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Will Wright's Spore => Spore: General => Topic started by: Full_Metal on March 17, 2007, 03:48:41 pm

Title: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Full_Metal on March 17, 2007, 03:48:41 pm
My enthousiasm for spore deflated when I saw the new look of the game develloped over the last year. In 05 and 06 it was beautiful and dramatic and moved me to tears. Now it looks so cartoony it's like watching spongebob squarepants.

To its credit, the gameplay looks more interesting than ever before. The tribal phase looked so awesome it might turn out to be my favorite. (Organizing hunts, building up a village, sign me up.!) Interstellar war is now continent-sized fields of mayhem and explosions and looks great.

It looks like it will be awesome to play but I don't think I want to play it in this new cartoony platform.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Celdur on March 17, 2007, 03:52:19 pm
o get over it it looks just fine...better even...at first it looked so gray...now its shiny
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Com on March 17, 2007, 03:53:18 pm
I think that the only thing that has gotten more cartoony is the cell stage and the creature editor. The cell stage probably because not everybody would want to play a "realistic" microscopic level game and the creature editor just looks goods. So I don't think that the game as a whole is moving in any significant direction to the cartoony side of life.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Snake on March 17, 2007, 03:54:21 pm
Be happy you'll ever even get it at least. Its always had a cartoony side. It makes it slightly more enjoyable. The creatures themselves are very cartoony if you think about it. What kind of real life creature would have one gaint eye? Or 10 feet and 1 arm thats attached to a tail?
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Len84 on March 17, 2007, 03:55:22 pm
Two things look cartoony. The new editor look. Which to be fair, how many people are going to look at that background and think 'Oh god this sucks! Look at that background!' when they're busy forming their creature :)
The Tidepool stage,which yes, looks very cartoony given the design of some of the creatures there. But its the initial tutorial of the whole game. Surely you wont be on that section for long?
After thats done, you'll never see it again until you start another creature!

Other than those two things, nothing else looks different.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Dekadin on March 17, 2007, 04:06:41 pm
It is true that the whole look of the game has been somewhat cartoony from the start, but when we first heard of it, we assumed you would be able to make more realistic creatures, and that will was just being silly and making a quick presentation. I assumed as much anyway. It has since been pretty well confirmed that this won't be possible.

I for one, find this very disappointing. It's not a game destroying fault, but I feel that a realistic style would go along with the game much better.

It's not that spore won't be a great game... we all know it will. But the wonder we experienced when we all saw the GDC '05 video for the first time is gone. Spore has gone from a historic masterpiece, to an innovative and most likely highly enjoyable videogame.

This all makes me wonder if this was the right way to make spore... Perhaps the game could have been done more justice if it'd been released sometime in the future, and though this will probably mark me as blasphemer on these forums for saying this, perhaps Will Wright isn't the right one to make it. Don't get me wrong, he's the best there is with innovation and concepts. I'm just not sure he's the best at actually making the games. Because to be honest, I never liked the sims of sim city or any of Will's previous games all that much.

As much as I want to love Spore, I'm afraid it'll turn out the same as those... a great idea... but just missing something fun.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Notorious B.O.B on March 17, 2007, 04:09:04 pm
My enthousiasm for spore deflated when I saw the new look of the game develloped over the last year. In 05 and 06 it was beautiful and dramatic and moved me to tears. Now it looks so cartoony it's like watching spongebob squarepants.

To its credit, the gameplay looks more interesting than ever before. The tribal phase looked so awesome it might turn out to be my favorite. (Organizing hunts, building up a village, sign me up.!) Interstellar war is now continent-sized fields of mayhem and explosions and looks great.

It looks like it will be awesome to play but I don't think I want to play it in this new cartoony platform.

Well then don't.  Problem solved.

My position on this issue is quite simple:  If they change it by release date:  fine.  If they don't: shove it, stop whining, and deal with it.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: nickmcdoz on March 17, 2007, 04:10:21 pm
o get over it it looks just fine...better even...at first it looked so gray...now its shiny
Get over it? Man you're a tool. They could take the editors out of this game a some people on this forum would still be saying get over it. They're so into this game, they've gotten lost. Mentally.

Anyway, I think the game looks fine, also remember that the new "cell phase" displayed a mulitcellular creature, not a cartoony cell. That's the only cartoony difference, and it didn't bother me, because I couldn't imagine it any other way.

My complaint is the new added videogameness. It totally took away from the experience of watching the game. The large icons everywhere, the multiple acid spitting monsters, the big ability things on the side of the screen, the lack of more realistic and less fast creatures on the screen, the stupid background of the editor (that I'll admit their is no way they would leave out an option to get rid of that after how many people ive seen across all these forums whining about it) the "impossible" sporepedia creatures.

They took away realism in other areas, not the graphics.

Things like that. My complaint is I didn't feel like I was watching the Pixar-animated discovery channel with a god complex.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Snake on March 17, 2007, 04:12:44 pm
It is true that the whole look of the game has been somewhat cartoony from the start, but when we first heard of it, we assumed you would be able to make more realistic creatures, and that will was just being silly and making a quick presentation. I assumed as much anyway. It has since been pretty well confirmed that this won't be possible.

I for one, find this very disappointing. It's not a game destroying fault, but I feel that a realistic style would go along with the game much better.

It's not that spore won't be a great game... we all know it will. But the wonder we experienced when we all saw the GDC '05 video for the first time is gone. Spore has gone from a historic masterpiece, to an innovative and most likely highly enjoyable videogame.

This all makes me wonder if this was the right way to make spore... Perhaps the game could have been done more justice if it'd been released sometime in the future, and though this will probably mark me as blasphemer on these forums for saying this, perhaps Will Wright isn't the right one to make it. Don't get me wrong, he's the best there is with innovation and concepts. I'm just not sure he's the best at actually making the games. Because to be honest, I never liked the sims of sim city or any of Will's previous games all that much.

As much as I want to love Spore, I'm afraid it'll turn out the same as those... a great idea... but just missing something fun.

Blasphemy! Heh... Anyway, Will is the one guy who even thought of this, and had the power to make it happen. He has made so many good games that he really is famous. The Sims were good, i've never played simcity, so i don't know about that one. Spore will be awesome and stop moping around.

o get over it it looks just fine...better even...at first it looked so gray...now its shiny
Get over it? Man you're a tool. They could take the editors out of this game a some people on this forum would still be saying get over it. They're so into this game, they've gotten lost. Mentally.

Anyway, I think the it looks fine, and just remember that the new "cell phase" displayed a mulitcellular creature, not a cartoony cell.

My complaint is the new added videogameness. It totally took away from the experience of watching the game. The large icons everywhere, the multiple acid spitting monsters, the big ability things on the side of the screen, the lack of more realistic and less fast creatures on the screen, the stupid background of the editor (that I'll admit their is no way they would leave out an option to get rid of that)

Things like that. My complaint is I didn't feel like I was watching the Pixar-animated discovery channel with a god complex.
Seriously stop freaking whining. For god's sake its a GAME. Its supposed to enjoyed, and if you can't realize that then something really is wrong with you.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: nickmcdoz on March 17, 2007, 04:17:08 pm
It is true that the whole look of the game has been somewhat cartoony from the start, but when we first heard of it, we assumed you would be able to make more realistic creatures, and that will was just being silly and making a quick presentation. I assumed as much anyway. It has since been pretty well confirmed that this won't be possible.

I for one, find this very disappointing. It's not a game destroying fault, but I feel that a realistic style would go along with the game much better.

It's not that spore won't be a great game... we all know it will. But the wonder we experienced when we all saw the GDC '05 video for the first time is gone. Spore has gone from a historic masterpiece, to an innovative and most likely highly enjoyable videogame.

This all makes me wonder if this was the right way to make spore... Perhaps the game could have been done more justice if it'd been released sometime in the future, and though this will probably mark me as blasphemer on these forums for saying this, perhaps Will Wright isn't the right one to make it. Don't get me wrong, he's the best there is with innovation and concepts. I'm just not sure he's the best at actually making the games. Because to be honest, I never liked the sims of sim city or any of Will's previous games all that much.

As much as I want to love Spore, I'm afraid it'll turn out the same as those... a great idea... but just missing something fun.

Blasphemy! Heh... Anyway, Will is the one guy who even thought of this, and had the power to make it happen. He has made so many good games that he really is famous. The Sims were good, i've never played simcity, so i don't know about that one. Spore will be awesome and stop moping around.

o get over it it looks just fine...better even...at first it looked so gray...now its shiny
Get over it? Man you're a tool. They could take the editors out of this game a some people on this forum would still be saying get over it. They're so into this game, they've gotten lost. Mentally.

Anyway, I think the it looks fine, and just remember that the new "cell phase" displayed a mulitcellular creature, not a cartoony cell.

My complaint is the new added videogameness. It totally took away from the experience of watching the game. The large icons everywhere, the multiple acid spitting monsters, the big ability things on the side of the screen, the lack of more realistic and less fast creatures on the screen, the stupid background of the editor (that I'll admit their is no way they would leave out an option to get rid of that)

Things like that. My complaint is I didn't feel like I was watching the Pixar-animated discovery channel with a god complex.
Seriously stop freaking whining. For god's sake its a GAME. Its supposed to enjoyed, and if you can't realize that then something really is wrong with you.

