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Games, Games, and More Games => Storytelling and Roleplaying => Topic started by: PatMan33 on November 21, 2016, 06:51:35 pm

Title: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on November 21, 2016, 06:51:35 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/n4Sxi7n.png)


Right, so I'm kind of interested in going back into this. Been looking through the threads and talking with some people.

You guys even remember that the last PCP ended up going to a DoW-like phase? We had a forum too: which I'll post when it won't mark this message as spam.

Totally forgot about all of this. But we have what appears to be the outline of a combination of these two games (Dawn of War and Planetary Construction Project) that seemed to work. We could start a new one at the PCP phase, or do a DoW game on an existing/classic map, or whatever else you can think of.

Any of you have an interest? Just looking for ideas at the moment.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Slinky on November 21, 2016, 06:55:16 pm
I'd be in favor of creating a new map just because it sounds fun :)

Anyway, a game like this sounds really interesting - especially in a medieval/high fantasy setting or whatever.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on November 21, 2016, 06:59:37 pm
I would like this a lot. :) Feel free cannibalize anything from my last attempt (which I think had potential, but then I disappeared (sorry about that)). We should definitely come at this from a long-term perspective. So we can come back to it and keep it going without having to worry that "it's been too long."

Also, I exist, apparently.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on November 21, 2016, 07:02:47 pm
Hey Ovi! Glad to see you!

Yeah I agree on the game needing to be long-term. That was my original intent with PCP4 (or 3?), which is why we made that forum. I'd get that team back together if I knew how to contact them all, but I don't. But yeah, check the cartography topic and look for any threads named Dawn of Worlds (DoW) or Planetary Construction Project (PCP). We did three or four editions of each game, so there's a ton of content out there already for us.

However I also have no problem starting from scratch. Though I'd need to get my Photoshop situation resolved.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on November 21, 2016, 07:13:14 pm
Because I'm me: PCP 1 (http://www.gamingsteve.com/blab/index.php?topic=11128.0), PCP 2 (http://www.gamingsteve.com/blab/index.php?topic=17745.0), PCP 3 (http://www.gamingsteve.com/blab/index.php?topic=18737.0).
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on November 21, 2016, 07:16:30 pm
I'm definitely on board with using Ovi's idea of building our map such that it overlays onto Google Earth.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Slinky on November 21, 2016, 07:18:15 pm
So it would be inspired by a real-world location then?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on November 21, 2016, 07:19:10 pm
Oh! No not that.

Whatever map we make could be loaded into Google Earth and viewed as a sphere.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Slinky on November 21, 2016, 07:25:34 pm
Ohh, I see. That'd be cool! As an alternative, donjon.bin.sh has some planet generators that create sphere gifs if that's useful at all.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on November 21, 2016, 07:34:54 pm
An example of a personal project where I used Google Earth:

(http://i.imgur.com/gE0oL4s.png) (http://i.imgur.com/gE0oL4s.png)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on November 21, 2016, 07:36:04 pm
I've got this map of his as well, it is really cool. And it isn't that hard to get everything working once the initial styles and setup are agreed upon. Plus with Google Drive or something we can make some burner accounts or whatever for this game and share and whatnot.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on November 21, 2016, 11:26:50 pm
That's really cool Ovi! I did not realize you could do that with google earth. Reminds me of the D&D globe thing for Toril.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on November 22, 2016, 05:51:25 pm
So, should I start generating new potential new map outlines? Cause I'm already doing it. <.< >.>
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Inkling on November 22, 2016, 11:20:32 pm
I'm interested in getting involved.  Won't be able to do much until after thanksgiving, though.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on November 23, 2016, 01:04:33 am
Start cooking up some basic map outlines, Ovi. We've got the Thanksgiving break to discuss plans and whatnot.

I like the idea of an outline. Maybe a few outline options of various parts of the map, so we can pop in parts that we like and swap out bits that we don't! For example, I like this continent, but that one looks dumb. So we switch them! I dunno! :P
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on November 23, 2016, 05:39:09 pm
The only problem with switching around continents is that it won't be easy for me to zoom in to get real close shots if people wanted to make maps at a higher level of detail than the base map. If we keep them whole, I can just keep loading up that same map and zoom in as much as I want. I've already generated 10 of these things... just have to remember how to export the image and I can share them.

Edit: Figured it out, here they are: http://imgur.com/a/QVkWR (http://imgur.com/a/QVkWR)

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on November 24, 2016, 08:17:52 am
Two
Four
Ten
Eight
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Slinky on November 24, 2016, 03:21:11 pm
who do we appreciate
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Brandonazz on November 24, 2016, 04:19:46 pm
Ovi Ovi! He's our man; if he can't do it - no one can!
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on November 25, 2016, 02:09:06 pm
Perhaps would should decide how we will decide things. :P
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on November 27, 2016, 09:26:57 am
Okay! Okay! Let's try to get this ball rolling now that the Thanksgiving holiday is behind us.

Ovi has posted up several map templates: http://imgur.com/a/QVkWR

Check those out and let us know what you like. Do you guys want to do any editing of the map like the PCP games? Or are we just going to settle into a DoW-style game? Or are we going to try a little of both. Because if it is that third one, we'll need to hammer out some new rules and regulations.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on November 27, 2016, 10:25:35 am
Oh we could set up our game like that.

Maybe we spend a phase building an established word. And then we spend a phase colonizing the new world. It would allow us to have some anchor points for our lore and movements, but also a whole new land to expand upon within a basic structure.

 This might be hard to read... LadyM's GSWiki needs an update or else it shows up blank. But anyway, I made a potential era snapshot idea back when I was dreaming up PCP3: http://ladympire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Planetary_Construction_Project/Testbed&action=edit (http://ladympire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Planetary_Construction_Project/Testbed&action=edit)

Might spend some time re-typing that up in an easier to read format, but there it is for now. Boom, here we go:



Eras

The game would be divided into different eras and each era would be divided into ages (probably three). Some possible eras follow (Nothing is final, as of yet). This game could potentially go on for a very long time.

Prehistoric Era

In this era, we get to know the planet and lay the foundations for all future eras.

Age of Terraforming

During this age, players will primarily be placing terrain features and biomes.

Stone Age

During this age, players will be placing cultures and some terraforming.

Neolithic Age

During this age, player will primarily be placing cultures, subcultures and some cities.

Classical Era

Starting with permanent settlements, ending in multiple-city countries. See here for reference. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-age_system#Three-age_system_resumptive_table]

Copper Age

Bronze Age

Iron Age

Medieval Era

Early Middle Age

High Middle Age

Late Middle Age

Renaissance Era

Age of Discovery

Age of Sail

Age of Gunpowder

Industrial Era

Industrial Revolution

Second Industrial Revolution

Great War Age

Modern Era

Atomic Age

Jet Age

Space Age

Contemporary Era

Information Age

? ? ?

? ? ?

? ? ?

Future Era

? ? ?

? ? ?

? ? ?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on November 27, 2016, 10:28:16 am
Oh that looks good. Also very in-depth. But if we're designing a game that is long-term, that shouldn't be an issue. It just looks daunting taken all at once. :P
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on November 27, 2016, 10:45:52 am
There modified my post. Lot's of things need descriptions, but it'll be a while before we reach them, so we have time. :P
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on November 27, 2016, 10:58:44 am
Awesome! Yeah that sounds reasonable to me. Maybe Hydro would have some valuable input on this, he's gotten games to run long-term.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on November 27, 2016, 11:12:08 am
And then eventually, someday way in the fiuture, we can make a map like this:

(http://ladympire.com/wiki/images/e/ec/Hagunda_Timeline.gif)

But it'll be better because there will be a history behind everything we did.

Also, don't forget to provide input on what map we should use! http://imgur.com/a/QVkWR (http://imgur.com/a/QVkWR)

And, if it helps, here is every map in a .KMZ file so you can look at it in Google Earth. https://gofile.io/?c=KlEwqU (https://gofile.io/?c=KlEwqU) (I recommend turning on the grid, otherwise it's super easy to get disoriented in a world you are not familiar with).
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Slinky on November 27, 2016, 01:33:00 pm
one and ten are my favorites :)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on November 29, 2016, 04:31:43 pm
After reviewing them again in detail on Google Earth (here is the link to the files if you missed that: https://gofile.io/?c=KlEwqU ), I think I like Eight and Two best.

But seriously, Google Earth Pro is free now (https://www.google.com/earth/explore/products/desktop.html).
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Brandonazz on November 30, 2016, 11:47:59 am
I like one, four, and eight.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 01, 2016, 04:38:23 am
Map 1 voted twice
Map 2 voted twice
Map 4 voted twice
Map 10 voted twice

Map 8 voted thrice

All the votes so far. I'll make it simpler and remove my votes for Map 2 and Map 10. This way one of Slinky's favorites is still in the running. So our choices are between:

Map 1 (http://i.imgur.com/SARoN7U.png)
Map 4 (http://i.imgur.com/0H8YfUs.png)
Map 8 (http://i.imgur.com/AVb2ccY.png)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 01, 2016, 04:52:26 am
4 is pretty wild in Google Earth. It almost looks as if the southern pole would connect those two continents if the ice was thick enough.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Slinky on December 01, 2016, 12:56:41 pm
If we can only vote for one, I'd do 4 for the cool islands and the south pole thing :)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Brandonazz on December 01, 2016, 01:08:18 pm
If I had to cut a choice, I'd cut one, leaving four and eight.

My only problem with eight is that, when we're editing the map for biomes etc., the immense projection distortions at the south pole will cause difficulties or ambiguity.

If we could have simultaneous polar map insets (like on many world maps) and the regular projection, then I'd choose 8 over 4.

If we want to just use a single rectangular projection, though, I'd choose 4.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 01, 2016, 01:12:30 pm
Brandon raises a good point. Can you do something to compensate for that on the game map, Ovi?

Anyway, I like Map 8; however, if I'm being honest, it was originally my wildcard vote and not the one I liked the best.

Map 1 was my second favorite because of the continents that had protected sea/bay areas. And Map 4 was my favorite because I like the idea of a long continent that is both wide and tall.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 01, 2016, 01:30:19 pm
Was fussing around, here is map 4 on the globe.

http://imgur.com/a/iXkiz
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Brandonazz on December 01, 2016, 01:30:28 pm
Yeah, most of my decision-making has been based on sufficiently close clusters of continents for cultural interaction (think Eurasia).

4 looks a little artificial, but that may be because it's pretty equatorial. 8 looks realistic, but I'm not sure I want to deal with warped map projections at the poles.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Slinky on December 01, 2016, 01:39:15 pm
Yeah the warping isn't worth it, 4 seems basically fine and pretty interesting to play around on. Plus the islands are nice.

EDIT: 1 is still my favorite tho
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 01, 2016, 02:10:57 pm
Just snowballing here, so don't mind me too much.

Was thinking about the civ stage. Wasn't sure if I want to play a civ and thought about being like, nature or something. Then I thought, hey wait! what if everyone is nature. So follow me here...

Every turn one of the players sets their civ aside (their civ will make no progress that turn) and picks up the mantle of Mother Nature for that turn. This player gets to inflict one "nature event" on each of the other players in the game. Their civ is not affected by these traumatic natural events, but they also make no forward progress that turn either. This job rotates from player-to-player as each turn ends.

Seemed neat because it gives everyone some space to get those "mighty god" tendencies out of their systems while also ensuring that nobody can do everything exactly they way they want (to allow for some organic things to occur). Thoughts?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Slinky on December 01, 2016, 02:24:59 pm
Totally support that, sounds like a fun way to turn the tables or whatever
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 01, 2016, 04:50:27 pm
Well, the poles aren't as big a deal as you might think. Point locations (like cities, for instance) would just be a map pin placed at a specific coordinates. Anything drawn on the map would just be areas, no line work needed. And it really isn't difficult to load the image up into Google Earth to see what it looks like (and if you have Pro you can even calculate areas). Plus, keep in mind the polar areas are the least populated regions.

Oh right, and I'm voting for 8.

Edit: Here is an interesting map (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tissot_indicatrix_world_map_equirectangular_proj.svg) showing the distortion of an equirectangular porjection, if that helps.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 01, 2016, 06:43:47 pm
Is it possible for us to take a part of one of the other maps that people liked and put it into the one we choose? Or swap bits instead of adding more?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 01, 2016, 07:07:54 pm
Yes, but it will be harder to keep everything lined up. See, the files are all vector based. If I mix and match then they'd be from to separate files with no real way to stitch them together except in post-processing.If we stick to one map then I can zoom in anywhere on the map and everything will be exactly lined up. So it's a trade-off between detail and style. Hopefully that makes sense?

Edit: Here is an example of how far I can zoom in: http://imgur.com/a/aKaWM (http://imgur.com/a/aKaWM) In the last picture, the smaller island to the left of the peninsula is 1.12 miles long. Obviously the details aren't as fine in that level of zoom, but If one does make maps that far in, you'd probably just add the extra details in.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 01, 2016, 07:13:41 pm
Yes. I'd rather have the complete vector.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 01, 2016, 07:16:20 pm
Yeah, take a look at that edit. I can zoom in pretty far. Trying to export that level of detail in a vector image for the whole planet would be... problematic. :P

I can technically zoom in even farther than that, but the detail level doesn't really increase anymore that what you see there:

(http://i.imgur.com/A1uOqU5.png)

Much detail, such zoom!
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 01, 2016, 07:29:15 pm
Very map.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 02, 2016, 02:37:16 am
I like Map 4.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Slinky on December 02, 2016, 09:31:03 am
Looks like it's probably gonna be four then huh?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 02, 2016, 01:43:16 pm
Yeah probably. Unless anyone has other thoughts we're gonna close this up tonight or tomorrow.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 03, 2016, 11:55:26 am
Allllllright nobody said anything so let's call it. MAP FOUR!

Right we've got our map, it is map number four.

Highres Map Four! (http://i.imgur.com/ybadJV5.png)

Now what?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Slinky on December 03, 2016, 12:17:46 pm
Terraforming and biomes? Naming the planet (or should we wait until civilizations do that)?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 03, 2016, 12:22:13 pm
Sure those all sound like good ideas.

We also need to come up with a standardized way to edit the map so things look pretty even across edits and people. For instance, I'm just looking at some of the McNugget shaped islands (the mid-size ones) and I'm thinking we could even divide those up and have three or four people working on corners of those smaller places for quite a while before we run out of stuff to do.

I guess what I'm saying is that we should try to avoid having regions that are sparsely developed. Some of these places could have dozens of towns nestled into corners and cracks but if we hit things with a broad brush or try to claim plots of land that are too big for our needs, an area could have a design density that is not in line with the rest of the project.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Slinky on December 03, 2016, 12:27:32 pm
I'll take the small equatorial island between the two continents :D

Also there are more dense and sparse regions in the real world. Compare either of the coasts of the US to Wyoming, or India to Northern Canada. It wouldn't be unrealistic to have empty or underdeveloped areas.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 03, 2016, 12:28:44 pm
Eras

The game would be divided into different eras and each era would be divided into ages (probably three). Some possible eras follow (Nothing is final, as of yet). This game could potentially go on for a very long time.

Prehistoric Era

In this era, we get to know the planet and lay the foundations for all future eras.

Age of Terraforming

During this age, players will primarily be placing terrain features and biomes.

Stone Age

During this age, players will be placing cultures and some terraforming.

Neolithic Age

During this age, player will primarily be placing cultures, subcultures and some cities.

...snip...

But yes. Landforms are first! Since we have already locked down the coast, the next step is elevation (i.e. mountains), since that shapes pretty much everything about how the various biomes of a planet form. If we are feeling adventurous enough, we should try dipping out hand in plate tectonics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_tectonics).

I'll take the small equatorial island between the two continents :D

Now, now, don't get ahead of yourself, we need a plan, first.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Slinky on December 03, 2016, 12:34:35 pm
Is this just gonna be like, us coming up with ideas, or is elevation gonna be part of the game now? Like with turns and stuff?

Cause if we're just doing ideas, then I propose a mountain range along the bottom left coast of the Western continent, sort of positioned similarly to the Appalachians on the US East coast. But if we're playing with rules and that's not within my power right now, then nevermind :)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 03, 2016, 01:23:44 pm
Elevation will matter as much as anything else. The goal will be to keep things consistent, whatever we decide upon.

Oh and as for that cool island in-between the continents: I remember you said you wanted to make an isolated kind of civ. Would that be where you'd put it? Because that spot doesn't look like it'd be too isolated for long in the center of what would probably become a major world shipping lane.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 03, 2016, 01:25:39 pm
But let's take this one step at a time. Where people live should evolve naturally through playing the game.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 03, 2016, 01:31:11 pm
Agreed. That was my issue about the island that will inadvertently be the first plot of land claimed (because that kind of thing is always the first plot of land claimed). How did people get there and does it make sense that there are people evolving on this isolated island pre-age of sail at the same time as other, larger land forms with more materials and resources.


Literally just spent four minutes drawing random plates on our map. No directions given.

(http://i.imgur.com/ZzEYqBu.png)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 03, 2016, 01:37:25 pm
I'll take a crack at it later, too. See what I can come up with.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on December 03, 2016, 01:52:08 pm
I want to join this mapfest.

I didn't pipe up earlier in case it fizzled out but it's got this far so lets get riggedy, riggedy wrecked sooooooooooooon.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Slinky on December 03, 2016, 02:00:27 pm
Elevation will matter as much as anything else. The goal will be to keep things consistent, whatever we decide upon.

Oh and as for that cool island in-between the continents: I remember you said you wanted to make an isolated kind of civ. Would that be where you'd put it? Because that spot doesn't look like it'd be too isolated for long in the center of what would probably become a major world shipping lane.

Yeah that's the idea, basically I wanna set up an isolated civ that other civs will barge in on and be like HEY OPEN UP and then culture shock. Anyway I don't have to have the island if it's not realistic - whoever explores it first can conquer it :)

Also I don't really know much about plate tectonics so I'm sure you guys will come up with something good.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 03, 2016, 03:12:54 pm
Well with Sagan 4 I have made biomes before. Like realistic where they should actually go biomes. As long as I know the elevation then I can know where the biomes go. So the best way is to do a topography map.

Example Topo Map from Sagan 4 (http://wiki.mydigiview.com/images/2/24/Sagan4_w24_gigantic_terrain.jpg)

Examples Biome Mao from Sagan 4 (http://wiki.mydigiview.com/images/a/ab/Sagan4_w24_gigantic_biomes.jpg)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 03, 2016, 03:54:18 pm
(http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h202/Hydromancerx/pdawnblank_zpsrvkz0azm.png)
The map using the Sagan 4 template.

So making a realistic map is not that hard if you understand the rules.

Plate Tectonics
You have to choose what directions the plates will go. In doing so you can see if you are making a mountain or a deep sea trench. Those that go side to side also make mountains but not as huge as say the Himalayas.

Sea Currents
Sea currents for the most part are easy to draw. North and South poles try to make a clockwise cold water current. While at the equator is a clockwise warm water current. In between is where it gets tricky. East Side of the continents tend to get warmer wetter currents, while West side of contents get cooler dryer currents.

Biomes
Based on the elevation and sea currents you can determine where biomes will be. So like double red sea currents on low elevation in the tropical zone makes Tropical Rainforest. The biomes are limited to the following zones ....

