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Random Encounters => Site News => Topic started by: Oviraptor on October 29, 2006, 11:04:01 am

Title: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Oviraptor on October 29, 2006, 11:04:01 am
So, should Forum Games' posts count? Please vote and give your reasons as to why you voted the way you did.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Lualmoba on October 29, 2006, 11:08:04 am
Stopping Forum Games' posts from counting is a good measure against spam.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Samog on October 29, 2006, 11:17:55 am
Once the novelty of the thread's idea wears off, the point of most forum games is to post as much as possible.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Daxx on October 29, 2006, 11:24:46 am
Whilst post count obviously doesn't and probably shouldn't entirely determine a poster's status, I believe it should at least reflect their contributions to the forum. I don't see forum games as "contributing", as such. It's basically a place to spam, which I believe this forum shouldn't encourage through a reward such as increased postcount. Of course those are entirely normative statements based on my own opinion.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: PatMan33 on October 29, 2006, 02:17:01 pm
Back when we were discussing changing some of the ways the forum works we came to the conclusion that removing the post count in forum games is useless.

The way to solve your problem with forum games is to enforce the rules of each thread.



However, if you do remove post counts you will also have to deal with the people who are going to lose some of their status.

Yeah we all say that post count is useless but you would be upset if you suddenly lost a thousand of your posts.


But, try it and see what happens.


I just have to wonder... why are you bringing it up now? You were given a place to discuss this exact same issue months ago and you chose not to.

Is something going on?
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Oviraptor on October 29, 2006, 02:51:10 pm
Well that place was never the right place to discuss this. But there really isn't anything to worry about. I think this poll is long overdue.

While I don't want to get into a debate myself, let me just say that those of you who voted for "Yes" aren't helping yourselves by not posting anything.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: shadowlord18 on October 29, 2006, 03:01:59 pm
i voted yes.

i know it is weird coming from on the most avid furom gamers here. how ever i think they shouldn't if steve would make a rping thread becuse i think posts in rps should count. not the rest like the ban chain game.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: PatMan33 on October 29, 2006, 03:10:42 pm
Well that place was never the right place to discuss this. But there really isn't anything to worry about. I think this poll is long overdue.

While I don't want to get into a debate myself, let me just say that those of you who voted for "Yes" aren't helping yourselves by not posting anything.

That place had all of the people who were concerned about it. YOU never showed up.

You could have at least said something instead of ignoring us.



And I think it is something to worry about. Removing the post count is not going to stop whatever spam is going on there. The forum will be as annoying as ever, except none of it will count toward people's tally.


You are not solving anything by making posts not count. Nobody is going to give a hoot about anything you do unless you dole out punishments for people who break your rules. Don't punish everyone. deal with the people who cause the problem.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Oviraptor on October 29, 2006, 03:19:32 pm
Well that place was never the right place to discuss this. But there really isn't anything to worry about. I think this poll is long overdue.

While I don't want to get into a debate myself, let me just say that those of you who voted for "Yes" aren't helping yourselves by not posting anything.

That place had all of the people who were concerned about it. YOU never showed up.

You could have at least said something instead of ignoring us.

Okay, I DID show up. But it seemed to die quickly after I did. And having that few of members is not enough to represent the entire forum.

And I never said my reasons for posting, so don't assume that's why I did. I am trying to remain neutral here, I don't want to sway the vote.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Daxx on October 29, 2006, 03:23:38 pm
Well that place was never the right place to discuss this. But there really isn't anything to worry about. I think this poll is long overdue.

While I don't want to get into a debate myself, let me just say that those of you who voted for "Yes" aren't helping yourselves by not posting anything.

That place had all of the people who were concerned about it. YOU never showed up.

You could have at least said something instead of ignoring us.

You didn't exactly help it by being the good rebel leader and only inviting those of us in the clique to that area of the forum. In fact, you deliberately excluded LadyM and Ovi until most of the way through the discussion.

What's more, Pat, I don't think that particular effort came up with anything constructive or reasonable, since people seemed to have very strong and different feelings on what the problem actually was.

I feel the problem is that having post counts in Forum Games encourages people to spam.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: PatMan33 on October 29, 2006, 03:25:09 pm
Fine fine.

Still though, removing the post count will not do anything. If you are expecting the spam posts to suddenly go away then you are mistaken.


You know what would be a wild change? Remove ALL of the post counts... then EVERYONE is on the same level (don't deny that a certain amount of notoriety comes with post counts) and any fame a person does garner is done through genuine achievement and not a number.


That could be cool!


Also Daxx, we did come up with some good stuff. Where do you think my argument you are hearing now came from?
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Daxx on October 29, 2006, 03:30:27 pm
Also Daxx, we did come up with some good stuff. Where do you think my argument you are hearing now came from? I didn't pull it out of my ass even though I am sure you wish I had so that you could point out how wrong I am.