Keep whining everybody! If we all can whine in unison, maybe, just maybe, a spore dev will say "Will, you better take a look at this. There is a mass whining. We better add a few options in there. Let them have the old version of the sporepedia if they choose. Also make it so you don't have that cool looking background that you and I worked so hard on, and they can have they sculpting a clay creature and painting, and watching it magically come to life, without a silly 2D pop-up background, feel of the editor.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Dekadin on March 17, 2007, 04:18:10 pm
My enthousiasm for spore deflated when I saw the new look of the game develloped over the last year. In 05 and 06 it was beautiful and dramatic and moved me to tears. Now it looks so cartoony it's like watching spongebob squarepants.

To its credit, the gameplay looks more interesting than ever before. The tribal phase looked so awesome it might turn out to be my favorite. (Organizing hunts, building up a village, sign me up.!) Interstellar war is now continent-sized fields of mayhem and explosions and looks great.

It looks like it will be awesome to play but I don't think I want to play it in this new cartoony platform.

Well then don't.  Problem solved.

My position on this issue is quite simple:  If they change it by release date:  fine.  If they don't: shove it, stop whining, and deal with it.
My position on your post is quite simple: If we stop expresing concerns about the direction spore is going in before the release date: fine. If we don't: shove it, stop whining, and deal with it.

And yeah I know, it's his game, I'm just mentioning it cause I've been waiting for this game since forever, and it makes me want to rip my hair out that it's so close to what I want and yet not quite >.>
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Lurker28 on March 17, 2007, 04:22:01 pm
I have always expected spore to me more cartoonish, I mean we are talking about a lot of stuff that we can barely explain about the universe. Also, Will Wright likes to exaggerate everything in order to allow a wider audience to be excepted of the concept. Spore isn't just for the hardcore, it is for everyone.

You have to begin understanding the demographic here. Seriously, one of the biggest reason World of Warcraft has done so well is because it allows for an acceptable cartoonish aesthetic that pleases everyone (That and they just revamped previous MMO's and them better).

Truthfully,There is a lot to this game and critically analyzing it over some very small as aesthetic pieces seems a little frivolous. Truel, we have no idea how in depth the editor really is until they are completely done making changes to it. You can see that even in a month, from GDC to SXSW there was changes to the editor. Do not fret over small details changing it is a part of the development cycles, to weave out some things that work and somethings that do not.

I think the developers are doing the best they can, I have a lot of criticisms about the game so do not thing I am just a one of those blind spore fans. I just can not make a "hard fact" opinion if the game is still understand A LOT of development.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Tarrasque on March 17, 2007, 04:22:17 pm
The cartoony looks are disappointing, but surely there are technical reasons for it.

There are hints in the videos that there are actually different levels of detail: If you spend more time tweaking your designs in the editors you can make it all much better looking. For example the ship/boat they designed and that attacked the installation or vehicle on the beach - the level of freedom they had with the shaping of the hull was amazing. If you do not apply the garish coulours it may look cool in the end. The coulours are key imo, what we have seen so far are mostly pink and bright green and such yucky paintings.

Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Lualmoba on March 17, 2007, 04:24:18 pm
My complaint is the new added videogameness. It totally took away from the experience of watching the game. The large icons everywhere, the multiple acid spitting monsters, the big ability things on the side of the screen, the lack of more realistic and less fast creatures on the screen, the stupid background of the editor, the "impossible" sporepedia creatures.

That's exactly what I had been thinking lately. It used to seem like a game about exploring. You were able to explore the world, discover new things, and enjoy looking at things. Now it seems to be all about playing a video game. It looks like it's all about interacting with other creatures, fighting, eating, surviving, constantly running from other creatures, which I don't really think leaves you much time to actually just walk around and enjoy the view. You have to focus too much on how you are going to play. I liked how few buttons there were, so you focused mostly just on the creature (I thought Will had said once that he wanted an almost buttonless view... but now the whole bottom of the screen is crammed with buttons). Now it seems like you have to think on what parts you are going to use or else you won't survive, or be able to pick fruits, or whatever, instead of just enjoying making your creature. I really liked the feel of the 2005 demo.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Lurker28 on March 17, 2007, 04:25:07 pm
My enthousiasm for spore deflated when I saw the new look of the game develloped over the last year. In 05 and 06 it was beautiful and dramatic and moved me to tears. Now it looks so cartoony it's like watching spongebob squarepants.

To its credit, the gameplay looks more interesting than ever before. The tribal phase looked so awesome it might turn out to be my favorite. (Organizing hunts, building up a village, sign me up.!) Interstellar war is now continent-sized fields of mayhem and explosions and looks great.

It looks like it will be awesome to play but I don't think I want to play it in this new cartoony platform.

Well then don't.  Problem solved.

My position on this issue is quite simple:  If they change it by release date:  fine.  If they don't: shove it, stop whining, and deal with it.
My position on your post is quite simple: If we stop expresing concerns about the direction spore is going in before the release date: fine. If we don't: shove it, stop whining, and deal with it.

And yeah I know, it's his game, I'm just mentioning it cause I've been waiting for this game since forever, and it makes me want to rip my hair out that it's so close to what I want and yet not quite >.>

Yes but us Hardcore fans account for such a small percentage of the gaming population. This game is going to be huge and a few hundred people bitching about how it isn't what they perfect ally had in their head is just ridiculous.

I would say that Spore is going to sell a few million in its first year, there are only a few thousand people registered on this entire site. I just wanted to put that in perspective.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Notorious B.O.B on March 17, 2007, 04:28:53 pm
It is true that the whole look of the game has been somewhat cartoony from the start, but when we first heard of it, we assumed you would be able to make more realistic creatures, and that will was just being silly and making a quick presentation. I assumed as much anyway. It has since been pretty well confirmed that this won't be possible.

I for one, find this very disappointing. It's not a game destroying fault, but I feel that a realistic style would go along with the game much better.

It's not that spore won't be a great game... we all know it will. But the wonder we experienced when we all saw the GDC '05 video for the first time is gone. Spore has gone from a historic masterpiece, to an innovative and most likely highly enjoyable videogame.

This all makes me wonder if this was the right way to make spore... Perhaps the game could have been done more justice if it'd been released sometime in the future, and though this will probably mark me as blasphemer on these forums for saying this, perhaps Will Wright isn't the right one to make it. Don't get me wrong, he's the best there is with innovation and concepts. I'm just not sure he's the best at actually making the games. Because to be honest, I never liked the sims of sim city or any of Will's previous games all that much.

As much as I want to love Spore, I'm afraid it'll turn out the same as those... a great idea... but just missing something fun.

Blasphemy! Heh... Anyway, Will is the one guy who even thought of this, and had the power to make it happen. He has made so many good games that he really is famous. The Sims were good, i've never played simcity, so i don't know about that one. Spore will be awesome and stop moping around.

o get over it it looks just fine...better even...at first it looked so gray...now its shiny
Get over it? Man you're a tool. They could take the editors out of this game a some people on this forum would still be saying get over it. They're so into this game, they've gotten lost. Mentally.

Anyway, I think the it looks fine, and just remember that the new "cell phase" displayed a mulitcellular creature, not a cartoony cell.

My complaint is the new added videogameness. It totally took away from the experience of watching the game. The large icons everywhere, the multiple acid spitting monsters, the big ability things on the side of the screen, the lack of more realistic and less fast creatures on the screen, the stupid background of the editor (that I'll admit their is no way they would leave out an option to get rid of that)

Things like that. My complaint is I didn't feel like I was watching the Pixar-animated discovery channel with a god complex.
Seriously stop freaking whining. For god's sake its a GAME. Its supposed to enjoyed, and if you can't realize that then something really is wrong with you.

Keep whining everybody! If we all can whine in unison, maybe, just maybe, a spore dev will say "Will, you better take a look at this. There is a mass whining. We better add a few options in there. Let them have the old version of the sporepedia if they choose. Also make it so you don't have that cool looking background that you and I worked so hard on, and they can have they sculpting a clay creature and painting, and watching it magically come to life, without a silly 2D pop-up background, feel of the editor.

Most people I know Nick don't respond to whining so nicely.  Usually its mass dismissal or a backhand across the mouth in irritation.  And I personally wouldn't want that from WW (however cool it might be that I got his attention) ;)  ;D

And yeah, as said before, the hardcore gamers and everyone else on this site make up so little of what Will Wright is aiming for that we barely matter (we do matter a little though)
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Lurker28 on March 17, 2007, 04:30:06 pm
My enthousiasm for spore deflated when I saw the new look of the game develloped over the last year. In 05 and 06 it was beautiful and dramatic and moved me to tears. Now it looks so cartoony it's like watching spongebob squarepants.

To its credit, the gameplay looks more interesting than ever before. The tribal phase looked so awesome it might turn out to be my favorite. (Organizing hunts, building up a village, sign me up.!) Interstellar war is now continent-sized fields of mayhem and explosions and looks great.

It looks like it will be awesome to play but I don't think I want to play it in this new cartoony platform.

Do you know something we do not? Do you know if those were not just place holders, I know not many of you kids have ever beta tested games, but I can assure you a lot changes even in the beta test. This ****ing game isn't even in late alpha stages yet. Hold your horses on criticizing some buttons that were not there before.

The UI will not even look anything like what we just saw at the SXSW Presentation, I can damn near guarantee it. It changes to much, like I said before...do not worry about small aesthetic changes.

Also, it is still a video game so there has to be some goal oriented achievements. Most of the focus is still on the editor and exploring in the space stage. IMO, very little has changed in that aspect besides now each particular stage is more in depth (which is a good thing).

Well then don't.  Problem solved.

My position on this issue is quite simple:  If they change it by release date:  fine.  If they don't: shove it, stop whining, and deal with it.
My position on your post is quite simple: If we stop expresing concerns about the direction spore is going in before the release date: fine. If we don't: shove it, stop whining, and deal with it.