Marine

Vents = Volcanic + Sea Floor

Cold Seep = Seep + Sea Floor

Ocean (Trench Floor) = Trench + Sea Floor
Ocean (Trench Zone) = Trench + Open Water
Ocean (Trench Slope) = Trench + Sea Slope

Ocean (Abyss Floor) = Abyss + Sea Floor
Ocean (Abyss Zone) = Abyss + Open Water
Ocean (Abyss Slope) = Abyss + Sea Slope
Ocean (Abyss Sea Mount) = Abyss + Sea Mount

Ocean (Midnight Floor) = Midnight + Sea Floor
Ocean (Midnight Zone) = Midnight + Open Water
Ocean (Midnight Slope) = Midnight + Sea Slope
Ocean (Midnight Sea Mount) = Midnight + Sea Mount

Ocean (Twilight Floor) = Twilight + Sea Floor
Ocean (Twilight Zone) = Twilight + Open Water
Ocean (Twilight Slope) = Twilight + Sea Slope
Ocean (Twilight Sea Mount) = Twilight + Sea Mount

Tropical Ocean (Sunlight Zone) = Sunlight + Open Water + Tropical
Temperate Ocean (Sunlight Zone) = Sunlight + Open Water + Temperate
Polar Ocean (Sunlight Zone) = Sunlight + Open Water + Polar

Tropical Shallows = Sunlight + Sea Mount + Tropical
Temperate Shallows = Sunlight + Sea Mount + Temperate
Polar Shallows = Sunlight + Sea Mount + Polar

Tropical Sea = Sunlight + Sea Floor + Tropical
Temperate Sea = Sunlight + Sea Floor + Temperate
Polar Sea = Sunlight + Sea Floor + Polar

Tropical Bay = Sunlight + Sea Floor + Tropical
Temperate Bay = Sunlight + Sea Floor + Temperate
Polar Bay = Sunlight + Sea Floor + Polar

Tropical Coast = Sunlight + Sea Floor + Tropical
Temperate Coast = Sunlight + Sea Floor + Temperate
Polar Coast = Sunlight + Sea Floor + Polar

Ice Sheet = Sunlight + Open Water + Glacial

Land

Glacier = Lowland + Glacial
Peak = Highland + Glacial

Tropical Beach = Beach + Tropical
Temperate Beach = Beach + Temperate
Polar Beach = Beach + Polar
Glacial Beach = Beach + Glacial

Tropical River = Freshwater + Tropical
Temperate River = Freshwater + Temperate
Polar River = Freshwater + Polar
Mountain River = Freshwater + Mountain
Glacial River = Freshwater + Glacial

Tropical Salt River = Sal****er + Tropical
Temperate Salt River = Sal****er + Temperate
Polar Salt River = Sal****er + Polar
Mountain Salt River = Sal****er + Mountain

Tropical Lake = Freshwater + Tropical
Temperate Lake = Freshwater + Temperate
Polar Lake = Freshwater + Polar
Glacial Lake = Freshwater + Glacial

Tropical Salt Lake = Sal****er + Tropical
Temperate Salt Lake = Sal****er + Temperate
Polar Salt Lake = Sal****er + Polar
Mountain Salt Lake = Sal****er + Mountain

Tropical Salt Flats = Tropical  + Salt Flats
Temperate Salt Flats = Temperate + Salt Flats
Polar Salt Flats = Polar + Salt Flats
Mountain Salt Flats = Mountain + Salt Flats

Tropical Riparian = Flood Plain + Tropical
Temperate Riparian = Floor Plain + Temperate
Polar Riparian = Flood Plain + Polar
Mountain Riparian = Flood Plain + Mountain

Tropical Salt Riparian = Salt Flood Plain + Tropical
Temperate Salt Riparian = Salt Floor Plain + Temperate
Polar Salt Riparian = Salt Flood Plain + Polar
Mountain Salt Riparian = Salt Flood Plain + Polar

Swamp = Wetland + Tropical
Marsh = Wetland + Temperate
Bog = Wetland + Polar
Moor = Wetland + Mountain

Salt Swamp = Salt Wetland + Tropical
Salt Marsh = Salt Wetland + Temperate
Salt Bog = Salt Wetland + Polar
Salt Moor = Salt Wetland + Mountain

Tropical Rainforest = Rainforest + Tropical
Temperate Rainforest = Rainforest + Temperate
Taiga = Rainforest + Polar
Alpine = Rainforest + Mountain

Tropical Woodland = Woodland + Tropical
Temperate Woodland = Woodland + Temperate
Boreal = Woodland + Mountain

Tropical Scrub = Scrubland + Tropical
Chaparral = Scrubland + Temperate
Polar Scrub = Scrubland + Polar
Rocky = Scrubland + Mountain
Volcanic = Scrubland + Volcanic

Savanna = Grassland + Tropical
Plains = Grassland + Temperate
High Grassland = Grassland + Mountain

Dunes = Desert + Tropical
Desert = Desert + Temperate
Tundra = Desert + Polar
High Desert = Desert + Mountain

Ice Sea Cave = Sea Cave + Glacial
Limestone Sea Cave = Sea Cave + Limestone
Sandstone Sea Cave = Sea Cave + Sandstone
Volcanic Sea Cave = Sea Cave + Volcanic

Ice Cave = Cave + Glacial
Limestone Cave = Cave + Limestone
Sandstone Cave = Cave + Sandstone
Volcanic Cave = Cave + Volcanic

Ice Cavern = Cavern + Glacial
Limestone Cavern = Cavern + Limestone
Sandstone Cavern = Cavern + Sandstone
Volcanic Cavern = Cavern + Volcanic

Limestone Water Table = Water Table + Limestone
Sandstone Water Table = Water Table + Sandstone
Volcanic Water Table = Water Table + Volcanic



Reference for the Ocean Biomes

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2699/4372481420_eaee57befe.jpg)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 03, 2016, 04:20:07 pm
I'm going to start working on the plates now. Keep in mind though, that unlike Sagan 4, this planet has an axial tilt identical to Earth.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on December 03, 2016, 04:24:12 pm
But people wear hats on their feet, right?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 03, 2016, 05:52:13 pm
I'm going to start working on the plates now. Keep in mind though, that unlike Sagan 4, this planet has an axial tilt identical to Earth.

The rules should work for Earth too. Sagan 4 is ever Earth-like if you remember from when you made the maps in the early days.

You can see Earth follows more or less the same rules. Such as California and Peru currents being the cold/dry on the West side of contents and Brazil and Gulf Stream being the warm/wet on the East side

(http://www.geo.hunter.cuny.edu/tbw/wc.notes/3.temperature/ocean.currents.jpg)


Also Earth's Axis tilt is 23.5 degrees while Sagan 4's is 24 degrees. They are very close.

Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 03, 2016, 06:03:20 pm
Well, according to that image you posted, the axial tilt would be 30 degrees. That's all I was getting at.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 03, 2016, 06:38:23 pm
So I have an idea / suggestion / request for the backstory.

It is the far far future and Earth has colonized the galaxy. Our planet was once a lifeless rock until Earth terraformed it and begin a colony on it. However the colony quickly failed and fell into ruins. The human colonists however still survived, however their civilization collapsed into tribal societies who all but had forgotten that they came from another planet.

Plants and animals from Earth were used to terraform the planet so many of the species we would be familiar with. There are some genetically modified ones as well as new species that adapted specifically to this new planet. However all are pretty recognizable on what species they came from. There are no fossils besides the ones made from Earth species. There were no aliens who lived on the planet before. And as a result of no deep fossil record there is no fossil fuels such as Oil, Coal, Natural Gas, etc.

This will mean the Humans of this world will have to find different ways to advance technologically. Likewise there may still be the ruins of the original colony somewhere as well as terraformers scattered across the globe. Who knows what high tech relics lay in wait. Maybe even dormant robots.


Beyond that I want to leave it vague for us to play around with. This way we can have any plant or animal wherever we want with it still making sense and even have some "magic" relics or genetically modified "monsters" to encounter. A fusion of scifi and fantasy.

What do you guys think?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 03, 2016, 06:47:15 pm
Think of this more like an alternate reality Earth. It's basically identical to Earth in every way, except that the continents developed differently and thus everything on the planet did, too. So while all the organisms are the same as Earth's, where they live and how they got there would be different. Humans would be the same humans but their culture, society, and history would be unique to this world. So to the inhabitants of this world, that IS Earth (though who knows what they will end up calling it). That way they have the same breadth of history (and pre-history) as Earth does.



And here is what I came up with for plate tectonics:

(http://i.imgur.com/BQzAZAw.png)

And here is the first "official" project KMZ file: https://gofile.io/?c=oab8Jx (https://gofile.io/?c=oab8Jx) It includes the 800 pixel version of the map, the 10k pixel version of the map, and the tentative plate boundaries. (The 10k file takes a while to load so be patient).
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 03, 2016, 06:58:00 pm
Aww but then we could have cool stuff like this ...

Mountain and Forest Trolls
http://hyrotrioskjan.deviantart.com/art/Mountain-and-Forest-Troll-363533827

Unicorn
http://hyrotrioskjan.deviantart.com/art/Unicorn-291560859

Manticore
http://hyrotrioskjan.deviantart.com/art/Manticore-291386079

Snow Goblin
http://electreel.deviantart.com/art/Antarctic-flightless-bats-323942760
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 03, 2016, 07:01:26 pm
I believed we envisioned this to be as realistic as possible, not fantastical. Introducing such fantasy elements is a slippery slope that I think we should steer clear of.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Slinky on December 03, 2016, 07:03:07 pm
Aww I was hoping this could be more creative and stuff but it seems like we're pretty tied down to hard realism huh?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 03, 2016, 07:06:31 pm
There is plenty of room for creativity, but it should be focused on humans interaction with their environment and each other. If aren't sure how that could work, take a look through the PCP3 forum: http://pcp4unme.freesmfhosting.com/index.php (http://pcp4unme.freesmfhosting.com/index.php)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 03, 2016, 07:08:51 pm
I believed we envisioned this to be as realistic as possible, not fantastical. Introducing such fantasy elements is a slippery slope that I think we should steer clear of.

My idea was realistic. Since expecting life to evolve exactly the same way as it did where the continents are all mixed up is nearly impossible. In fact even iff we ran evolution again on Earth with the exact same configuration it could come out much differently. My scenario explained why there are different contents but the same animals, plants and humans.

We can skip the fantasy elements if you want but I was not sure if it was a fantasy world map or not. This would give it the best of both. Plausible fantasy and plausible monsters.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Slinky on December 03, 2016, 07:17:17 pm
I kinda am in favor of "plausible fantasy", and really like those animals hydro posted, but again, I'm not as experienced in this game so if that's outside of the rules then I'll go with whatever is inside the rules and kinda change my mindset a bit :)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Inkling on December 03, 2016, 11:34:47 pm
I'm still interested in participating, but I'm not quite getting what we're doing.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on December 04, 2016, 04:39:35 am
I'm joining the anti-goblin party as well. Sorry Hydro and Slinky. I have enough trouble wiith goblins in my day to day life, I don't want them in my games.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 04, 2016, 07:16:46 am
Don't forget to take a look at this:

And here is what I came up with for plate tectonics:

(http://i.imgur.com/BQzAZAw.png)

And here is the first "official" project KMZ file: https://gofile.io/?c=oab8Jx (https://gofile.io/?c=oab8Jx) It includes the 800 pixel version of the map, the 10k pixel version of the map, and the tentative plate boundaries. (The 10k file takes a while to load so be patient).

If it's to everyone's liking, I can add directions. (Already have some in mind from the way I drew it).
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Josasa on December 04, 2016, 09:40:15 am
I knew my PCP senses were tingling.

I want in on this as well since I always enjoyed these kinds of projects. I was actually checking out the old DoW threads a few months ago so I'm glad to see this moving forward. However, my contributions will be limited until after Christmas due to things.

If we're voting on it, I'd rather stay away from the more fantastical side of things and go with a realistic approach.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 04, 2016, 10:31:43 am
Haha I was kind of hoping for some fantasy too, but it isn't as big a deal to me.

We have time until we reach any stage where we'd need to consider magic, maybe we can come up with a compromise then? Maybe some kind of slow magical force that permeates? I dunno. Or nothing at all! Remember guys, we have time on our side! Just don't die and we should be fine. :P

Out of curiosity, since we're at the start of this, instead of trying to fit tectonics onto an existing Map 4, do we just want to start with a generated Pangaea, cut it in spots, and then extrapolate it out? Ovi was showing me a thread yesterday at the Cartographer's Guild that laid out a very similar process. It wouldn't take that much longer and now that we have a couple more experienced players in the game it could be pretty great.

https://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=2238

Thoughts? Remember there's no rush and there is plenty of time to discuss! :)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Inkling on December 04, 2016, 10:52:56 am
Yeah, I'd like to see some element to make this different than Earth more than different continents.  I kinda thought this was going to be like Dawn of Worlds with a ton of weird races, but this direction is fine, too.  I guess now I'm picturing something like the world from Game of Thrones.  Mostly realistic, but a few weird animals and some magic stuff on the periphery.  But I haven't actually seen or read any Game of Thrones so that could be a completely inaccurate description of the setting.  Like Pat said, it sounds like we're a ways from adding in any of that stuff.

So again, how do we play this? what are the mechanics?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on December 04, 2016, 11:43:58 am
The magical elements in Game of Thrones start out on the periphery but then steadily ramp up through the series until people are giving birth to ghosts, stealing people's faces and using them as perfect disguises, wielding magic swords and unleasing dragons onto their enemies. Oh, and some light time travel.

The issue I have with "some fantasy elements" in a shared setting like this is that you very quickly lose any sort of cohesive style for the world and things get pretty out of hand pretty quicky. Something like Dawn of Worlds almost always ends up pretty goofy with a lot of off the wall goofball stuff. I'm not saying it's impossible to create something coherent but come on guys, lets be real, it's us we're talking about here. Me and Pat seem to have completely opposite taste about stuff about 50% of the time so chances are if we gave a carte blanche for fantastical elements someone would end up pissing off someone else without realising.

I#ll pretty much just go along with whatever the collective decides but that's my two cents.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 04, 2016, 11:50:59 am
Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

Any thoughts on the Pangaea idea?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on December 04, 2016, 11:57:06 am
Pangea sounds good to me.

Pangea in her pan-rear.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 04, 2016, 12:22:07 pm
Out of curiosity, since we're at the start of this, instead of trying to fit tectonics onto an existing Map 4, do we just want to start with a generated Pangaea, cut it in spots, and then extrapolate it out? Ovi was showing me a thread yesterday at the Cartographer's Guild that laid out a very similar process. It wouldn't take that much longer and now that we have a couple more experienced players in the game it could be pretty great.

https://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=2238

Thoughts? Remember there's no rush and there is plenty of time to discuss! :)

The only problem I have with starting with plate tectonics is that we lose the infinite zoom of the vector map. And it's not like adding the plates after is too difficult. I thought mine came out okay. I didn't add in the plate directions in case people wanted to make changes to it, but I already had a vague idea of which way they would head.

As for fantastical elements, I'm definitely in the anti- group. Sam pretty much summed up how I feel about it. Besides, restrictions breed creativity much more than free reign (at least I've found that to be so).
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 04, 2016, 12:31:59 pm
Right right the vectors! Yeah okay, that's fine by me. Your plates look good as well.

Perhaps we could incorporate some sort of fantasy idea into the "mother nature" idea I was discussing last week. Basically each turn one person gets to be mother nature and gets to cause events to occur around the planet before everyone else begins their turns. Would allow us to have some random or unexpected events happen and each turn it would rotate to a new person. Maybe we include some kind of event that is a miracle or some other unexplained happening that impacts history.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 04, 2016, 02:28:23 pm
Here are the plate directions I came up with:

(http://i.imgur.com/XicBpLU.png)

And the blank version (you can replace the "Tectonics" layer in Google Earth with this one):

(http://i.imgur.com/XYFRZAN.png)

These are functional, more than aesthetically pleasing. :P
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 04, 2016, 03:18:32 pm
Ok here is my guess of where mountains and trenches will form.

(http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h202/Hydromancerx/plates_zpsbye0opbg.png)

Red = Big Mountains
Orange = Small Mountains
Blue = Stays Flat
Green = Makes Trench
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 04, 2016, 03:31:10 pm
Here's a good article about plate tectonics (https://www.britannica.com/science/plate-tectonics) that should help define terms better. Faults basically fall into three categories, convergent, divergent, and transverse. Fault lines also generally promote the formation of volcanoes. Also, make sure to view it on the globe to get the full perspective.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 04, 2016, 03:46:40 pm
In that article's picture it looks like single plates don't go in just one direction.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 04, 2016, 03:58:01 pm
Well, for the pea brains in the group like myself, let's keep it pretty straightforward since we're already going into plate tectonics and that is a bit more deep than even I initially expected. :3

Plates move in one direction.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 04, 2016, 04:13:25 pm
Technically plates move in arcs (which is why they seem to move in more than one direction). But yeah, for the simplicity of this game, we should use straight lines.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Inkling on December 04, 2016, 04:38:06 pm
Are the land masses going to be shifting on the map, or is this just to help place mountain ranges and stuff?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 04, 2016, 04:50:10 pm
The latter. Once we set the landforms and biomes, the rest takes place at human timescales.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 04, 2016, 06:26:04 pm
I'm joining the anti-goblin party as well. Sorry Hydro and Slinky. I have enough trouble wiith goblins in my day to day life, I don't want them in my games.

Awwww. :( What about the rest of you guys? Inkling?

Haha I was kind of hoping for some fantasy too, but it isn't as big a deal to me.

We have time until we reach any stage where we'd need to consider magic, maybe we can come up with a compromise then? Maybe some kind of slow magical force that permeates? I dunno. Or nothing at all! Remember guys, we have time on our side! Just don't die and we should be fine. :P

Out of curiosity, since we're at the start of this, instead of trying to fit tectonics onto an existing Map 4, do we just want to start with a generated Pangaea, cut it in spots, and then extrapolate it out? Ovi was showing me a thread yesterday at the Cartographer's Guild that laid out a very similar process. It wouldn't take that much longer and now that we have a couple more experienced players in the game it could be pretty great.

https://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=2238

Thoughts? Remember there's no rush and there is plenty of time to discuss! :)

Well the whole tech idea would not be "magic" but could appear like magic. Such as make there are microscopic nanite clouds that for all intensive purposes do the same things that magic can do if programed to do so. So maybe a mage is just someone who has learned how to code them to do things. Would be interesting if magic tomes were really just computer tablets. And things like "Anti-magic" would be like EMP stuff. Metals like Mithril are really just Advanced Alloys. And scrying or looking into magic mirrors are just TV screens and remote cameras.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Slinky on December 04, 2016, 08:42:53 pm
Goblins are literally my favorite fantasy creature :(

And as for fantasy, it would at least be cool to have animals that don't exist, even if they're not fairies and stuff, we could take a sci fi approach and just have weird animals
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Josasa on December 04, 2016, 09:16:27 pm
Well, for the pea brains in the group like myself, let's keep it pretty straightforward since we're already going into plate tectonics and that is a bit more deep than even I initially expected. :3

Plates move in one direction.

Technically plates move in arcs (which is why they seem to move in more than one direction). But yeah, for the simplicity of this game, we should use straight lines.