Granted, you did say that. But there was never any proper discussion on your (or anyone else's, for that matter) ideas. For instance, I would disagree with certain aspects of your argument, but for the sake of not sidetracking from what I considered were the important issues at the time I didn't say anything. Similarly, I don't think we would have had enough insight considering how few people were there.

But anyway, I'm not sure this is relevant. Remember kids, Forum 17 does not exist.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: PatMan33 on October 29, 2006, 03:32:16 pm
Understood.

Still... I think removing all post counts could work out well. Then nobody is pissed by losing more posts than the other guy.



Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: LadyM on October 29, 2006, 03:41:53 pm
Ovi did show up, I'm the one that didn't show up. You have to understand that it's awkward to be in that position. We want to help the forum and we want be here for the members but discussing our mod duties and the powers we have is not something we're suppose to do. To be honest, I wasn't entirely comfortable in that situation though I did appreciate being included in the discussion. Things have improved since that time and alot of good came out of it even if you don't realize it. We did care and we do care.

Nothing is going on here other than a poll to find out what people think. People have different opinions and the topic has come up. There are no current plans to change anything.


Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: PatMan33 on October 29, 2006, 03:48:46 pm
Okay then.

Well... an on topic debate!

I think that removing the post counts in Forum Games will not solve the problem, but keeping the post counts in Forum Games it not going to help anything either.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Manna on October 29, 2006, 04:26:21 pm
I think post counts are important for new members. I've noticed that new comers to the forums often have some question about spore they want answered and if 15 people reply, sometimes it's hard to determine which answers are useful and which are just guesses from other new comers. The post count isn't the definitive proof that your point of view is the correct one but it can certainly help determine how seriously you may be taking the topic. If your post count is made from spamming 1 word responses to forum games then I cant see that it is a useful contribution to the forum and I dont see how it would help a new comer to determine if this post is helpful or not.

On the other hand, the role play forum games, riddle me this and other such threads where a great deal of thought and effort has to go into the post could be considered to be beneficial to the thread, if not for the sake of the spore forums then definitely for the entertainment factor of the forums in general. I've seen how long it can take for someone to formulate a post for the role play threads and I think it would be a shame if this wasn't counted as contribution to the forum. Unfortunately, I dont see how you can determine WHICH forum games are positive contributions and which are just spam.

Programming forums often use a system whereby the newbies vote on how helpful a poster has been in answering a question. In this system a poster with a high number of points is more likely to give you useful advice but this system can be abused by users with a personal vendetta and I can certainly see people taking it to heart which I'm sure would be more trouble than it's worth.

I guess I'm going to vote that forum games shouldn't count towards post counts because I think that makes post counts the most useful, but I will be sorry to see those more epic games not count towards post counts if it does change. If the system were to change is there any way that it could only start not counting from now? IE, any posts made in the forum games before today DO count so people aren't upset by a sudden lack of posts?
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Lualmoba on October 29, 2006, 04:35:11 pm
I think people retain their post counts when it's done after people have already posted, they just don't get any more posts added to their counts. At least that's how it works in the forum I have...

It isn't SMF, though.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: stuck on October 29, 2006, 05:40:47 pm
I've seen a few forums where instead of implementing a "post count", they'd give an option to give a member points. The more thought-provoking, relevant, interesting, well-thought out [insert positive adjective] the post was, the more members would give the poster kudos, and he'd have a higher count. It just makes perfect sense. Though this system has the potential of being abused, post count is already abused.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Manna on October 29, 2006, 05:47:36 pm
I've seen a few forums where instead of implementing a "post count", they'd give an option to give a member points. The more thought-provoking, relevant, interesting, well-thought out [insert positive adjective] the post was, the more members would give the poster kudos, and he'd have a higher count. It just makes perfect sense. Though this system has the potential of being abused, post count is already abused.

I'm sorry, did I not just say that?

Programming forums often use a system whereby the newbies vote on how helpful a poster has been in answering a question. In this system a poster with a high number of points is more likely to give you useful advice but this system can be abused by users with a personal vendetta and I can certainly see people taking it to heart which I'm sure would be more trouble than it's worth.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: stuck on October 29, 2006, 05:53:54 pm
Yea you did. Forgot to add the part that stated "Manna just said this, but I thought it needed some reinforcement, as it is not only implemented in programming forums and could work here".
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Manna on October 29, 2006, 05:56:06 pm
Noted, just making sure I'm not talking to myself  :)
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Daxx on October 29, 2006, 06:02:24 pm
Well, I for one have only seen that system once, and it was horribly abused (and as a consequence ignored) and subsequently removed, even with (perhaps especially with) a page to track karma increases/decreases. Perhaps that was not the best introduction to it, but I would hate to see the same thing here.

EDIT: I was reading up on this, and apparently they have/had this system at GameFAQs. Does it work there?
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Manna on October 29, 2006, 06:08:46 pm
I've seen it at gamedev. it works well there because it helps to know the person you're asking for programming advice is competent. Unfortunately the moderators at gamedev are power hungry scum and they abuse the system by lowering people's hard earned kudos as a punishment for not worshiping them as god. I dont think we would have that kind of problem here, since our moderators are decent human beings.

unless they suddenly become...DRUNK WITH POWER!!!  da da daaaaa....
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: PatMan33 on October 29, 2006, 06:23:53 pm
GameFAQs should be the model of things NOT to do unless you want a forum full of babbling idiots.