And yeah I know, it's his game, I'm just mentioning it cause I've been waiting for this game since forever, and it makes me want to rip my hair out that it's so close to what I want and yet not quite >.>

Yes but us Hardcore fans account for such a small percentage of the gaming population. This game is going to be huge and a few hundred people bitching about how it isn't what they perfect ally had in their head is just ridiculous.

I would say that Spore is going to sell a few million in its first year, there are only a few thousand people registered on this entire site. I just wanted to put that in perspective.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Dekadin on March 17, 2007, 04:35:49 pm
Quote
Yes but us Hardcore fans account for such a small percentage of the gaming population.

Oh but you're forgetting one thing: I'm a selfish bastard. Seriously, screw the target audience. I couldn't care less what other people want out of this game. I want what I want, and while I understand it's unrealistic to expect the game to meet my standards, this doesn't stop me from wanting it badly.

And guys those quotes are getting huge, it'd be better if you only quoted the part that's needed to understand your post.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Lualmoba on March 17, 2007, 04:46:14 pm
The thing is that we are not all the same. All of the people in this forum are not hardcore fans. So, if many people agree that those are not the best changes, then you should think a bit about what is wrong with what you are doing. Yes, we account for a small percentage of the population, but how much of the rest of the population think the same as us?
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Tark on March 17, 2007, 04:47:09 pm
First off, there are only about, say, 5 parts which reflect any sort of cartoony-ness so far as we've seen. For the most part, the game looks alright. Sure there's that bit of cartoony-ness in certain places, but I think that Spore is shaping up pretty well.

Besides, almost the entire game is made by the player: Don't want a cartoony world? Don't make one.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Lualmoba on March 17, 2007, 04:54:21 pm
I think the planets are kind of the base of how realistic everything can be, since they are pretty much unchangeable, so the creators need to find something that is not too cartoony, but that fits with the game.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Flisch on March 17, 2007, 04:58:05 pm
Seriously stop freaking whining. For god's sake its a GAME. Its supposed to enjoyed, and if you can't realize that then something really is wrong with you.

Don't you realise, that we don't have to buy games? And when wouldn't, that the gaming industry wouldn't earn any money? Finally they do something for us, and we do not buy their games, because its polite or because we are supposed to do.

How would you like it, when a hairdresser would totally screw up your hairstyle and afterwards he says "Stop freaking whining! It's just a hairstyle! Ohh and by the way, it costed 50$."

Whining is the best and most direct way to tell the game designers what they have to do and where they can improve the game.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Fatalfist on March 17, 2007, 05:15:36 pm
it looks like it always has.... you just seee more of it now.

p.s. so you all are saying that the Willosaur isnt cartony and looks like this...
(http://web.utk.edu/~afuller4/Raptor%20Alien%20Finished.JPG)
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: derella on March 17, 2007, 05:31:24 pm
My enjoyment of Spore doesn't hinge on the art direction of the game. So no, I don't think Spore is too cartoony.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Luminar on March 17, 2007, 05:34:05 pm
What is being showcased all looks cartoony and bouncy but i'm certain the editor is capable of creating sinister things too. Hell, some guy posted here not so long ago, having got to demo the creature editor and he'd made this vicious looking creature that was in no way cartoony.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: gec05 on March 17, 2007, 06:11:42 pm
This is the post to end all posts:

The Spore team took much consideration as to making the game either realistic or cartoony. Now of course reality has very natural beauty and grace. It's more complex and detailed which adds a lot of variety. Physics also had to be taken into consideration. If you add both high detail and complex AI, you got a massive task ahead of you and would prolong the game's entire development time for an additional amount of years. Not to mention to include every variant and type of feature that exists in mother nature which can mean thousands to billions of factors that needed to be considered. It's a rather daunting task to put just a fraction of that into a game that's supposed to give you the "ultimate" freedom of creativity.

On the other hand, cartoon reality allows more flexibility. Cartoons are a definative form of our imaginations. Spore is build around imagination. They perfectly go hand in hand. When one of the developers discussed about giving Spore a cartoony look, he pointed out the consequences of making it realistic. Too many parts to come up with, too complex and too complicated to work with in an editor, too unattractive for the casual gamer. Will Wright intended for this game to be casual-centric from the beginning as most of his games usually have.

Oh but you're forgetting one thing: I'm a selfish bastard. Seriously, screw the target audience. I couldn't care less what other people want out of this game. I want what I want, and while I understand it's unrealistic to expect the game to meet my standards, this doesn't stop me from wanting it badly.

Seriously, you're just going to ruin the game for yourself. Demand will always meet the greater consensus so Will can get the most bang for his buck... so get over it.

So back to the discussion. Spore needed to as flexible as it can be so that cool and unusual creatures can be made. If you add a realistic eyeball and enlarge it to impossible proportions, does it look realistic? It defeats the purpose of being realistic to begin with if you can do that. And if you limit on how big people can make it then theres no point in freedom of creativity. Second of all, cartoons are easy to visualize and easy to imitate. This supports a user-friendly environment for the casual demographic. Using simpler shapes and parts makes this game more attractive and toy-like as Will wanted it to be since the GDC 05 video. Speaking of the GDC 05 video, it still looks cartoony even in there. Even if the bad video quality makes it hard for you to tell, the game was and still is cartoony. I don't know why you suddenly complain now.

Overall, the cartoony look is for developmental reasons. This game needed to be able to simulate any creature that could possibly be made. The developers cannot assume every creature configuration, they cannot factor in every detail. Programming it would be a nightmare. It's also how the developers wanted it to look like. You can't tell Van Gough you don't like the way he made his picture. Will is entitled to make the game as he wants it and that should be fine enough for you. We can't make everyone happy.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Petreak on March 17, 2007, 08:12:49 pm
You have to begin understanding the demographic here. Seriously, one of the biggest reason World of Warcraft has done so well is because it allows for an acceptable cartoonish aesthetic that pleases everyone (That and they just revamped previous MMO's and them better).
The cartoony look is the main reason I didn't like World of Warcraft. I thought they could have made better graphics.

Truthfully,There is a lot to this game and critically analyzing it over some very small as aesthetic pieces seems a little frivolous. Truel, we have no idea how in depth the editor really is until they are completely done making changes to it. You can see that even in a month, from GDC to SXSW there was changes to the editor. Do not fret over small details changing it is a part of the development cycles, to weave out some things that work and somethings that do not.

Uhh, we haven't seen any video from the GDC this year (or at least I haven't), so we have no clue what the editor even looked like, so how can you say it looks different in a month. I am betting the editor looked like it does now at the GDC. Those videos that came out the same time the GDC was taking place were proven to not be from GDC 2007, but from some survey company.
I didn't like the cartoony look at first, but the more I see of it, the less it bothers me. I still want to play this game so bad; I can live with the recent changes. Unless they REALLY do something more to change the game. I really hope they are finished making changes and are tweaking performance and such and getting ready for release.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: WhiteWolf7 on March 17, 2007, 08:42:29 pm
Its not THAT cartooney

And if you can make more realstic lookining Abomonations if you want. Its up to you

I consider cartoons cartooney and this don't look like no tom and jerry to me. And it was never meant to looke hyper real like gears or lost planet or company of heros etc
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: starshard0 on March 17, 2007, 11:05:07 pm
Its not THAT cartooney

And if you can make more realstic lookining Abomonations if you want. Its up to you

I consider cartoons cartooney and this don't look like no tom and jerry to me. And it was never meant to looke hyper real like gears or lost planet or company of heros etc
I've been a major advocate of the degradation of Spore into a cartooney abomination, but when you get down to it, it's more about gameplay and what YOU, the player, decide to create. Personally, I'll create a hyper-realistic being and play as realisticaly as possible.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: WhiteWolf7 on March 17, 2007, 11:09:38 pm
Its not THAT cartooney

And if you can make more realstic lookining Abomonations if you want. Its up to you

I consider cartoons cartooney and this don't look like no tom and jerry to me. And it was never meant to looke hyper real like gears or lost planet or company of heros etc
I've been a major advocate of the degradation of Spore into a cartooney abomination, but when you get down to it, it's more about gameplay and what YOU, the player, decide to create. Personally, I'll create a hyper-realistic being and play as realisticaly as possible.

And you can do that. The thing that annoys me is people act like you cant do that

Aside from the tidepool i don't think it looks very cartooney and im a hardcore realism fan. I can pull up some creatures that don't look very cartooney
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: starshard0 on March 17, 2007, 11:13:43 pm
Yeah, I noticed the cartoonynish of the tidepool too, personally I prefer the old one, but the important thing is gameplay. Shoot, spore could be made of 2d sprites and still have the same appeal as long as the gameplay was the same.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Lurker28 on March 18, 2007, 12:09:56 am
I guess it comes down to what matters most, gameplay or graphics. I mean geez the reason why Starcaft is still the number one RTS game in the world is because of gameplay not because of graphics. World of Warcraft and Counter-Strike can be said the same....people play more 'normal' counterstrike then they do source.

Sometimes a little artistic style, plus good gameplay create a longer life for the game.

Let me think, Doom 3 had crazy graphics for the time and no one plays that. Everquest 2 at the time had a lot better "realistic" graphics than WoW, and it has less than 200'000 subs.