Really, once the tectonic plates are set and the mountains/trenches drawn in, I don't see them playing much of a factor in the game. If they're moving in 'multiple' directions, that really just allows us to place mountains/trenches where we want etc. However, I don't think that matters because based on Hydro's interpretation, the map looks like it has some pretty interesting stuff going on already anyway.

Goblins are literally my favorite fantasy creature :(

And as for fantasy, it would at least be cool to have animals that don't exist, even if they're not fairies and stuff, we could take a sci fi approach and just have weird animals

I'm not opposed to woolly mammoths or giant sloths since they did exist in the same time frame as humans, but I'm iffy about anything beyond that. I could probably be persuaded either way.

I might be getting ahead of myself, but when we start looking at placing cultures in the Stone Age, I think it would make sense to have a ground zero for humanity and then migrate peoples away from that point. There could be several initial groups that move in different directions from ground zero which eventually branch further into more diverse peoples that settle the world. This could add some interesting backstory between cultures rather than just plopping people around the world and trying to come up with a creation story for how they got there.

And I definitely like Pat's idea for introducing disasters into the game. We'll need some crushing catastrophes in our history, not just constant forward progress.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Slinky on December 04, 2016, 09:25:17 pm
Two quick things:

That little island I wanted to drop my civ on looks like it's totally gonna be volcanic which is cool :D

The other thing is a proposal for where to have this human origin point - the mountain range on the bottom of the Western continent is a sort of "U" shape - what if the inside of the U was a very fertile area (a place for humans to start) and the outer, coastal part was arid and beachy? I think that'd be a cool starting point :)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 05, 2016, 03:46:36 am
I agree with most of what has been discussed so far.

As for the dawn of man or whatever. Was discussing some of it with Ovi yesterday. What if we start off with humans in one location and work on them for a couple turns. After maybe two or three turns we could have an event or something: "Humanity migrates!" and a new group that has reached some level of sustainability will appear at a different location on that starting continent or something. Every few turns we could leapfrog outwards and add another wing of human settlement.

For the plates, yeah I kind of saw it like Ovi and Jos are describing it. We can use it to help get an idea how the world looks early-on. And afterwards we can remember those fault lines and locations for event planning, but otherwise we aren't going to be locked down on ten million years of geological history. :U
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on December 05, 2016, 03:53:06 am
I'm ok with scifi animals.

As long as they're not psionic or whatever.

Nature is pretty weird so as long as we don't go overboard on wacky animals like bombardier beetles or midwife toads we should be cool :)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 05, 2016, 03:56:26 am
Agreed.

And as if to illustrate the worry above, we went from maybe some minor magic elements to outlining magic and anti-magic, armors and materials, and a giant open door for more. I'm starting to lean more towards the "no-magic" side of this discussion now. The slope is very very slippery. If we're talking nanite clouds and whatnot... well, let's delve into those issues when our made-up civilizations are advanced enough to have that discussion along with us. :3
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 05, 2016, 03:05:50 pm
My thought was that we start the human stage at the literal dawn of man, equivalent to approximately 250,000 years ago. We'd then play their spread throughout the world until we reach the point where the first permanent settlements appear. As humanity spreads, differing races and cultures would appear and even though some parts of the world would start to settle, there would still be lots of societies that remain "uncivilized." I mean, we still have some of them today (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncontacted_peoples)! That way, it feels more like a living, breathing world and less like a game of Civilization.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 05, 2016, 03:21:36 pm
Sounds cool!
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 05, 2016, 06:25:20 pm
More ideas for "plausible fantasy" ...

Elves and Dwarves are new subspecies of Human. The Elves came about though living on low gravity worlds and got taller and thinner. While the dwarves came about though high gravity worlds and became shorter and stronger. The dwarves lived on a world with higher radiation and thus had to live in underground colonies. Which is why their culture is so subterranean. While the elves lived on terraformed garden planets with emphasis towards nature.

Half elves would be still half Elf and Half Human, but perhaps Halflings could be half dwarf half elf and Gnomes could be half Dwarf and half Human. Orcs could be genetic super soldiers. And half orcs could be the the offspring of those with humans (maybe even the other sub-races too).
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on December 06, 2016, 04:12:55 am
Nooooo we are not making Shadowrun world. D:
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 06, 2016, 04:42:10 am
Nooooo we are not making Shadowrun world. D:

Wow! I had heard the name "Shadowrun" mentioned by D&D people but never knew what it was. How did I not know of this!!  :o :o :o :o

EDIT: Bah looks like they still use real magic and dragons and stuff. Booo! I like my ideas better.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 06, 2016, 06:49:59 am
Shadowrun is awesome, Hydro. You should look into that more some time.

Right, so we've got our plates more or less done. Let's get this boat show on the road!
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 06, 2016, 09:28:29 am
Did a rough map to show where likely mountains would be placed.

(http://i.imgur.com/TkxNoem.png)

The red lines are all fault lines that would cause mountains to form. One special caveat is the Northeastern continent. The north-south fault line is a transform fault (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transform_fault), which is where the land slides past each other rather than into or away from one another. That island in the center is just a giant volcano lol
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 06, 2016, 02:29:44 pm
Right, so the order of events.

We've got our map outline and plates decided upon. We also know where there are likely to be somewhat large mountain ranges. I assume we'll be able to paint in smaller ranges here and there.

At this point we can also get an idea of what some of our biomes are going to look like. Are we ready to begin painting biomes? How would you like to go about terraforming areas? A grid? Just call out places? Discussion and teamwork? We have options! :D
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 06, 2016, 02:46:56 pm
You need to draw the Equator, Tropic lines (ex tropic of Cancer) and polar circle lines. So we can tell where each of the 3 categories of biomes will be (polar, temperate and tropical). After they are drawn you need to draw the sea currents so we can accurately place biomes.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 06, 2016, 03:24:56 pm
(http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h202/Hydromancerx/seacurrents_zpsu8qznrhu.png)
Blue = Cold Current
Pink = Warm Current

I made a quick version of hwo sea currents could work. This will help us determine where biomes should go.

You can see how sea currents influenced the map for Sagan 4

http://wiki.mydigiview.com/images/1/1d/Sagan4_w26_gigantic_labeled.jpg

Dry to Wet
 Desert -> Grassland -> Scubland -> Woodland -> Rainforest -> Wetland

Tropical
Dune -> Savanna -> Tropical Scrubalnd -> Tropical Woodland -> Tropical Rianforest -> Swamp

Temperate
Desert -> Plains -> Scrubland -> Temperate Woodland -> Temperate Rainforest -> Marsh

Polar
Tundra -> Polar Scrub -> Taiga -> Bog

Mountain
High Desert -> High Grassland -> Rocky -> Boreal -> Alpine -> Moor
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 06, 2016, 03:44:26 pm
I like the stratification of biome types. There's a lot there, but it seems like detail that will be useful to have.

As for the currents, I like it. I just don't know if my judgement on this aspect is the best to go by. So I'll wait for more input.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Josasa on December 06, 2016, 04:51:38 pm
I like the currents and biomes setup. Feels like it's coming together. Below is another jump ahead, but it was something I was thinking about while at work.

Lengthy post ahead, looking forward to some discussion around it!

I was looking back at Oviís breakdown of Eras and Ages and I liked the organization, but then I got to thinking. Iím not sure if this is the same for everyone else, but when I look at periods of time, like the Medieval Era or the Age of Gunpowder, it defines a pretty specific ĎEuro-centricí model of history for that time. Most of the history Iíve read is based on the ĎEuro-centricí view point so Iíll admit thatís what Iím most familiar with, but I donít believe a culture like China defines their past with similar terms. Given their more isolationist view on the world, the Age of Sail doesnít seem an appropriate descriptor for their section of history, except for maybe Zheng He and the Chinese treasure ships which lasted for all of a century at most. Again, Iím not well versed in Chinese history and they may very well have a period labeled similar to the Age of Sail. My point is that using some of these labels could pigeon hole our ideas into specific time periods that might limit our creativity. This might make the world more Earth-like than we intended.

My suggestion is somewhat based on Ian Morrisí Why the West Rules Ė For Now which has some similarities with Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond. Both are pretty decent reads for a project like this.  One of the underlying principles was a series of high points for civilization and then subsequent crashes (not necessarily low points). Once weíre out of the Prehistoric Era (I think that timeline still makes a lot of sense since itís pretty generic despite its reference to technology) I suggest we label time periods as either ages of Convergence or Divergence. The idea here is that this designates a time period as a rough guideline for the conglomeration of peoples under larger governments (empires, federations, etc.), or the breakup of these empires into smaller polities (city-states, kingdoms). You could think of it like bubbles that continue to merge before finally popping and restarting the process. This way, we can come up with our own ĎAgeí names based on the history weíve created. Maybe we have a massive singular empire that discovers the new world or city-states that undergo the industrial revolution.

These time periods can even be specific to certain geographical areas once the initial culture groups are placed and it becomes clear which cultures are in contact with each other. While one area is converging into larger nations, another area could be fragmenting into kingdoms.

I think thereís a good premise for this based on Earthís history. In a grand generalization, there is the creation of the Roman Empire and the eventual breakup into European kingdoms. These started to solidify back into nations over time until the world wars which followed another period of fragmentation, etc. Thatís a very basic overview that skips a lot of history, but I hope it gets my idea across. The lengths of convergence or divergence can be varied based on our tastes. This can allow us to stretch out the game as long as we like since we could slow down human advancement with more divergent setbacks like Patís suggestion about natural disasters, disease, angry beavers, etc.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 06, 2016, 05:12:16 pm
Bolded and redded to make sure you read this part:

I can create a geological profile for the planet if you guys like. I'll go though add all the elevation data on the 10k scale image. Also clean up the fault data and what not (probably make some minor changes, but should be mostly what Pat laid out). It might take me a few days, but it should be a nice presentable map when it's done.

As for biomes, I'd use this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vegetation.png) as a reference. But I wouldn't start adding them until i finish the geological profile map.

(http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h202/Hydromancerx/seacurrents_zpsu8qznrhu.png)

Also, that map will probably have to be redone. Both because the elevation map might affect things and because you've drawn the tropical and polar circles in the wrong places. They should be at the latitudes indicated in this article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_latitude).

...ALL THE TEXTS...

Some good ideas. Keep in mind that was just a preliminary idea, not meant to necessarily be final. It also was meant to describe the time period technologically instead of politically, but it's hard to do specifically because of the reasons you outlined. Anyway, I'm definitely open to any changes to the system I came up with.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on December 06, 2016, 05:25:37 pm
Words

Thumbs up from me. If we wanted to get really fancy with it then I'd suggest the cycles of covergeance and diveregeance should be out of sync for different parts of the world. So on one continent there might be an ascendent empire while on another there's a breakdown of organised states.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Slinky on December 06, 2016, 05:30:45 pm
Convergence/divergence is a really cool idea, sounds fun
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 06, 2016, 05:32:26 pm
I can create a geological profile for the planet if you guys like. I'll go though add all the elevation data on the 10k scale image. Also clean up the fault data and what not (probably make some minor changes, but should be mostly what Pat laid out). It might take me a few days, but it should be a nice presentable map when it's done.

Oh, also, feel free to throw out your ideas of where you guys might think old mountain ranges might be (i.e. Appalachian, Ural, etc.).
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Slinky on December 06, 2016, 06:27:37 pm
Maybe have the southeastern continent have an old mountain range? It seems like it's drifted the farthest from its original Pangaea place
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 06, 2016, 07:00:39 pm
Words

Thumbs up from me. If we wanted to get really fancy with it then I'd suggest the cycles of covergeance and diveregeance should be out of sync for different parts of the world. So on one continent there might be an ascendent empire while on another there's a breakdown of organised states.

Yes and yes. I think we will be able to gauge a lot of this better once we have an actual group of people milling about on the surface. But I like the idea of keeping it amorphous, rather than based on our own historical model.

Ovi, I'd love to see your maps. I guess the biomes and topography will, to an extent, be pre-determined due to the fact that we're doing plates. Will we still be doing a "land phase" or a "terraforming phase"? How is that going to work? Or is that kind of out the window since we went with this "plates" model?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 06, 2016, 07:07:56 pm
I think we should still pick the regions for fauna equivalency (similar to how we started to do in PCP3]we started to do in PCP3 (http://www.gamingsteve.com/blab/index.php?topic=18737.msg882087#msg882087)). Easier than just making up as we go along. This could probably wait until after the biomes are picked.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 06, 2016, 08:14:06 pm
As for biomes, I'd use this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vegetation.png) as a reference. But I wouldn't start adding them until i finish the geological profile map.

That system is both more complex than the system I proposed. I also think some areas are very specific like "Broadleaf Forest". Which is specific to Earth. In my system it would just be like "Temperate Woodland" much more generic. But based on that I would say ...

Tundra = Tundra
Polar Scubland = Not Listed
Taiga = Taiga
Bog = Not Listed

Desert = Semi Arid Desert
Plains = Temperate Steppe
Chaparral = Mediterranean Vegetation
Temperate Woodland = Broadleaf Forest
Temperate Rainforest = Montane Forest
Marsh = Not Listed

Dunes = Arid Desert
Savanna = Grass Savanna
Tropical Scubland = Tree Savanna
Tropical Woodland = Sub Tropical Dry Forest
Tropical Rainforest = Tropical Rainforest
Swamp = Not Listed

High Desert = Not A Separate Biome
High Grassland = Not A Separate Biome
Rocky = Xeric Shrubland
Volcanic = Not Listed
Boreal = Not A Separate Biome
Alpine = Alpine Tundra
Moor = Not Listed

Not Listed ? = Monsoon Forest
Not Listed ? = Subtropical Rainforest

Ice = Ice / Ice Sheet
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 06, 2016, 10:36:38 pm
I think we should still pick the regions for fauna equivalency (similar to how we started to do in PCP3]we started to do in PCP3 (http://www.gamingsteve.com/blab/index.php?topic=18737.msg882087#msg882087)). Easier than just making up as we go along. This could probably wait until after the biomes are picked.

I like this idea. But I also like Hydro's comprehensive list of biomes. :U

Also since we're going this far into making the world believable, are we all okay with going down a more realistic path as opposed to a fantasy or magic route?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 07, 2016, 12:03:03 am
I think we should still pick the regions for fauna equivalency (similar to how we started to do in PCP3]we started to do in PCP3 (http://www.gamingsteve.com/blab/index.php?topic=18737.msg882087#msg882087)). Easier than just making up as we go along. This could probably wait until after the biomes are picked.

Well in Caveman 2 Cosmos what we did is assign animals to spawning coordinates. So no matter the map the anials would spawn in the correct part of the globe. So like Kanagroos always ended up in the Southeast part of the globe. Since we have more control over this map i do not think this should be done for this map. Likewise just declaring like this land mass as "New Africa" a wasted opportunity. What if we just made up plausible animals based on existing ones. Like maybe they don't have aiger but they have some sort of big cat that fills that role.

We would not have to make every single animal but add them as we tell our story as needed.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 07, 2016, 08:07:45 am
I think we can leave some room open for the creation of other species. It may not be as open-ended as something like Spore since we're heading towards a realism angle. But yeah, I think we can make both work. Clearly there is a desire on the part of some players to do this, so it should be incorporated.

Would it be reasonable to ask that whatever we make, we try to keep humanity as the primary race? Or should we make them earn it and have two competing intelligent races? Are we prepared to play that out to its conclusion? Could do the classic human/reptile split.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Slinky on December 07, 2016, 10:58:29 am
Two races would be really cool, especially reptilians :)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 07, 2016, 11:26:52 am
I really like this map that was posted: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biome

It makes sense to me that we just use this map key. We can just use the eyedropper tool to get the color and bam, we're off and rolling. It is also a fairly comprehensive list but not needlessly complex.

I'm also on board with the ideas of divergence and convergence. Should that be a mechanic that we are bound to abide by? Or should we keep it as an informal policy that we try to uphold?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on December 07, 2016, 12:17:58 pm
I agree with the map biomes and colours, keeps it nice and consistent.

The Jared Diamond thing should be an informal policy.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 07, 2016, 12:52:02 pm
Oh also! If any of you wanna discuss the game or whatever, feel free to hit me up on Steam whenever I'm online. Maybe we can get a couple people every now and again.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 07, 2016, 02:38:22 pm
I really like this map that was posted: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biome

It makes sense to me that we just use this map key. We can just use the eyedropper tool to get the color and bam, we're off and rolling. It is also a fairly comprehensive list but not needlessly complex.

I'm also on board with the ideas of divergence and convergence. Should that be a mechanic that we are bound to abide by? Or should we keep it as an informal policy that we try to uphold?

Wait you said you liked my system now you said you liked this system. Which do you like? The colors of this system with the biomes of my system?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 07, 2016, 02:46:29 pm
I think we can leave some room open for the creation of other species. It may not be as open-ended as something like Spore since we're heading towards a realism angle. But yeah, I think we can make both work. Clearly there is a desire on the part of some players to do this, so it should be incorporated.

Would it be reasonable to ask that whatever we make, we try to keep humanity as the primary race? Or should we make them earn it and have two competing intelligent races? Are we prepared to play that out to its conclusion? Could do the classic human/reptile split.

If we are doing a Reptilian race I suggest the"Dinosauroid" race instead.

http://povorot.deviantart.com/gallery/9348116/The-Dinosauroids

They are the most realistic sentient/sapient dinosaurs I have seen. Note they live in a world with humans too. In their scenario not all the dinosaurs died out. Some smaller dinosaurs survived (besides the birds like our timeline).

Here are some of the new animals from their world ...

http://povorot.deviantart.com/gallery/9348132/The-World-They-Live-In

Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on December 07, 2016, 03:28:27 pm
I'm open to a two species idea but I'd prefer something more caveman like. A different evolutionary branch diverging from our common ancestor with gorillas possibly.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 07, 2016, 09:53:49 pm
Wait you said you liked my system now you said you liked this system. Which do you like? The colors of this system with the biomes of my system?

I like both but I am also looking at it from the perspective of keeping things moving along. That map comes with a good list of biomes, a map key already made in simple colors we can eyedrop in most programs, and allows us to easily glance and get info. If real cartographers are using it there's no reason we should try to reinvent the wheel unnecessarily. So it's more than just the colors and the biome names. That wiki page offers up a complete product ready to ship, which is ultimately what we need here.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 07, 2016, 11:51:50 pm
The biomes of Sagan 4 have been used for years now with only minor tweaks. The example used in that dosn't seem to be any stardard system, just a map used on wikipedia.

Real climates systems like the Koppen climate classification system (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%B6ppen_climate_classification) are what most use but its very complex. Which is Why Sagan 4 was simplified. We also have our own key on the map if you cared to look.

http://wiki.mydigiview.com/index.php?title=Image:Sagan4_w26_gigantic_labeled.jpg

Yes I use the eyedropper tool too. However its purple and pink to reflect the purple flora of Sagan 4. Also blue for land was mostly avoided due to having ocean biomes too.

EDIT: Here is a combo key from both using more Earth-like colors.

(http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h202/Hydromancerx/biomekey_zpszbfrzaxm.png)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 08, 2016, 07:45:31 am
Does anyone else have thoughts? I'm trying to be encouraging to everyone's ideas in hopes that they'll provide us with lots of information so we can all make a decision. But I'm not hearing much from you guys. I don't want to be the one making all of these decisions. I'm getting the sense that maybe some of you don't want to stick your toes into this debate for fear it gets heated.