The only think Karma is used for at GameFAQs is to say, "I have more Karma than you so you are wrong.".


Don't use Karma.


I hate to linger on this but Karma and prestige points were all discussed during the reform thing and we didn't think any of them would work here.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Piloteer on October 29, 2006, 07:16:34 pm
Giving a member "good points" is a terrible system to use. The Sims 2 forum uses this system, and it becomes horribly abused, and the board becomes filled with posts promising a certain amount of points for answers to questions.

Pat is right in that removing Forum Game post counts won't completely eliminate spam, but it certainly won't hurt, and would probably even help.

It is true that post counts do make certain members appear smarter and more experienced, and in many cases this is true, and helps new members know who to ask and who to trust.

However, there is also a false sense of noteriety given to those who 2/3 of their posts are in the Forum Games section, where no real thought or knowledge is required to post, yet their post count appears the same as those who do give real thought to their posts and help fellow members in
sections other than Forum Games.

I think that post counts should be eliminated from this forum. However, I think that the "Mario Stars" (or "Mario Clouds" for the Mods) should remain visible, and upgrade in the same way that they do now (1-99 posts=1 Star, etc.) This would eliminate people competing for post counts, yet inform new members who the "usual" participants of the forum are.

Every system can become abused in one way or another, but I think that this would certainly be an improvment.

I also want to thank Oviraptor for bringing this discussion up. I think it is important for all members to have the chance to take part and discuss how the forum is run, and what they would like to see changed. This is our forum (or rather Steve's, but you know what I mean ;)); it is important that we all have the ability to take part and have a say in how we believe the forum should be run.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: PatMan33 on October 30, 2006, 08:55:24 am
Keeping the starts is going to cause the same troubles that post counts have.

You either remove all of it or none of it. Keeping any part of it is not doing anything to change the problem.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Mr. Wizard on October 30, 2006, 01:35:44 pm
I believe Kaze made this point when we were discussing this a while back. If spammers are doing it just for post count in forum games then removing post count from that forum would cause them to reach the conclusion that they would need to spam everywhere but there to increase post count.


When we were discussing it before, we concluded that we should completely remove the post count from under the names, and leave the stars and title. Posts would still be counted, but only visible on the profile page. From there a person can check statistics to see where that person posts the most, and their total time logged in.

Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Samog on October 30, 2006, 01:51:53 pm
I believe Kaze made this point when we were discussing this a while back. If spammers are doing it just for post count in forum games then removing post count from that forum would cause them to reach the conclusion that they would need to spam everywhere but there to increase post count.
The difference between Forum Games and everywhere else is that Forum Games is supposed to be the only place where rules are bendable (read: ignored) and they're technically supposed to be enforced in the other forums.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: PatMan33 on October 30, 2006, 02:31:24 pm
When we were discussing it before, we concluded that we should completely remove the post count from under the names, and leave the stars and title. Posts would still be counted, but only visible on the profile page. From there a person can check statistics to see where that person posts the most, and their total time logged in.

I thought it was that ALL post count references were removed from the main page, including stars.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Manna on October 30, 2006, 02:34:47 pm
nah, I cant see why there'd be a problem with stars, I mean if spammers are doing it just for the post count then they're gonna get capped at 5 stars and the novelty will wear off.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: PatMan33 on October 30, 2006, 02:51:19 pm
I see your point... however I just think that you will still have the problem with people who have one star and people who have five stars...
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Daxx on October 30, 2006, 03:18:31 pm
Well, why not combine the two? Since spamming is prohibited elsewhere in the forums (read outside forum games, where it's practically encouraged), it will be much more difficult to spam your way up to 5 stars.
When you take out post count, you remove the most obvious reward for spamming (whilst stars are still a reward, I'd like to hope that they are less of one than postcount, because the milestones in star acquisition are fewer and further between).
Whilst removing all indication of seniority might cut down on spam, it does remove the ability of a new member to determine who is likely to be giving "better" information.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Manna on October 30, 2006, 03:21:06 pm
I agree with Daxx, I think that would be the best solution.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: PatMan33 on October 30, 2006, 03:51:26 pm
Oh so get rid of post count and turn the stars into the only means of telling how many posts a person has? That could work...


I guess my major hang up is that after spending an advanced amount of time on the internet I have been trained believe that when you think a person can not possibly be so stupid or desperate as to not do something, they go and do it and set a new low.

While I think all of our ideas are great and will each have their own level of success, I think that in this environment we need to put some serious thought into it and not accept any one idea because it is inevitable someone will find a way to ruin it.

What we need is a plan that solves our problems and at the same time tries to deter people from wanting to get around it.


Do you see my point?



Right now we have a few paths to take.