Seriously, what it all comes down to his gameplay and ease of use....graphics are just the icing on the cake.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: WhiteWolf7 on March 18, 2007, 12:38:11 am
But im still trying to figure out what is so cartooney? It looks realistic to me just not photo like realistic 

Here is what i consider *cartoony*

 (http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/i351845_vxv.jpg) (http://www.imagehosting.com)

 (http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/i351846_fgfg.jpg) (http://www.imagehosting.com)

Here is hyper realistic

 (http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/i351847_jhj.jpg) (http://www.imagehosting.com)

 (http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/i351848_vfd.jpg) (http://www.imagehosting.com)


Here is spore!

 (http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/i351849_01425sz1i15519100.gif) (http://www.imagehosting.com)

 (http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/i351850_ted072417.jpg) (http://www.imagehosting.com)

Now what should spore look like? Gears of war? Pokemon? Or what it is now? I think it fits spore its not THAt cartoony. But not everygame ought to look like gears nowadays. All of wills games have had a bit of color to them but have they ever not been fun?. Even so this editer lets you creat near anything you can think of. You could easeily make something look more realistic then those 2 above pics

Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: captainjp on March 18, 2007, 01:03:52 am
My enthousiasm for spore deflated when I saw the new look of the game develloped over the last year. In 05 and 06 it was beautiful and dramatic and moved me to tears. Now it looks so cartoony it's like watching spongebob squarepants.

To its credit, the gameplay looks more interesting than ever before. The tribal phase looked so awesome it might turn out to be my favorite. (Organizing hunts, building up a village, sign me up.!) Interstellar war is now continent-sized fields of mayhem and explosions and looks great.

It looks like it will be awesome to play but I don't think I want to play it in this new cartoony platform.

You donīt know or its the only style!
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Protoavis on March 18, 2007, 02:38:30 am
Now what should spore look like?  Even so this editer lets you creat near anything you can think of.

Well it shouldn't look like a Pixar reject for starters...or anything to do with Pixar for that matter, Pixar is wrong.

Actually most of the stuff comming out of Spore looks like they could have come from monster rancher...which ultimately was cartoony any way you look at it.

Based on the video's thus far I see inherent limitations to the editors, which are like super dooper for getting the basic shape of allot of things, but ultimately could be allot more powerful

I want the eyeless frog from the prototype texture editor back :)
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Lurker28 on March 18, 2007, 03:51:35 am
Now what should spore look like?  Even so this editer lets you creat near anything you can think of.

Well it shouldn't look like a Pixar reject for starters...or anything to do with Pixar for that matter, Pixar is wrong.

Actually most of the stuff comming out of Spore looks like they could have come from monster rancher...which ultimately was cartoony any way you look at it.

Based on the video's thus far I see inherent limitations to the editors, which are like super dooper for getting the basic shape of allot of things, but ultimately could be allot more powerful

I want the eyeless frog from the prototype texture editor back :)

If you want so much, then i suggest you pick up a copy of Maya 9.0 from the internet...pay a few hundred dollars for the full addition of it and...**** I mean start making your own game EXACTLY the way you want it.

Oh wait a minute, I forgot, you are not even close to comprehending the amount of time it takes to actually make a model, rigging, texturing, and animation a actual character.

I think spore has done an amazing job, leaps and bounds in terms of gaming customizability. It is so complicated to actually make these things in 3D Studio Max and Maya. I only wish you could understand, as an animator I am very excited to be able to create something like that so easily.

I know, I know....I might be simple and only comprised of a few hundred parts, but overall the options are almost limitless. More parts can be added to the game in order to expand on the initial content.

You retarded commercial gamers have no idea what it really takes to create a fully developed game, especially something as hard as this. STFU and if you think you can do it better, please be my guest, there is no game TO DATE that has been able to give you the expandability as this game has, so instead of knocking it please just let it be released.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: DaMuncha on March 18, 2007, 03:57:32 am
took me 6 months to completely replace all the Art assets for Quake 3, and make 4 chracters which were all animated and textured. And make it all into my own mod with a story. its called "Shards of Destiny". Once i got into the flow, it takes 2 weeks to make a character. Thats inccluding modeling, texturing, rigging, animating, and exporting it all to wort properly in Quake III.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Lurker28 on March 18, 2007, 03:58:54 am
Just so you  understand the amount of time to go into an "amateur" animation, something I do for a living. However, not nearly has perfect as a game dev.

(http://members.cox.net/preditor28/3D%20Animated%20Eye.jpg)
texture (in photoshop) 10 hours
model (In Maya 8) 18 hours

(http://members.cox.net/preditor28/Bird%20Render%20Model.jpg)
concept model (In Maya 8) - 3 hours

(http://members.cox.net/preditor28/Environment%20Shot.jpg)
texture (photoshop) - 1 hours
model (Maya 8) - 5 hours
animation (Maya 8) - 8 hours
painteffects (Maya 8) - 2 hours

(http://members.cox.net/preditor28/Tennis.jpg)

texture (photoshop) - 1 hour
model (Maya 8) - 2 1/2 hours


All you people bitching about this stuff have no idea the amount of time it takes just to make a piece of grass move, and the texture on the grass to look decent.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Lurker28 on March 18, 2007, 04:01:31 am
took me 6 months to completely replace all the Art assets for Quake 3, and make 4 chracters which were all animated and textured. And make it all into my own mod with a story. its called "Shards of Destiny". Once i got into the flow, it takes 2 weeks to make a character. Thats inccluding modeling, texturing, rigging, animating, and exporting it all to wort properly in Quake III.

So you just might understand the chasm that Will Wright is trying to dive into here. These "gamers" can not quite grasp the amount of time it takes to make something of quality.

I understand the game might not be "exactly" what you pictured, but understand the issues Will is tackling at the moment and how far he has come. Will has gone years ahead of it's time in terms of procedural animations and texturing, it might not be perfect but this is the first step.

If you guys want to look at it, here is my pre-released website concept that I am coming up with and will be finished in the coming months....all this was done in Flash Animation
http://members.cox.net/preditor28/Flash%20Site/TreeGrow.html (http://members.cox.net/preditor28/Flash%20Site/TreeGrow.html)
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Haseri on March 18, 2007, 04:45:18 am
World of Warcraft is cartoony, and yet it is the most popular MMOG. If it can get away with being cartoony, so can Spore. It could become the most poular MSOG ever!
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Protoavis on March 18, 2007, 04:52:07 am
Ermm lol over that outburst.



If you want so much

What I want was displayed in the prototypes and has since completely disappeared. If you look at intial models and the models now there are subtle differences which I simply see and become disappointed with. Seriously the prototype texture editor and the current texture editor end results are from entirely different worlds, my opinion is the prototype was infinitely better. Seriously anyone have the series of images that has the eyeless frog to show the obvious differences between then and now?

Oh wait a minute, I forgot, you are not even close to comprehending the amount of time it takes to actually make a model, rigging, texturing, and animation a actual character.

Considering the vast majority of that is handled by the program procedurally it's an irrelevant argument. A relevant argument would be to do with the time to create said program and tweak it's bugs.

I think spore has done an amazing job, leaps and bounds in terms of gaming customizability.

I never said it didn't.

I know, I know....I might be simple and only comprised of a few hundred parts, but overall the options are almost limitless. More parts can be added to the game in order to expand on the initial content.

Parts aren't the inherent limitation I see, I see limitations in the ability to manipulate the "clay" Imagine a horseshoe, now imagne 10 of them all lined up forming a tunnel (obviously without a "bottom/floor")....not a body shape one could create in the editor as shown so far. The manipulation of the clay is extending, bending, and swelling...so far things like pinching, denting, flattening (which are things you can see in the early greyscale group shots of models) haven't been shown to be possible since.

so instead of knocking it please just let it be released.

Critism and "knocking it" are quite different srry2say

Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Syao on March 18, 2007, 04:59:15 am
I don't see any bad points here,it's not TOO cartoonish,it's just fine.
It's more awesome than ever.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Lord Janos on March 18, 2007, 05:58:25 am
Some of you need to take a step back and recognise that Spore is a game again.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: starshard0 on March 18, 2007, 09:50:48 am
I have mentioned in the past that I would gladly pay $100 to play whatever Will was playing at GDC 2005, I don't see why they don't just release that.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Huckbuck on March 18, 2007, 10:12:23 am
Cause it was scripted. If they would release it you wouldnt be able to to something that Will didnt do, whatever creature you would make in the editor it would turn up as the Willosaur (This has been proved, I think it was in the Screeble E3 vid when the creature had another texture then the one he picked). That wouldnt be a very fun game, especially since the engine was a modified The Sims 2 engine.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Notorious B.O.B on March 18, 2007, 12:20:48 pm
Ermm lol over that outburst.



If you want so much

What I want was displayed in the prototypes and has since completely disappeared. If you look at intial models and the models now there are subtle differences which I simply see and become disappointed with. Seriously the prototype texture editor and the current texture editor end results are from entirely different worlds, my opinion is the prototype was infinitely better. Seriously anyone have the series of images that has the eyeless frog to show the obvious differences between then and now?

I know, I know....I might be simple and only comprised of a few hundred parts, but overall the options are almost limitless. More parts can be added to the game in order to expand on the initial content.

Parts aren't the inherent limitation I see, I see limitations in the ability to manipulate the "clay" Imagine a horseshoe, now imagne 10 of them all lined up forming a tunnel (obviously without a "bottom/floor")....not a body shape one could create in the editor as shown so far. The manipulation of the clay is extending, bending, and swelling...so far things like pinching, denting, flattening (which are things you can see in the early greyscale group shots of models) haven't been shown to be possible since.



I think I know what you're saying Proto, as far as limitations.  I wanna make a creature that has a very wide body in one dimension, but very flat in another dimension (like a pancake) Can I do that?  No idea.
And as far as pictures go, do you mean these?