I think Hydro's plan is good, but I worry a bit because he is pushing for it really hard and nobody is really offering any advice. If we reject his plan without giving him a fair discussion, why should he continue to bother playing with us? On the other hand, we also need to discuss all of the plans and not just Hydro's plan, even though he really really really wants us to use that one.

So come on guys, this is the one we have to discuss now. The other things have time before their due date. But these biome types are the issue on the docket for today. So let's get this one in the books before this evening. :)

How will we do biomes? Would you like to go with Oviraptor's plan or Hydromancerx's plan? Each are successful models, Ovi's based on real-world maps and offers more simplicity and Hydro's based on and used for a game that is somewhat similar to our own and this system is quite comprehensive, plus it is known to work. Each has merit. Let's talk!
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Brandonazz on December 08, 2016, 09:02:17 am
I like both but I am also looking at it from the perspective of keeping things moving along. That map comes with a good list of biomes, a map key already made in simple colors we can eyedrop in most programs, and allows us to easily glance and get info. If real cartographers are using it there's no reason we should try to reinvent the wheel unnecessarily. So it's more than just the colors and the biome names. That wiki page offers up a complete product ready to ship, which is ultimately what we need here.

This is my position. It has the added benefit of allowing us to look up real-world-actual-images of locations with any given climate to see exactly what it looks like.

You want subtropical rainforest? Let me just step outside for a minute. The highs are in the 80s F this week.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 08, 2016, 09:05:06 am
Oh damn that is an excellent point. If we come up against any issues, we can reconcile them against a map of a real-world location with similar features.

Yeah that about seals it for me. Damn that was like, the perfect point.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Slinky on December 08, 2016, 01:07:58 pm
Yeah, I think Hydro's system is really cool and seems really thought-out and well-tested, and maybe if we weren't going for such hard realism it would be perfect, but I agree with Brandon's point too - so I guess I'm leaning towards Ovi's thing but I would be satisfied either way.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Josasa on December 08, 2016, 01:45:26 pm
Brandon raises an excellent point and I'm in favor of Ovi's system.

As for two species, I'm against that. If the group decides they're in favor of moving with two sentient species, my views align with Sam's:
I'm open to a two species idea but I'd prefer something more caveman like. A different evolutionary branch diverging from our common ancestor with gorillas possibly.

Dinosauroids seems like too much of a jump for me. Seems to go against the realist approach.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 08, 2016, 04:20:31 pm
Brandon pretty much expressed exactly my thoughts on the biome issue. This is the same reason I want to do the Earth continent equivalence zones for species. Need an plant or animal? Just look up what's the the corresponding area on Earth an you know exactly what kind of things live there. Much easier than keeping track of a list. Also, prevents things like kangaroos and rhinos from hanging out with grizzly bears. Plus, there is so much data we can just use instead of making up our own!

As for having another species...

On real Earth, there were five species alive ~250,000 years ago (the time frame I suggested we start), Homo sapiens, Homo neanderthalensis, Denisovans, Homo floresiensis, and Homo erectus. However, all were gone (one way or another) by approximately 40,000 years ago. Personally, I prefer to keep it that way. Adding another species into the mix takes the focus away from "How would civilization be different on this planet?" to "What would happen if XYZ didn't go extinct?" If we wanted to do a scenario like that, it would make more sense to just use regular old Earth. Changing both just creates too many variables for my taste.

Also, I'm still working on the geological detail map. I'm hoping to finish it this weekend.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 08, 2016, 04:31:07 pm
Cool beans! Thank you for the hard work you've put in so far, Ovi.

One species sounds good for a new creation. We've already got enough on our plate as it is.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 08, 2016, 06:30:13 pm
Also, prevents things like kangaroos and rhinos from hanging out with grizzly bears.

I could see all 3 of these in the same biome ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree-kangaroo
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumatran_rhinoceros
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_bear

It all depends on how the species is adapted to the biome.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 08, 2016, 09:55:03 pm
Missed a fourth one, Hydro: the elusive Dropbear.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 08, 2016, 10:55:35 pm
Missed a fourth one, Hydro: the elusive Dropbear.

If he had said Koala then I would have.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 09, 2016, 01:39:48 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/3eCJ7zy.jpg)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on December 09, 2016, 01:57:38 pm
Can we get some sort of provisionally finished map up soon before the project tears itself apart in an explosion of saltiness? >_>

Sorry I've taken a backseat on this stuff so far but geography isn't my strong point. However as soon as some humans and/or monkeymen are on the scene we are very much in my wheelhouse :Y
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 09, 2016, 01:59:36 pm
I'll hopefully finish the geological detail map this weekend. 10,000 x 5,000 pixels is a pretty big area...
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 09, 2016, 02:50:03 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/3eCJ7zy.jpg)

Dude Ovi you have been a bit mean lately. Calm the heck down.  >:(
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Slinky on December 09, 2016, 03:20:31 pm
the whole forum has been mean lately, man :(
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 09, 2016, 03:39:06 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 09, 2016, 03:47:30 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPYwcTDVRAg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTmk0Pqk6hs
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 09, 2016, 04:37:14 pm
I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT'S GOING ON. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9P76mBwpVT8)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Slinky on December 09, 2016, 07:10:43 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 09, 2016, 08:35:39 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ykup4vetvmw
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Brandonazz on December 10, 2016, 01:10:32 am
AHEM.

So Ovi, are you going to paint the biomes or should we try to divide up the effort?

I want to see this reach a stage where the people watching from the sidelines can do more than agree with things other people said or ****post.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 10, 2016, 05:25:40 am
The map I am working on now is just the geological detail, so just elevations plates, and other geological stuff. I think Hydro volunteered to work on the biome map, but it's hard for anyone to work on until I finish my map. *Crack whip at self.*
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Brandonazz on December 10, 2016, 07:34:13 am
Your purpose in life is to make beautiful maps for us, never forget that.

We take maps very seriously here.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 10, 2016, 07:59:31 am
This small break gives us a time to discuss something else important.

Picture editing! How are we going to do it? We can't use paint, this is a bit too complex for that. But not all of us may have Photoshop. I've since lost Photoshop so I'm using GIMP, which I can recommend. It has the toolset we need, just with different names than what Photoshop offers. And it is free.

https://www.gimp.org/

Optimally I'd like us to all be working with at least a similar level of functionality, and I know GIMP has some parity with Photoshop which would let us use both with some minor coordination.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Inkling on December 10, 2016, 11:51:54 am
So I guess we dropped the second intelligent species thing?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 10, 2016, 12:33:43 pm
Hopefully!

Also, I had to switch to using Gimp (part of the reason it's taking me longer to make the map, I don't know the program well) because my outdated program couldn't handle the large map we are using this time. Seriously, it said there wasn't enough memory to save the image... How does that even work?!
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Brandonazz on December 10, 2016, 12:41:47 pm
It probably can't remember how.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 10, 2016, 01:53:36 pm
it said there wasn't enough memory to save the image... How does that even work?!

System memory or hard drive space?

Was the program or its temp folder set to a location with limited storage space? That'll throw a wrench into the works with larger images. Or... maybe you just blew through all of your available system memory, which would be something. :P
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 10, 2016, 02:29:07 pm
It's probably because the program is from 2003. I looked up info on it, and it apparently can't handle images larger than 4,999 x 4,999, for some reason. Gimp is probably a better program anyway, just a matter of learning the tools.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 10, 2016, 05:00:23 pm
The map I am working on now is just the geological detail, so just elevations plates, and other geological stuff. I think Hydro volunteered to work on the biome map, but it's hard for anyone to work on until I finish my map. *Crack whip at self.*

Actually i was explaining how the biomes would be placed. For some reason when i post large images the image host makes them much smaller. So I can always post small image and then you could transcribe them to become bigger and more detailed. Or just do the biomes yourself based on the sea current map and your topography map. Between those you should be able to determine accurate biome placement.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Inkling on December 10, 2016, 05:12:54 pm
So we're going for roughly the same biomes and the same spread of them as there would be on earth? Or I guess what makes sense with the same conditions but different continents.  Not a jungle world or desert world or something.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Brandonazz on December 10, 2016, 05:19:32 pm
We don't want a single-biome planet (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SingleBiomePlanet).

(http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/comics/irreg0087.jpg)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Inkling on December 10, 2016, 05:55:04 pm
Right, I didn't mean single biome, though I did kinda say that.  I meant tweak factors like raise or lower temperature, oxygen, etc.  So we're thinking something like the current climate, not an ice age or the Cretaceous period or something.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 10, 2016, 09:59:34 pm
No-oxygen humans.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 11, 2016, 07:51:01 pm
Didn't quite finish it this weekend, but I'm very close! Here is a full resolution preview to hold you over:

(http://i.imgur.com/Q8XA9mg.png)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Inkling on December 11, 2016, 07:58:59 pm
Mmm, this thing is gonna have a lot of detail.   ...Detail that I'm afraid I'll screw up if I'm supposed to edit in stuff as part of the game.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 11, 2016, 08:11:20 pm
Nah, don't fear. You're all capable.

Also don't rush, the game is set to a cool pace. Everyone can take their time on stuff, this is still THE BEGINNING. Try not to die before we finish the game!!
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Inkling on December 11, 2016, 08:34:30 pm
I still don't even know HOW we're gonna play this.  But I have a few ideas for a civilization.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Josasa on December 11, 2016, 10:58:30 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/Hm3eqPN.png)

I'm pretty sure this is what Ovi is thinking right now.

(Also wanted a chance to show off my awesome paint editing skillz)

EDIT: Also got my first chance to look at this map in Google Earth and it's intense. Very difficult to get my bearings down, although I'm sure biome colors will help with the cardinal directions. I'm very excited for this!
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 12, 2016, 05:04:06 am
Amazing preview Ovi!  :o
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 12, 2016, 06:38:32 am
That's why Ovi is the man! :D

As for gameplay, I expect we'll be doing it much like Dawn of Worlds with the point system and whatnot. Basically, once Ovi is able to establish a basic map with a good map key, we'll be able to fairly easily use something like the eyedropper tool and a paint brush to pick up the colors/elevations we need and plop them down in their new configuration. At worse, we'll hopefully just have to tweak things base on poor art skills (me) rather than actual mistakes and whatnot.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on December 12, 2016, 07:18:41 am
Here's a wild question: Do we need points?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Brandonazz on December 12, 2016, 09:24:44 am
Waiting for people to use their points did add a lot of annoying delays in the past.

Then again, asking people to walk back an overreaching bit of story means they wasted time and also disrupts the game.

Unless you think we can all be trusted with so much FREEDOMTM.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 12, 2016, 09:46:54 am
Both are valid things to bring up. Do we even need to take turns?

Maybe we just set an era or something and give it a start and end point that we can work freely within until we decide we're done? Or we can set a (long) time?

Should major changes to geography be brought up for a discussion? How will we handle random events or something to disrupt planning and too much meta-gaming?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Haseri on December 12, 2016, 10:18:54 am
Just delurking with an idea: use Microscope (http://www.lamemage.com/microscope/) as a guide. For those that don't have it, Microscope has this broad brush approach - you know the beginning and end, you're just - fractally - drilling down through history. Every round someone chooses a lens, something to focus on, and everyone gets a chance to create something that relates to that lens.

In this game, this can be curated in turn or just going through each area of the planet in turn to do biology and the beginnings of society, then once it get to society, you can choose a specific lens ('the city of Urkash' or 'the Scepter of the True Kings'). As long as you keep the first rule of improv, 'yes and...', in mind, there shouldn't be too many arguments. The person who chooses the lens lasts either a set amount of time, or until everyone has contributed something to the lens.

In Microscope you start the game listing things you don't want to see and what you'd like to see (but might not come up), which you've started doing already to a certain extent.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 12, 2016, 10:28:28 am
Sounds like these Microscope guys might owe us some royalties.

Sam, call the lawyers. I'll get the flashlights.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on December 12, 2016, 10:37:52 am
Nah they don't owe us ****. None of us have ever sat down and carefully created a setting-independent worldbuilding rulest :Y
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 12, 2016, 02:32:51 pm
EDIT: Also got my first chance to look at this map in Google Earth and it's intense. Very difficult to get my bearings down, although I'm sure biome colors will help with the cardinal directions. I'm very excited for this!

Turning on the grid helps a lot!

Should major changes to geography be brought up for a discussion?

Well, hopefully there won't be major changes to the geography!
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 12, 2016, 02:45:40 pm
If we are going super detail on the map then perhaps we should go super detail on the animals in the biomes. I have lots of experience in this area thanks to Sagan 4. If you want I can make it a mix of real animals as well a plausible new species based on the geography of this planet.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Inkling on December 12, 2016, 03:47:46 pm
Maybe some people will want to focus on certain aspects of the world instead of everybody taking on a certain civilization.

It might be helpful to have a conversation about what we want out of this project.  It seems we all came in with different ideas.  Some people seem to want this to be as close to Earth and it's history as possible, some want magic or fantasy or speculative elements.  When this first started I thought this was going to be like Dawn of Worlds again with a dozen races and magic and gods and stuff.  Seems we're leaning more toward the realistic end of the scale.

So what are our goals?  What's the endgame?  Are we collaborating to write a history of an alternate earth?  Will we competing, having civilizations fight against each other?  Can I have an island full of Moas and other extinct animals?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 12, 2016, 04:07:45 pm
I imagined it as the next PCP. So, "collaborating to write a history of an alternate earth" is what I envisioned.

Can I have an island full of Moas and other extinct animals?

I would say, any organism that went extinct because of humans could exist at the start of the game. Who knows what could go extinct on our world?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 12, 2016, 05:00:34 pm
I just wanna get a small piece of land and try to make something as complete as I can with a level of detail that I am satisfied with.

My vision was to start with a space and try to plot out a bunch of small villages over the distance that would be logical and realistic. Over time I'd work on that area and maybe start others, but I am interested in seeing how it changes over the years. I'd like to build a logical structure that could be any actual civilization or group at a point in time. Admittedly I also told myself that I was going to shoot for more of a mundane level of amazing things. In the past I've been too fixated on setpiece-style creation, and in the last few years since I've done a project I am trying more and more to find what I can with fewer creations and more detail.

But I'm expecting to do some hardcore measurements and whatnot. It seems as if the game is definitely more civilization and creature focused rather than literally building the world. And I am okay with this.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 12, 2016, 07:10:05 pm
Another thing I want to do is make lots of maps of whatever I or we create. Like, I want to make lots of villages with detail, like I said before. And even beyond our maps, maybe make some stylized in-world maps. Something like the Middle-Earth maps or whatever. Plus all the history. I can't wait to get into that and see what develops. The rise and fall of civilizations will be neat to see and look back on, both in-universe and outside.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Josasa on December 12, 2016, 11:00:07 pm
I imagined it as the next PCP. So, "collaborating to write a history of an alternate earth" is what I envisioned.

This is what I was envisioning as well. My want out of this game is to come up with a world that has a rich history and diverse cultures. I'm really looking forward to the interaction between civilizations and watching their rise and fall. While I don't mind a game like DoW, I think we've already summed up why that might not be a fit for this particular setup. For me, DoW seems more limited to the creation of a continent although that could just be because that's how we've played it in the past.

As for needing points for a turn, I don't think that's required. I'm pretty sure we all have a good understanding of our 'scope' on what we can change in a given time period. This game is going to center around collaboration and working together and I think we're all in a good position to call someone out if they're overstepping their bounds (in a nice and productive way). Any disagreement can be voted on by the group with a simple majority to decide the matter. We've already been doing that informally with the ground rules, so I don't see why we can't continue it into the game.

However, we might need to have a more concrete system around conflicts between cultures/civilizations. That's an integral part of history and I think there are many examples were chance plays a large role in the outcome of a conflict. It would also be nice to have a more concrete system since I doubt everyone is going to be completely open to having their creation conquered by the neighboring people, especially if said people are prone to scorched earth policies. I don't necessarily have a good suggestion right now, but I'll try to think of something. Unless we want to approach it differently?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 12, 2016, 11:13:51 pm
I imagined it as the next PCP. So, "collaborating to write a history of an alternate earth" is what I envisioned.

Can I have an island full of Moas and other extinct animals?

I would say, any organism that went extinct because of humans could exist at the start of the game. Who knows what could go extinct on our world?

What about animals that humans lived along side but went exist during the last ice age? Such as the various Megafauna of the Americas and Australia.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 12, 2016, 11:22:12 pm
However, we might need to have a more concrete system around conflicts between cultures/civilizations. That's an integral part of history and I think there are many examples were chance plays a large role in the outcome of a conflict. It would also be nice to have a more concrete system since I doubt everyone is going to be completely open to having their creation conquered by the neighboring people, especially if said people are prone to scorched earth policies. I don't necessarily have a good suggestion right now, but I'll try to think of something. Unless we want to approach it differently?

I see couple ways ...

1. Everything is collaborative and no one really can claim one culture over another.

2. People can design specific cultures but they have specific rules for war to make it fair.

3. People can start out with one culture but then have to swap cultures in later eras. Thus everyone eventually has a hand in everyone else culture. And thus everyone is both invested and not invested if a culture dies. This method is how Sagan 4 works where you design a species and even lineages of species but you cannot get too attached to one species. Likewise lineages almost never completely die out or if they do you still have influence over the path of another linage.

In short I think the key to this is that everyone that contributes gets to feel like their part is part of the world and thus we all get the feeling and pride of this project. Because I think we can agree this is not a project about what civ will "win" but to make the best most interesting world we can. And encourage each other when they have good ideas or good contributions to the project.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 13, 2016, 06:16:34 am
Yeah that sounds good. I like the third option you laid out, Hydro.

Maybe even just swap cultures whenever we feel like. Maybe someone wants to try something else? "Hey Jos, wanna switch for a little?"
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Brandonazz on December 13, 2016, 10:58:46 am
Dibs on second turn at Ovi's culture start.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 13, 2016, 02:55:49 pm
Heeeee. Gonna be jelly you didn't pick me.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Brandonazz on December 13, 2016, 03:09:02 pm
Just be like me and accept that we will never be as good as Ovi at worldbuilding.

Go out-RP him instead.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Inkling on December 13, 2016, 03:39:28 pm
I think we should take ownership of cultures or villages or whatever level we're at for at least some period of time.  If it's purely collaborative it might not be enough of a game to keep our attention.

There's some brainstorming going on on steam, and I like the idea of having some rules to force us to change things up from the world as it is.  One idea is to not use common domesticated animals.  Which might have been why I mentioned moas, anyway...
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on December 13, 2016, 03:39:49 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/9je8b8M.png)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 13, 2016, 04:06:50 pm
Am okay with things like flying mounts. That's like, about as far as I'd be willing to go with most stuff though.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on December 13, 2016, 04:24:05 pm
Moas are flightless though...

Also I don't think it would be biologically possible given an earth-like evolutionary timeline for a flying animal strong enough to support a human being for any length of time.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 13, 2016, 04:35:02 pm
Moas are flightless though...

I don't even know what you're talking about. I was just saying I'm okay with flying mounts.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 13, 2016, 04:40:20 pm
What about animals that humans lived along side but went exist during the last ice age? Such as the various Megafauna of the Americas and Australia.

Mammoths and Megalania and Macrauchenia, oh my!

Really, though, as cool as some of these animals were, I'd rather this be more like a detailed history and less like Dinotopia.

