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Messages - J-Caizer

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Once upon a time when they both released regularly there were two gaming podcasts that stood above all others when it came to intelligent game discussion. 

There was Gaming Steve.

And there was.... Broadcast Gamer, with host, M.C. Wilson.

He's back and rockin' it weekly.  So if you need a Gaming Steve-esque fix while the king is away... hit up BCG.  It'll do you right.

Back with Steve and MC were both weekly, that was my golden age of podcasts.  Gaming Steve, 1Up Yours when it had John Davidson and Luke Smith, Broadcast Gamer, Team Fremont, and Filmspotting. 

Then for a while there was no BCG or Gaming Steve and 1Up Your.... lately has been kinda shaky. 

Anyway... BCG's back and here's to hoping we can get another golden age and that someday sooner than later I can have both Steve and MC back in my weekly rotation.


Console Games / Re: Resident Evil 5 controversy
« on: April 21, 2008, 03:02:21 pm »
Oooohhhh.... yeah, see again, this is why I wanted my thread seperate from this one.  I guess I was reading the latest posts and just got kinda angry at people saying the reason people were upset about this game was that they thought it was racist.

I figured this was rekindled as a result of N'Gai Croal and Adam Sessler who said nothing of the sort.

I don't agree with that first blogger, but I it is important to note that the blogger's reaction isn't coming out of nowhere.

And I apologize for insulting the GS forum.  I just... yeah, expected the gaming elite and most intelligent of the intelligent who would already be articulating my points better than I ever could.  Instead... yeah... not so much.

It was kinda my fault for not seeing the first post in this thread, but I also again made another seperate thread to make sure what I had didn't have anything to do with "racist" talk.

I love RE games and hate that I'll probably be sitting this one out if the trailer is an indication of the final game.  If it's not, then all the better.  But as it stands yeah... this game so far.... whoo....  very uncool on Capcom's part.

As for torture porn, I'm in the same boat.  Think it's pretty bad stuff.  But my point is that if you or others say you're offended by it... I'm not going to step back and say it's not coming from anywhere.  And I'm not saying Capcom shouldn't make th--  wait, I am saying they shouldn't make this game.  The offensive portrayal after all the good and fun they've done in the past... it just doesn't need to be and I hope they don't or at least call in somebody to not paint it over with pretty colors, but sits down the development team, lets them know what their imagery evokes in people and....just figure out a better way to tell a RE story told in Africa.

Punching and shooting starving Africans just doesn't strike me as the fun I usually get with Capcom games.

It's just...... horribly uncomfortable.

Thanks for the reply and also thanks to the PM's I received from folk and keep on rockin'.

Console Games / Re: Resident Evil 5 controversy
« on: April 21, 2008, 01:25:22 pm »
You're both right.

I just felt that the topic was an important one in video gaming.  And when I came here the thread title alone set the entire discussion in the wrong direction.  Instead of discussing that which N'Gai Croal, Adamd Sessler, and others have brought up regarding this game, some conjured opinion was argued against instead that no one could really argue against or want to.

The game isn't racist.

Sooooo... I thought I'd inject what was the issue at hand in to the thread-- actually, I made it into its own thread because I wanted the message to stand on its own and not be included with what I feel is a lot of mislead discussion.  I wanted to start it fresh here to see if I could get folk to understand what was wrong with this game and continue from there.

But.. it got mashed with the rest and I think my message will just get smushed with stuff I don't believe like the game being racist n' stuff.

I'm just sayin'.... shoot...

Console Games / Re: Resident Evil 5 controversy
« on: April 21, 2008, 12:59:31 pm »
Going out of what way to do what?   ???

I'm not sure what you mean about drawing attention to myself.  My last post or that first post I put in this thread?

As for intelligent or not, I shouldn't judge.  It's just 98% of the thread seemed to be discussing something that wasn't the issue and then going further to make light of racism and the such.

Console Games / Re: Resident Evil 5 controversy
« on: April 21, 2008, 12:29:13 pm »
No tears shed on my part, hombre.