We have:

1) Don't do anything.

2) Remove post count from the main page and only allow it to be seen in a person's profile.

3) Only show the "stars".

4) Show the "stars" on the main page and posts in the profile.

5) Get rid of all indicators of post count.


Is there anything else?


I think an important thing to consider is that there needs to be more moderator action taken. If there was a serious punishment for breaking these rules then they would not be broken. Start handing out suspensions for rule breakers. That sounds like a good deterrent to me!
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Manna on October 30, 2006, 04:14:13 pm
I think an important thing to consider is that there needs to be more moderator action taken. If there was a serious punishment for breaking these rules then they would not be broken. Start handing out suspensions for rule breakers. That sounds like a good deterrent to me!

Forums run by moderators with an iron fist are not fun.

I think the moderators of this particular forum are unobtrusive and because they rarely involve themselves in little scuffles they've earned alot more respect from us and we are more inclined to sit up and pay attention when they do think it is necessary to put in a warning. I wouldn't like to see that change.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: PatMan33 on October 30, 2006, 04:18:43 pm
Yeah and because of that people think they can walk all over the mods here.

And you know what? That can!


I will cite an example. Zombie told me that he did not care what he did because the Moderators would not do anything about what he did. And he was right. It was MONTHS before someone actually got up and did something about him and by then all of his damage had been done.

I am not saying the Moderators are lazy but they are too laid back when it comes to exercising their power.

Troublemakers here do not associate what they do with any form of punishment. That needs to change.

LadyM telling someone to stop is not going to do all that much when the person on the other side does not really care.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Oviraptor on October 30, 2006, 04:22:58 pm
Yeah and because of that people think they can walk all over the mods here.

And you know what? That can!


I will cite an example. Zombie told me that he did not care what he did because the Moderators would not do anything about what he did. And he was right. It was MONTHS before someone actually got up and did something about him and by then all of his damage had been done.

I am not saying the Moderators are lazy but they are too laid back when it comes to exercising their power.

Troublemakers here do not associate what they do with any form of punishment. That needs to change.

LadyM telling someone to stop is not going to do all that much when the person on the other side does not really care.

PatMan, you don't know the whole story. There is a lot more to it than that. However, I can't go into any details, so don't ask.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: PatMan33 on October 30, 2006, 04:25:30 pm
Look, I don't want to get bogged down in the details but I know just as much about this as you do. You can go confirm that if you want.


I know what he said and I know what he thought and I know that he was correct in all of it.


Only after he got EVERYONE mad at him did something finally happen.


Look, all I am saying is that if you want to live in a spam-free forum you are going to have to sacrifice some of the freedoms you enjoy.

And hey, if you follow the rules then you have nothing to worry about!
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Oviraptor on October 30, 2006, 04:30:48 pm
Actually I do  know the whole story. I was involved with that more than you probably think.

PatMan, trust me, there is more, or you wouldn't have said what you did. But it is really irrelevant to the topic, so let's move on.

Edit: (At Patman vv) I didn't see your edit until you just posted. But it hardly matters anyway. Let's move one.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: PatMan33 on October 30, 2006, 04:32:08 pm
Fine fine.

But I edited my post so don't ignore it because I know you saw it.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Manna on October 30, 2006, 04:41:39 pm
Sacrifice some of my freedom? I'm sorry, when did SPAM == Terrorism?

I dont see why we need to sacrifice anything, the spam is constrained for the most part to the forum games and there's lots of people who just enjoy the forum games and aren't going to stop because you take away the post count. I agree that the post count's could limit unnecessary spam and the stars are still useful to determine if someone is likely to know what they're on about but I think the general friendliness of the forum is a testiment to the success of the moderator's minimal involvement. Sure, you can name a bunch of incidents where bad things have happened and punishment was necessary and i'm happy to admit that there will be circumstances the mods need to intervene, thats why we have moderators in the first place! But for the most part and the day to day running of the forums the moderators have a good thing going and dont need to change their system.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: PatMan33 on October 30, 2006, 04:47:54 pm
This wasn't about spam anyway... sorry about that. Also sorry I was so... aggressive  with you, Oviraptor.

I vote that we remove post counts in Forum Games then.


I swear this issue is cursed.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Daxx on October 30, 2006, 05:20:41 pm
I'm happy with the effectiveness of social pressure and our moderators to ensure that that any potential Spam outside Forum Games will be minimised and contained. I think that addresses at least one of the criticisms people had of removing post count in Forum Games, though I don't know to what extent other people agree with me.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: PatMan33 on October 30, 2006, 05:31:56 pm
No actually that sounds about right...

Good work!