There's some brainstorming going on on steam, and I like the idea of having some rules to force us to change things up from the world as it is.  One idea is to not use common domesticated animals.  Which might have been why I mentioned moas, anyway...

I took this route during PCP2 (http://pcp4unme.freesmfhosting.com/index.php/topic,15.0.html)! As long as it's a plausible domestication, I see no reason it can't be different. It's a great way to add a unique feel and still keep it within an Earth-analog setting.

Edit: Also, still working on the map!
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Brandonazz on December 13, 2016, 05:16:26 pm
Edit: Also, still working on the map!

Better be.

*cracks whip*
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 13, 2016, 06:01:33 pm
Really, though, as cool as some of these animals were, I'd rather this be more like a detailed history and less like Dinotopia.

While Dinotopia is cool I am looking more for unique animals to build cultures around.

Such as this ...

Megatherium Rider (with pet condors)
http://rodrigo-vega.deviantart.com/art/Centralia-s-emperor-87987882
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 13, 2016, 06:42:50 pm
I was thinking about the biomes on Earth and how many species cross over. I tried to account for the isolation of the 3 main areas on Earth; Africa/Europe/Asia, North/South America and Australia.

(http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h202/Hydromancerx/regions_zpsnakfqaeb.png)

Red = North America
Orange = South America
Yellow = Africa
Green = Eurasia
Blue = Australia
Purple = Hawaii

I could not really fit in Antarctica so maybe its part of Australia or South America. Note some of the islands can become like Madagascar or the Galapagos.

I also think we should have each of the biomes fit into a 3 tiered system. At the bottom of the tier is the Earth counterpart biome. Which i show above with those regions. Next are Ice Age species from those specific regions. Such as Giant Wombats in the Australian region. And the 3rd tier are unique species made just for our planet. Based about how the different biomes connect to each other.

What do you guys think?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Brandonazz on December 13, 2016, 08:57:44 pm
I think you nailed the distribution of landmasses relative to levels of isolation of animal communities.

I think adding biomes for specific species isn't necessary for the game, but would be more like a flavor thing done for depth.

It'd be simpler for us to decide on what unusual species are allowed and just use them when appropriate in the course of play.

Maybe we should just approve every species that existed within 200,000 years (time since first modern humans) and any fictional species on a species-by-species basis.


Whichever of us is the biggest giant sloth fan shouldn't have to ditch their geographical site of choice just to get their megafauna fix.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Inkling on December 13, 2016, 09:24:23 pm
I agree.  I don't think we should get too hung up on recreating exact copies of ecosystems.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 14, 2016, 08:45:23 am
I don't even know what moa is.

That biome thing looks cool, Hydro. But let's wait and see what the mountain ranges look like. That could end up changing biome location.

As for requiring changes to traditional earth may-mays, I think a lot of this should come up organically. I suspect that once we start making the basics (and we should keep the basics basic for the sake of having a solid foundation - made-up birds like moas can come a step later) and once we launch a few "miracle/happening/mystery" events that change the world around us, paths forward toward what a lot of you are asking for will become more concrete.

A cart and horse situation, as it were. Let's not launch something too soon if a better introduction can be naturally created through gameplay.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Inkling on December 14, 2016, 03:16:41 pm
I don't even know what moa is.

...made-up birds like moas can come a step later

Third grade me would really want to fight you right now.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 14, 2016, 03:24:54 pm
Well its not just domestication its also for hunting. Like how hard is it to hunt their prey? is it like Plains Indians with the Bison? Hunting wild boars in Europe? Seal Hunters of the Arctic? Also animals might have valuable horns, tusks, antlers, etc that that culture might prize.

Will a culture focus around one animal? Or will there be folklore around many different animals. What kind of traits will they apply to those animals (ex. Wise Owl)?

Are soe animals prized for their eggs, or venom/poison, pelts/fur, etc. Are they a pest? Are they an indicator of a seasonal change? So much can be done in this area of human culture.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 14, 2016, 03:30:22 pm
Indeed. All of that detail will (and should) come out through our descriptions. We might even inadvertently create systems. And this is where the collaboration is fun, too. If you see an unbalanced ecosystem, maybe you add something.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 14, 2016, 05:52:07 pm
When in human evolution will we be starting? Australopithecus? Homo Hablisis? Homo Erectus? Homo Sapiens? Some bare milestones from each ...

Australopithecus
Eats mostly a vegetarian diet along with small bugs. Tools around the same level as chimps. No stone tools yet.

Homo Habilis
First stone tools. Now eating carrion from other animals kills. Using the stone tools to cut the meat. No fire yet.

Homo Erectus
First fire and cooking. More advanced stone tools. First spears and clothing. First primitive shelters.

Homo Sapiens (Prehistoric)
Explosion of culture such as graves, carved figurines. Throwing spears for better hunting. Trade and better shelters.

Homo Sapiens (Stone Age)
Taming wolves, fishing, tents, food preservation, pottery, baskets, etc.

In short things get very complex fast. Even before we reach Homo Sapiens.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 14, 2016, 06:31:44 pm
I say we start here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatomically_modern_human), with a single origin point and have humans spread out into the world in much the same way the they did on Earth.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 14, 2016, 06:45:48 pm
Aw man we have to play as Thai people? Fine. :P
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 14, 2016, 06:49:40 pm
I say we start here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatomically_modern_human), with a single origin point and have humans spread out into the world in much the same way the they did on Earth.

Ok then that means our people start at my 4th example. So things like Fire, Clothing, Shelters, Stone Tools, Spears, Graves, Spirituality etc are all a given. Sounds good.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 14, 2016, 09:25:17 pm
Yeah this is about what I hoped for. This will get us right into the game and the humans have just enough to start creating permanent settlements. Or maybe we start them off as roamers for a few turns before basic farming is mastered? Might lead to some interesting and potentially far-reaching events.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 15, 2016, 05:16:45 am
In Earth history there is a quite a bit of time between Anatomically Modern Humans and the beginning of Agriculture.

https://schoolsprehistory.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/timeline-starting-40kya1.jpg

Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 15, 2016, 05:49:44 am
Yeah, that's why we'd play a few turns as these nomads first. Get some wandering in the books, a few pre-settlement events to stain their psyche for ten thousand years. Then they build farms and houses.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 15, 2016, 04:42:25 pm
Just for reference, there is about 180,000 years between the start of our project (assuming we start with 200,000ya) until the first permanent settlements start to form. The earliest known settlement on Earth, for instance, was from 17,000 BC. Humans had spread nearly everywhere by 14,000 years ago. thus it took humans about 186,000 years to spread over the planet.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 16, 2016, 12:46:40 am
Cool, should be fun to nomad around for a little bit.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Brandonazz on December 18, 2016, 11:56:35 am
Ovi, if you've finished the part of the map that is the origin of the human species, you should post it.

We can start RPing about the diaspora and the impact on our psyche of the environment they evolved in.

E.g. We like paintings of open plains (visibility) adjacent with trees & wildlife (food, protection) and flowing water (primary water source).

(http://i.imgur.com/Sxjwvts.jpg)

If the original human population started in the jungle, we'd probably like landscapes with fewer mountains, more varied colors than green and blue, and tree canopies.

If we evolved near the arctic then we'd like natural shelters like caves, frozen-over-rivers and -lakes, and swaths of migratory fauna.



It's no clash of civilizations, but it'll give us something to do until we can start developing settlements.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Josasa on December 18, 2016, 12:02:46 pm
That's actually a good point. Do we know where we're starting humanity? I think this is something that we could decide on as a group rather than just having one person pick it out.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 18, 2016, 12:04:56 pm
I should be finished with the geological detail map today! I'm working on it right now!
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Brandonazz on December 18, 2016, 12:18:14 pm
Don't worry guys, I'm periodically harassing him just to be sure.

EDIT: The masochist mapmaker is doing it pixel by pixel. He's not human.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 18, 2016, 08:18:04 pm
Alright, here you go!

http://imgur.com/a/dCHAS (http://imgur.com/a/dCHAS)

This first map shows the plate boundaries and the fault types. Red = convergent, blue = transverse, green = divergent. The second map is just the raw elevation. On land, the contours are each 1,000m in elevation. The highest elevations on the map top 9,000m. This map also shows continental shelves and trenches. Since they aren't as important for the game, they are not as detailed. I didn't add any below sea level areas because that's partially affected by the biomes, though I do have a layer in the file to add them if needed.

https://gofile.io/?c=EvTOcS (https://gofile.io/?c=EvTOcS)

And that's the download for the GIMP file should you want to look at all the layers and what not.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Brandonazz on December 18, 2016, 08:19:50 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/m1xmDyF.jpg)

My god, it's full of topographical features.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Slinky on December 18, 2016, 08:35:51 pm
looks great
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 18, 2016, 09:53:26 pm
Do we know where we're starting humanity?

(http://i.imgur.com/lWQND4t.png)

I like this spot for a start for a few reasons. It will allow us a large, but contained place to ease into the game. Plus, our people will have to advance some technologies to a certain degree before they're really off and rolling on the other landmasses, though that southern strait should be easy to pass early. Will give us a bit of a pace.

Ovi, the map looks excellent. :)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Slinky on December 18, 2016, 10:05:12 pm
I agree with Pat so as to create the appearance of consensus so we can start playing already.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Inkling on December 18, 2016, 10:10:15 pm
Yeah, looks like a good option for spreading to the most landmasses in the quickest time.  So how big would that starting island/continent be?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Slinky on December 18, 2016, 10:12:15 pm
12 gajillion square kilogigameters
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Brandonazz on December 18, 2016, 10:19:46 pm
Half an Australia give or take a Greenland.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Brandonazz on December 18, 2016, 10:41:05 pm
I agree with Pat so as to create the appearance of consensus so we can start playing already.

Not verbatim you fool!
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on December 19, 2016, 01:04:34 am
12 gajillion square kilogigameters

Agreed. The planet is the size of several large nebulas.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 19, 2016, 05:44:16 am
I guess people really wanna start playing. :3

Thanks for sticking with it through the process, guys.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Brandonazz on December 19, 2016, 08:11:26 am
(http://i.imgur.com/D9fGrGw.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/PPg9kjE.png)

I felt like this was necessary.

Entire world map comparison: http://imgur.com/a/2gObj

(http://i.imgur.com/ZRhcgVU.png)

Without borders. Use this as a sketchpad. We could use it as the map at the start and just stitch it back in, too.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Brandonazz on December 19, 2016, 09:32:37 am
(http://i.imgur.com/ft2ZgLH.png)

I did a very rough draft of how I expect the climate would be based on 1) large ocean to the east 2) equatorial location 3) westerly prevailing warm winds (see 1 and 2 (http://i.imgur.com/kahvEv0.jpg))

I used northern South America and Southeast Asia as my main points of comparison (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/Vegetation.png).
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 19, 2016, 09:39:29 am
Oh right! I guess one of the reasons we put in all the mountains was so we could determine the winds and therefore where vegetation and deserts are located.

We can do that now!
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: emmet on December 19, 2016, 09:45:23 am
Figured I'd share some resources I have from when I was writing a map generator:

How to Design Your Climates (https://imgur.com/gallery/zTR3A/)

Creating a Realistic World Map: Currents, Precipitation, and Climate (http://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/1353/creating-a-realistic-world-map-currents-precipitation-and-climate)

The Climate Cookbook (http://web.archive.org/web/20130619132254/http://jc.tech-galaxy.com/bricka/climate_cookbook.html)

Global Scale Circulation of the Atmosphere (http://web.archive.org/web/20130606044043/http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/7p.html)

Map of Human Migration (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/Map-of-human-migrations.jpg)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 19, 2016, 02:50:17 pm
Nice finds!  ;D

@Brandonazz

That looks really good!

Also a subtropical dry forest is perfect for where humans can evolve in.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 19, 2016, 03:05:21 pm
(http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h202/Hydromancerx/regions_zpsnakfqaeb.png)

Red = North America
Orange = South America
Yellow = Africa
Green = Eurasia
Blue = Australia
Purple = Hawaii

So looks like we are starting in "Asia" somewhere. I personally think the island to the NW of the starting location should have ecosystems similar to India. However based on Brandonazz' biome map. Perhaps we should have the starting location be more like India. It sure has the same biome types.

Here are my ideas for the starter island ...

Base Animals

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-XSRva-vq8qs/Vg1Bsn0Jk4I/AAAAAAAAG-I/RumRqlharbg/s1600/india%2Bweb%2Blow%2Brgb.jpg)
Wildlife of India
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wildlife_of_India

Additional Ice Age Animals

(https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-505b33d6a9e96e5cf8a729aafb27c1d0-c?convert_to_webp=true)
Straight Tusked Elephant
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palaeoloxodon_namadicus

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/63/29/2b/63292be860a7396aa4df3796bb1f2005.jpg)
Gigantopithecus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigantopithecus

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/88/b0/15/88b015c719707140eda7062dc84a99e3.jpg)
Sivatherium giganteum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sivatherium

(http://pre03.deviantart.net/ed06/th/pre/f/2014/178/4/c/megantereon_whitei_by_viergacht-d7o70lv.png)
Megantereon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megantereon
I like this coat (http://img01.deviantart.net/b371/i/2015/086/e/d/megantereon_5_v11_mod_2_by_peterhutzler-d8ncc21.jpg).

More examples of Ice Age Indian Animals ....
https://www.quora.com/How-was-Indian-Sub-continent-during-Ice-age-Was-it-covered-with-ice

Plausible Made Up Species

(http://img02.deviantart.net/6fe9/i/2012/081/c/9/unicorn_by_hyrotrioskjan-d4tl5sr.jpg)
Unicorn
http://hyrotrioskjan.deviantart.com/art/Unicorn-291560859

Buru
http://hyrotrioskjan.deviantart.com/art/Buru-292960351
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 19, 2016, 03:50:00 pm
First of all, I don't think we should pick the continental fauna equivalency regions until the biome map is completely filled out. Same goes with trying to pick a spot to start and trying to pick animals. I know we are all excited, but let's not put the cart before the horse.

Side note, do my maps seen fuzzy to anyone else? Am I exporting it out of GIMP wrong? I exported it as a .png, so I would think they'd be sharp and clean. Any help in that area would be helpful.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 19, 2016, 04:12:27 pm
I also have an idea for the reason why Humans are not starting in the Africa part of the map. We could say that Homo Erectus evolved there but then spread out eastward across the landmasses and to our starter island. And then Homo Sapiens then evolved there on the starter island.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 19, 2016, 04:37:00 pm
Maps look fine for me, Ovi. Zooming in on the downloaded GIMP file, there doesn't seem to be any blending along boundaries.

Now then, I agree with not putting the cart in front of a horse. That said, we seem to have decent agreement on where humanity will be starting and I'm not just saying that because people agreed with my idea. I suggest we stick with that one since there is general agreement.

I do think we need to hold up on biomes and fauna stuff for just a moment more. Not much longer! But a little more, please! Just want to reiterate that now we can do a proper simulation/explanation of wind currents. Since so much time was spent making the mountains realistic, we should carry that momentum over to biomes and whatnot. Let's start to establish our global currents. Brandon was kind enough to take the lead on this particular portion, so perhaps it would be prudent to use what Brandon has established as the template for how everything else around it behaves.

(http://i.imgur.com/ft2ZgLH.png)

I did a very rough draft of how I expect the climate would be based on 1) large ocean to the east 2) equatorial location 3) westerly prevailing warm winds (see 1 and 2 (http://i.imgur.com/kahvEv0.jpg))

I used northern South America and Southeast Asia as my main points of comparison (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/Vegetation.png).

Assuming this is about accurate (and if there are egregious errors on this map, we can discuss and fix that) we should be able to extrapolate out the currents around this region and beyond.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 19, 2016, 04:41:51 pm
TO add to that, don't forget that the axial tilt is identical to Earth's! (Exact measurement: 23.4392811į) But obviously you can round to the nearest pixel. :P
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 19, 2016, 05:44:12 pm
Took a rough swing at currents based on vent location.

(http://i.imgur.com/5PVQvX0.png)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 19, 2016, 05:52:17 pm
Too much cold currents in the equatorial regions.

Also what was wrong with mine. It seems to be just like the stuff Brandonzz posted.

(http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h202/Hydromancerx/seacurrents_zpsu8qznrhu.png)
Blue = Cold Current
Pink = Warm Current

Your middle ocean has too much cold water. Why would it have cool water at the equator? I can understand your vent over in the SW corner heating up the cold currents but not cold currents at the equator.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 19, 2016, 05:54:57 pm
Nothing, I'm trying to spur discussion. :)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 19, 2016, 06:13:48 pm
(https://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/sage/oceanography/lesson3/images/ocean_currents2.jpg)

You can see how much warm currents there are at the equator. And if there is cold currents its because its being pushed there fro one of the poles. Such as the western coasts of North and South America or western Africa.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 19, 2016, 06:20:35 pm
The only thing wrong with yours, Hydro, is the incorrect axial tilt.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 19, 2016, 06:33:11 pm
Hydro, can you fix the axial tilt issue (I don't know what that is, I'm trusting Ovi here) because if so I don't see why we can't use your map. :D

Do you think you'd be able to add something like a "jet stream" as well? Maybe in a separate, somewhat see-through color?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 19, 2016, 06:53:57 pm
A planet with the same axial tilt as Earth would have circles of latitude in these locations:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World_map_with_major_latitude_circles.svg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World_map_with_major_latitude_circles.svg)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Brandonazz on December 19, 2016, 07:05:19 pm
I honestly didn't see anything wrong with Hydro's. Maybe one of Tesla's links will make it agreeable to you nerds.

In fact, looking at it in retrospect, I more or less did use the same currents as him in making the biomes.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 19, 2016, 07:09:03 pm
It's literally just the circles of latitude that I have an issue with:

(http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h202/Hydromancerx/seacurrents_zpsu8qznrhu.png)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b9/World_map_with_major_latitude_circles.svg/800px-World_map_with_major_latitude_circles.svg.png)

The black lines in Hydro's vs the Red lines on the Earth map.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 19, 2016, 07:10:01 pm
Riiiight. Nah I get you, Ovi. That makes sense.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Brandonazz on December 19, 2016, 07:11:38 pm
I also didn't pick up on that...
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 19, 2016, 07:13:57 pm
Right, so we'll go with Hydro's currents map with Ovi's fixes on the circles. That issue is more or less closed, I don't think Hydro is gonna have a huge issue with the small change. But if you do, Hydro, let us know.

What's next?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 19, 2016, 08:35:54 pm
The only thing wrong with yours, Hydro, is the incorrect axial tilt.

Tilt or not the equator is still the equator. Having cold current at the equator is not right.

Hydro, can you fix the axial tilt issue (I don't know what that is, I'm trusting Ovi here) because if so I don't see why we can't use your map. :D

Do you think you'd be able to add something like a "jet stream" as well? Maybe in a separate, somewhat see-through color?

My currents are still generally accurate. The main thing I base them on is the equator and the poles. The rest of the lines are only important for biome placement. And since I did not place biomes they should be ok.

Just move the latitude lines and maybe  lines and maybe make the north and south polar currents shorter.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 19, 2016, 08:46:40 pm
Alright, here you go!

http://imgur.com/a/dCHAS (http://imgur.com/a/dCHAS)

This first map shows the plate boundaries and the fault types. Red = convergent, blue = transverse, green = divergent. The second map is just the raw elevation. On land, the contours are each 1,000m in elevation. The highest elevations on the map top 9,000m. This map also shows continental shelves and trenches. Since they aren't as important for the game, they are not as detailed. I didn't add any below sea level areas because that's partially affected by the biomes, though I do have a layer in the file to add them if needed.

https://gofile.io/?c=EvTOcS (https://gofile.io/?c=EvTOcS)

And that's the download for the GIMP file should you want to look at all the layers and what not.