What I expected to see was more than one person post what I did earlier in this thread, then others to fall in line of understanding and then intelligent conversation to grow out of it to put my message board and others to shame with the depth of how you guys understand the issue at hand.

Then see Steve swing in this is Ban Hammer of Lightening to smite those that would post such a heinous comic.

Others would be appaulled, apologizes spread and further discussion and understanding that would shed a light to the rest of the internet, whose warmth we could all feel.

Console Games / Re: Resident Evil 5 controversy
« on: April 21, 2008, 10:14:55 am »
Not sure I'm seeing the connection of how many offensive things there are in the world and what I said... but you're right.  There are a lot of offensive things in the world.

And I've been through this discussion in several places.  This is the first one I've seen that's gone on so long with just... nobody stepping up to clue the thread in on what people are actually taking issue with on the game.  Just rampant belittling and making fun of racism with a racist cartoon to boot.

On the GS forum, which I found surprising and disturbing. 

I've been to one end of this internet to the other, and have seen some horrible things.  This by far isn't the worst I've seen, but I do most definately disagree with the majority of this thread.  It's just unexpected given what I thought one would see in a Gaming Steve forum.

Console Games / Re: Resident Evil 5 controversy
« on: April 21, 2008, 05:21:52 am »
Was residential evil 4 racist for having almost all Spanish zombies? no..well then its not racist because resident evil 5 has almost all black zombies case closed end of story.

Do you know what they would call a game with a black guy  mostly slaughtering beating and robbing almost all white people?.

Grand theft auto san andreas Game of the year.

Even though that was sarcasm I'm not to far off.

My best friend (who is black) would likely have a good chuckle about this if i showed him.

My above post explains the problem with RE5.... and it's not that it's racist.  Even explains the difference between RE4 and RE5.

It also points out that the problem isn't "a white person shooting black people."

Thought I'd give it a go here.  Hope someone gives my post a read and sees what's up.

I get the feeling the GS forums aren't for me.  I have to say..... some of the posts I see in this thread are pretty.... disturbing.

And if it was as simple as knee jerk racism, San Andreas would be getting the same treatment for glorifying all the worst aspect of black culture.

It's about each individual's point of view and context, guys.  If a cop were disgusted and appauled by San Andreas, would you tell him to shut up and stop calling everything racist or would you understand that since he tries to do right by his city, has friends that might've been killed in action, that he would be offended by how negatively the police are portrayed in the game and that it's part of the "fun" of killing cops in the game.

It's not that RE5 is racist.  It's historical context for black people who have close family members that have experienced real racism and that the imagery evokes discomfort and disgust.  It's about the dipiction of Africans for a "fun" video game experience and the shooting of and hauling off and hitting starving Africans, some of which dont' really seem to be infected to me.

The difference between this and RE4 is that the atmospher in RE4 is just.... horror fantasy.  Full moon, music, tombstones, groaning in the night and so forth.  It wasn't depiction of hispanics looking like dangerous savages.  It was a classic ghost town that brought fun to it.  RE5 *looks* like a starving African villiage where the people are drawn as monstrous and ugly as possible.  Most, if not all of which don't look zombified.

It's not as simple and straight forward as you guys think.  It's not racist or made by racists, but it is pretty damn offensive.

Sorry for making another thread for this, but I think you people need a heads up over here in understanding what's going on.  I've gone through this discussion on a couple other boards and then came over here to see what Steve's people thought.

I have to say, I was pretty shocked and disappointed at the replies I saw in that RE5 thread.  Someone even posted up a pretty racist cartoon in there.  I don't post here ever, I listen to the show, but I always thought the GS forums would be more intelligent that that.

Anyway, got a video and some quotes for you to explain what all is going on with the RE5 Controversy and why people are offended.  And it's NOT that we think the game is racists.

Resident Uncomfortable... please fixed!

Where once this poster didn't get what was up, after watching the above he had this to say....