 (http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/i354085_sporebeasts.bmp) (http://www.imagehosting.com)

 (http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/i354106_sporebig3.jpg) (http://www.imagehosting.com)

Those aren't dented, pinched, or flattened, they just appear so.
Also, I don't even know if those were made in Spore.  they could have been done in another animation program like maya, considering how long ago they were made.  I'm still looking for the eyeless frog, I think I know what you speak of (was that a Spore creature? I don't remember)

Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: potterrulez on March 18, 2007, 12:29:21 pm
I assume this is the frog your looking for...

(http://www.sporeev.com/gallery/albums/concept-art/012.jpg)
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Fatalfist on March 18, 2007, 12:37:29 pm
ya thats probly it and that ant no spore editor probly something they were using from miya or such to develope phisics
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Notorious B.O.B on March 18, 2007, 12:38:17 pm
I think that is the one.  Now the question is:  Is that even Spore?!

Secondly, we don't know if we can't do such things Proto.  Suffice to say that I hope we can, at least to some extent.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: potterrulez on March 18, 2007, 12:41:47 pm
Well that is a shot taken by the spore development team.  Obviously this image is from ages ago.  As you can see it is simply a modeled model, if you get me :P - as in not something created by dragging parts from a toolbar.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Protoavis on March 18, 2007, 01:52:25 pm

Those aren't dented, pinched, or flattened, they just appear so.

And how do they go about appearing so considering at that point they are textureless?

in the second group shot, the backrow creature on the right, pecs..big evil spider creature slight grooves/dents horizontally on it's body. Granted they aren't the most dramatic examples of manipulations that have gone AWOL, but they were there in that image.

ya thats probly it and that ant no spore editor probly something they were using from miya or such to develope phisics

The powerpoint it came from stated it was the prototype texture editor. You know work out the program so it can do it procedurally then create a user friendly interface. But from that to what we have now...downgrade.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: WhiteWolf7 on March 18, 2007, 01:58:51 pm
Well you can make the limbs muscles look bulky i would imagine you can with the body too

As for denting it looks like selecting a spot on the blob and wheeling the mouse wheel a tad could do that

Not to mention all the hands/feet/mouths etc can be morphed, pulled,strecthed etc. Creativiety is not an issue. But how does the look being slightly cartoony and creativity go hand in hand anyway?
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: flames on March 18, 2007, 01:59:22 pm
I don't mind the bad backround for the creature editor as long as the game is the same.I while ago I thought the back round was what the hole game was like and that made my go
"Ahhhh they ruined spore!" but then I realised it was just that and the microbe stage that was bad.I am so glad now and people just don't worry untill someone posts
"grafics proved to look like telitubie drawing"
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Dekadin on March 18, 2007, 02:31:22 pm
I guess it comes down to what matters most, gameplay or graphics. I mean geez the reason why Starcaft is still the number one RTS game in the world is because of gameplay not because of graphics. World of Warcraft and Counter-Strike can be said the same....people play more 'normal' counterstrike then they do source.
I think you're confusing style and graphics here. I don't really care about the quality of the graphics of spore, what I'm complaining about is the style. I love starcraft, I still play it to this day. Starcraft is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. It might not have the best graphics (compared to today's) but I still love the way the game looks. No one could call the artistic style of starcraft cartoony. I just can't stand the cartoony artistic style, that's all. And to all of those people saying "Well you can create realistic creatures if you want to...", I've seen no creatures demonstrating the level of realism I'm talking about, and in one of the presentations, they pretty much said that they've decided on the cartoony look for the game.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Lurker28 on March 18, 2007, 02:44:42 pm
I think that is the one.  Now the question is:  Is that even Spore?!

Secondly, we don't know if we can't do such things Proto.  Suffice to say that I hope we can, at least to some extent.

(http://www.sporeev.com/gallery/albums/concept-art/012.jpg)

This is actually a 3D Modeling tool, see the XYZ axis marking behind the frog it what you use to manipulate parts and the position. This does not in anyway, or has EVER reflected spore as a game...this was a slide in a presentation talking about how they brought spore from a conceptual standpoint to reality. They had another slide as well that had a very nicely textured turtle which again was modeled in Maya.

I do not know where the hell you got the idea that was spore, those are extremely powerful 3D Animation tools which takes years to master.

the game will allow you to make interesting creatures, but not as detailed as something you would see in LOTR or Harry Potter.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: potterrulez on March 18, 2007, 02:48:33 pm
I never said it was spore - i simply said it wasn't a random 3D model from the internet.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Lurker28 on March 18, 2007, 02:52:20 pm
I guess it comes down to what matters most, gameplay or graphics. I mean geez the reason why Starcaft is still the number one RTS game in the world is because of gameplay not because of graphics. World of Warcraft and Counter-Strike can be said the same....people play more 'normal' counterstrike then they do source.
I think you're confusing style and graphics here. I don't really care about the quality of the graphics of spore, what I'm complaining about is the style. I love starcraft, I still play it to this day. Starcraft is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. It might not have the best graphics (compared to today's) but I still love the way the game looks. No one could call the artistic style of starcraft cartoony. I just can't stand the cartoony artistic style, that's all. And to all of those people saying "Well you can create realistic creatures if you want to...", I've seen no creatures demonstrating the level of realism I'm talking about, and in one of the presentations, they pretty much said that they've decided on the cartoony look for the game.

That is funny you say you like Starcraft, when pretty much every game Blizzard has made...besides the Diablo series was designed in a style that was cartoonish in nature. Very exaggerated forms, even for 1998 there were games like Total Annihilation which far surpassed Starcraft in terms of "realism."

Style again is completely up to your opinion. I prefer more of a cartoonish or toy like world when I am crafting something like this. It is far to complicated for the developers to go 20 years ahead of our technology to come up with very fluid and realistically movable creatures. That is like saying you want an FPS game to have realistic bone breaking whens shooting someone in their knees, plus fully dynamic physics (only again found in Animation software, havok engine is not quite 'real life' nor is the rag doll effects), and do not for get an FPS which has Mental Ray (it is again a lighting system used when rendering out Animations, to help create more realistic reflextions and refractions of light)....If you wanted all these things in an FPS game you are going to have to wait another 5-10 years because the technology is not quite there nor is our computers.

With that said, spore would require a computer that does not exist to render out those images, you would be complaining about how slow it was running. People complain enough about Oblivion and how slow it runs on some of the top end computers, imagine that but 20x the amount of processor usage. It just isn't doable right now, you are expecting something far behind what you can even do.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: WhiteWolf7 on March 18, 2007, 02:57:54 pm

I've seen no creatures demonstrating the level of realism I'm talking about,

There are plenty of realistic creatures opposed to super cartooney (When i think cartooney i think goofy and donald)

The *realistic* your looking for is movie realistic or something absurd like that and spore never was that to begin with. Honestly theres not alot of change in the style from the GDC 05 Video and nows video. Cept the graphics are better but the style looks almost the same

Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Lurker28 on March 18, 2007, 03:01:53 pm
There are plenty of realistic creatures opposed to super cartooney (When i think cartooney i think goofy and donald)

The *realistic* your looking for is movie realistic or something absurd like that and spore never was that to begin with. Honestly theres not alot of change in the style from the GDC 05 Video and nows video. Cept the graphics are better but the style looks almost the same



I concur, very little has changed in terms of graphics...they style has shifted to a little "brighter" world, but again that is so minute it was not a life changing aspect of the style. Overall, the style has pretty much maintained itself over the past 2 years we have all been following the game. It is very hard to get a complete handle on the graphics in motion do to the blurry video quality, but you can understand.


(http://www.spore.com/screenshots/screenshot_3.jpg)

I mean seriously guys, you are telling me those are hyper realistic or more realistic textures then now? They are bland, the ground texture is blurry as all hell, it looks washed out...the damn grass looks like it has been painted on by a 3 year old, very simple lines. It is a little "dirtier" because they are in more of an arid desert area on the planet. The only thing that has a better texture than that of which I have seen in the previous spore videos might be the hut, which looks still more like a world of warcraft texture....nothing realistic AT ALL.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Dekadin on March 18, 2007, 03:06:29 pm
Quote
That is funny you say you like Starcraft, when pretty much every game Blizzard has made...besides the Diablo series was designed in a style that was cartoonish in nature.
I... what? First of all, that argument makes no sense. I never said anything about other games blizzard has made, and frankly I don't like their artistic style as much. They are totally different in terms of looks.

Quote
Style again is completely up to your opinion. I prefer more of a cartoonish or toy like world when blah blah blah... 20 years ahead of our technology... If you wanted all these things in an FPS game you are going to have to wait another 5-10 years...
I'm aware that it's my opinion, but I don't see what that has to do with anything. I'm expressing my opinion that spore looks too cartoony. As for the rest of what you said, I did say in one of my posts that spore is ahead of its time still. I still don't think technology is quite at the point where we can do this game justice yet, and I'd be willing to wait. I'm a patient man.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Lurker28 on March 18, 2007, 03:14:50 pm
I'm aware that it's my opinion, but I don't see what that has to do with anything. I'm expressing my opinion that spore looks too cartoony. As for the rest of what you said, I did say in one of my posts that spore is ahead of its time still. I still don't think technology is quite at the point where we can do this game justice yet, and I'd be willing to wait. I'm a patient man.

LoL, thank god you do not work in the gaming business or we would never have games like Starcraft. I wonder if they said "You Can't Do RTS Justice" When Westwood Studios released Dune or when Blizzard release Warcraft: Orcs and Humans.