I tried to make this into a grayscale map for SC4 but its totally opposite. Too bad. It would have made for an awesome Sim City 4 regional map.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 22, 2016, 08:48:47 pm
Right, am working on it. Have some time.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 22, 2016, 10:55:13 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/IEQjlaf.png)

How does this look? Any errors? I've got all the layers and whatnot, so it's easy to update and fix.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 23, 2016, 06:32:08 am
Making some changes to it.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 23, 2016, 06:58:15 am
Imgur is compressing this now. Not sure why. I guess it doesn't like all the bandwidth I'm sucking up. :P

(http://i.imgur.com/b3Hj3gx.jpg)

I have the full-res version with layers here. Can upload. Fixed a few things.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 23, 2016, 02:22:54 pm
Those currents looks good. I approve!
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: emmet on December 23, 2016, 09:27:10 pm
ye
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 24, 2016, 05:41:49 pm
Cool beans! Brandon, did any of the changes I made mess with your biome map as far as you can tell?

If not, I guess we can start bioming the world based on what you've already established. I know a few folks want to get right into the game on this island area we are using as the start; however, I also know that some would prefer to biome the whole planet before we get to doing anything with civs or tribes.

What do you want? Can we handle "bioming" our starting point and expanding that out as the people also move? Or do we want to establish all biomes ahead of time? I don't care either way.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 24, 2016, 06:39:40 pm
My vote is definitely biome all the things before we start. Better to have all the background stuff finished ahead of time so we don't have to stop to catch up every time we move somewhere new.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 24, 2016, 06:43:41 pm
Seems logical to me. Having other parts of the world biomed would also allow us to be able to have and justify global events that occur in places far away from the base of humanity.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 25, 2016, 06:38:36 pm
Oh also, rivers!?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 26, 2016, 03:36:50 am
Most rivers will link the mountains t the sea. In Sagan 4 I just made rivers based on the peaks I had. However real life is much more complex than that.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 26, 2016, 08:16:43 am
Alrighty, so I guess we can establish some main rivers in each area and branch off smaller tributaries and whatnot as needed for lore.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 26, 2016, 02:31:39 pm
Once we finish up the biomes, I'd be happy to add in major rivers using the elevation data.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Brandonazz on December 27, 2016, 04:38:47 pm
In a mostly flat region, rivers are the most defining geographical barrier. If we're starting on an equatorial island continent, I think we need them.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 27, 2016, 04:46:27 pm
Of course we do! But I don't want to add them in until we define where all the biomes are. Is somebody working on that, by the way?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Brandonazz on December 27, 2016, 04:54:05 pm
Pat is, I think? I'll do it if asked, but I'm under in the impression that he wants to take care of it.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 27, 2016, 08:45:41 pm
We should each take a region so everyone has something to do. A rough enough sketch will be good even if all our styles aren't quite the same.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 29, 2016, 05:47:45 pm
I posted the method on how to make biomes the Sagan 4 way. Not sure how they are made using real life biomes. :/
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on December 29, 2016, 09:03:01 pm
We just follow the winds!

Mountains will force warm, moist ocean air to rise and therefore release its water. So unless there is also warm air coming from the sea on the other side, you can expect deserts. At least I think that is how it works basically.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 30, 2016, 02:21:25 pm
We just follow the winds!

Mountains will force warm, moist ocean air to rise and therefore release its water. So unless there is also warm air coming from the sea on the other side, you can expect deserts. At least I think that is how it works basically.

Naw those are easy its the other specific biomes I am unsure of.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on December 30, 2016, 03:00:37 pm
All the informations! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Biomes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Biomes)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 31, 2016, 02:12:34 pm
Well the Sagan 4 way is like this ...

Dry to Wet
 Desert -> Grassland -> Scubland -> Woodland -> Rainforest -> Wetland


Tropical
Dune -> Savanna -> Tropical Scrubalnd -> Tropical Woodland -> Tropical Rianforest -> Swamp

Temperate
Desert -> Plains -> Scrubland -> Temperate Woodland -> Temperate Rainforest -> Marsh

Polar
Tundra -> Polar Scrub -> Taiga -> Bog

Mountain
High Desert -> High Grassland -> Rocky -> Boreal -> Alpine -> Moor

So yeah I am not sure how RL translates.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on January 05, 2017, 09:59:17 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/jVpPROw.png)

TEST
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Brandonazz on January 05, 2017, 10:57:57 pm
Mmmm, rivers.

You're gonna want to remove the 4 way intersection, though.
It kinda implies one of the rivers flows backward.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on January 06, 2017, 02:33:26 am
Looks dope. Agree with Brandon.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on January 06, 2017, 08:19:40 am
Which 4-way intersection? I don't see any.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on January 06, 2017, 08:22:15 am
It's not exactly a 4-way but two of the tributaries are very close and they're feeding into the river in different directions which makes it hard to imagine a topology which would result in that.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on January 06, 2017, 08:26:16 am
I think each pixel is a kilometer, so there should be plenty of room to account for it.

If it is really that big a problem, I can move it.

Friendly reminder that the software we use to edit this map is free for anyone to use and our resources are free and easily available: https://www.gimp.org/
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on January 06, 2017, 08:36:04 am
Given the comparisons with our planet posted previously I think it's more like 2 pixels to a kilometer, but I take your point.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on January 07, 2017, 06:59:18 am
I will be back in roughly 30 minutes to an hour. Gonna do some work on the map. Admittedly I'm not sure how much I can get done this morning, but if you wanna chime in or even help out, find me on Steam or however else you go about contacting me. Always love to bounce ideas off of people and I am desperate for extra eyes so everything doesn't get blamed on me after you all hate it. :3
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on January 07, 2017, 09:05:51 am
Moved the river.

(http://i.imgur.com/eWht87k.png)

How do?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Inkling on January 07, 2017, 09:49:38 pm
So anything else we should be working on right now?  Planning or anything?  The only ideas I have so far are for tribal cultural stuff and animal domestication.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on January 08, 2017, 08:21:12 am
I hope we end up with a landmass like this:

(http://i.imgur.com/Ao33Zah.png)

What could go wrong?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on January 08, 2017, 11:49:23 am
The new map looks good!
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Inkling on January 08, 2017, 12:01:31 pm
Dibs on Kurfurstentum Hessen.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on January 09, 2017, 02:23:39 pm
Just letting you know that all your rivers are backwards and will have to be redone. I can explain in a much detail as you want as to why. if desired.

Sorry for not saying anything earlier, but I was away all weekend, so I couldn't be here until now.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on January 09, 2017, 06:04:29 pm
Nah that's cool. Explain why though.

I thought I did everything right with the spin and the equator and whatnot. But doing everything backwards is a very common mistake I make, so I'm not surprised I messed it up that way. :-[
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Brandonazz on January 10, 2017, 08:40:20 am
I'm guessing it's because rivers branch out away from their mouths and converge downstream, while some of these rivers have one tributary with multiple estuaries.

(http://static.digg.com/images/c8512d4d97384cecba6dfe703f71067a_5ece2a5bb1a84fc1be76de893917ae21_1_post.jpeg)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on January 10, 2017, 03:05:12 pm
Now that's a cool map!
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on January 10, 2017, 05:29:05 pm
Yes, rivers nearly always converge as they flow toward their destination, not diverge, as you can see in that wonderful map Brandon posted. Think about it like this: if a river splits than one split is going to inevitably flow faster than the other. Over time, erosion will create a positive feedback loop that causes a higher and higher percentage of the flow to favor one split over the other, eventually ceasing to flow in the other direction entirely. One notable exception are river deltas. But River deltas are constantly changing do to their flat, sediment-rich topology.

That make sense?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on January 21, 2017, 07:02:58 am
(http://i.imgur.com/xM3H19r.png)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on January 21, 2017, 07:48:09 am
Hmm, looking at the biome map closer, it seems the "desert" areas are exactly where the elevation changes to 1,000m and above. Also, it seems this region is oright on the equator, which makes it less likely to have a desert anyway. Here's a detailed article on how and where deserts form: https://www.quora.com/Why-are-most-deserts-located-away-from-the-equator (https://www.quora.com/Why-are-most-deserts-located-away-from-the-equator). There is a great image about halfway through the article showing deserts versus the circles of latitude.

As for the rivers, they look much better! The only things off now is having more than one river drain the same lake (think of the lake as an extension of the river). And because of the aforementioned desert thingy, all the rivers start in the desert, which of course makes no sense, but I think that's the fault of the biome map.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on January 21, 2017, 08:02:02 am
Oh, that's desert? I thought those jaggedy things were mountains.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on January 21, 2017, 08:21:08 am
Maybe I misinterpreted the color. If that's the case then the probably shouldn't show up on the biome map at all.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on January 21, 2017, 12:15:59 pm
Yeah those are mountains or at least the only available regions of higher elevation on this landmass. I didn't turn that layer off so that I had something to work with as a base.

They told me a lot of rivers started at higher elevations in mountains, so I made a lot of the rivers start there. The explicit details of the source and its location within the mountains is workable, I figured we can hit that stuff with local maps and then reintroduce that to the final map later on.

Will fix up the issues with the lakes ASAP.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on January 21, 2017, 01:09:12 pm
Alrighty. Drafts are done, review is over, here's the first "final" map with rivers, biomes, and elevation.

(http://i.imgur.com/qB3SHAo.png)

Any major issues? Anything that is begging to be changed? Or is everything fine? Let us know in either direction so we know how to proceed.

Feel free to draw all over this image and send it back with your revisions. :D
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Brandonazz on January 21, 2017, 01:38:31 pm
I just left those elevated areas there for reference when I made my rough draft of the biomes. I didn't expect it to be used in a proper version.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on January 21, 2017, 02:32:29 pm
Fair enough! I just misinterpreted what was going on. :P
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on January 21, 2017, 02:47:45 pm
I'm guessing it's because rivers branch out away from their mouths and converge downstream, while some of these rivers have one tributary with multiple estuaries.

(http://static.digg.com/images/c8512d4d97384cecba6dfe703f71067a_5ece2a5bb1a84fc1be76de893917ae21_1_post.jpeg)

A found an African version!

(http://i.imgur.com/hGPr8vK.png)

The Sahara looks super funky because it's made up a bunch of endorheic basins.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on January 21, 2017, 03:23:41 pm
Hey "mountains" is almost its own biome anyway. :3
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on January 21, 2017, 09:04:02 pm
It can be, but those mountains are too short to make much difference on the equator.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on January 22, 2017, 03:10:59 am
Ha, look at Africa's absolutely pathetic number of rivers compared to North America. Yet another way America is great. USA! USA! USA!
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on January 22, 2017, 06:23:56 am
Anyone have ideas how the rest of the world should look? Rough sketches?

Also, I had pictured the 1000m areas of the map to be somewhat rocky terrain or something. I can change that.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on January 22, 2017, 07:17:08 am
Well, rocky terrain and jungles aren't mutually exclusive. But if you're thinking treeline, it's have to be much higher at the equator.

Just take a look at this chart for reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_line#Alpine_tree_lines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_line#Alpine_tree_lines)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Inkling on January 22, 2017, 12:25:19 pm
So when do we get to the stuff with people?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on January 23, 2017, 07:49:20 am
Well, rocky terrain and jungles aren't mutually exclusive. But if you're thinking treeline, it's have to be much higher at the equator.

Just take a look at this chart for reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_line#Alpine_tree_lines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_line#Alpine_tree_lines)

Not tree line, more like this:

(http://i.imgur.com/EeoHzkd.jpg)

I figured that they were higher up (at least 1000m up) and rocky, mossy, with some patches of tree cover and lots of plant life, but not the large canopy from below. And due to all the rocks and whatever geology is going on there, I figure that is also why water comes from there.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on January 23, 2017, 03:20:40 pm
It certainly could be! My point was only that it doesn't change what biome it is. I mean, these two images are both considered the same type of biome:

(http://i.imgur.com/Ppqo7JP.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/6yY6160.jpg)

Picture 1: Amazon
Picture 2: Isthmus of Kra
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on January 24, 2017, 10:30:30 am
So when do we get to the stuff with people?

As soon as I get some feedback on how the world should look with biomes. I'm not doing it all myself, it's not about that. We're supposed to do this together. Where do you guys want deserts? What kind of features do you want to see in places? How should we biome the rest of the world? Even a simple color-coded map in paint would be enough. I just don't want to be creating all this stuff myself or with Ovi in a Google chat. That's not in the spirit of the game.

Also anyone is welcome to do some mapping or lay down biomes on the big map if they'd like. Here is the current file: https://gofile.io/?c=1luSYl

All editing is done in GIMP, which is a free image editor: https://www.gimp.org/

If you do wish to edit, make sure you're using the layers we've created. If you are unsure about something, post here in the topic. :D
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Inkling on January 24, 2017, 02:36:34 pm
Oh, I thought all that was being generated based on winds and currents and stuff.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on January 24, 2017, 03:25:38 pm
I guess I should take a hint. :P
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Inkling on January 24, 2017, 03:37:36 pm
I just misunderstood.  I'll take a look at the map(s) and see if I have any suggestions.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on January 27, 2017, 07:59:15 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/R6olXCp.png)

Rough draft!

Also Brandon may or may not be coming to you with some activities. I dunno. :D


Zoom with minor edits:

(http://i.imgur.com/ocylosB.png)

Only peaks 6000m and higher are visible in mountain mode.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on January 27, 2017, 08:21:42 pm
I think the southern part of the continent needs to be colder.

(http://i.imgur.com/eWYdYhM.png)

As you can see, a good portion is inside the south pole circle of latitude. Compare this to Earth's Arctic Circle:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/31/Arctic_circle.svg/817px-Arctic_circle.svg.png)

I will give more detailed notes tomorrow.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on January 27, 2017, 10:22:10 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/b1cywKl.png)

Coming together... showing 4000m and up.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on January 27, 2017, 11:33:47 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/A5VbiWz.png)

The Mediterranean biome on either side of the landmass is neat; however, since that is equator level, should I have rainforest instead? Or is the temperate broadleaf forest good?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on January 28, 2017, 07:41:52 am
Maybe it would be easier if we showed the circles of latitude on the map for reference? Because we aren't seeing the whole map, it can be hard to know where the lines should be exactly.

And yeah, I think Mediterranean climates are all outside the tropics.

Compare these two images side by side (I'd say overlap them, but they are different map projections):

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/Vegetation.png (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/Vegetation.png)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b9/World_map_with_major_latitude_circles.svg (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b9/World_map_with_major_latitude_circles.svg)

Basically, use the circles of latitude as a guide to know which biomes happen at which latitudes.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on January 28, 2017, 02:32:53 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/E7vmuOZ.png)

Coming together! This is nearly final. Just checking for errors and whatnot, now. Will do a detail pass afterwards.

Current file: https://gofile.io/?c=pNllkB
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Inkling on January 28, 2017, 02:54:00 pm
Looking great to me!
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on January 28, 2017, 09:10:51 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/usups9Q.png)

More progress. Ovi is doing rivers as we speak!
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on January 28, 2017, 09:35:40 pm
As requested, the full map as-is:

(http://i.imgur.com/4U0QNGC.png)

I wanna tweak some of those monsoon forests on the west side.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on January 29, 2017, 11:41:18 am
UPDATE!

(http://i.imgur.com/3Ir9LtH.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/pjTgPTm.png)

First pass is basically done, save for a few islands here and there.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Inkling on January 29, 2017, 09:01:14 pm
So if the map is about all laid out, we should probably start talking about the tribe/civilization stuff, right?

So how are we going to do this?  I assume turns of some kind.  Not sure about rules or if we want to points or some kind of chance factored in or something like Dawn of Worlds.  Some of you actually paid attention to the rules of those games in the past and would have a better idea of what, if any parts of those would be good to carry over.  I think we should at the very least have some consensus for the scope of a turn or round.  It's going to be a problem if one person's idea of a turn is for their group to go from one village to two, and another person's idea is to go from stone tools to bronze age chariots or something.  How quickly do we want this to advance?

We've talked about maybe not having sole ownership of a civ, so it's not your baby that you don't want anything bad to happen to.  Maybe have one civ/tribe of a primary focus, and then seed others out?  We've got a big map, we need to be fruitful and multiply.  Even while our focus is on the starting island, maybe mention some group getting chased out and heading for sea, then later we find some developments already in progress when we expand our scope.  I dunno, just spitballing here.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on January 29, 2017, 09:04:14 pm
It's called 'snowballing', Ink.

But yeah I think you raise some good points. I especially like the idea of having groups fade out and then reappear again at a later date, presumably having advanced along their rumored path. I also like the talk of fashioning a system to make sure everyone's creativity reconciles to the time periods in which we are working. We'll definitely need to come up with something.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on January 30, 2017, 08:06:00 pm
And then there were rivers!

(http://i.imgur.com/vOyvge2.png)

And, because I'm me, I decided outline all their watersheds:

(http://i.imgur.com/XgaeoNM.png)

Obviously, there are other rivers, but this are the "major" ones.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on January 31, 2017, 06:55:19 am
Gorgeous. Will be going over it today and fine-tuning biomes.

Start getting your brains in gear, folks. Game start should be imminent. Hopefully by this weekend? Maybe?? :D
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on January 31, 2017, 04:05:28 pm
Oh! I almost forgot! We totally need to add reefs to the map!

Edit: Reef infos! (taken from here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coral_reef (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coral_reef))

"...shallow-water reefs form only in a zone extending from approximately 30į N to 30į S of the equator. Tropical corals do not grow at depths of over 50 meters (160 ft)."

And also:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/20_Grad_Isotherme.png)

"Boundary for 20 įC isotherms. Most corals live within this boundary. Note the cooler waters caused by upwelling on the southwest coast of Africa and off the coast of Peru. "
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on January 31, 2017, 11:00:28 pm
I'll put them by those islands near the trenches by our starting location. We can say that warm water from the trenches helps proteins grow or something. :U
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Slinky on February 01, 2017, 09:27:23 am
how could we forget reefs
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 01, 2017, 11:33:15 am
No reefs yet, but here's the unified map:

(http://i.imgur.com/FciRMWS.jpg)

And with watersheds:

(http://i.imgur.com/llsBEks.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/pjTgPTm.png)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Brandonazz on February 01, 2017, 01:40:42 pm
You should have reefs in the straits between the large land masses to impose a difficulty in reaching the opposite coasts by boat.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 01, 2017, 01:42:07 pm
As a point of discussion because your suggestion fits the bill: do we want to make decisions that may not necessarily be logical but would facilitate outcomes or gameplay?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on February 01, 2017, 01:45:42 pm
I don't really mind much either way but the world does have a notable lack of geographical barriers. The mountains tend to hug the coast rather than blocking travel across continents.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 01, 2017, 02:07:19 pm
Those dry regions may be explored to some extent, but the difference in biome should require any serious settlers to develop a fair number of technologies first. And if they were to decide to skip the drylands and sail somewhere better, they'll need to develop the ability to actually create a settlement and sustain it. Despite the lack of mountains, the early peoples won't exactly have free reign. But then again, early settlers on Earth had huge parts of the planet open to them before they could actually live in those places.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on February 01, 2017, 04:51:44 pm
Mountains didn't really stop people on Earth either. Humans were pretty much everywhere by 14,000 years ago.