I just watched the video myself, and I have to say that it put the whole issue in better perspective. I never really liked Adam Sessler before, but he's a little bit cooler in my book after that, kudos.

I think what had the most effect was just his first statement about the game itself, "mowing down row after row after row of Africans." The fact that he makes it known that we're talking about Africans in Africa, as opposed to "black people" (which I think might have been a cause of some confusion in this topic before now), coupled with the actual footage from the game (which I hadn't seen) definitely allows me to see how some might feel, well, uncomfortable in regards to RE5. I have to say that I myself am still not entirely opposed to the idea, as I think a zombie story in a place where things like voodoo and disease is prevalent and makes for an interesting premise (kind of like The Serpent and The Rainbow), but from what the game clips show, it's just a guy killing 3rd world people in a 3rd world country, without making use of any of the aforementioned interesting concepts. While I don't think this is any more offensive than RE4 painting Eastern Europeans as bat****-crazy, bloodthirsty villains (some of which weren't even zombies) at a basic level, I agree with what Keith says about it being too true to life. Maybe if there wasn't so much still going on in hotspots like Africa it would be different, but it kind of looks like something you'd see on the news, and without the full moon, the tombstones, the organ music, and the eating of brains, it was a little too "extermination" and not enough "survival horror"; it's an interesting idea, it just isn't really necessary. I can see how Capcom is trying to break some new ground as far as locale; the city outbreak has been done to death, as has the underground, the chemical facilities, the military bunkers, etc. Even countryside locations like RE4 have now been explored. A desert/jungle location is a logical next step and frankly a pretty neat idea, but really, you play the game because you want to kill the **** out of undead flesheaters, not Africans. They could just as easily have set it in a fictional country, or an unnamed one with a little less resemblance, and it would have the same effect.

I haven't really changed my stance, but after seeing this video, my posture has altered.

Here's another good one...

I'm not saying, wouldn't say, and haven't said I blame any current people for atrocities that happened for 500 years.  I don't think anyone in the gaming community who's offended by RE5 does or would.  What I would say is that the effect of five centuries of that and having it only ended about 4 decades ago can have a pretty strong effect on the present and how a race of people are still trying to rise up from that past.  That includes being sensitive of pretty offensive imagery.  And I don't mean "overly sensitive", I mean "rightfully sensitive." And no, I don't seek out to be offended.  I don't bring up the past because it's fun, want attention, or any of those kind of reasons.  That's not bull****.  It just... is.

I, nor any black person I know wants to make a competition out of "which race suffered more" or "we're the only race that's suffered in history."  I find that notion pretty insulting and inconsiderate.  It's not a dark spot in history, it's about 90% of American history.

As someone said on my board, the depiction of Spaniards wasn't exactly flattering, but the overall world presented in RE4 was far more horror/fantastical.  Full moon, music, grave stones, castles, and so forth panted RE4 with fun gothic horror imagery.  It wasn't even close to being realistic.  It was a classic ghost town.

RE5 on the other hand is more realistic, there's no horror dressing anywhere other than to make the Africans themselves look pretty gorram angry, ugly, and savage.  And that's just not cool to me.  At least so far as we've seen in the trailer.

I'll probably say for the thousandth time this thread alone, but it's not simply because they're black.  I have no problem with that.  But you draw blacks/Africans like they're drawn in RE5 and acting they way they do and you're going to disgust a certain group of people and be offended.  Sure, all RE games are creepy and scary... but not like how RE5 is.  I find the game more disturbing and offensive to how the developers choose to make Africans look in what's suppose to be a fun game.

While COD4 and other war games do leave me uncomfortable, I guess the reason why people aren't as offended is because they're fighting against trained and armed combatants.  Therefore you're sorta on equal footing, as opposed to having fun hauling off and punching a starved, angry and ugly African in his or her face.

Another guy had this to say..