There we be no RTS games today if it wasn't for those two companies feeding off each other. Those two games in the early to mid 90's were very controversial and were both critically acclaimed games.

Will took some huge steps forward to create this game, and he will do Spore justice. However, there we be other developers that will try to copy or take from his game and make something new from it. Also, Spore 2 might be released in 5-8 years down the road which will be able to do more. By saying they can not do it justice limits yourself, it seems as if you are saying "Why do it, if you can not live up to my expectations."

Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Dekadin on March 18, 2007, 03:17:04 pm
Quote
I mean seriously guys, you are telling me those are hyper realistic or more realistic textures then now? They are bland, the ground texture is blurry as all hell, it looks washed out...the damn grass looks like it has been painted on by a 3 year old, very simple lines. It is a little "dirtier" because they are in more of an arid desert area on the planet. The only thing that has a better texture than that of which I have seen in the previous spore videos might be the hut, which looks still more like a world of warcraft texture....nothing realistic AT ALL.
Yeah, that grass looks terrible, but for some reason I like the look of those creatures a little more than what I've seen recently. Could just be the quality of the pictures though, I'm not sure. They certainly look fantastic, but I think they look a little more... believable, with the proportions and the way the different parts of the body flow into one another. The tail looks a little off though... Also I'm fine with the hut, that doesn't bother me.

Besides, the issue isn't with the way it looked. When I first saw these, I assumed you'd be able to create less wacky creatures if you wanted to. Will did say you could recreate real world animals if you wanted, implying realism could be done. Since then they've essentially said you can't.

And hey I just realized, those trees in the background are different from the trees in all the other videos/pictures/whatever...
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: WhiteWolf7 on March 18, 2007, 03:52:25 pm


Besides, the issue isn't with the way it looked. When I first saw these, I assumed you'd be able to create less wacky creatures if you wanted to. Will did say you could recreate real world animals if you wanted, implying realism could be done. Since then they've essentially said you can't.


They never said you cant. They only said they decided on a more cartoony look because its easier to do. You can make realistic looking creatures..have you seen the editers and the creatures that spawned from them?. Tell me what exactly is stopping you?. The ones that look wacky look that way not because of a cartooney look but because thats the way they were made

When they said they decided on cartoony i think they meant cartoony like thier other games as opposed to what that new dog looks like in fable 2.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Fatalfist on March 18, 2007, 04:51:50 pm
the funny thing is that when they realy decided to have more of a cartoony aspect, that it wasnt a few months ago they already decided that years ago.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: helio-G on March 18, 2007, 08:49:39 pm
Spore is as cartoony or Realistic as you want it to be. Remember you have options. For me, its going to be realistic.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Tavenknaughtlin on March 18, 2007, 09:29:29 pm
You know they said they have the Advanced Editor in which you can put more detail in your creature. I'm almost 100% sure that how long you take on your creature truly determines how cartoony it looks.

And only the people who have actually used the editor can honestly talk about what it can or can not do, as they are the only ones with first hand knowledge. Anyone else is just speculating.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Bona Fide Supraman on March 19, 2007, 04:02:44 am
Will the pollinated content be able to see which creatures are realistic and which aren't?

Because it's all very well making a realistic creature, but if you then go into the world and it's full of garishly coloured things with big eyes, you'd be slightly annoyed
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Lurker28 on March 19, 2007, 04:35:14 am
Will the pollinated content be able to see which creatures are realistic and which aren't?

Because it's all very well making a realistic creature, but if you then go into the world and it's full of garishly coloured things with big eyes, you'd be slightly annoyed

I believe that is the fun of exploring other planets, to see what other people have created. However, I think I remember will saying that "your" planet will be pollinated with stuff that fits your style. The computer will try to come up with stuff to match not just your building style, but also your creature style as well, so your creature or other creatures do not look out of place on your planet.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: ChristianSkunk on March 19, 2007, 10:11:24 am
Will the pollinated content be able to see which creatures are realistic and which aren't?

Because it's all very well making a realistic creature, but if you then go into the world and it's full of garishly coloured things with big eyes, you'd be slightly annoyed

I believe that is the fun of exploring other planets, to see what other people have created. However, I think I remember will saying that "your" planet will be pollinated with stuff that fits your style. The computer will try to come up with stuff to match not just your building style, but also your creature style as well, so your creature or other creatures do not look out of place on your planet.

But how will an automatic system be able to tell if it's cartoony or not?  You could try to determine it by parts, coloring and patterns, but I'm sure I could take something classified as realistic and turn it cartoony.  I doubt that they could accurately determine that, but perhaps they could rely on the creator to mark it appropriately via checkboxes or something?  I suppose it's possible, I just don't see it working too well.  What would you do?  Compare the size of the eyes to the body?  Certain combinations of colors and patterns?  With the freedom you have in sizing and angling parts, it'd have to be very complicated and I'd rather them spend time on stuff I care about. ;)  It could be that the more interesting creatures would be classified as cartoony, even if they're highly realistic (for an imaginary alien creature).  And before someone suggests it, I also doubt they'd pay people to sit around and judge user created creatures submitted to the database.  Seems like a huge waste.  This made me think of a previous thread about copyrighted/sexual creatures.  The best solution in that thread was to rely on the users to vote or report inappropriate creations.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Lurker28 on March 19, 2007, 10:23:02 am
You say that, yet we have some evidence that suggest differently. Will has even said when using the search tool to find new cities, vehicles, etch made by the players, the computer will learn the way you like to make things...so technically the technology is right there, I do not see how it is to implement something like that. And no, it might not be a perfect match but at least it will help.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: ChristianSkunk on March 19, 2007, 10:42:27 am
You say that, yet we have some evidence that suggest differently. Will has even said when using the search tool to find new cities, vehicles, etch made by the players, the computer will learn the way you like to make things...so technically the technology is right there, I do not see how it is to implement something like that. And no, it might not be a perfect match but at least it will help.

Will said...  And yes, I'm the one who often says 'You must trust in The Will!'  The problem is you can't just say find similar things, you have to tell it how to judge what's similar.  Now, Amazon and similar sites do something like that with their suggestions, but they have it easy because everything's put into neat catagories and they can go by the 'people who bought this also bought these' things.  Eh.  It doesn't really matter.  We'll find out when we get the game.  I'd just prefer a rating system and worry that they would waste time trying to get a good system to judge that really doesn't work anyway.  It's like what he and Brian Eno talked about in their presentation about music...  As of yet there's no formula to figuring out what would be considered good.  Given all the variations they appear to be allowing in the editors, I'd think they'd have the same problem.  Also, buildings might be easier if parts were arranged according to architecture type, so a building with mostly Victorian pieces would be labed as Victorian, for example.  But if given the freedom with the body they promise, you could probably use the same parts but come up with a completely different creature depending on the shape of the body and where those parts are placed.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: SpaceOddity on March 19, 2007, 10:45:04 am
Most probably it's based on statistics. The game stores what you keep and what you reject. It will try to match the parameters of the things that you have kept in the next batch of items it will offer you. It will be a long term thing. The more selections you make, the better it will work. Personally I'm glad that you can browse also, as I'm am fickle, and need diversity in my game. :D
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: ChristianSkunk on March 19, 2007, 10:50:15 am
Most probably it's based on statistics. The game stores what you keep and what you reject. It will try to match the parameters of the things that you have kept in the next batch of items it will offer you. It will be a long term thing. The more selections you make, the better it will work. Personally I'm glad that you can browse also, as I'm am fickle, and need diversity in my game. :D

Yeah I thought of that too, and I don't think it'd be that difficult to program.  But as that last part suggests you also thought, it could lead to a less diverse universe...  There'd hopefully still be variation, but it could result in all similar sized, or limbed, or colored creatures.  And even then it might not weed out creatures that you would consider cartoony (that's the issue there, really;  Cartoony is in the eye of the beholder).
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: ChristianSkunk on March 19, 2007, 11:16:33 am
The database will probably not classify objects as cartoony or realistic... but will group objects that have been dismissed or favored by multiple people, and so if your preferences are similar to for instance Hydro's then stuff Hydro liked (that you haven't seen) would probably be headed your way.  Like online product suggestions based on previous purchase history.

That sounds similar to what I said earlier. ;)  It should be interesting at first when it has little or only developer preferences to judge with.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Protoavis on March 19, 2007, 04:04:39 pm

I mean seriously guys, you are telling me those are hyper realistic or more realistic textures then now?

it's never been an issue about hyper realistic graphics if you had managed to comprehend what people have been saying.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: WhiteWolf7 on March 19, 2007, 05:39:45 pm

I mean seriously guys, you are telling me those are hyper realistic or more realistic textures then now?

it's never been an issue about hyper realistic graphics if you had managed to comprehend what people have been saying.

Oh really? what it been about then?. *waits patiently*
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: nickmcdoz on March 20, 2007, 12:13:53 pm
My complaint is the new added videogameness. It totally took away from the experience of watching the game. The large icons everywhere, the multiple acid spitting monsters, the big ability things on the side of the screen, the lack of more realistic and less fast creatures on the screen, the stupid background of the editor, the "impossible" sporepedia creatures.