Edit: Also! You guys should go over the map with a fine-tooth comb (not just me and Pat). The more eyes we have looking at the minute details the better chance we have of not having any mistakes! I had to fix several errors while making the rivers/watersheds.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 01, 2017, 04:58:53 pm
Here's another pass at it. Not much has changed, but the islands in the northeast have. Take a look!

(http://i.imgur.com/gibnZrg.jpg)

Edit: Also! You guys should go over the map with a fine-tooth comb (not just me and Pat). The more eyes we have looking at the minute details the better chance we have of not having any mistakes! I had to fix several errors while making the rivers/watersheds.

Just to back Ovi up, if you happen to notice any genuine errors or weird lines or wrong colors or whatever, take a screengrab of the area and/or leave a couple words to guide us toward the fix. Help us find it, is what I'm asking. Don't just make us look for it. There's a lot to cover and I know Ovi and I are at the point where we're so familiar with the map that stuff may slip by us. ;)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Brandonazz on February 10, 2017, 11:30:56 pm
I'd like to apologize for the current suspension of my activity on this project. I just got a job, and between the work and the sleep I need, my internet activity has cratered.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 11, 2017, 08:23:10 am
Oh awesome! Glad to hear it, man. :D

It's okay, the project can ebb and flow with activity. Long-term!
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Slinky on February 11, 2017, 10:38:24 am
Oh that reminds me, I know I've barely done anything but I think I should just officially say I'm out as well. Got a breakup going on, a lot of school projects, several commissions to work on, etc. But I know I wasn't really here anyway. Still gonna watch tho :)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on February 11, 2017, 05:35:01 pm
Got a breakup going on

You were too good for her anyway.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Slinky on February 11, 2017, 08:35:38 pm
Thanks man. Feels like I wasted two years of my life
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on February 12, 2017, 04:49:43 am
Lasted 22 months longer than my longest relationship :Y

Let me teach you how to be incredibly fussy so you never have to deal with a breakup.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 12, 2017, 07:45:19 am
Wasn't a waste of time, especially at your age.

Dating is how we figure out what we like and don't like in a partner and in ourselves. The process is necessary for getting it right.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Slinky on February 12, 2017, 09:59:45 am
Didn't intend to go into too much detail but I'm totally for that, I understand that it's a learning process and each time you understand more about yourself and what you're looking for. I mean, at the moment, for emotional reasons relating to breaches of trust in an allegedly monogamous relationship, my time feels wasted. But I'll get over it and everything, just working through it.

Anyway imaginary nerd planets amirite
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 12, 2017, 10:17:22 am
You're right, you'll get over it.

And find someone better, maybe with even more boobs!
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Slinky on February 12, 2017, 10:18:45 am
Like three even?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 12, 2017, 10:19:08 am
Hopefully!
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on February 12, 2017, 01:44:58 pm
(https://gifcept.com/tmpVSol.gif)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 13, 2017, 05:02:21 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/VZ0yre6.jpg)

Rough pass with reefage. They are light/neon blue.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 14, 2017, 10:16:31 pm
Right, well I'm filling in pixel-sized islands and then everything is done. So how about we just start playing? Some reefs may move but that's no big deal and otherwise I'm filling in tiny blocks a thousand miles away on the other side of the planet.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 15, 2017, 05:46:47 am
Well whatever, I collapsed the rest of the forum so I guess I'm only gonna be milling around here now for the game.

You guys want to start? Anyone have ideas how to? Plans? Whatever? I need some cues here. :3
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Inkling on February 15, 2017, 04:05:42 pm
So if the map is about all laid out, we should probably start talking about the tribe/civilization stuff, right?

So how are we going to do this?  I assume turns of some kind.  Not sure about rules or if we want to points or some kind of chance factored in or something like Dawn of Worlds.  Some of you actually paid attention to the rules of those games in the past and would have a better idea of what, if any parts of those would be good to carry over.  I think we should at the very least have some consensus for the scope of a turn or round.  It's going to be a problem if one person's idea of a turn is for their group to go from one village to two, and another person's idea is to go from stone tools to bronze age chariots or something.  How quickly do we want this to advance?

We've talked about maybe not having sole ownership of a civ, so it's not your baby that you don't want anything bad to happen to.  Maybe have one civ/tribe of a primary focus, and then seed others out?  We've got a big map, we need to be fruitful and multiply.  Even while our focus is on the starting island, maybe mention some group getting chased out and heading for sea, then later we find some developments already in progress when we expand our scope.  I dunno, just spitballing here.

I don't have anything beyond this.  I don't know how to do the rules stuff.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on February 15, 2017, 05:00:30 pm
I suggest we start with a "Dawn of Worlds" framework for rules and what not.

As for timelines, I say we start at the equivalent of ~200,000ya (beginning of the anatomically modern human) and go from there. Through time our primitive humans will slowly spread throughout the globe, splitting off into different races and very (very) slowly develop technology along the way. Whn we reach about the equivalent of about 17,000ya people can start to settle (i.e. live in non-temporary housing). A few thousand years later is when the domestications begin and the timescales will have to be zoomed in. I say either the point of settlements or the point of domestication should the the trigger to begin the next phase of our project.

I'm going to call the above suggestion "Phase II." (Phase I being the terraforming phase we are nearly finished with). As to what specifically happens in subsequent phases, I say we worry about that when we get closer to them.

As to how to use "Dawn of Worlds" for Phase II, I think someone more knowledgeable with the system will need to help us adapt it.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 15, 2017, 05:21:58 pm
That shouldn't be too hard. I imagine we're going to remove the point system and tweak a fair number of the options.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 16, 2017, 07:47:13 am
Out of curiosity, how long (in our time) do you expect we will spend before we get to the part of the game where humans develop the ability to settle?

Open-ended question for everyone!
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on February 16, 2017, 10:16:59 am
Not long. Really things only start getting interesting after people get village.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Inkling on February 16, 2017, 03:43:24 pm
Yeah, otherwise all we're doing is wandering around and throwing rocks at animals.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 16, 2017, 04:06:49 pm
Yeah, otherwise all we're doing is wandering around and throwing rocks at animals.

(http://i.imgur.com/QMFnCOh.gif)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on February 16, 2017, 05:03:18 pm
Also creating races!

(http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3295&d=1259938302)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on February 17, 2017, 12:52:46 am
Lets keep things simple

White people/Brown/Black/Irish/Other

Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 17, 2017, 09:19:33 am
Alright so let's start this rule set, then.

I don't think we need a point system, necessarily; but we do need turns. Maybe segments? For the sake of the example, I'm simplifying things.

What if... we have a goal to reach. The first turn of the game would be from a period of Year 0 to Year 10,000. Year 17,000 would be the earliest possible date to begin permanent settlement. Within our first turn can be any number of "segments", I was thinking five segments. And each of us can use those segments to create stuff within the time period of the first turn. This allows us each to have our own chance to lay down five bits of detail (or more if we want) to that span of time. We all have the same start date and end date to allow us to synchronize and move onto the next turn.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on February 17, 2017, 10:24:49 am
Ok, here's a crazy idea.

Rather than things turning totally eterministic because we already know how **** is going to turn out and just spreading people around the globe mechanically how about this:

Divide land sections into semi-arbitrary zones. Each turn we can move our dudes into a new zone and a dice is rolled, modified by the biome in that zone, to determine the "habitability" of that region. Our tribes could have some light "stats" which determine how adaptable they are to survival in various areas. Pat's segments or "clicks" or whatever can be spent either spreading dudes out from where they're already living or increase the population in an existing region. The higher the population the faster the people living in that region would git gud at technology, until eventually they git gud enough to develop pastoralism and agriculture and finally found the first city.

This is my general idea of how it could work. Obviously it would need nailing down into proper rules but I think it would simulate discovery and exploration and humans expanding to fill various niches pretty nicely.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 17, 2017, 09:18:51 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/KPHcrpB.jpg)

Let's do that. It'll be like Sengoku Rance! :D
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Flisch on February 18, 2017, 08:28:37 am
So, Ovi asked me to do some ecozone mapping onto the continents.

Here's three versions:

http://imgur.com/a/Od76U

Disclaimer: The regions simply represent the fauna and flora. A region called "East Coast" simply implies that it's the biota found on the east coast on real earth, even if it is located on the western end of the continent in PCP.

Some quick thoughts on the variations:

Alpha is relatively simple. I didn't try to map the zones too closely to the biomes, rather to the continents and how they connect. As you can see South America has a lot of Taiga and Africa has plenty of temperate woodlands. This is a simple setup, but can create bizarre situations going forward.

Bravo is a little bit more out there in terms of connectivity. Eurasia is split into three disconnected landmasses and Africa has a direct connection with North America, which is a tad strange, but shouldn't create too many issues. (Africa and North America share quite some fauna due to Asia).

Charlie is similar to Bravo in terms of me trying to focus on biome mapping rather than geographical mapping. For example, South America is bordering both Europe and Africa, a circumstance that is possibly the strangest of all the variations so far. Still I like it, because many biomes neatly map onto the ecozones. PCP has two large Taiga areas, which unfortunately are north and south, so I made the two real-life Taiga continents, Eurasia and North America, on opposing hemispheres. Mesoamerica stretches across the subtropical rim on the norther part of North America. One could imagine that a recently broken up landbridge formed between Amazonia and North America and allowed faunal interchange. Africa is really huge, but that's no problem as Africa is really big on real earth as well (it just looks small due to distortion). Also this setup allows me to have a neat transition between Arabia and India. This is by far my favourite, but you can decide which one you like best.

Also suggestions for improvements or alterations are welcome.

Also apologies for naming the British Isles 'England'. I hope there are no irish here. :P
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on February 18, 2017, 08:59:08 am
You put a lot of thought into this! First impressions (before reading descriptions) was for Alpha, but after reading the descriptions, Charlie has grown on me a lot.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 18, 2017, 09:28:18 am
Neat, I didn't even know Flisch was playing. Cool maps.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on February 18, 2017, 09:41:22 am
I brought it to his attention yesterday and he seemed interested in working on the biosphere equivalency zones, so I told him to go for it!
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Flisch on February 18, 2017, 09:51:38 am
I was blackmailed into it, really.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 18, 2017, 10:45:58 am
I like the first or third because North America is still the new world and it even has a cool Caribbean area! As well, the third also encapsulates a lot of what I was envisioning when I drew some of the biomes.

Also, the starting area will be like Southeast Asia, which I think is pretty cool and will let us explore a flora/fauna that most of us are not familiar with or native to.

Map three!
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on February 18, 2017, 11:06:46 am
I was blackmailed into it, really.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xG6vgzAswgE

The more I think about it, the more I like the third map, as well. Go ahead and put my vote down for map three.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 18, 2017, 11:39:33 am
Right then, to elaborate on Sam's idea.

I'm thinking something along the lines of Europa Universalis in terms of how many territories there will be. We're talking upwards of 100 or more? Maybe 200 or more? Are you guys cool with that? Or do you want a smaller/larger scope?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on February 18, 2017, 11:47:40 am
Yep. If we do that, please let me make the regions <.< >.> Not because of any other reason then to satisfy my raging cartophilia (screw you card collectors, I'm taking back that word).
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 18, 2017, 11:54:41 am
Yeah sure. Actually you might as well add a new layer now and start cutting it up.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 18, 2017, 12:11:38 pm
Writing down some thoughts as Ovi and I are chatting.

Using EUIV as a template, the map will be broken into areas. Now, EU breaks things down using a fair amount of historical context, as well as geography. We're only using geography, so we can start with a smaller number of territories. As we play and as some territories become prosperous, we can discuss splitting them up or further dividing regions to add more playable space. But I think we can agree that especially early on, we don't need a full compliment of 400 individual territories, most of which we'll never see.

Current map for those interested: https://gofile.io/?c=kXTL8V
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Flisch on February 18, 2017, 02:57:12 pm
By the way, should you guys decide on a version of mine, I can provide a more detailed map, showing localized ecozones, such as major river ecologies etc. Just let me know.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on February 18, 2017, 04:03:00 pm
Right then, to elaborate on Sam's idea.

I'm thinking something along the lines of Europa Universalis in terms of how many territories there will be. We're talking upwards of 100 or more? Maybe 200 or more? Are you guys cool with that? Or do you want a smaller/larger scope?

Should be fairly big regions at the start when we're just spreading monkeymen around. If we zoom in on a specific area to start doing more detailed stuff then smaller regions would make sense.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 19, 2017, 06:03:20 am
By the way, should you guys decide on a version of mine, I can provide a more detailed map, showing localized ecozones, such as major river ecologies etc. Just let me know.

It's looking like three, honestly.

Sam you have any thoughts on Flisch's maps?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on February 19, 2017, 10:51:45 am
I feel like 1 actually makes the most sense to me. Not overthinking here, going with my gut. I have the best intuition.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Inkling on February 19, 2017, 11:22:54 am
I'm fine with any of them.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Flisch on February 19, 2017, 01:24:18 pm
Since there have been some voted for Charlie already and because I have nothing better to do, I decided to do a more detailed map.

(http://i.imgur.com/qHmWEQN.png) (http://imgur.com/qHmWEQN)

You may notice that I actually moved Australia into the east and Amazonia onto the place where Australia used to be. The reason is while mapping out the details I noticed that having the Caucasus on its own remote island/continent makes no sense at all, so I did it like here. I also swapped the antarctic and arctic ecozones again, because I think having penguins in Africa is less weird than polar bears. (Infact, South Africa already has penguins.) Also, Canada has penguins now. Hooray.

Also I added a 1 pixel Christmas island, because I'm my own person and you can't tell me what to do.

Anyway, let me know if you like this one, if you want any changes, or if you decide to go with another version.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on February 19, 2017, 01:37:39 pm
You may notice a new lake in the Northwest of that map (labeled as Lake Baikal). The lake will be in the file that I using, once I finish with it.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 20, 2017, 07:56:02 am
Flisch this looks great! You've done an impressive job, thank you so much for the time you spent. :)

Also, totally cool with you adding an island. We'll uh... talk about that. :3
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 20, 2017, 08:02:54 am
Also, the island that has "california" as a label.

If it's anything like real-life California, it's going to be fought over by a lot of people. It will probably be one of the most fertile and economically viable pieces of land on our entire planet.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on February 20, 2017, 08:09:13 am
Yeah all you have to do is pump in billion of gallons of clean water from somewhere else >_______>
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 20, 2017, 08:12:54 am
Nah, they won't have that problem because under my rule, they won't be allowed to grow crops that upend the water table and otherwise act like a bunch of dorks that think the ride won't ever end. :D
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on February 20, 2017, 08:36:13 am
My army of dorks will seize your land and use it to grow watermelons and cucumbers.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 20, 2017, 09:04:36 am
YOU MONSTER!
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Flisch on February 20, 2017, 10:55:42 am
Flisch this looks great! You've done an impressive job, thank you so much for the time you spent. :)

Also, totally cool with you adding an island. We'll uh... talk about that. :3
I just realized it sounds like I actually added a landmass. That's not what I meant. I just made an existing island into Christmas Island, because we need red crab migrations. :V

And thanks!
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 20, 2017, 11:14:08 am
No hidden secret island?

LAME.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Flisch on February 20, 2017, 11:16:00 am
I made some minor changes. Nothing big, but it satisfies my perfectionist itch.

(http://i.imgur.com/FwOjbsV.png)

Changelog:
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on February 20, 2017, 04:56:10 pm
Just one tiny little error. Your map is missing the endorheic lake in Eastern "Sahara."

Edit: Also! I won't be done with my region map for a bit, but I plan to update the Google Earth file once I am. Which maps/layers would you guys like to see in it?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 20, 2017, 09:40:07 pm
The lines (the actual layer "lines") and maybe one with currents and one without currents.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Flisch on February 21, 2017, 10:52:54 am
I decided to go ahead and do a thing.

http://imgur.com/a/4oLOy

I assume this might become handy once we get to populate the world with humans. This way you can see what domesticable animals live where. It's not all livestock, it also contains animals like wolves and cats.

Another thing I want to mention is that it also features animals that haven't been domesticated in the real world or at least not fully. However all of the animals shown here should at least have the potential to be domesticated, so you can go wild when it comes to that. Individual comments are in the link itself.

I did map the locations onto the equivalent ecozones relatively closely (some liberties are made, but they're almost negligible). That however had the effect that often the ranges which are continous in the real world are broken up into three or four sections. This is especially noticeable with the wolf. Tell me if you want to keep it as is (Which means the ecozones stay intact and makes it easier to play this game without additional worldbuilding in an area most people aren't interested in.) or if I should try to make the areas more connected. For example, having the mouflon in either arabia or europe, not both. (This would be more realistic, but would also require figuring out the individual biomes.)

A similar thing with staple crops will follow.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on February 21, 2017, 02:39:41 pm
Cool! In the cases where one animal has two or more ranges that are really geographically seperated how do we explain how they got there? Clinging to driftwood?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on February 21, 2017, 05:06:17 pm
We could always just have different subspecies in different places: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subspecies_of_Canis_lupus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subspecies_of_Canis_lupus)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Inkling on February 21, 2017, 07:00:27 pm
I thought the plan was to not domesticate the same animals, to help make this a bit different from the actual world.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on February 22, 2017, 12:35:14 am
Well yeah this is gonna be cormorant/duck world.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 22, 2017, 07:54:27 am
Also a lot of the landmasses form rough "chains" such that it wouldn't be unheard of for an animal to fly or even swim their way to a location. Might take a lot of tries over several generations, but I imagine a few things could do it.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on February 22, 2017, 08:56:20 am
Yeah birds get a free pass. I just don't see a breeding population of wolves being able to swim across an ocean. All I'm saying is perhaps in cases where one type of animal is a non-flyer/swimmer and is present on two different continents seperated by an expanse of water it should be split into two or more different but related species.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 22, 2017, 09:08:12 am
Pangaia. Problem solved.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on February 22, 2017, 10:15:42 am
By the way I still intend to sketch some rules for the cavedork phase but I'm gonna be super busy this weekend running a dance festival so it'll have to wait a bit.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 22, 2017, 10:31:16 am
That's cool, long-term game.

Have fun at the dance! Break the competitions' legs!
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on February 22, 2017, 10:58:16 am
It's not a competition dance.

People who dance competitively are like people who masturbate competitively.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 22, 2017, 11:18:24 am
I need to know where these competitive masturbation contests are held in order to compete and win. Also for research.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: emmet on February 22, 2017, 11:52:38 am
I need to know where these competitive masturbation contests are held in order to compete and win. Also for research.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masturbate-a-thon
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 22, 2017, 12:10:38 pm
Oh I won those.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Flisch on February 22, 2017, 01:57:45 pm
I thought the plan was to not domesticate the same animals, to help make this a bit different from the actual world.
This is why I added a couple of alternatives. Cormorant, capybara, ratites, even iguanas. Not to mention the three alternative carnivores skunk, polecat and mongoose.

Also, the distributions also sometimes lead to interesting results. Just consider that horses are only available in the new world and the old world only has elephants and dromedaries in terms of mounts.