 ;D
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Manna on October 30, 2006, 05:38:31 pm
As long as people are polite about it I dont see why it wouldn't work. Just so long as it doesn't turn into something akin to butchering the newbie coz they posted a topic that already exists. That bugs me.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Cobra on October 30, 2006, 06:43:04 pm
I know i have posted things sometimes that can probably be considared spam-ish look at the off topic topic and techincally the australian themed topic which I created as more of a specialized off topic topic. Although i would credit some of my spamming to having to much time on my hands at work sometimes. I think it should be up to everyone to minimize spamming. I'm trying to stop any spam I might end up posting and when it comes to other just have to make sure we dont suddenly lynch someone for posting what might be spam.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Krakow Sam on October 31, 2006, 05:29:42 am
I say either remove forum games postcounts or start moderating that forum more heavily.

By that I mean put an end to all the crap like the Moving Text Game or any game that involves counting upwards. Does anyone actually think that counting in 2s is fun?
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Gungnir on October 31, 2006, 12:49:31 pm
I say make forum games not count at all.

However, if it's a role-play that's not totally random, like an actual role play....sure. Maybe have a seperate section of the forum games forum for that.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Oviraptor on November 02, 2006, 05:50:30 pm
So am I hearing that people think RP's should count as posts? Cause you can't have some posts count and other not, in a board. I'd like to fully understand your reasoning for this, so I can take it into consideration. I want to make a thorough analysis.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Manna on November 02, 2006, 05:54:59 pm
If you take the time to read the those threads you'll see how much thought and planning goes into the role playing games. It takes a long time to think about and write something like that, its not just blurting out the first thing that comes into your head. As someone who doesn't take part in them, I feel I can be a bit impartial and so it is my oppinion that they are as valid as Creation Corner is to be counted in posts. If there are enough people who think the same way as I do, perhaps we could form a seperate section for RP?
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Lualmoba on November 02, 2006, 05:59:50 pm
The thing is that it looks like the RPs are not as abundant as they used to be, so it seems a bit unnecessary to make a whole board for them. Maybe the Creation Corner can be made into a board for any kind of things where imagination is involved, not just things related to Spore.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Oviraptor on November 02, 2006, 06:04:06 pm
If you take the time to read the those threads you'll see how much thought and planning goes into the role playing games. It takes a long time to think about and write something like that, its not just blurting out the first thing that comes into your head. As someone who doesn't take part in them, I feel I can be a bit impartial and so it is my oppinion that they are as valid as Creation Corner is to be counted in posts. If there are enough people who think the same way as I do, perhaps we could form a seperate section for RP?

Well, the issue is deeper then that. If we make a separate RP board, do we include CC RPs? or is it just Forum Games RPs? There are many combinations on how one could set this up. There are many issues to be resolved before any final word can be made.

The thing is that it looks like the RPs are not as abundant as they used to be, so it seems a bit unnecessary to make a whole board for them. Maybe the Creation Corner can be made into a board for any kind of things where imagination is involved, not just things related to Spore.

That might be a tad bit confusing. I do believe it is possible to create Child Boards in SMF, so that is also an option worth considering.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: PatMan33 on November 02, 2006, 06:07:28 pm
Yes, if there is an RP board you should enforce a rule that puts all the CC RPs in there too.


I think that would also increase usership in the RPs because people will know where to go to find them.


Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: sgore on November 02, 2006, 06:20:47 pm
Yes, if there is an RP board you should enforce a rule that puts all the CC RPs in there too.


I think that would also increase usership in the RPs because people will know where to go to find them.

That Pretty much works for me. But tell me, Would games like Elect that or Debate that count as RPs? or would the fourm be for more traditional style RPs?
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: PatMan33 on November 02, 2006, 06:22:19 pm
"Elect That" is hardly a game. It is just another spam topic.

"Debate That" would work though. However it would have to be policed.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Daxx on November 02, 2006, 06:41:09 pm
I would imagine that RPs, if they were separate, would have to be subject to the same rules as the rest of the forum as well as those in the individual threads. That would mean no spam threads and the like. It couldn't be like Forum Games where rules are mostly suspended, because that's partly the problem.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: PatMan33 on November 02, 2006, 06:42:10 pm
Daxx, I think that was implied.


Don't worry. I don't know how the folks in the Spore Forums do their RPs but the ones we do in Forum Games never go off topic.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Vivec on November 02, 2006, 07:54:55 pm
If you take the time to read the those threads you'll see how much thought and planning goes into the role playing games. It takes a long time to think about and write something like that, its not just blurting out the first thing that comes into your head. As someone who doesn't take part in them, I feel I can be a bit impartial and so it is my oppinion that they are as valid as Creation Corner is to be counted in posts. If there are enough people who think the same way as I do, perhaps we could form a seperate section for RP?

Well, the issue is deeper then that. If we make a separate RP board, do we include CC RPs? or is it just Forum Games RPs? There are many combinations on how one could set this up. There are many issues to be resolved before any final word can be made.

What reason is there for seperating CC from forum game RPs?
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Piloteer on November 02, 2006, 08:10:42 pm
We don't need another forum section just for RP's. The forum is split up fine; RP's are forum games.

And I don't see why RP's should count towards post count while other forum games shouldn't. RP's rarely, if ever, get spammed up, but they are forum games. I don't see the reasoning behind including RP's and not other forum games towards post count.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Vivec on November 02, 2006, 10:08:08 pm
We don't need another forum section just for RP's. The forum is split up fine; RP's are forum games.

