, and here's why:

Watch Wright's tripod creature walk.  Watch the footstep pattern that was procedurally generated.  Right, middle, left.  Right, middle, left.  Right, middle, left.  At any speed, it's always the same.  Every leg is utilized in the animation, and no two legs are moved in unison.  One would think the creature would run faster if it "jumped" by thrusting its rear legs in unison while landing on the front leg after each "jump."  But instead, the walking animation generated alternates the parallel rear legs and places the middle foot directly between the alternation for balance.

Now watch the one-legged hopping creatures that Wright's tripod creature kills.  They hop forward, using the only leg they have.

If you were to take this one-legged creature and place another leg directly in front of the first one, the only way for the walking animation to utilize both legs is to hop from rear to front to rear to front, moving the creature onward in a back-and-forth swaying motion as illustrated:

Make sense?

Now, elongate the spine and bend it so that it forms a circle--the "head" end meeting the "tail" end.  Place legs all in a row along the "belly" of the creature.  The animation would most likely utilize each leg in the most efficient way, which would of course be to propel the animal forward using each leg in sequence.  Starting at the leg nearest the "tail" end, moving down the train of legs until it reaches the leg nearest the "head" end, at which point the animation loops.  That's one 360 rotation.  The animal just rolled.

I say it's possible.

Spore: General / Re: Creatures You Don't Want To See
« on: August 11, 2005, 02:13:56 am »
This is directed to all of you who say you don't want to see anything "too unrealistic."

Your concept of reality is based wholly on your perceptions.  You're human and you live on Earth.  Now, please take a moment to realize that the Spore universe is not our own.  Anything that anyone can imagine and create will be imagined and will be created, and those creations have every right to transcend your earthly concept of realism for two very simple reasons:

1. They're not from Earth.
2. They're not real.

That said, of course they will seem out of place; of course they will seem goofy and awkward.  However, that's due heavily to the fact that the editors and algorithms in Spore were developed by humans and are based on the concepts we have come to understand in our time on this planet.  They were designed by people who have the same conceptual limitations you and I have, but the beauty of it is that they're open-ended enough so as not to tailor specifically to our limitations.

The point?

If someone manages to create a creature so off the wall, so totally unrealistic, so unimaginably different than anything previously thought possible, more power to that player.

I believe that the sooner you understand that, the sooner you'll have an open mind to every "unrealistic" creation you encounter.

For further perspective, imagine meeting a highly intelligent alien who lives on a planet so different from ours that it can't even fathom how things could work here.

Now show him a giraffe.

Spore: General / Re: Ice planet?
« on: August 11, 2005, 01:33:02 am »
I would like an atmosphere and just enough water to fill the bottoms of the craters. We can stock the new lakes with flying fish, who will be spending much of their time migrating, and fill the valleys between them with assorted plants. It would create some really unique ecological conditions for us to experement with.

That's a very interesting idea, but do you suppose the migration of the fish is possible according to what we currently know about the game?  What I mean to say is that the wildlife may be more sedentary than migratory.  Wright said he was unsure if weather would ever affect gameplay.  Migration is, of course, one of weather's most measurable effects on animals.  If weather does eventually play an active role in the game, or if migration is implemented on a timed schedule regardless of weather, then I think there's some hope.  Otherwise, I believe your schools of flying fish would choose only to soar the skies above their native lakes.

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