In the end, you don't need to change everything in order to create something new. Replacing only cats/dogs with something else or horses with camels would already lead to a sufficiently different feel, even if there are goats, sheep and oxen.

One thing I want to mention though is that some animals are harder to domesticate and yet some harder-to-domesticate animals have been domesticated in the real world while others have not, or at least not as much. Maybe some sort of "luck" factor should be involved when attempting domestication. For example, horses have been domesticated in asia. In north america, however, the remaining horses were hunted to extinction. Similarly, emus were never domesticated in australia while the aurochs was in europe, despite the aurochs being meaner and harder to tame than emus.

Edit:
One thing to consider: The invention of the (cart) wheel has been attributed to the presence of draft animals. The americas, for instance, which lacked domesticated bovines and equines never got to invent the wheel, because humans move weight more efficiently by carrying it, rather than pulling it. And llamas were used primarily by mountain societies, which hindered the usage of wheels. Same for the dromedary, which was mostly used in sandy areas. Carrying stuff on the animal's back was easier.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 22, 2017, 02:35:51 pm
Flisch come close to me with your knowledge.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Inkling on February 22, 2017, 04:26:25 pm
Okay but I'm still gonna domesticate otters and turtles.  And are we still doing near-prehistoric creatures?  I want moas.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 22, 2017, 04:39:34 pm
I want some moas, too.

What's a moas?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on February 22, 2017, 04:45:37 pm
Just to be clear, those awesome maps Flisch made are the state of animals at the END of the phase (Phase II) we are about to enter. Lot's of weird stuff happens between 200,000ya and when those maps become relevant. Just look at the modern distribution of animals like the Camelids (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d7/Camelid_Range.png) or the tapirs (http://tapirs.org/tapirs/tapir-range-maps/all_sp-poster_large.jpg). So, I wouldn't worry too much about how things will get where they will.

And yes, at the start of Phase III, anything that was alive during the Holocene or later should stay alive unless we kill them again. This article should be of some help in that regard: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction). At the very end of that article in the "See Also"section, there are some links to "recently extinct" lists that can also be helpful.

Edit: I will add though that species that went extinct due to reasons other than humans should still go extinct at their regular times (sorry Woolly Mammoth fans!).
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 22, 2017, 04:53:26 pm
Thank you for keeping us honest, Ovi.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Inkling on February 22, 2017, 06:04:21 pm
Moas are an old, old wooden ship.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Flisch on February 22, 2017, 06:37:25 pm
Okay but I'm still gonna domesticate otters and turtles.  And are we still doing near-prehistoric creatures?  I want moas.
I don't know how realistic you want to have this, but I tried to stick to animals that have a realistic chance of being domesticated.

I mean, if you want, you can give me a list with animals you want to have added. I was thinking of adding the bison for example. I don't think it's much harder to domesticate than the aurochs. I just wasn't even sure if you people would be using this, so I restricted myself to the more likely candidates.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Inkling on February 22, 2017, 06:45:52 pm
Starting island is roughly Indonesia, yeah?  I was looking at the stuff native to Indonesia.  There are turtles and otters, so I'm good.  As for how realistic we want to have this, that's a very good and running question for the game.

How would we be using the animal habitat map?  I thought it was examples of where certain species would be.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on February 22, 2017, 07:12:29 pm
Yes, it's where they will be by the time it's time to domesticate animals. But that's not until the phase after we are about the enter. Humans will first spread around the planet.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 22, 2017, 10:09:27 pm
THE MIASMA WILL SPREAD
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on February 23, 2017, 05:11:10 pm
I just realized that "miasma"is a homophone for "my asthma."

Thanks, brain.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on February 24, 2017, 12:23:02 am
My miasma!!! D:
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 24, 2017, 05:49:49 am
MSG'D!!
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 24, 2017, 06:03:31 am
By the way I still intend to sketch some rules for the cavedork phase but I'm gonna be super busy this weekend running a dance festival so it'll have to wait a bit.

Wanted to bring this back up. Anyone else want to get in on this? I know I wanna have an ear in the room, at least.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on February 24, 2017, 02:24:29 pm
I'll let you guys handle the game mechanics, but here is my brief idea for an outline.



Era of Prehistory

Age of Terraforming

The landforms and environment of the world are created.

Age of Proliferation

An age spanning from the dawn of the anatomically modern human to the beginning of settlement. Age lasts from 200,000 years ago until about 15,000 years ago. During this phase, players will be spreading humans across the planet while simultaneously developing various races, eventually coming to the point of the planets first settlements.

Age of Domestication

Spans the time from the beginning of settlements about 15,000 years ago until the development of writing (alternatively, the development of bronze working, as these things happened at about the same time) about 5,000 years ago. During this phase, players will be developing settlements, starting with isolated villages, domestication various animals and plants, and eventually leading to the beginnings of multi-city civilizations.



None of the names here are final and we can go into better detail once we nail down for sure what we want to do. We've just completed the "Age of Terraforming" and are about to enter the "Age of Proliferation." One thing to remember about the ages, they are defined by the most advanced people of the age. There will still be plenty of peoples that are technologically still within previous ages. Even to this day, we have peoples that are still in what I've called here the "Age of Proliferation." [see: Sentinelese (http://)]

Thoughts, everybody?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 24, 2017, 07:08:34 pm
I like it, it all looks good to me.

For the age of proliferation, since we're covering a span of 185,000 years, how do you want to break it up into chunks for gameplay purposes? 20,000 years? 10,000 years? Less? More?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Flisch on February 24, 2017, 07:19:42 pm
Update on the Livestock Maps (http://imgur.com/a/4oLOy)

Added:
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 24, 2017, 07:23:04 pm
I will domesticate the Rhea, whatever those are.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on February 24, 2017, 08:05:50 pm
They are large flightless birds that live in South America that are taking over Germany:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUULejtnBhY

That video was taken in Germany, by the way. Dinosaurs walk among us!
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 24, 2017, 08:08:14 pm
Germany looks like a hellscape... I can't believe we sent our troops there to liberate it from the Japanese.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Inkling on February 24, 2017, 08:50:16 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLZubB22edw

I completely forgot that rheas existed.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on February 25, 2017, 09:08:17 am
For those interested in learning more about the German rheas:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfGqZzAdzyM
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 25, 2017, 10:50:05 pm
I think I got all the things filled in. Got a version with lines and a version without lines.

(http://i.imgur.com/TgcNXws.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/hSQThDi.jpg)

When you find something I missed, screencap it and circle the mistake or something. I guess I can still do more work on those forests along the rivers.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 26, 2017, 09:02:54 am
Found a spot I missed on the large Mediterranean island. Fixed it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbI0cMyyw_M

Soon, guys. :)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Flisch on February 26, 2017, 09:48:56 am
Map's missing the lake that I labeled as Lake Baikal, but Ovi should know about the details.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on February 26, 2017, 09:52:03 am
Yeah, I'll send him the file once I finish my map. Should be a simple fix.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 26, 2017, 06:12:59 pm
Oh, yeah! Ovi and I are working with two separate files on two different projects. I'll merge them up again in a little while when we're each done.

So then, that's our opening to discuss rules and whatnot.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Inkling on February 26, 2017, 06:22:21 pm
So is our focus still going to be on that one island?  Do we spread people around the map in Proliferation then zoom back on that island for Domestication?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 26, 2017, 06:38:55 pm
I thought that for a time that our humans would be confined to that island until they figure out a way to get off of it.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on February 26, 2017, 06:41:58 pm
It took humans 100,000 years to make it out of Africa, for instance.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on February 26, 2017, 06:43:49 pm
And from a gameplay perspective, it'll give us some time to beta test the systems and tweak stuff before spreading out too far and making giant mistakes.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on February 27, 2017, 03:24:47 am
What I have in mind with the little system for spreading the hew-mons is that we don't need to set an arbitrary time to shift into the next phase. Turns will represent a certain length of time, and however many turns it takes for humans to develop enough population and technology to make settlements that's how long it takes. Humans in PDP:CW world might take a lot less time to build the first settlement, or a lot more.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on March 08, 2017, 07:03:50 pm
So, I've finished the region boundaries.

http://imgur.com/a/C22uQ (http://imgur.com/a/C22uQ)

There are 247 land regions (more than I anticipated, but I think it works). I'm not 100% set on the ocean regions, so feel free to open these up in Google Earth to see what they look like in there.

Speaking of which, I've completely revamps the Google Earth file to include all the things (and hopefully some of the layers will load a bit faster). I've named every land region using the Greek alphabet as the landmass names (I define each landmass as each area of contiguous continental shelves) from largest to smallest (see left side of image below), and then a number. Obviously as we play, these landmasses will get real names, but this should work for now.

(http://i.imgur.com/tfYftkE.png)

I haven't named any of the water regions yet as I wanted to get some input on how they look before I finalize them.

And, speaking of the Google Earth file, it's nearly ready, just need to get with Pat to combine our two versions of the GIMP file so I can get a biome layer in there.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on March 09, 2017, 12:39:24 am
Amazing! :U
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on March 09, 2017, 03:39:42 am
Digamma Troi was my favorite character on TNG.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Brandonazz on March 09, 2017, 12:11:49 pm
When I grow up, I want to be a wizard like Ovi.

Aw hell now they know I'm actually paying attention.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: emmet on March 09, 2017, 01:47:46 pm
i am also paying attention
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on March 10, 2017, 02:33:44 pm
I made some minor changes. Nothing big, but it satisfies my perfectionist itch.

(http://i.imgur.com/FwOjbsV.png)

Changelog:
  • Added Seychelles (To the island that was formerly the Canaries)
  • Subsequently moved the Canaries to an island on the atlantic coast of africa (which makes more sense anyway)
  • Added "Various polynesian islands" to the australasian sea. I'm too lazy to label every one of those. You can figure it out. :P I mean, the fauna and flora should be fairly homogenic anyway.
  • Added a little strip of Middle Europe to separate Iberia from Caucasus. This also means that Middle Europe now touches the mediterranean coast. Imagine those parts to equal Italy and Greece in terms of ecozone.

Looks like you guys have been busy. I am sad to see no Easter Island on the map. Otherwise it looks cool!
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on March 13, 2017, 12:59:49 pm
Well, there is a "various Polynesian islands" area. That being said, because of the rampant devastation of the biosphere there,  a lot about what we know about the island before humans arrived comes only from fossil evidence (and there really isn't a that much to make it special).
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Inkling on March 13, 2017, 02:24:47 pm
You can always have one of your tribes build statues until they starve to death!
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Brandonazz on March 14, 2017, 12:17:57 am
Too soon, Ink.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on March 14, 2017, 02:55:45 pm
Google Earth file: https://gofile.io/?c=p3PgQ2 (https://gofile.io/?c=p3PgQ2)

Have fun!
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on March 14, 2017, 03:03:05 pm
Looks amazing!
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Flisch on March 15, 2017, 02:20:27 pm
I also finished a thing:

http://imgur.com/a/zAM6a

Note that I often included the entire group, even if only some species were cultivated. This is because if you look at some of the wild forms it's easily imaginable that similar plants can be cultivated as well. Just look at wild maize.

Also, I purposefully left out cacao and coffee. Both are luxury goods more than anything and can be substituted easily. While the same could be said for cannabis and tobacco, they are a bit more specific that you'd have a hard time supplanting them with something else. Having that said, I mostly included them for kicks and giggles. :P
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on March 15, 2017, 03:18:09 pm
Looks fantastic! I love it!
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on March 23, 2017, 06:54:15 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/e6H4R9W.png)

How's this look? We work to each checkpoint.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on March 23, 2017, 08:16:00 pm
Maybe? Do we have a rule-set yet? However we do it, I think there should be an "Ice Age" event from approx 110,000 ya to ~12,000 ya (see: Last Glacial Period (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_glacial_period)). During this period there would be temporary landform changes like sea-level drops and advanced glaciation. I realize that that slightly crosses over into the next age, but that's okay because the areas with the most glaciation wouldn't have human settlements yet anyway.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on March 28, 2017, 03:07:09 am
Sorry guys still haven't got around to doing some proper rules for this (if you wait another couple of weeks I'll be done with all my asisgnments for the semester and can devote some time to it >_>).

I wouldn't set milestones by year. The rules for spreading dudes around will have a set level of cultural technology which triggers the next "age" and each turn will last a set amount of time, so the first city will be founded when people are advanced enough to found it, which may be sooner or later than it was historically on our world.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on March 28, 2017, 08:50:32 am
Cool, I can wait around for a bit.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on April 25, 2017, 05:08:46 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5eTKxwaEY8

[loading... ... ... 79%]
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on May 01, 2017, 07:26:18 pm
Been playing around with the map on Google Earth and I've come to the realization that aren't really places on the map for a Suez/Panama Canal situation. That being said, the age of sail should be more fun because of all the random subcontinents strewn all over the place.

Oh! Also we never got around to drawing in the ice caps! We should probably do that while we have some time waiting for rules to exist...
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on May 01, 2017, 07:32:17 pm
With all the talk of maps I was wondering when someone was gonna post here. :3
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on May 02, 2017, 03:09:24 am
I'm a week off being done with finals, so cool your heels sunshine.  ;)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on May 02, 2017, 12:06:07 pm
Well, here are some polar ice caps:

(http://i.imgur.com/qUOO1QW.png)

And thus the updated files:

GIMP (https://gofile.io/?c=zQM4yA)

KMZ (https://gofile.io/?c=KKGkUj)

Make sure you take a look at the polar ice cap in Google Earth and tell me how they look. Also still looking on input for the ocean regions.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on May 02, 2017, 01:06:07 pm
Haha... oh man, I never pictured the ice caps would be like that. Like, I never thought those landmasses would be connected in the South... this changes things, and I'm excited!

Also that tiny island on the right side of the map on the upper continent, we've somehow lost its biome data on the map. It has been done, we may just need to check layers.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on May 02, 2017, 02:14:07 pm
Can you point out which island you are referring to?

Nevermind found it, fixing it.

Edit: I've fixed it, but can we get some eyes going through and seeing if there are any other errors that need correcting before I reupload them again?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on May 02, 2017, 03:56:29 pm
Honestly I already did that... which was why I'm a little troubled that the island wasn't colored in. I spent hours combing through my versions of the maps to fix the pixels and stuff, and my copies seem to have everything marked. There may yet be a few missed spots though.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on May 02, 2017, 04:57:00 pm
Yeah, I'm honestly not sure how it happened. I haven't noticed any other spots yet, but the more eyes we have on it the better.

Edit: Split posts.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on May 02, 2017, 08:08:11 pm
Alright I did a complete pass on the entire map, figured I'd share my version to save us doing double work:

(http://i.imgur.com/DWDf97E.png)

I also added a blue line in the ice caps to represent the summer extents.

As for what to look for, look for this kind of stuff (inside the red circles): http://imgur.com/a/pDAue (http://imgur.com/a/pDAue)

First image is actual size, second is at 400% for clarity.

Last thing, this archipelago on the left has four separate biomes in it. Seemed rather odd, but I wanted to see what others though before I did anything with it, thoughts?

(http://i.imgur.com/OJnFLCH.png)
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on May 02, 2017, 08:25:02 pm
For the archipelago, that yellow dot can definitely go. I don't mind a more densely forested jungle on the island to the south. The portion that is monsoon forest could either be changed to match the majority of that landmass, or we can just assume it's a mushy foresty area. Changing it to be uniform is probably the better choice.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on May 02, 2017, 10:04:26 pm
How's this:

(http://i.imgur.com/C3R2xfy.png)

I based my decision after looking up the climate of St. Helena, the area that it's supposed to be analogous to in this map (it's located just to the west of the western most section of the largest continent, in the green area):

(http://i.imgur.com/FwOjbsV.png)

During research I found that Ascension Island is wetter than St. Helena, and they aren't terribly far apart (they are the ceneters for the top two circle in >this map< (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4e/Saint_Helena%2C_Ascension_and_Tristan_da_Cunha_on_the_Globe_%28in_the_United_Kingdom%29.svg/600px-Saint_Helena%2C_Ascension_and_Tristan_da_Cunha_on_the_Globe_%28in_the_United_Kingdom%29.svg.png)).

As such I think would should count that island chain as "St. Helena and Ascension" as far as ecozone equivalency is concerned.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on May 02, 2017, 10:42:59 pm
Oh cool, glad there is an actual real-world precedent for it. Yeah that sounds good to me.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Hydromancerx on May 03, 2017, 08:20:45 am
With that Ice Sheet in the south connecting the Canada/Alaska part to the Antarctica part thats going to have some very weird cross pollination of fauna. Such a Penguins with Polar Bears sort of deal.

I wonder how the penguins will even survive being connected to the mainland and also ice sheet. Seems like predators could come at eat them on land or even raid their ground nests.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on May 03, 2017, 08:31:38 am
Maybe, maybe not. It's also the south pole, so only a handful of creatures would be able to navigate the region. And those that could may not necessarily be suited for life on either of the two continents.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on May 03, 2017, 11:04:28 am
I'm not sure it's an issue we necessarily need to worry about. This game is focused human development through time, and not a biosphere simulator. While it would be nice to have every organism in a balanced ecosystem like here on Earth, the fact that our lithosphere is so different makes that nigh impossible. If the only inconsistency is that we have a slight mix of arctic/antarctic organisms, I say we're doing pretty good. And like Pat said, polar regions don't have a lot of diversity anyway.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: PatMan33 on May 03, 2017, 11:23:44 am
the fact that our lithosphere is so different makes that nigh impossible.

And that much more interesting!
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on May 03, 2017, 02:01:37 pm
And just think! You know how people always incorrectly think that polar bears and penguins live together? Where on our world they'd actually be right!
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Inkling on May 29, 2017, 11:17:28 am
So.... Are we going to do anything with this?
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on May 29, 2017, 02:16:38 pm
Still alive! Setting up a separate forum to help with organization: http://pcp4unme.freesmfhosting.com/index.php (http://pcp4unme.freesmfhosting.com/index.php)

It's actually the same forum from the last PCP, so if you were a member of that one, you don't even need to make a new account!
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Krakow Sam on May 29, 2017, 02:19:20 pm
Neat, thanks Ovi. :D

Edit: Oh wait, Pat is still involved. I'm not going to spend time on a project that some douchebag is just going to delete at the drop of a hat. Sorry.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on May 30, 2017, 02:58:51 pm
Still alive! Setting up a separate forum to help with organization: http://pcp4unme.freesmfhosting.com/index.php (http://pcp4unme.freesmfhosting.com/index.php)

It's actually the same forum from the last PCP, so if you were a member of that one, you don't even need to make a new account!

Fixed the URL, had an extra Z in there for some reason.

Neat, thanks Ovi. :D

Edit: Oh wait, Pat is still involved. I'm not going to spend time on a project that some douchebag is just going to delete at the drop of a hat. Sorry.

Well, no one is going to force you to play, but If you're only worried about data loss, I already had plans to archive everything (even before the purge).

Also, I know you had some ideas of how the game would be played, not sure how far you got with that, but if you really aren't continuing, any notes you had would probably be helpful.
Title: Re: Planetary Dawn Project: Construction of Worlds
Post by: Oviraptor on June 04, 2017, 09:40:18 am
So, mad a map thread on the other forum which I will use to house all the latest maps in one convenient location: http://pcp4unme.freesmfhosting.com/index.php/topic,37.0.html (http://pcp4unme.freesmfhosting.com/index.php/topic,37.0.html)