And I don't see why RP's should count towards post count while other forum games shouldn't. RP's rarely, if ever, get spammed up, but they are forum games. I don't see the reasoning behind including RP's and not other forum games towards post count.

Look at the RPs and look at the forum games. There's a major difference. About half the forum games are mindless word-typing, whereas the RPs actually require thought to be put into the writing.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Piloteer on November 02, 2006, 10:12:42 pm
That may be true to an extent, but RP's are still forum games and shouldn't receive special treatment.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: PatMan33 on November 03, 2006, 06:31:09 pm
I have noticed that you have not put the time in and posted in one of our wonderful RPs.


Maybe if you spent an hour writing up a nice story then you would be singing a different tune.


Your opinion is flawed. Go play an RP.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Piloteer on November 03, 2006, 07:15:28 pm
You are doing an RP for fun, not real intellectual discussion. It is still a game. If you are just doing it for fun, then post count shouldn't matter.

Besides, making a new section just for RP's wouldn't work. There wouldn't be enough topics going on to sustain itself. The board layout is fine the way it is.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: PatMan33 on November 03, 2006, 08:11:48 pm
No you are wrong.

Plain and simple.

Just because you don't want to take the time to play an RP does not mean you have to ruin it for the rest of us that do. I'll be damned if all my hard work and effort in an RP is nullified because people like you refuse to recognize it.


It is not a game. It is a story.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: gec05 on November 03, 2006, 09:09:03 pm
It shouldn't affect you Pilot. I'd agree though, there should be a seperate board for RPs. These games are constructive and more creative than any other lame post count fest. I consider them to be upbuilding and contributional being that you gain skills at becoming storytellers and writters. Just saying it's still just a game shows me you never really played one or even observed one.

EDIT: Rename Forum Games to Garbage Can.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Daxx on November 03, 2006, 09:48:47 pm
Just because you don't want to take the time to play an RP does not mean you have to ruin it for the rest of us that do. I'll be damned if all my hard work and effort in an RP is nullified because people like you refuse to recognize it.

Just wait a minute there, Pat. Your "hard work" isn't going to be somehow nullified just because it doesn't count towards your post count. You'd still do it anyway, wouldn't you? Otherwise, if you wouldn't do it just because it didn't contribute towards your post count, it definitely doesn't deserve to be included. Also, see my next point:

I have noticed that you have not put the time in and posted in one of our wonderful RPs.

Your opinion is flawed. Go play an RP.

This isn't a valid line of argument. By your reasoning we could say your view is equally biased or "flawed" because you participate. Cut down on the circumstantial ad hominem.

I know you're desperate to see your point of view promoted, but don't just claim someone is plainly and simply wrong without refuting their actual arguments, it's bad form old chap.

Now whilst I agree that far more effort goes into a post in an RP, I really don't see the specific need to create a new forum section for them (which would raise its own attendant problems, like what to do with the CC RPs). However, there isn't any pressing reason to not make a section, so it seems it's just whether Steve can be bothered.

Also, it's worth affirming that these are still just games; you wouldn't ask for them to be put in Everything Else, would you? They may be telling a story but they are nevertheless games by most definitions.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: PatMan33 on November 03, 2006, 09:51:56 pm
You would be surprised, Daxx.

Don't worry, once this RP is over I will be out of your hair.

Your sexy... sexy hair.

*Gazes longingly*
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Daxx on November 03, 2006, 10:22:10 pm
It is, isn't it?

(http://photos-622.ak.facebook.com/ip001/v10/136/118/36801770/n36801770_30274622_9640.jpg)
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: PatMan33 on November 04, 2006, 12:23:03 am
Which one is yours?
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Daxx on November 04, 2006, 01:14:13 am
The guy with the long hair. You can see more pictures of me with my hair in the photo album thread.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Oviraptor on November 12, 2006, 12:19:31 pm
Come on people, only 23 users have voted. We need more votes!
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Piloteer on November 12, 2006, 12:44:15 pm
MANDATED!

Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Oviraptor on November 13, 2006, 07:01:31 am
Okay, some more people have voted, but no one has stated their opinions as to why they voted that way. Please say why you voted the way you did.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Lualmoba on November 15, 2006, 08:08:32 pm
Didn't there use to be 28 votes?...
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Oviraptor on November 15, 2006, 08:09:42 pm
Didn't there use to be 28 votes?...

Oh no! People are removing their votes! :'(
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Lualmoba on November 15, 2006, 08:11:32 pm
Um, are you waiting until there is a greater difference in votes, or are we just waiting for Steve to do something about it?
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Met on November 15, 2006, 08:15:35 pm
I say yes. But I simply don't care for anyone's total post count.