That's exactly what I had been thinking lately. It used to seem like a game about exploring. You were able to explore the world, discover new things, and enjoy looking at things. Now it seems to be all about playing a video game. It looks like it's all about interacting with other creatures, fighting, eating, surviving, constantly running from other creatures, which I don't really think leaves you much time to actually just walk around and enjoy the view. You have to focus too much on how you are going to play. I liked how few buttons there were, so you focused mostly just on the creature (I thought Will had said once that he wanted an almost buttonless view... but now the whole bottom of the screen is crammed with buttons). Now it seems like you have to think on what parts you are going to use or else you won't survive, or be able to pick fruits, or whatever, instead of just enjoying making your creature. I really liked the feel of the 2005 demo.

EXACTLY! IT's the BUTTONS!
And if you agree with me on this, dont you agree with me that the new sporepedia is a deprovement from what we last saw? I'm just not half as excited for it anymore. And to think I thought graphics were nothing, I'm a Wii fan and PS3 hater, but with this I realise its not the details of the graphics, its the way they are presented. The cards don't look like cards to me. Not with some 3D creature rotating on it. It was much cooler when you just got a snap of the creature, just one view, it was a real, tangible card, and it made you want to see it in action. Its not as cool. In fact I'm not in the least excited for it. The 3Dness takes away from it because it doesn't feel like I can go up to the screen and peel the card off the screen and really have it in my hand, and then go through outerspace to find what this card really represented, what this little 2D picture was like in real life.

EDIT: Taking this post and putting it in a Poll to see who likes what.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Lualmoba on March 20, 2007, 12:50:12 pm
Finally someone replied to that post! :P

I don't want to say anything about the Sporepedia yet since we don't really know much about it. And it seems to be fairly similar to the one before, even if the look has changed a bit.

But what really is bothering me are those huge buttons everywhere. *shivers*

Edit: Woot, I'm leet! ;D

Edit: Now I'm not. :'(
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: ChristianSkunk on March 20, 2007, 12:53:52 pm
Finally someone replied to that post! :P

I don't want to say anything about the Sporepedia yet since we don't really know much about it. And it seems to be fairly similar to the one before, even if the look has changed a bit.

But what really is bothering me are those huge buttons everywhere. *shivers*

Edit: Woot, I'm leet! ;D

Don't make another post or you'll lose it! ;D
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: DaMuncha on March 20, 2007, 11:12:50 pm
What gets me is, who on earth gave you the idea that "these creatures are too cartoony" or "the eyes on the creatures are way too big now" i mean, hello? the creatures are made by the players. They only look cartoony cause the player who made that creature made it look like that. You can also purge unwanted creatures from your universe and and the game fits to the style that you play as. If you dont want a creature that has big eyes and hands and looks to bright and cute, then dont create it like that.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: The_Kev on March 20, 2007, 11:16:30 pm
I think you are right, but the textures play a role too.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: WhiteWolf7 on March 20, 2007, 11:19:22 pm
You know whats a good example of cartooney. The upcoming empire earth 3.

Look at shots of it. Spore is not THAT cartoony
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: darkrayboy on March 20, 2007, 11:59:04 pm
I really like the look of spore now, if you look back at last years screens and stuff, you see when your ufo is was really close to a city how ugly the graphics looked. Now it is looking so damn good, and cartoony maby a little bit but i like it, you will make everything so you can make your creatures realistic (2 arms and 2 legs for example) or really cartoony( A nose on his ass) :P no spore is just great, really really great
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: The_Kev on March 21, 2007, 07:16:58 am
Does a nose on his ass make the creature cartoony? I don't think so, look, if I have a super realisctic dragon like creature, with a nose on his ass, it ain't cartoony.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: ChristianSkunk on March 21, 2007, 09:49:05 am
What gets me is, who on earth gave you the idea that "these creatures are too cartoony" or "the eyes on the creatures are way too big now" i mean, hello? the creatures are made by the players. They only look cartoony cause the player who made that creature made it look like that. You can also purge unwanted creatures from your universe and and the game fits to the style that you play as. If you dont want a creature that has big eyes and hands and looks to bright and cute, then dont create it like that.

Well, Will and the developers themselves say that they made it cartoony.  Granted, the "too" part is in the eye of the beholder.  It was in one of the DICE videos about how at first it was really realistic, and you could make a dog that really looked like a dog, but it wouldn't walk like a dog, and it was very disconcerting.  So, to paraphrase Ocean, they made it cartoony to cover up their failings.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Lurker28 on March 21, 2007, 01:50:04 pm
Well, Will and the developers themselves say that they made it cartoony.  Granted, the "too" part is in the eye of the beholder.  It was in one of the DICE videos about how at first it was really realistic, and you could make a dog that really looked like a dog, but it wouldn't walk like a dog, and it was very disconcerting.  So, to paraphrase Ocean, they made it cartoony to cover up their failings.

Not necessarily fails, just the lack of technology to go that far. Will and his team have already gone 5+ years in this technology that no one else has, they literally had to advise it way beyond its years. Yes, I will say some of the procedural animations now piss me off however, it is such an ambitious game I am hoping that in the future because of this game they will be able to amplify what Will and his team have done today.

It has always been cartoon like, ever since the GDC videos. I really think all you guys were smoking something when you viewed the blurry low quality 05 video. Seriously, they have already mentioned this a year or so again at E3...the decision to go for a "lighter" aesthetic was made long before the game even went public.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Dr. Croccer on March 24, 2007, 11:45:46 am
Will probably tried to make Spore more cartoony so more people (of the younger audience) would like it. A game with hoppers and willosaurs hopping around in a forest looks better for most people than Xenomorphs ripping eachothers heads of in a dark, desolate world.

Also, The cartoony-ish style = Will's style. The Moose-cow hybrids and Fish things with maces on their tails looked more realistic (well..)
than the Willosaurs and Screebles. And they were made by other guys from Maxis. And remember the huge spider things from GDC 2005?
'Nothing friendly about them. And Will's city in the GDC 2005 video was cartoony, but the other city was far more realistic.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: SBD on March 25, 2007, 02:13:43 am
at first the new cartoonyness annoyed me, but now i think i can live with it. I don't see why i can't laugh at this game to enjoy it.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Woulfe on March 25, 2007, 05:52:01 am
How I see this issue.....

1. Too realistic = less sales to the general public
2. Too cartoony = less sales to rabid gamers
3. Something in-between = equal sales to both

I think they're trying to get a balance between the two, but so far all we've seen is the cartoony side, which is to aim it at the large casual gamer market. (the same one that bought The Sims namely.)

Needless to say I'm certain with the editors you can go both ways in designing your stuff, you can make something uber realistic or ultra cartoony or something in-between. (up to you namely.)

- W -
* my $0.02 *
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Dr. Croccer on March 26, 2007, 07:30:19 am
There are some realistic sides to Spore: i.e. blood that appears near a dead creature, the Tribal age battles (none showed so far but confirmed) Tanks nuking cities (seen) and mass destruction of planets (seen).
Blood isn't so good for the common people methinks, 'cause in the GDC 2005 video the audience didn't respond positivally when the Willosaur killed the Hopper and when the UFO dropped the Spiderthing on the moon who exploded.
Also, pretty much every Maxis game had something cartoony to them (like The Sims, Simplanet and Simant) and they selled good too, people loved the games (myself included) so why should Spore be any different?
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Slartibartfast on March 26, 2007, 07:34:46 am
the Tribal age battles (none showed so far but confirmed)
Here: Tribal Phase (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6Q8iZWaJkc)
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Len84 on March 26, 2007, 07:59:03 am

Blood isn't so good for the common people methinks, 'cause in the GDC 2005 video the audience didn't respond positivally when the Willosaur killed the Hopper and when the UFO dropped the Spiderthing on the moon who exploded.

If I remember correctly, the crowd was laughing at the Spiderthing on the moon. Can't remember about the hopper thing though :P
Taking out the blood (if they have done so) would probably be for age restrictions really.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: The_Kev on March 26, 2007, 10:00:38 am
Think you are right. Still a little blood doesn't care.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: ChristianSkunk on March 26, 2007, 04:42:26 pm
Funny how you can't show blood when a predator attacks and eats prey, a perfectly natural thing, but you can show a planet with a population in the millions if not billions being destoryed. 

Quote from: Professor Farnsworth
The Jedi are going to feel this one...
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: DaMuncha on March 26, 2007, 04:52:24 pm
If a kid ACCIDENTLY cuts him self with a craft knife , he's gonna see blood. Its part of life, deal with it!
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: uj on March 26, 2007, 06:23:57 pm
If a kid cuts him self with a craft knife, he's gonna see blood. Its part of life, deal with it!

Er..cuting yourself with a knife is part of life?
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Snake on March 26, 2007, 06:25:10 pm
He meant seeing blood.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Cow on March 26, 2007, 06:31:49 pm
He probably meant on accident, but it's just like scraping your knee or getting beat up by that puberty deformed monster at school.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: The_Kev on March 27, 2007, 10:21:21 am
You guys are totally right, if they will never see blood, and they see it later (yes, they will eventually) they will be shocked. It's good to view some blood in games. Blood is a sort of sign of needing help, they need to see it.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Veraal on March 27, 2007, 02:07:16 pm
What does not kill you, makes you stronger ;)
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Cow on March 27, 2007, 02:09:42 pm
Are you saying when I broke my leg I got stonger? Reeeaaaly.

Actually whe will broke his arm he got a mega arm powerup!
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: ChristianSkunk on March 27, 2007, 02:32:42 pm
Actually, yes.  The mended portion is stronger than the rest of the bone.

But back to the what doesn't kill me part...  Say that after you've had a stroke or chemo.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Kcronos on March 27, 2007, 02:37:14 pm
I think the reason it is cartoony is because they aren't wizards, and cannot despite all programming efforts design a creature that moves realistically.  It is because people have assumptions about what a certain creature is supposed to move like, and if a 7 year old makes a realistic pony, and it moves like a dog or a camel, they will cry...

