Sorry for making another thread for this, but I think you people need a heads up over here in understanding what's going on. I've gone through this discussion on a couple other boards and then came over here to see what Steve's people thought.
I have to say, I was pretty shocked and disappointed at the replies I saw in that RE5 thread. Someone even posted up a pretty racist cartoon in there. I don't post here ever, I listen to the show, but I always thought the GS forums would be more intelligent that that.
Anyway, got a video and some quotes for you to explain what all is going on with the RE5 Controversy and why people are offended.
And it's NOT that we think the game is racists.Resident Uncomfortable... please click.....link fixed!Where once this poster didn't get what was up, after watching the above he had this to say....
I just watched the video myself, and I have to say that it put the whole issue in better perspective. I never really liked Adam Sessler before, but he's a little bit cooler in my book after that, kudos.
I think what had the most effect was just his first statement about the game itself, "mowing down row after row after row of Africans." The fact that he makes it known that we're talking about Africans in Africa, as opposed to "black people" (which I think might have been a cause of some confusion in this topic before now), coupled with the actual footage from the game (which I hadn't seen) definitely allows me to see how some might feel, well, uncomfortable in regards to RE5. I have to say that I myself am still not entirely opposed to the idea, as I think a zombie story in a place where things like voodoo and disease is prevalent and makes for an interesting premise (kind of like The Serpent and The Rainbow), but from what the game clips show, it's just a guy killing 3rd world people in a 3rd world country, without making use of any of the aforementioned interesting concepts. While I don't think this is any more offensive than RE4 painting Eastern Europeans as bat****-crazy, bloodthirsty villains (some of which weren't even zombies) at a basic level, I agree with what Keith says about it being too true to life. Maybe if there wasn't so much still going on in hotspots like Africa it would be different, but it kind of looks like something you'd see on the news, and without the full moon, the tombstones, the organ music, and the eating of brains, it was a little too "extermination" and not enough "survival horror"; it's an interesting idea, it just isn't really necessary. I can see how Capcom is trying to break some new ground as far as locale; the city outbreak has been done to death, as has the underground, the chemical facilities, the military bunkers, etc. Even countryside locations like RE4 have now been explored. A desert/jungle location is a logical next step and frankly a pretty neat idea, but really, you play the game because you want to kill the **** out of undead flesheaters, not Africans. They could just as easily have set it in a fictional country, or an unnamed one with a little less resemblance, and it would have the same effect.
I haven't really changed my stance, but after seeing this video, my posture has altered.
Here's another good one...
I'm not saying, wouldn't say, and haven't said I blame any current people for atrocities that happened for 500 years. I don't think anyone in the gaming community who's offended by RE5 does or would. What I would say is that the effect of five centuries of that and having it only ended about 4 decades ago can have a pretty strong effect on the present and how a race of people are still trying to rise up from that past. That includes being sensitive of pretty offensive imagery. And I don't mean "overly sensitive", I mean "rightfully sensitive." And no, I don't seek out to be offended. I don't bring up the past because it's fun, want attention, or any of those kind of reasons. That's not bull****. It just... is.
I, nor any black person I know wants to make a competition out of "which race suffered more" or "we're the only race that's suffered in history." I find that notion pretty insulting and inconsiderate. It's not a dark spot in history, it's about 90% of American history.
As someone said on my board, the depiction of Spaniards wasn't exactly flattering, but the overall world presented in RE4 was far more horror/fantastical. Full moon, music, grave stones, castles, and so forth panted RE4 with fun gothic horror imagery. It wasn't even close to being realistic. It was a classic ghost town.
RE5 on the other hand is more realistic, there's no horror dressing anywhere other than to make the Africans themselves look pretty gorram angry, ugly, and savage. And that's just not cool to me. At least so far as we've seen in the trailer.
I'll probably say for the thousandth time this thread alone, but it's not simply because they're black. I have no problem with that. But you draw blacks/Africans like they're drawn in RE5 and acting they way they do and you're going to disgust a certain group of people and be offended. Sure, all RE games are creepy and scary... but not like how RE5 is. I find the game more disturbing and offensive to how the developers choose to make Africans look in what's suppose to be a fun game.
While COD4 and other war games do leave me uncomfortable, I guess the reason why people aren't as offended is because they're fighting against trained and armed combatants. Therefore you're sorta on equal footing, as opposed to having fun hauling off and punching a starved, angry and ugly African in his or her face.
Another guy had this to say..
I think Croal's point is that there are certain images that carry weight. Like it or not (in this particular instance), that weight won't be the same for white folks as it is for blacks. There isn't a cultural **** fest in my white boy cultural past that gets pinged every time I see certain sets of images. But I CAN see a black person looking at those random images in RE5 and getting..well...some sort of dark feeling in regard to images that could very well be taken as referencing a very, very dark and uncool part of their races' past. Whether or not you were there or experienced any of it is irrelevant. It's a reminder, a hearkening. It makes you feel something. Croal seems to be saying that you have to take that into the equation and on that I agree. Where Capcom failed in this regard is that they gave no context. And no, saying that it's set in Africa isn't proper context in this case. They simply put it out there as a "game" and I'm not sure that was the best idea. We're all not sure what Capcom is doing with these particular designs or situations and without that, we're left to our own interpretations. With the strong imagery that's portrayed there, it's no suprise that some folks don't like it.
I think that the point is simply to recognize that, when any strong images that evoke a human emotion are being used, there is a responsibility on the part of the creator(s) involved. It's the same responsibility that Ken Levine had when the images of killing children had to be involved in the plotline to Bioshock. The fact that he put that HORRILBE idea in a context that made it even remotely palpable shows that he did it right. And I STILL didn't like it. If Levine had simply shown a clip of a first person shooter where you kill a child, with no knowledge of story, context or place, the father of Rowan Hilden would have been ready to tear some developer heads clean off.
I think Capcom would do the whole gaming world a favor by shedding some proper light on this whole subject.
There's more and I can point out the threads to you if you want, but I hope this helps. I always thought the Gaming Steve Community would be the cream of the crop and better than what I saw in your RE5 thread. Here's hoping this brings the proper perspective to what's going on so that you guys can continue forward with intelligent conversation and better understanding of the actually issues at hand.
Double Post merge:
Shoot... I kinda made my post it's own thread because it really should be seen here. It being buried in this thread, a lot of people are going to miss out on it having already weighed in on what they think and missing the real point.
I really don't like it associated with this thread as even the thread title is misleading and pretty much the opposite of my above post.
If the above can be moved back to his own thread and title, that'd be awesome. If not... it's a real shame a lot of people that need to see it in the Gaming Steve forums aren't and will just continue on thinking that the problem people have with the game is that it's racists...... which we don't think and that's not the problem.
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