I've seen truly stupid people in forums (not saying in GamingSteve, but not denying some might be in GamingSteve) with high post counts. And real intelligent people with not so many posts. I don't see much point in post count besides the fact we know who responds to topics more than other people. Doesn't mean much.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Oviraptor on November 22, 2006, 06:16:52 pm
People post reasons in here! Don't be lazy! Come on! Voice your opinions! One can't accurately understand one's community if the community doesn't voice their opinions. Also, only 29 votes! That's only 1.3% of the population! That simply isn't enough to be accurate.

Have I made my point? ;)
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Piloteer on November 22, 2006, 07:50:50 pm
Oh who cares why people vote the way they did? There is a clear majority in "No".

I've got my pen ready. Gimme a call when you're ready sir.

 :)
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Vivec on November 22, 2006, 08:02:59 pm
There is a clear majority in "No".

3 votes is a very clear majority.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Daxx on November 22, 2006, 08:29:44 pm
There is a clear majority in "No".

3 votes is a very clear majority.

No-one's actually posted anything compelling to the effect of "yes", though.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: munchkin5 on November 24, 2006, 12:28:35 pm
i'm not bothered either way, yes well people post there to have fun and it's the sort of community spirit that counts, no because people are posting to spam and get there post counts up.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: sgore on November 24, 2006, 01:23:00 pm
I'd be more for the split into 2 fourms idea...(One for RP, one for everything else)
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Lualmoba on November 24, 2006, 06:00:09 pm
I thought we had finally decided that Steve would do it if he had time, but maybe not.
Either way, there isn't as much need for that anymore, is there?
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Danger Mouse on December 04, 2006, 12:01:05 am
I voted yes, forum games posts should count. I voted like this because I believe its a good place for people to have fun and get to know each other, same like in "Everything Else" If forum Games counts are removed then so should everything else that isnt to do with Spore
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Oviraptor on December 04, 2006, 06:17:44 am
I voted yes, forum games posts should count. I voted like this because I believe its a good place for people to have fun and get to know each other, same like in "Everything Else" If forum Games counts are removed then so should everything else that isnt to do with Spore

Wait, just because it isn't Spore related the post count shouldn't count? ??? I'm sorry, I am not following your logic there.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Danger Mouse on December 04, 2006, 11:11:02 pm
Well neither is forum games, and if they shouldnt count, neither should anything that isnt Spore related, because there is the chance to spam in each forum which is off-topic (get where Im going?), so maybe we should do what was suggessted before and take away all post counts,  and make it hidden
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Slartibartfast on December 05, 2006, 02:29:13 am
*Reads six pages of text*  *Looks around confused*

So, should Forum Games' posts count? Please vote and give your reasons as to why you voted the way you did.
I voted yes in this poll weeks ago.  I didn't see why the fun, socializing activities of bored people shouldn't count toward their totals.  I still don't.

There is spam in every forum here.  I don't see how singling out one of them will stop of any of it.

< --- Everyone seems hung up on the stars and numbers on the left, there.  Who really cares?  The stars are arbitrary and meaningless.  I thought they were for decoration.  I don't even understand how anyone could even have their ego stroked by them.  It's not like we're in the military and someone with five stars can order a one star to their death or to do anything, really.  They don't tell me if the poster is reliable or knowledgable about the subject at hand.  Their POST does!

The only time I even look at the post count is when someone posts a new topic about something that already has one.  Even then, it's just to gauge how frustrated I should be.

I don't have five stars yet, but I feel like a member of the community, because people have actually asked me for my opinion on topics.  There are people here with less than a hundred posts who I wish would post more and people with over a thousand posts who I quietly wish could shut up for a minute. 

If the moderators think a post is spam, they should delete it. 
After that, all posts are equal.  Either count them all or don't count them at all.   
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Oviraptor on December 05, 2006, 07:32:08 am
Well neither is forum games, and if they shouldnt count, neither should anything that isnt Spore related, because there is the chance to spam in each forum which is off-topic (get where Im going?), so maybe we should do what was suggessted before and take away all post counts,  and make it hidden

This isn't a Spore forum; it wasn't created for Spore. Spore was just a side effect that happened because Steve made his awesome podcast about Spore right after GDC 2005.

If the moderators think a post is spam, they should delete it. 

I agree with you there, Slartibartfast. The problem is everyone has a different opinion as to what spam actually is. However, this poll was never about spam. It was about making that number closer to meaning something (because right now it is, I agree, pretty meaningless).

If spam is to be combated effectively, we need to come up with a more formal definition of what exactly qualifies as spam.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Slartibartfast on December 05, 2006, 06:56:13 am
This might be off topic but, no matter what I try when I hit show new replies this thread is still coming up.  I've read it and marked it as read four times.  What's going on?
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Daxx on December 05, 2006, 06:57:34 am
Well neither is forum games, and if they shouldnt count, neither should anything that isnt Spore related, because there is the chance to spam in each forum which is off-topic (get where Im going?), so maybe we should do what was suggessted before and take away all post counts,  and make it hidden

This isn't a Spore forum, despite appearances.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Danger Mouse on December 05, 2006, 11:41:26 pm
Well neither is forum games, and if they shouldnt count, neither should anything that isnt Spore related, because there is the chance to spam in each forum which is off-topic (get where Im going?), so maybe we should do what was suggessted before and take away all post counts,  and make it hidden

This isn't a Spore forum, despite appearances.