I think Croal's point is that there are certain images that carry weight. Like it or not (in this particular instance), that weight won't be the same for white folks as it is for blacks. There isn't a cultural **** fest in my white boy cultural past that gets pinged every time I see certain sets of images. But I CAN see a black person looking at those random images in RE5 and getting..well...some sort of dark feeling in regard to images that could very well be taken as referencing a very, very dark and uncool part of their races' past. Whether or not you were there or experienced any of it is irrelevant. It's a reminder, a hearkening. It makes you feel something. Croal seems to be saying that you have to take that into the equation and on that I agree. Where Capcom failed in this regard is that they gave no context. And no, saying that it's set in Africa isn't proper context in this case. They simply put it out there as a "game" and I'm not sure that was the best idea. We're all not sure what Capcom is doing with these particular designs or situations and without that, we're left to our own interpretations. With the strong imagery that's portrayed there, it's no suprise that some folks don't like it.

I think that the point is simply to recognize that, when any strong images that evoke a human emotion are being used, there is a responsibility on the part of the creator(s) involved. It's the same responsibility that Ken Levine had when the images of killing children had to be involved in the plotline to Bioshock. The fact that he put that HORRILBE idea in a context that made it even remotely palpable shows that he did it right.  And I STILL didn't like it. If Levine had simply shown a clip of a first person shooter where you kill a child, with no knowledge of story, context or place, the father of Rowan Hilden would have been ready to tear some developer heads clean off.

I think Capcom would do the whole gaming world a favor by shedding some proper light on this whole subject.

There's more and I can point out the threads to you if you want, but I hope this helps.  I always thought the Gaming Steve Community would be the cream of the crop and better than what I saw in your RE5 thread.  Here's hoping this brings the proper perspective to what's going on so that you guys can continue forward with intelligent conversation and better understanding of the actually issues at hand.

Double Post merge:
Shoot... I kinda made my post it's own thread because it really should be seen here.  It being buried in this thread, a lot of people are going to miss out on it having already weighed in on what they think and missing the real point.

I really don't like it associated with this thread as even the thread title is misleading and pretty much the opposite of my above post.

If the above can be moved back to his own thread and title, that'd be awesome.  If not... it's a real shame a lot of people that need to see it in the Gaming Steve forums aren't and will just continue on thinking that the problem people have with the game is that it's racists...... which we don't think and that's not the problem.

Console Games / Re: Resident Evil 5 is...racist?
« on: April 17, 2008, 07:45:25 pm »
^Um....... oh my god?

Guys, it's not that people think the game is racist.  It's that the game is pretty visually offensive.

See this rant to understand...

Podcasts / Re: Gaming Steve, Episode 67 - And the Winner is... YOU!
« on: December 27, 2007, 02:41:19 pm »

Podcasts / Gaming Steve, Episode 67 - And the Winner is... YOU!
« on: December 27, 2007, 01:57:47 pm »
Did I win?!!?

Don't think I'll get a chance to listen to it 'til this weekend.   :-\

Podcasts / Re: Episode 66 - Another Podcast!
« on: December 19, 2007, 09:11:24 am »
He could announce the winner in 2 minutes or go over the rules and whatever in two minutes.

Soooo.... nope, that doesn't answer it.

Does he?

Podcasts / Re: Episode 66 - Another Podcast!
« on: December 18, 2007, 05:04:10 pm »
I continue to underestimate The Man.  I was expecting the new show in about two weeks... thanks, Steve!

Podcasts / Re: Gaming Steve, Episode 65
« on: December 12, 2007, 12:00:57 pm »
Hmm... now that I hear there were some pretty detailed descriptions, I know that "In the End There Can Be Only One," but can we here a couple runners up that you liked, Steve?

And I don't know what was up with iTunes, but it didn't download the show.  Wasn't even there to select...  ???

Podcasts / Gaming Steve, Episode 65
« on: December 11, 2007, 09:03:44 pm »
By the Matrix.... you know, I honestly wasn't expecting another episode for another three weeks, actually.  Thanks, Steve!

Could someone answer in advance if he names the winner?  I'm guessing.... no.

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