I for one like it for its concept.  They tried their hardest, and now they have to integrate that into a game...
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: ChristianSkunk on March 27, 2007, 02:51:52 pm
I think the reason it is cartoony is because they aren't wizards, and cannot despite all programming efforts design a creature that moves realistically.  It is because people have assumptions about what a certain creature is supposed to move like, and if a 7 year old makes a realistic pony, and it moves like a dog or a camel, they will cry...

I for one like it for its concept.  They tried their hardest, and now they have to integrate that into a game...

That was what Ocean said in the SXSW video, I believe.  They were able to make a realistic looking dog, but it wouldn't move like a dog.  He said it was very disturbing and would make children cry.  So he and Will (the realistic guys) were forced to go to the cartoony camp (the others).  Just what this means, I don't know...  Does it mean you can no longer make a realistic dog?
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: spore on March 27, 2007, 03:45:12 pm
What I think will is getting at is, because the animation is procedurally created. Creating realistic four legged animals walking realistically would have meant investing in time and energy into finding a  procedural animation for four legged earth creatures like dogs and horses, so to obvious thing to do was to go with the procedural animation cycles they have and make them believable i.e. Cartoon like.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Chaosdwarft on March 28, 2007, 01:11:15 am
and cartony creatures bring a little fun to life, which is normaly very rough and cruel
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: DaMuncha on March 28, 2007, 04:03:02 am
which is normaly very rough and cruel

Just the way we realists like it.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: wydraz on March 28, 2007, 06:29:34 am
It's only as cartoony as you make it.

Look at the creatures in this wallpaper: http://home.nycap.rr.com/wydraz/spore/Spore_wallpaper01.jpg (http://home.nycap.rr.com/wydraz/spore/Spore_wallpaper01.jpg) and you can see only one of the three featured there would be considered "cartoony". The other two are quite realistic looking if you ask me.

I just think it depends on how you make your creatures. The ones we've seen in the recent videos are cartoony because that's how they were built. If you want more realistic creatures in your galaxy, make them that way.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Chaosdwarft on March 28, 2007, 12:40:16 pm
which is normaly very rough and cruel

Just the way we realists like it.

realism is fine, the best would a realism/cartoon switch to change the overall look of the game  ::)
I guess i have to stop dreaming  :'(
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: spore on March 28, 2007, 02:29:24 pm
That bird creatue looked very good, I think it will be difficult for most spore players to make good content, that could be another reason will has approched from the cartoony direction. Realy good content could probbly make anything thay want, given enough time. New players are more likely able to build playable cartoony creature that look quite good, than being able to build a klingon care bare cockroach monster from the planet poop.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: wydraz on March 28, 2007, 05:06:28 pm
That bird creatue look very good, I think it will be difficult for most spore players to make good content...

True, but even if 1% can do it, then assuming an eventual 100,000 users, there will be over a thousand good content makers in the community!
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: The_Kev on March 29, 2007, 05:21:38 am
It's only as cartoony as you make it.

Look at the creatures in this wallpaper: http://home.nycap.rr.com/wydraz/spore/Spore_wallpaper01.jpg (http://home.nycap.rr.com/wydraz/spore/Spore_wallpaper01.jpg) and you can see only one of the three featured there would be considered "cartoony". The other two are quite realistic looking if you ask me.

I just think it depends on how you make your creatures. The ones we've seen in the recent videos are cartoony because that's how they were built. If you want more realistic creatures in your galaxy, make them that way.
Totally agree with you, 100%
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Kcronos on March 30, 2007, 08:28:00 pm
I for one, want to create a creature with big eyes that isn't cartoony...

Do you think their will be eye parts for that?

How will it synch if you have normal eyes, and everything else has cartoon eyes?
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Brutus on March 31, 2007, 04:02:14 am
so what? the game is a bit cartoony, does it matter, you can make your creature look evil and then you can only download other noncartoony creatures
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Protoavis on March 31, 2007, 02:34:29 pm
so what? the game is a bit cartoony, does it matter, you can make your creature look evil and then you can only download other noncartoony creatures

An evil pixar reject is still a cartoon, you might aswell have said cartoons dont have villians.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Brutus on March 31, 2007, 03:03:13 pm
the creature stage only looks cartoony because of how imaginative the creatures are, make you creature look realistic and all will be well.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: jnaymie on February 18, 2008, 03:41:48 am
Ok one thing... why do all the eyes of the tide pool phase have their eyes pointing straight up. Can we not have that or is that the way all tide pool creatures look cause that looks absolutely retarded...
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: CosmicD on February 18, 2008, 05:11:02 am
i wish that people would think about what they were going to complain about when it was realistic, probably you can't make an entire universe with crysis phisics and realism, because then you need a 10.000$ 2 x 8 core workstation :P WHo is going to buy that ?

Spore is spore, like the simpsons are the simpsons, it's a style which I like. Ofcoruse People can not like the style: but then there will be complaints about system specs i'm sure.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Miclee on February 18, 2008, 06:02:13 am
WW has said a ton of times the specs will be near-Sims 2 requirements.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: SpaceOddity on February 18, 2008, 06:17:20 am
The mantra they seem to go by is: "If you've bought a computer within the last five years, you'll be able to play it."
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: CosmicD on February 18, 2008, 07:44:32 am
well yeas, but waht I'm saying is that, if everyone starts expecting "realistic" spore,  Then you need an uber pc :)
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Petike on February 18, 2008, 08:50:33 am
WW has said a ton of times the specs will be near-Sims 2 requirements.
He didn't ever say anything like that!
So stop saying quotations from him  that he didn't say.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: econundrum on February 18, 2008, 09:24:21 am
To be honest Iím not sure where this is coming from, spore has always been cartoon like in style. Look at the sort of colour palette and creatures in the early videos in one of the early interviews they talk about creating and automatically animating creatures in spore that would take Pixar (the cartoon computer animation people), months.

Yes the background in the creature editor has been given a cartoon look in keeping with the rest of the game and the microbe stage has certainly been made a little more cartoon like, other than that the style has never changed.

Also is realistic spore possible at the moment? Do the creature animations only really work with a cartoon like style? If the graphics looked photo realistic would we start thinking the movement wasnít realistic enough. After all some of the creatures you can create in spore would have to bend the laws of both physics and natural selection to exist in the real world.

Also if your going to make the creatures look realistic better give the planets a realistic scale and populationÖ..oops now your computer canít model even one planet because of lack of memory,  processing power and storage.

So no Iím not disappointed because I always new spore had a cartoon style.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Ultramarine on February 18, 2008, 09:35:55 am
WW has said a ton of times the specs will be near-Sims 2 requirements.
He didn't ever say anything like that!
So stop saying quotations from him  that he didn't say.

Well not exactly, in one of his demonstrations/interviews he said if you can run the sims 2 you can run spore. But I digress, that was one of his older demos that I can't seem to find but I know that the graphically requirenments for the game aren't that high. Hopefully :P
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Miclee on February 18, 2008, 09:37:29 am
WW has said a ton of times the specs will be near-Sims 2 requirements.
He didn't ever say anything like that!
So stop saying quotations from him  that he didn't say.

He has.... I can recall it from an interview in 06-07...
Here: I got this quote from a different Spore forum.

Quote from: Jik_ff
WW has stated that the way the game is being built (the engine and all) the requirements will be relatively low for a game like this (and release time).  He boasts that it will have similar requirements as the Sims 2.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Petike on February 19, 2008, 08:17:15 am
WW has said a ton of times the specs will be near-Sims 2 requirements.
He didn't ever say anything like that!
So stop saying quotations from him  that he didn't say.

Well not exactly, in one of his demonstrations/interviews he said if you can run the sims 2 you can run spore. But I digress, that was one of his older demos that I can't seem to find but I know that the graphically requirenments for the game aren't that high. Hopefully :P
I even opened a topic, asking for the link of it's source, and no one could find it. Is I see this "quotation" anywhere, I ask for a confirmation, but no one could give it to me, not even a thread that discusses directly the source of this quotation, just excuses like that: "I'm sure I saw it somewhere"  :P

I'm 97% sure that this is only a myth
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Lippy on February 19, 2008, 08:28:27 am
I've been following the game a long time since GDC 2005,  but I first heard that that demo was using a modified Sims 2 engine a week ago.  I've never seen the source for that, but that could be where people started getting the idea that if you could play the Sims 2, you should be able to play Spore.  After all, if the game uses the Sims 2 engine, it should have the same requirements, right?  ::)
 
And no, Spore is not too cartoony.   ;D
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: The_Kev on February 19, 2008, 09:12:53 am
Look at the new logo, the newsletter. I think they definatly wanna go to the cartoony side...
and I don't think you need a super computer if Spore was not cartoony.
Ofcourse I don't demand Crysis-like-graphics, because that is not relevant. A realistic game doesn't need good graphics.
You need to see the difference.
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: CosmicD on February 19, 2008, 12:01:13 pm
umm, if you talk about realistic, your right i didn't really nuance, between realistic graphics, physics and gameplay. Cartoony games could even have realistic physics: the topic was "is spore too cartoony" so I was thinking graphics in the first place, also because the general discourse with the "anti cartoon" camp seems to be that the game looked better at gdc05. (i didn't really thinkso but ok)..
Title: Re: Is spore too cartoony?
Post by: Gorman Conall on February 19, 2008, 12:16:52 pm
The games not cartooney period. If you don't believe me ill bring up pictures of cartooney games.