Isnt the issue about spamming?
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Vivec on December 05, 2006, 11:44:00 pm
Just wondering, but, what harm is there in hiding the post count? Sure, it might not actually work, but it's certainly not going to encourage anyone to spam.

(I know this didn't have anything to do with the last few posts.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Danger Mouse on December 05, 2006, 11:56:59 pm
Just wondering, but, what harm is there in hiding the post count? Sure, it might not actually work, but it's certainly not going to encourage anyone to spam.

(I know this didn't have anything to do with the last few posts.

This is what I suggested :)
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Daxx on December 06, 2006, 04:59:20 am
Well neither is forum games, and if they shouldnt count, neither should anything that isnt Spore related, because there is the chance to spam in each forum which is off-topic (get where Im going?), so maybe we should do what was suggessted before and take away all post counts,  and make it hidden

This isn't a Spore forum, despite appearances.

Isnt the issue about spamming?

You said that we should not include anything outside the Spore sections because it's "offtopic":

If forum Games counts are removed then so should everything else that isnt to do with Spore
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Slartibartfast on December 06, 2006, 06:05:59 am
He has said a lot of things.

Well neither is forum games, and if they shouldnt count, neither should anything that isnt Spore related, because there is the chance to spam in each forum which is off-topic (get where Im going?), so maybe we should do what was suggessted before and take away all post counts,  and make it hidden

Could we have different stars for different forums? 
We pick which forum we want to count towards our "rank" and still have our total underneath.  Is that workable?
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Vivec on December 06, 2006, 03:57:23 pm
Just wondering, but, what harm is there in hiding the post count? Sure, it might not actually work, but it's certainly not going to encourage anyone to spam.

(I know this didn't have anything to do with the last few posts.
This is what I suggested :)
That's what a lot of people suggested.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Danger Mouse on December 07, 2006, 12:40:11 am
Just proves great minds think alike ;)
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: PatMan33 on December 18, 2006, 12:41:14 pm
Keep the posts to maintain the status quo. Then everyone is happy!
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: aligon on December 18, 2006, 09:26:58 pm
Haha, I equalized the votes and made a draw!
Reason why I voted "make the posts count"?
Why, because probably one whole fifth of my posts are forum game posts  ;D
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Gaming Steve on December 18, 2006, 09:29:57 pm
Posts are posts. Plus I don't think I can remove the game posts from your overall totals...

Oh wait, I just checked. I can remove those posts from your total. Never mind.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Mr. Wizard on December 18, 2006, 09:34:26 pm
If it is possible to flip off a forum from adding to your posts, then the posts in that forum will be deducted from the total posts.

Its the same thing that happened when VFX Watch deleted the Kill People thread, I lost 200 posts.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Vivec on December 18, 2006, 10:08:27 pm
Reason why I voted "make the posts count"?
Why, because probably one whole fifth of my posts are forum game posts  ;D

This is precisely why we want to get rid of the count.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: PatMan33 on December 19, 2006, 04:32:02 am
Yeah but I am going to bring up the RP argument again because we put a lot of time and thought into our posts and they should count.
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Gaming Steve on December 19, 2006, 05:21:11 am
This is precisely why we want to get rid of the count.

I will never get rid of the count. I love the count. ;D
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: PatMan33 on December 19, 2006, 06:01:38 am
The count?

THE COUNT!?

(http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/3067/thecounthz8.jpg)
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Daxx on December 19, 2006, 07:04:41 am
This is precisely why we want to get rid of the count.

I will never get rid of the count. I love the count. ;D

This may seem like a silly question, but why?
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Krakow Sam on December 19, 2006, 07:12:25 am
Six! Six Posts!

Ah Ah ah!
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: LadyM on December 19, 2006, 07:49:00 am
This is precisely why we want to get rid of the count.

I will never get rid of the count. I love the count. ;D

This may seem like a silly question, but why?

because he's the boss  :D
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Lualmoba on December 19, 2006, 08:30:08 pm
Why do we have the 50 posts to be able to PM if someone can just spam Forum Games and people will barely even notice?
Title: Re: Forum Games Post Count
Post by: Gaming Steve on December 19, 2006, 08:58:17 pm
Why do we have the 50 posts to be able to PM if someone can just spam Forum Games and people will barely even notice?

Because spambots will simply PM over and over and over again on the board non-stop. PMs are harder to stop and deal with than lots of posting as we can delete posts -- and once it's deleted then nobody can see it anymore -- but PMs are nearly impossible to delete once they're sent. It is also to encourage people to become more active participants on the site.

Also spambots aren't smart enough to try to post and then PM everyone the board. They just join a site and then send out endless PMs non-stop (and sometimes they will post new messages, but not as often as those aren't nearly as effective as spam).